When will Nashville (BNA) get a non-stop flight to Europe?

Midwestindy · Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:46 pm

Lexy wrote:
The fact you think the business climate is better in IND and STL than BNA is laughable. Research and most media says you are wrong. Nashville is consistently in the top among corporate relocations, startups, and quality. If your two little cities were so special, you'd see more traffic at your airports. STL is only growing because of the mess that MDW is and IND...it's anyone's guess. Outside of a racetrack, there's no reason to go there. You want petty, I can happily bring it.

Neither city has managed to keep up with BNA as a metro.

Haha, Please don't make outrageous comments like that without evidence/stats to back up your claim

The person you are directing that towards has no ties to either city.... plus business climate is different from business traffic

STL-Montsanto, Inbev/Anheuser-Busch, Emerson Electric, Peabody Energy, e.t.c
IND- Rolls-Royce, Eli Lilly, Roche Diagnostics, Cummins, Dow Agro Sciences, Salesforce, e.t.c
BNA- you haven't provided any facts on large BNA companies traveling back and forth to Europe.

"Indy now welcomes 28 million visitors to Indy each year, with 11 percent arriving internationally."
https://www.internationalcenter.org/201 ... an-a-race/

Again, nothing against BNA, but most of these arguments are not based in stats and fact just opinion....

Cubsrule · Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:54 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Again, nothing against BNA, but most of these arguments are not based in stats and fact just opinion....

As are your arguments against BNA. Let's at least all play by the same rules.

Midwestindy · Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:01 am

ADrum23 wrote:
Not exactly. The Indianapolis metro area is only slightly bigger than the Nashville metro area, and Nashville will likely overtake Indianapolis within the next 10-15 years. The business climate in Nashville is more favorable than Indianapolis and even St. Louis (no state income tax, lower property tax burden, cost-of-living is cheaper, better weather, etc). Nashville is growing by 100 people a day, and businesses move here all the time (both big and small).

I am not disputing that STL and IND are deserving of TATL flights (they most definitely are and they should get them ASAP), but don't write off Nashville like that.

"The Indianapolis metro area is only slightly bigger than the Nashville metro area, and Nashville will likely overtake Indianapolis within the next 10-15 years." For the 40232132123th time population doesn't determine air traffic. Secondly, they weren't talking about business CLIMATE, they were talking about business TRAFFIC, huge difference... And we are talking about now not 10-15 years in future, when Nashville hypothetically passes St.Louis and Indianapolis.

US cities GDP(in millions):
21)St.Louis: 155,077
25)Indianapolis: 134,081
34)Nashville: 113,680
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U ... eas_by_GDP

"businesses move here all the time(both big and small.)" Then why can't any one who is praising Nashville, name all of these that have significant travel to europe....

Jshank83 · Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:22 am

I wish they would just lock these threads. This is up to over 100 comments and about 5 have any real discussion. A bunch of airports could probably support a flight if the right equipment was available on the right airline. Eventually most of these cities talked about will get a flight.

I get tired of these threads filled up with city bashing from people who know very little about the city they are bashing. We all love our own city and think it deserves certain flights. Maybe it does, but at the moment it doesn't for a reason. If people want to say why they think their city should have a flight then great, but don't go trashing other cities when it won't have any impact on what happens.

I am here to learn about aviation and how/why things are like they are. I don't need to read why x city is trash (when it really isn't).

ADrum23 · Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:29 am

Midwestindy wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
Not exactly. The Indianapolis metro area is only slightly bigger than the Nashville metro area, and Nashville will likely overtake Indianapolis within the next 10-15 years. The business climate in Nashville is more favorable than Indianapolis and even St. Louis (no state income tax, lower property tax burden, cost-of-living is cheaper, better weather, etc). Nashville is growing by 100 people a day, and businesses move here all the time (both big and small).

I am not disputing that STL and IND are deserving of TATL flights (they most definitely are and they should get them ASAP), but don't write off Nashville like that.

"The Indianapolis metro area is only slightly bigger than the Nashville metro area, and Nashville will likely overtake Indianapolis within the next 10-15 years." For the 40232132123th time population doesn't determine air traffic. Secondly, they weren't talking about business CLIMATE, they were talking about business TRAFFIC, huge difference... And we are talking about now not 10-15 years in future, when Nashville hypothetically passes St.Louis and Indianapolis.

US cities GDP(in millions):
21)St.Louis: 155,077
25)Indianapolis: 134,081
34)Nashville: 113,680
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U ... eas_by_GDP

"businesses move here all the time(both big and small.)" Then why can't any one who is praising Nashville, name all of these that have significant travel to europe....

1. Nissan, Bridgestone, AT&T, Amazon, Verizon, numerous entertainment (primarily music) companies and numerous healthcare companies (that have operations in Europe) have their headquarters or significant operations in the Nashville area that require global travel (which is why I also think BNA will be a prime candidate for a TPAC flight within 10 years).

2. Population does play a factor into air traffic as airlines will factor in how much local traffic will use the airport. The Indianapolis metro area is only slightly bigger than Nashville (1,988,817 for Indy vs 1,830,345 for Nashville) and Nashville is growing at a faster rate (added 36,435 residents between 2014-2015 vs 16,956 for Indy). Source: https://factfinder.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?src=bkmk

3. Tennessee is a more popular state to visit than Indiana http://www.businessinsider.com/the-most-popular-us-states-for-tourism-2014-10

4. The BNA-LGW flight from 1994-1995 had a high load factor, it just couldn't get sufficient traffic in First/Business Class. Now with many more businesses and a much larger population, that will change.

Again, don't get me wrong, I agree that Indianapolis is a prime candidate for TATL service, but Nashville is just as deserving. Both are great cities and have great people, businesses and tourist destinations.

ADrum23 · Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:32 am

ADrum23 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
Not exactly. The Indianapolis metro area is only slightly bigger than the Nashville metro area, and Nashville will likely overtake Indianapolis within the next 10-15 years. The business climate in Nashville is more favorable than Indianapolis and even St. Louis (no state income tax, lower property tax burden, cost-of-living is cheaper, better weather, etc). Nashville is growing by 100 people a day, and businesses move here all the time (both big and small).

I am not disputing that STL and IND are deserving of TATL flights (they most definitely are and they should get them ASAP), but don't write off Nashville like that.

