Central American Aviation Thread - 2017 (2nd Half)

SJOtoLIR · Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:59 am

THE CENTRAL AMERICAN AVIATION THREAD
Part LXVII

Airlines from Europe in Central America

This thread is now dedicated for those European carrier flying to the isthmus.
Our region has recently experienced new carriers operating here or increasing their weekly frequencies.
Some of them are now flying on a year-round basis.
Ten years ago, only IB and DE were in service here. This fact provide an idea about the expansion of that market.

IB MAD-GUA-SAL-MAD
IB MAD-PTY
IB MAD-SJO
EB MAD-GUA-HAV-MAD
UX MAD-SAP
AF CDG-PTY
AF CDG-SJO
KL AMS-PTY
KL AMS-SJO. Effective: October 31
WK ZRH-SJO
TK IST-BOG-PTY-IST
LH FRA-PTY
LH FRA-SJO. Effective: March 29
BA LGW-SJO
BY LGW-LIR
DE FRA-SDQ-PTY
DE FRA-SDQ-SJO
DE MUC-SDQ-SJO

Edited on July 13th, 2017.

LTU932 · Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:58 am

I also think that LH 518 and 519's schedule serves only O&D traffic. It's nothing that appeals to connecting passengers.

juanchito · Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:48 pm

Correction on the EB flight
MAD-VRA-GUA-VRA-MAD

SQ22 · Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:17 pm

Link to the previous thread:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1352883

SJOtoLIR · Sat Jul 15, 2017 2:27 am

juanchito wrote:
EB flight
MAD-VRA-GUA-VRA-MAD

So Wamos Air has reversed their former plans.

Regards.

LRC315 · Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:29 pm

SJOtoLIR wrote:

THE CENTRAL AMERICAN AVIATION THREAD
Part LXVII

Airlines from Europe in Central America

This thread is now dedicated for those European carrier flying to the isthmus.
Our region has recently experienced new carriers operating here or increasing their weekly frequencies.
Some of them are now flying on a year-round basis.
Ten years ago, only IB and DE were in service here. This fact provide an idea about the expansion of that market.

IB MAD-GUA-SAL-MAD
IB MAD-PTY
IB MAD-SJO
EB MAD-GUA-HAV-MAD
UX MAD-SAP
AF CDG-PTY
AF CDG-SJO
KL AMS-PTY
KL AMS-SJO. Effective: October 31
WK ZRH-SJO
TK IST-BOG-PTY-IST
LH FRA-PTY
LH FRA-SJO. Effective: March 29
BA LGW-SJO
BY LGW-LIR
DE FRA-SDQ-PTY
DE FRA-SDQ-SJO
DE MUC-SDQ-SJO

Edited on July 13th, 2017.

To my understanding DE does not operate to PTY anymore

yellowtail · Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:06 pm

How is BA doing in SJO now. Initially loads were bad.

2travel2know2 · Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:38 pm

yellowtail wrote:
How is BA doing in SJO now. Initially loads were bad.

Maybe routing it via PTY may improve the loads.

juanchito · Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:10 pm

2travel2know2 wrote:
yellowtail wrote:
How is BA doing in SJO now. Initially loads were bad.
Maybe routing it via PTY may improve the loads.

According to a facebook page called Aeroinfo Costa Rica, they are doing great on this route.
All actual European routes from SJO are above 80% load factor.

Juanchito

LTU932 · Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:58 pm

juanchito wrote:
2travel2know2 wrote:
yellowtail wrote:
How is BA doing in SJO now. Initially loads were bad.
Maybe routing it via PTY may improve the loads.

According to a facebook page called Aeroinfo Costa