"The Indianapolis metro area is only slightly bigger than the Nashville metro area, and Nashville will likely overtake Indianapolis within the next 10-15 years." For the 40232132123th time population doesn't determine air traffic. Secondly, they weren't talking about business CLIMATE, they were talking about business TRAFFIC, huge difference... And we are talking about now not 10-15 years in future, when Nashville hypothetically passes St.Louis and Indianapolis.

US cities GDP(in millions):
21)St.Louis: 155,077
25)Indianapolis: 134,081
34)Nashville: 113,680
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U ... eas_by_GDP

"businesses move here all the time(both big and small.)" Then why can't any one who is praising Nashville, name all of these that have significant travel to europe....

1. Nissan, Bridgestone, AT&T, Amazon, Verizon, numerous entertainment (primarily music) companies and numerous healthcare companies (that have operations in Europe) have their headquarters or significant operations in the Nashville area that require global travel (which is why I also think BNA will be a prime candidate for a TPAC flight within 10 years).

2. Population does play a factor into air traffic as airlines will factor in how much local traffic will use the airport. The Indianapolis metro area is only slightly bigger than Nashville (1,988,817 for Indy vs 1,830,345 for Nashville) and Nashville is growing at a faster rate (added 36,435 residents between 2014-2015 vs 16,956 for Indy). Source: https://factfinder.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?src=bkmk

3. Tennessee is a more popular state to visit than Indiana http://www.businessinsider.com/the-most-popular-us-states-for-tourism-2014-10

4. The BNA-LGW flight from 1994-1995 had a high load factor, it just couldn't get sufficient traffic in First/Business Class. Now with many more businesses and a much larger population, that will change.

Again, don't get me wrong, I agree that Indianapolis is a prime candidate for TATL service, but Nashville is just as deserving. Both are great cities and have great people, businesses and tourist destinations.

Cunard · Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:52 am

kingcavalier wrote:
I'm not sure where BA would find ticket counter space at BNA. I guess they could share AA's counter and gate but this will not be an issue once the airport expansion a.k.a. BNA Vision happens in the next few years.

Ticket counter space would be the least of British Airways worries IF they were EVER to announce BNA as the airline would more than likely use the American Airlines ticket desk with a sign depicting British Airways along with the gate area.

globalcabotage · Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:14 am

Midwestindy wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
Not exactly. The Indianapolis metro area is only slightly bigger than the Nashville metro area, and Nashville will likely overtake Indianapolis within the next 10-15 years. The business climate in Nashville is more favorable than Indianapolis and even St. Louis (no state income tax, lower property tax burden, cost-of-living is cheaper, better weather, etc). Nashville is growing by 100 people a day, and businesses move here all the time (both big and small).

I am not disputing that STL and IND are deserving of TATL flights (they most definitely are and they should get them ASAP), but don't write off Nashville like that.

"The Indianapolis metro area is only slightly bigger than the Nashville metro area, and Nashville will likely overtake Indianapolis within the next 10-15 years." For the 40232132123th time population doesn't determine air traffic. Secondly, they weren't talking about business CLIMATE, they were talking about business TRAFFIC, huge difference... And we are talking about now not 10-15 years in future, when Nashville hypothetically passes St.Louis and Indianapolis.

US cities GDP(in millions):
21)St.Louis: 155,077
25)Indianapolis: 134,081
34)Nashville: 113,680
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U ... eas_by_GDP

"businesses move here all the time(both big and small.)" Then why can't any one who is praising Nashville, name all of these that have significant travel to europe....

STL is 155 million! Not sure why this puts ATL, DFW, IAH, LAX, NYC, ORD, SFO to shame

CHA5Departure · Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:28 am

ADrum23 wrote:
CHA5Departure wrote:
In regard to the music industry in Nashville, it is not just a country music town anymore. There is a lot of pop/rock recording and production going on in Nashville. Most, if not all, of the major recording labels have more than just a passing presence in the city. There is plenty enough music business in BNA to generate some traffic to Europe, but maybe not totally support the service.

As a consumer living in Chattanooga, TN (located about halfway between ATL and BNA) with close family in Germany, I would love to see a LCC start service in either ATL or BNA. Sure, I have tons of TATL options in ATL, but it is all legacy service and the fares are much higher than what an LCC would bring to the table.

If Condor started seasonal service to Frankfurt (like MSY), would that be sufficient?

I think that would be a great alternative.

slcdeltarumd11 · Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:33 am

This has sadly degraded into the usual middle cities fighting each other why they deserve non-stop service to Europe. I will make this easy and resolve this for ALL of you. None of your cities have enough premium demand for legacy carriers so no BA, no AA, no DL. You will probably all get service in the next 5 years but it will be by a LCC and LESS then daily. None of the cities mentioned are getting a premium LHR slot. The less then daily will be to KEF, LGW, DUB, FRA or CDG. Thank You and Good night

ADrum23 · Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:25 am

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
This has sadly degraded into the usual middle cities fighting each other why they deserve non-stop service to Europe. I will make this easy and resolve this for ALL of you. None of your cities have enough premium demand for legacy carriers so no BA, no AA, no DL. You will probably all get service in the next 5 years but it will be by a LCC and LESS then daily. None of the cities mentioned are getting a premium LHR slot. The less then daily will be to KEF, LGW, DUB, FRA or CDG. Thank You and Good night

Not exactly. If MSY can support premium traffic on a legacy carrier (BA in this case), than BNA, STL and IND can as well. All three of those cities have far better cases than MSY for direct European service.

Guess · Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:01 am

ADrum23 wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
This has sadly degraded into the usual middle cities fighting each other why they deserve non-stop service to Europe. I will make this easy and resolve this for ALL of you. None of your cities have enough premium demand for legacy carriers so no BA, no AA, no DL. You will probably all get service in the next 5 years but it will be by a LCC and LESS then daily. None of the cities mentioned are getting a premium LHR slot. The less then daily will be to KEF, LGW, DUB, FRA or CDG. Thank You and Good night

Not exactly. If MSY can support premium traffic on a legacy carrier (BA in this case), than BNA, STL and IND can as well. All three of those cities have far better cases than MSY for direct European service.

No they don't, and I Don't exactly want to rehash this when it comes to MSY, but they did have more traffic and higher yields to Europe than anyone currently mentioned, so yes there is a reason they have launched multiple Europe flights recently.

HeyHey · Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:43 am

I don't know when BNA will get TATL or TPAC air service. I do know that there is a TON of misinformation passed on what exactly exactly the economy is based on what the music industry is all about. People also tend to underestimate significantly the impact tourism has on Nashville as a region.

1. Tourism will play a roll in any discussion. Obviously there's tourism to Europe that will likely be very similar between BNA, CMH, CLE, or IND because it is based on population. A household in BNA is pretty similar to a household in CMH, CLE, or IND, and I am going to assume that total tourism to Europe will be fairly similar because the metro populations are all very similar at this point.

European travel to BNA/IND/CMH/CLE does happen, although it is less than the other way. I don't have any data specifically on European travel to BNA. Anecdotally, I know that there are at large weekly tours from London that hit Nashville, Memphis, and New Orleans which focus on the music industry. I also know that Nashville is currently supporting 3 or 4x service to YYC that is primarily based on tourism to Nashville.

For some actual data on tourism numbers, please refer to post #160 in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1365239&p=19598405#p19598405 in which I provide some actual numbers to the tourism and hospitality industry in Nashville and the peer cities. To summarize those numbers, Nashville has a larger significantly larger hospitality industry as measured by total hotel rooms than CMH, IND, or CLE (on the order of 50-75% larger than any of those cities). It also has a larger hospitality industry than STL despite STL having a larger economy and substantially more total population. Finally, because MSY has been mentioned repeatedly in this thread as a city that thrives on tourism, I did look up total hotel counts for the New Orleans MSA for this post. New Orleans had ~39,000 hotel rooms in the MSA in 2016 compared to Nashville's 41-42,000 in 2017. Source for New Orleans numbers: http://www.neworleanscvb.com/visit/faq/ and http://www.nola.com/business/index.ssf/ ... _boom.html In short, Nashville's tourism and hospitality industry is very similar to New Orleans which people have been using to justify MSY's BA service. If it works for MSY then one would also think it would work for BNA.

2. Business travel will play the largest role in traffic from any of these cities to Europe. I do not have any firm numbers to compare the amount of business travel from any of the aforementioned cities to London or Paris or Frankfurt. People in this thread have asked for specific examples of companies that travel to Europe from Nashville. I would point people to HCA (the world's largest owner of hospitals) which has several facilities in the UK, UBS (its NA shared services HQ is in Nashville as of two years ago), Schneider Electric, the auto industry (Bridgestone NA HQ, Nissan NA HQ and mega assembly plant, GM assembly plant and suppliers) with its numerous European based suppliers which have outposts in Nashville, and the music industry. I would also point to the healthcare industry just based on its scale. Somewhere around 8-10% of all US hospitals are owned by corporations in Nashville which has led to a healthcare administration, financing, and innovation hub being here. There are around 400 healthcare corporations based in Nashville, 18 of which are publicly traded. Some of those companies own hospitals in Europe, and there are undoubtedly interconnections in the world of corporate finance and health IT with Europe. Nashville currently has six Fortune 500 companies based here and will have seven (possibly eight) once 2017 numbers are calculated. Fortune 500 companies by their very nature have broad travel requirements nationally and internationally. I don't know how to quantify how many European manufacturers are traveling to Nashville to pitch their products to Dollar General or Tractor Supply or many investment funds from Germany are traveling to Nashville to strike up business relationships with HCA or CHS, but those trip happen with regularity for Fortune 500 companies.

3. The music Industry is largely misunderstood by most on this board. Everyone points to Nashville being the country music capital of the US. While that is true, the dominance of the country music industry in Nashville lets people forget about the other aspects of the Music Industry that do touch Europe to a larger degree. Country music is a massive industry all by itself and is what allows a critical mass of musicians and infrastructure to be based in Nashville. Those same musicians and infrastructure (the recording studios, record labels, intellectual property attorneys, music marketing businesses, music tour businesses, etc., etc., etc.) is what has drawn a multitude of other music genres to Nashville. If you're a rock band in Europe and need to record in the US or tour in the US, then you will do so in either LA, NYC, or Nashville. Already, vast majorities of country, contemporary Christian, and Americana music are written, recorded, and promoted out of Nashville, and a good chunk of alternative rock is based out of Nashville. The alternative rock empires and progeny of Jack White/Third Man Records, the Black Keys, and Kings of Leon are all Nashville based in addition to several popular but less well-known bands. There are definitely synergies between the music industry and the overall entertainment industry that have also been expanded upon. I've seen it discussed on here how surprising it is that a market the size of Nashville (~2 million people) can support the number of nonstop flights to LA, but when you see the connections between LA and Nashville with the number of celebrities who live here now as well as television production, music production, and marketing then it becomes more obvious. Those same types of connections with Europe are too numerous and granular to identify individually, but they are there.

I do think Nashville punches above its weight because of the rapidity of growth that it has as well as the entertainment and tourism sectors that drive a lot of air travel. How much it punches above its weight remains to be seen, but given the hints and construction ongoing at the airport I suspect we will see TATL soon. I strongly suspect that BNA already has an airline that has agreed in principle to provide service to Europe based on the rapid proposal and approval of capital funds going to an international arrivals area that is now under construction.

parapente · Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:27 am

Not being American I have no axe to grind about any middle sized city.But as stated above this is an aviation forum.So the question (for me at least) is -are ( or have) the economics of commercial flying changing to a point where the 'old rules' no longer apply?

The A321NEO LR is potentially a game changer in this respect.(whether it can do Nashville London I have no idea - guess it's close).
But think about it.Take a super economical aircraft like the A321,the CEO had fantastic and modern engines anyway.Then halve - yes halve the price of fuel (more actually at $48).Then add blended winglets and take off another 4%.Then add revolutionary new engines and another 16% reduction.Imho the maths has changed big time.This type of flight can now be considered and not rely totally on biz %ages.

The a/c can hardly be called expensive to purchase or the staffing.Say you fly it into Gatwick (why not?) no super expensive landing charges.And if you want to go on to Europe you are spoilt for choice with Ryan and Easy.

Putting my head on the block I might suggest that if BA don't do it then the danger is that somebody else will and the USA is 'their' continent.

Of course the above is what the 797 is all about.But that's a decade away.

VolvoBus · Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:18 am

Can somebody explain where this traffic to 'Europe' is going ? How many threads talk about flights to Florida or California rather than individual cities ?

What does a BNA - LHR (seems to be favourite) flight bring to the table?
Great if you want London , or Euro cities without direct TA links. Another option if you want Paris,Amsterdam Frankfurt etc.

Also,does a direct flight provide enough extra working time at either end to be able to charge a premium over a one-stopper, thus affecting yields ?

ERJ170 · Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:30 am

Let's end it all here by saying that if BNA wants to pay for it, it will come. If it doesn't, we will see these threads from here to eternity. That's all there is to it. International flight from non--hubs now have to pay for service. Period. No ifs ands or buts. Next topic!

Midwestindy · Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:38 am

ADrum23 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
Not exactly. The Indianapolis metro area is only slightly bigger than the Nashville metro area, and Nashville will likely overtake Indianapolis within the next 10-15 years. The business climate in Nashville is more favorable than Indianapolis and even St. Louis (no state income tax, lower property tax burden, cost-of-living is cheaper, better weather, etc). Nashville is growing by 100 people a day, and businesses move here all the time (both big and small).

I am not disputing that STL and IND are deserving of TATL flights (they most definitely are and they should get them ASAP), but don't write off Nashville like that.

"The Indianapolis metro area is only slightly bigger than the Nashville metro area, and Nashville will likely overtake Indianapolis within the next 10-15 years." For the 40232132123th time population doesn't determine air traffic. Secondly, they weren't talking about business CLIMATE, they were talking about business TRAFFIC, huge difference... And we are talking about now not 10-15 years in future, when Nashville hypothetically passes St.Louis and Indianapolis.

US cities GDP(in millions):
21)St.Louis: 155,077
25)Indianapolis: 134,081
34)Nashville: 113,680
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U ... eas_by_GDP

"businesses move here all the time(both big and small.)" Then why can't any one who is praising Nashville, name all of these that have significant travel to europe....

1. Nissan, Bridgestone, AT&T, Amazon, Verizon, numerous entertainment (primarily music) companies and numerous healthcare companies (that have operations in Europe) have their headquarters or significant operations in the Nashville area that require global travel (which is why I also think BNA will be a prime candidate for a TPAC flight within 10 years).

2. Population does play a factor into air traffic as airlines will factor in how much local traffic will use the airport. The Indianapolis metro area is only slightly bigger than Nashville (1,988,817 for Indy vs 1,830,345 for Nashville) and Nashville is growing at a faster rate (added 36,435 residents between 2014-2015 vs 16,956 for Indy). Source: https://factfinder.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?src=bkmk

3. Tennessee is a more popular state to visit than Indiana http://www.businessinsider.com/the-most-popular-us-states-for-tourism-2014-10

4. The BNA-LGW flight from 1994-1995 had a high load factor, it just couldn't get sufficient traffic in First/Business Class. Now with many more businesses and a much larger population, that will change.

Again, don't get me wrong, I agree that Indianapolis is a prime candidate for TATL service, but Nashville is just as deserving. Both are great cities and have great people, businesses and tourist destinations.

In all seriousness, I'm glad we are finally getting reasonable responses.

However, I disagree on a few things, Tennessee isn't just Nashville, it is also Memphis and the Smokey Mountains. Population only accounts for a small portion of air travel, just ask cities like Berlin and Fayetteville, Arkansas. Those companies you mentioned don't have as strong of ties to Europe, as the companies in STL and IND do. Amazon and AT&T have the same size presence in IND as they do in BNA, and Bridgestone and Nissan send more people to Asia, then Europe.

Cubsrule · Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:45 am

Guess wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
This has sadly degraded into the usual middle cities fighting each other why they deserve non-stop service to Europe. I will make this easy and resolve this for ALL of you. None of your cities have enough premium demand for legacy carriers so no BA, no AA, no DL. You will probably all get service in the next 5 years but it will be by a LCC and LESS then daily. None of the cities mentioned are getting a premium LHR slot. The less then daily will be to KEF, LGW, DUB, FRA or CDG. Thank You and Good night

Not exactly. If MSY can support premium traffic on a legacy carrier (BA in this case), than BNA, STL and IND can as well. All three of those cities have far better cases than MSY for direct European service.

No they don't, and I Don't exactly want to rehash this when it comes to MSY, but they did have more traffic and higher yields to Europe than anyone currently mentioned, so yes there is a reason they have launched multiple Europe flights recently.

MSY was bigger but not much bigger. I'm not sure why we would assume that the "LHR line" or the "Condor cutoff" is between MSY and the cities discussed here.

Midwestindy · Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:50 am

Cubsrule wrote:
Guess wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:

Not exactly. If MSY can support premium traffic on a legacy carrier (BA in this case), than BNA, STL and IND can as well. All three of those cities have far better cases than MSY for direct European service.

No they don't, and I Don't exactly want to rehash this when it comes to MSY, but they did have more traffic and higher yields to Europe than anyone currently mentioned, so yes there is a reason they have launched multiple Europe flights recently.

MSY was bigger but not much bigger. I'm not sure why we would assume that the "LHR line" or the "Condor cutoff" is between MSY and the cities discussed here.

2013-Total passengers to Europe:
MSY- 202,610
BNA-132,487
Average one-way fare to Europe:
MSY-$932
BNA-$750
https://scontent-lax3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/ ... e=599DD953

pretty large difference, considering the MSY market has since been stimulized by BA and DE...

Cubsrule · Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:03 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
Guess wrote:

No they don't, and I Don't exactly want to rehash this when it comes to MSY, but they did have more traffic and higher yields to Europe than anyone currently mentioned, so yes there is a reason they have launched multiple Europe flights recently.

MSY was bigger but not much bigger. I'm not sure why we would assume that the "LHR line" or the "Condor cutoff" is between MSY and the cities discussed here.

2013-Total passengers to Europe:
MSY- 202,610
BNA-132,487
Average one-way fare to Europe:
MSY-$932
BNA-$750
https://scontent-lax3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/ ... e=599DD953

pretty large difference, considering the MSY market has since been stimulized by BA and DE...

The point is larger than just Nashville. In 2013 STL was only about 10 percent smaller and actually had better yields. MSY's location hurts its yields relative to fare because it is the longest of these markets.

Midwestindy · Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:19 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

MSY was bigger but not much bigger. I'm not sure why we would assume that the "LHR line" or the "Condor cutoff" is between MSY and the cities discussed here.

2013-Total passengers to Europe:
MSY- 202,610
BNA-132,487
Average one-way fare to Europe:
MSY-$932
BNA-$750
https://scontent-lax3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/ ... e=599DD953

pretty large difference, considering the MSY market has since been stimulized by BA and DE...

The point is larger than just Nashville. In 2013 STL was only about 10 percent smaller and actually had better yields. MSY's location hurts its yields relative to fare because it is the longest of these markets.

"The point is larger than just Nashville."Sorry you lost me there....Can you explain what you mean?

Another point is that out of MCI, BNA, STL, and CMH, BNA was the lowest yielding, had the second lowest one-way fare, and had the third fewest European and London passengers.

RobertS975 · Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:32 pm

Getting a LCC flight to wherever is not really what Nashville residents need, nor is it likely to bring financial success to the carrier. Far better solution would be a route to a useful connection hub like a DL flight to AMS. That would open essentially all of Europe, the Middle East, Africa and Asia and make much of the world just a single connection away.

MalevTU134 · Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:45 pm

RobertS975 wrote:
Getting a LCC flight to wherever is not really what Nashville residents need, nor is it likely to bring financial success to the carrier. Far better solution would be a route to a useful connection hub like a DL flight to AMS. That would open essentially all of Europe, the Middle East, Africa and Asia and make much of the world just a single connection away.

Doesn't the good people of Nashville already have exactly that through ATL, ORD, DTW, EWR, IAD, PHL et cetera?

commavia · Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:49 pm

BNA continues to strike me as an obvious BA 788 route, and I personally think BNA-LHR is matter of when, not if.

Cubsrule · Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:28 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

2013-Total passengers to Europe:
MSY- 202,610
BNA-132,487
Average one-way fare to Europe:
MSY-$932
BNA-$750
https://scontent-lax3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/ ... e=599DD953

pretty large difference, considering the MSY market has since been stimulized by BA and DE...

The point is larger than just Nashville. In 2013 STL was only about 10 percent smaller and actually had better yields. MSY's location hurts its yields relative to fare because it is the longest of these markets.

"The point is larger than just Nashville."Sorry you lost me there....Can you explain what you mean?

Yes. It's basically a continuum with MSY on top and the others trailing, but the gaps between the individual cities are not all that large.

DfwAussie · Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:37 pm

commavia wrote:
BNA continues to strike me as an obvious BA 788 route, and I personally think BNA-LHR is matter of when, not if.

I spend 1/2 my time in Nashville, 1/2 in Dallas. My company does a rather good bit of business in the UK. The Nashville contingent is screaming for this flight. It'll happen, likely when the FIS is in usable condition next year. We also want Tokyo, but that's for now more of a pipe dream. IMO, it'll come to pass eventually, probably not daily to start.

Aesma · Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:35 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Aren't there some numbers for people flying between BNA and cities in Europe so we can see what the potential demand is ?

2013 is closest info we have and it doesn't include IND or CLE
London
1.STL
2.HNL
3.BNA
4.MCI

https://scontent-lax3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/ ... e=599DD953

So 71 passengers/day for BNA-London.

georgiabill · Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:51 pm

Wondering if STL-BRU makes sense on SN because of the Inbev Bud acquisition?

DfwAussie · Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:41 pm

georgiabill wrote:
Wondering if STL-BRU makes sense on SN because of the Inbev Bud acquisition?

One single corporation isn't going to cause an airline to begin service. All these cities in this thread, sooner or later will get their TATL services. Some may be BA, others DY, maybe DE. FI and WW would be in the mix as well.

777PHX · Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:35 pm

Lexy wrote:
The fact you think the business climate is better in IND and STL than BNA is laughable. Research and most media says you are wrong. Nashville is consistently in the top among corporate relocations, startups, and quality. If your two little cities were so special, you'd see more traffic at your airports. STL is only growing because of the mess that MDW is and IND...it's anyone's guess. Outside of a racetrack, there's no reason to go there. You want petty, I can happily bring it.

Neither city has managed to keep up with BNA as a metro.

Try arguing with facts instead of your opinion, darling, it'll make you sound a bit more intelligent....

City GDPs:

St. Louis: $150 billion
Indy: $134 billion
Nashville: $113 billion

F500 company HQs:

St. Louis: 8(#9 is somewhat debatable with Monsanto, purchased by a Dutch company last year)
Nashville: 6
Indy: 4

And I'll throw in MSA populations as well....

STL - 2.8M
Indy - 2.0M
Nashville - 1.8M

777PHX · Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:39 pm

georgiabill wrote:
Wondering if STL-BRU makes sense on SN because of the Inbev Bud acquisition?

No. The North American Inbev execs all operate out of NYC for exactly this reason - it's too damn hard to get to STL. Inbev may technically be a Belgian company, but it's run by a bunch of Brazilian bankers. If you were going to use this line of logic, you'd be looking at a flight to Brazil.

DfwAussie · Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:15 pm

777PHX wrote:
Lexy wrote:
The fact you think the business climate is better in IND and STL than BNA is laughable. Research and most media says you are wrong. Nashville is consistently in the top among corporate relocations, startups, and quality. If your two little cities were so special, you'd see more traffic at your airports. STL is only growing because of the mess that MDW is and IND...it's anyone's guess. Outside of a racetrack, there's no reason to go there. You want petty, I can happily bring it.

Neither city has managed to keep up with BNA as a metro.

Try arguing with facts instead of your opinion, darling, it'll make you sound a bit more intelligent....

City GDPs:

St. Louis: $150 billion
Indy: $134 billion
Nashville: $113 billion

F500 company HQs:

St. Louis: 8(#9 is somewhat debatable with Monsanto, purchased by a Dutch company last year)
Nashville: 6
Indy: 4

And I'll throw in MSA populations as well....

STL - 2.8M
Indy - 2.0M
Nashville - 1.8M

Curious, for what year are these statistics?

Midwestindy · Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:30 pm

DfwAussie wrote:
777PHX wrote:
Lexy wrote:
The fact you think the business climate is better in IND and STL than BNA is laughable. Research and most media says you are wrong. Nashville is consistently in the top among corporate relocations, startups, and quality. If your two little cities were so special, you'd see more traffic at your airports. STL is only growing because of the mess that MDW is and IND...it's anyone's guess. Outside of a racetrack, there's no reason to go there. You want petty, I can happily bring it.

Neither city has managed to keep up with BNA as a metro.

Try arguing with facts instead of your opinion, darling, it'll make you sound a bit more intelligent....

City GDPs:

St. Louis: $150 billion
Indy: $134 billion
Nashville: $113 billion

F500 company HQs:

St. Louis: 8(#9 is somewhat debatable with Monsanto, purchased by a Dutch company last year)
Nashville: 6
Indy: 4

And I'll throw in MSA populations as well....

STL - 2.8M
Indy - 2.0M
Nashville - 1.8M

Curious, for what year are these statistics?

2016---GDP https://www.statista.com/statistics/183 ... tro-areas/
2016---Metro population https://www.thoughtco.com/largest-metro ... as-1435135, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_M ... ical_Areas

IND has five fortune 500 companies, Cummins is in the IND CSA.

jbs2886 · Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:36 pm

Guess wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
This has sadly degraded into the usual middle cities fighting each other why they deserve non-stop service to Europe. I will make this easy and resolve this for ALL of you. None of your cities have enough premium demand for legacy carriers so no BA, no AA, no DL. You will probably all get service in the next 5 years but it will be by a LCC and LESS then daily. None of the cities mentioned are getting a premium LHR slot. The less then daily will be to KEF, LGW, DUB, FRA or CDG. Thank You and Good night

Not exactly. If MSY can support premium traffic on a legacy carrier (BA in this case), than BNA, STL and IND can as well. All three of those cities have far better cases than MSY for direct European service.

No they don't, and I Don't exactly want to rehash this when it comes to MSY, but they did have more traffic and higher yields to Europe than anyone currently mentioned, so yes there is a reason they have launched multiple Europe flights recently.

BNA fans as well as STL and IND to some extent have a HUGE issue with MSY getting European service first, much less on two different airlines. MSY doesn't deserve it and the airlines are stupid. :roll:

Of course, if you look at some preliminary information from BA and Condor, J demand is high and BA already increased from 4x to 5x weekly. So clearly they both made bad decisions going to MSY before BNA.

Midwestindy · Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:03 am

jbs2886 wrote:
BNA fans as well as STL and IND to some extent have a HUGE issue with MSY getting European service first, much less on two different airlines. MSY doesn't deserve it and the airlines are stupid.

Of course, if you look at some preliminary information from BA and Condor, J demand is high and BA already increased from 4x to 5x weekly. So clearly they both made bad decisions going to MSY before BNA.

Most don't, and its pretty easy to see why...MSY is significantly higher yielding than BNA, MSY's one-way fares to Europe were almost $200 and carried 35% more passengers to europe than BNA. STL is only slightly higher yielding than MSY but carried fewer passengers than MSY. IND? who knows, there aren't accurate numbers. MSY deserved it....maybe even more than AUS did.

DfwAussie · Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:32 am

Midwestindy wrote:
DfwAussie wrote:
777PHX wrote:

Try arguing with facts instead of your opinion, darling, it'll make you sound a bit more intelligent....

City GDPs:

St. Louis: $150 billion
Indy: $134 billion
Nashville: $113 billion

F500 company HQs:

St. Louis: 8(#9 is somewhat debatable with Monsanto, purchased by a Dutch company last year)
Nashville: 6
Indy: 4

And I'll throw in MSA populations as well....

STL - 2.8M
Indy - 2.0M
Nashville - 1.8M

Curious, for what year are these statistics?

2016---GDP https://www.statista.com/statistics/183 ... tro-areas/
2016---Metro population https://www.thoughtco.com/largest-metro ... as-1435135, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_M ... ical_Areas

IND has five fortune 500 companies, Cummins is in the IND CSA.

Metro Nashville has 6. Not really an overwhelmingly compelling argument for either side, since it lists American companies. It's obvious this thread is running it's course and has turned into a "my city can beat up your city" pissing contest. Ya'll have fun with the argument. I'm going to go read all the trolls on Facebook who think we have a secret colony on Mars creating mutant humans (yes its a real topic). Oh..and Midwwest Indy dude, insulting people here kinda show you should be the one on Facebook than here.

777PHX · Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:45 am

jbs2886 wrote:
Guess wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:

Not exactly. If MSY can support premium traffic on a legacy carrier (BA in this case), than BNA, STL and IND can as well. All three of those cities have far better cases than MSY for direct European service.

No they don't, and I Don't exactly want to rehash this when it comes to MSY, but they did have more traffic and higher yields to Europe than anyone currently mentioned, so yes there is a reason they have launched multiple Europe flights recently.

BNA fans as well as STL and IND to some extent have a HUGE issue with MSY getting European service first, much less on two different airlines. MSY doesn't deserve it and the airlines are stupid.

Of course, if you look at some preliminary information from BA and Condor, J demand is high and BA already increased from 4x to 5x weekly. So clearly they both made bad decisions going to MSY before BNA.

I'll count myself as an STL fan even though I live in PHX, and I have no problem acknowledging that Nawlins has a tourism component that STL, IND, and BNA could only wish for. They deserved the BA fight they got.

777PHX · Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:51 am

DfwAussie wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
DfwAussie wrote:

Curious, for what year are these statistics?

2016---GDP https://www.statista.com/statistics/183 ... tro-areas/
2016---Metro population https://www.thoughtco.com/largest-metro ... as-1435135, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_M ... ical_Areas

IND has five fortune 500 companies, Cummins is in the IND CSA.

Metro Nashville has 6. Not really an overwhelmingly compelling argument for either side, since it lists American companies. It's obvious this thread is running it's course and has turned into a "my city can beat up your city" pissing contest. Ya'll have fun with the argument. I'm going to go read all the trolls on Facebook who think we have a secret colony on Mars creating mutant humans (yes its a real topic). Oh..and Midwwest Indy dude, insulting people here kinda show you should be the one on Facebook than here.

Not sure he deserves that.

I'm not going to speak for him, but my point was that Nashville isnt this golden goose that shits golden bricks that certain personalities here think it is. There's at least a couple cities in the same region of the country that make a statistically compelling argument for service ahead of BNA..

RobertS975 · Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:38 am

MalevTU134 wrote:
RobertS975 wrote:
Getting a LCC flight to wherever is not really what Nashville residents need, nor is it likely to bring financial success to the carrier. Far better solution would be a route to a useful connection hub like a DL flight to AMS. That would open essentially all of Europe, the Middle East, Africa and Asia and make much of the world just a single connection away.

Doesn't the good people of Nashville already have exactly that through ATL, ORD, DTW, EWR, IAD, PHL et cetera?

Absolutely, except a direct flight to a European hub would eliminate an extra connection. You would be able to get to secondary European markets via a major Euro hub, places not directly served from the major US hubs.

MalevTU134 · Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:56 am

RobertS975 wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
RobertS975 wrote:
Getting a LCC flight to wherever is not really what Nashville residents need, nor is it likely to bring financial success to the carrier. Far better solution would be a route to a useful connection hub like a DL flight to AMS. That would open essentially all of Europe, the Middle East, Africa and Asia and make much of the world just a single connection away.

Doesn't the good people of Nashville already have exactly that through ATL, ORD, DTW, EWR, IAD, PHL et cetera?

Absolutely, except a direct flight to a European hub would eliminate an extra connection. You would be able to get to secondary European markets via a major Euro hub, places not directly served from the major US hubs.

Ok, let's see... Suppose we take AMS for example as you suggested. Which secondary markets in Europe could you not reach with one single stop at ATL, EWR, JFK, ORD, DTW etc, but with a AMS flight you could? Places like SOF, DBV, MLA, CTA, BIO? Honestly, how many passengers fly from BNA to these secondary markets? And at what yields? It is easy to dream up "cool" connections, so long as you are not the one who has to pay the losses they incur.

Jshank83 · Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:10 am

RobertS975 wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
RobertS975 wrote:
Getting a LCC flight to wherever is not really what Nashville residents need, nor is it likely to bring financial success to the carrier. Far better solution would be a route to a useful connection hub like a DL flight to AMS. That would open essentially all of Europe, the Middle East, Africa and Asia and make much of the world just a single connection away.

Doesn't the good people of Nashville already have exactly that through ATL, ORD, DTW, EWR, IAD, PHL et cetera?

Absolutely, except a direct flight to a European hub would eliminate an extra connection. You would be able to get to secondary European markets via a major Euro hub, places not directly served from the major US hubs.

This is the reason I don't want WOW. That doesn't help my connections any. My finance's company is headquartered in southern France. Getting BA to LHR or DL/Air France to CVG knocks a connection off. Her company does fly everyone Business class which helps but taking a connection off would be great. I want something that knocks connections from 2 to 1 to smaller European destinations as much as I want the nonstop to LHR/CVG/etc.

SATexan · Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:10 am

Since this topic is brought up every other day, let me chime in my thoughts:

I will restrict this discussion to BA simply because LON is the # 1 market to Europe from Nashville and also that the # 2 and # 3 markets to Europe out of BNA (FRA and CDG) have minuscule O&D to even merit a conversation.

Let's take a look at all the new routes that BA has launched in the past few years: SAN, AUS, SJC and MSY. The first three are very safe markets. SAN-LHR is a large market in itself but also has the potential to draw from the greater Los Angeles area. The AUS-LHR is a growing market. I've seen them trend upwards since the 2013 graphic that has been shared in this thread. But AUS also draws from the San Antonio metro area (SAT-LHR and FRA itself is about 60-65 PDEW). The other important thing is that the tech traffic from AUS to Asia in general and India in particular has exploded. Apart from EU, the connections to India, TLV, DXB, IST, RUH etc are more than sufficient to fill the aircraft. In case of SJC, being 10 miles away from both Apple and Google HQ makes it THE airport of the Silicon Valley and has a huge market to London and beyond.

That brings us to MSY. It appears that this route doesn't fit the "safe" market criteria. But, just a quick glance at the graphic that has been shared in this thread suggests that

1. MSY was the largest market to Europe without a non stop service
2. It had the highest average one-way fare to Europe
3. It had the third best yield[/list]

If you look at the points above, it makes the "most sense" for BA to consider MSY. Even when they did start MSY, they did it as a 4 weekly flight. A very "safe" decision if you ask me considering that MSY to beyond London markets in Asia and the Indian subcontinent is not nearly as strong as AUS.

Now, that we have sufficient evidence to establish that BA likes to start "safe" routes let us come to BNA. We've all heard of all the fortune 500 companies and country music industries that call BNA their home. But, the overall market from BNA to Europe is still 170 PDEW and the beyond EU numbers to India, Middle East aren't that significant. If anyone has 2016 data then I'd be happy to see it. Also, BNA does not have another metropolitan area to draw passengers from. Their partner AA simply aren't that strong as they used to be in the past. Outside of DFW, LAX and probably CLT, it is an all Eagle operation. Essentially, BA is all alone in BNA and have to rely on their entire might of the LHR hub to start an 'out-of-the box' route to BNA. Given their recent history what makes people think that they will start BNA?

Also, why should BA only consider the likes of STL, BNA, CMH, IND, CLE etc for expansion when there are other major markets such as TPA, DTW, MSP, PDX from where BA doesn't fly to LHR?

seahawk · Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:00 am

I would not rule out LH. With the VW factory in Chattanooga there could be some basic biz demand. Same with the Mercedes factory in Tuscaloosa

Midwestindy · Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:09 am

DfwAussie wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
DfwAussie wrote:

Curious, for what year are these statistics?

2016---GDP https://www.statista.com/statistics/183 ... tro-areas/
2016---Metro population https://www.thoughtco.com/largest-metro ... as-1435135, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_M ... ical_Areas

IND has five fortune 500 companies, Cummins is in the IND CSA.

Metro Nashville has 6. Not really an overwhelmingly compelling argument for either side, since it lists American companies. It's obvious this thread is running it's course and has turned into a "my city can beat up your city" pissing contest. Ya'll have fun with the argument. I'm going to go read all the trolls on Facebook who think we have a secret colony on Mars creating mutant humans (yes its a real topic). Oh..and Midwwest Indy dude, insulting people here kinda show you should be the one on Facebook than here.

That was random, Who did I insult? None of my messages were even directed towards anyone...

But considering you just tried to insult me on here... shouldn't you be the one on Facebook too? :stirthepot:

Midwestindy · Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:20 am

SATexan wrote:
what makes people think that they will start BNA?

Also, why should BA only consider the likes of STL, BNA, CMH, IND, CLE etc for expansion when there are other major markets such as TPA, DTW, MSP, PDX from where BA doesn't fly to LHR?

http://www.tennessean.com/story/money/2 ... /15417177/
http://www.cleveland.com/travel/index.s ... rt_di.html
https://airwaysmag.com/industry/analysi ... s-service/
http://www.nashvillepost.com/business/d ... rways-link

These cities wouldn't be mentioned without BA saying sometime in the past two years that they wanted to add flights to those cities, that is why it is being discussed...

I can't speak for BNA, or the rest because I don't live in anyone of those cities. But I can speak for IND being a consideration, Rolls-Royce, Cummins, Eli Lilly, Roche Diagnostics, Dow Agro Sciences, and a few other companies transport large amounts of cargo to europe through FedEx and CargoLux, some of which could go on a BA flight and make it instantly more profitable. Furthermore, it hasn't been discussed but IND officials met with BA officials in the late spring, and since that meeting the director of IND said in an interview that flights to London were six-eight months away, I also talked to a member of the Indiana state government who confirmed that a late summer/fall London announcement was very likely. Furthermore, IND has a 15 million dollar state fund to tap into, along with other airport/private incentives that could be offered.

finnishway · Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:33 am

Midwestindy wrote:
airport/private incentives that could be offered.

IND is offering up to 400k for 24 months incentive deal for this kind of service.

Its money yes, but still not nearly as much as other airports have paid or are ready to pay for TATL flights.

Cleveland has offered similar kind of deal, Cincinnati even more.

But cities like Baltimore and Hartford have really put money into the game and with these cities we are talking about millions of dollars.

Its fair to say that money does matter also when airlines are making decisions. Like Baltimore and Harftord have offered revenue guarantees. With money there can be all kind of interesting surprises coming.

Midwestindy · Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:17 pm

finnishway wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
airport/private incentives that could be offered.

IND is offering up to 400k for 24 months incentive deal for this kind of service.

Its money yes, but still not nearly as much as other airports have paid or are ready to pay for TATL flights.

Cleveland has offered similar kind of deal, Cincinnati even more.

But cities like Baltimore and Hartford have really put money into the game and with these cities we are talking about millions of dollars.

Its fair to say that money does matter also when airlines are making decisions. Like Baltimore and Harftord have offered revenue guarantees. With money there can be all kind of interesting surprises coming.

https://d1j6zi7czwjuok.cloudfront.net/i ... EBSITE.pdf

The link is to the revised incentives package released around the time IND was meeting with BA, conisciedence, I think not.... Large portions are directed directly towards BA. For example, pg.14 says "This incentive is based on operations and equipment. Thus, the financial impact will vary. As an example, the estimated incentive for international daily service on a Boeing 787 is approximately $1.0M."

But ultimately the IND airport incentives are just the cherry on top, there is private money available, like the 1.5 mil that was given for UA to open IND-SFO. In addition like I mentioned earlier, the Governor of Indiana has publically said that 5-10 million of the 15 million dollar state development fund was intended to be given to IND for international flights. So with all that being said, IND brings a lot to the table.

However, I would like to see what BNA's incentives package entails, considering this is technically a BNA thread...

DaufuskieGuy · Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:50 pm

what about a sky team carrier to AMS or CDG? I would think DL has a big base of frequent flyers,

MalevTU134 · Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:04 pm

DaufuskieGuy wrote:
what about a sky team carrier to AMS or CDG? I would think DL has a big base of frequent flyers,

And they also have ATL and DTW hubs to defend...

Cubsrule · Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:29 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
DfwAussie wrote:
777PHX wrote:

Try arguing with facts instead of your opinion, darling, it'll make you sound a bit more intelligent....

City GDPs:

St. Louis: $150 billion
Indy: $134 billion
Nashville: $113 billion

F500 company HQs:

St. Louis: 8(#9 is somewhat debatable with Monsanto, purchased by a Dutch company last year)
Nashville: 6
Indy: 4

And I'll throw in MSA populations as well....

STL - 2.8M
Indy - 2.0M
Nashville - 1.8M

Curious, for what year are these statistics?

2016---GDP https://www.statista.com/statistics/183 ... tro-areas/
2016---Metro population https://www.thoughtco.com/largest-metro ... as-1435135, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_M ... ical_Areas

IND has five fortune 500 companies, Cummins is in the IND CSA.

As between these three cities, the MSA numbers make things look worse for BNA and IND than they probably should. Columbus, Indiana, which almost certainly makes an outsized contribution to IND's air travel demand because of Cummins, Dorel and Toyota Material Handling, is not in the Indianapolis MSA. We can make a similar point for Nashville about Clarksville and Bowling Green (Fort Campbell, Hankook). There's not really anything similar lurking just outside of the Saint Louis MSA.

Midwestindy wrote:
However, I would like to see what BNA's incentives package entails, considering this is technically a BNA thread...

For whatever reason, Nashville's incentives do not generate as much chatter, though it is perhaps relevant to this conversation that BNA landed UA and VX service to SFO without subsidies.

seahawk wrote:
I would not rule out LH. With the VW factory in Chattanooga there could be some basic biz demand. Same with the Mercedes factory in Tuscaloosa

Tuscaloosa is closer to ATL than to BNA, and ATL has STR service. The Mercedes-Benz demand to BNA is probably almost all Nissan joint venture-related; IINM Tennessee is the only place in North America where engines that go in M-B passenger vehicles are built.

MalevTU134 wrote:
Ok, let's see... Suppose we take AMS for example as you suggested. Which secondary markets in Europe could you not reach with one single stop at ATL, EWR, JFK, ORD, DTW etc, but with a AMS flight you could? Places like SOF, DBV, MLA, CTA, BIO? Honestly, how many passengers fly from BNA to these secondary markets? And at what yields? It is easy to dream up "cool" connections, so long as you are not the one who has to pay the losses they incur.

It's more than that. Would you prefer BNA-AMS-WAW over BNA-ORD (terminal change)-WAW? I certainly would. Moreover, there is some level of demand taking ground transportation to many cities in Europe that might prefer a single connection flight straight to the city in question over a single connection flight to a larger airport followed by a train or bus ride. I suspect that service to a European hub would increase demand substantially on city pairs like IND-BLL or BNA-HAJ. Those are not huge markets, of course, but there are many of them.

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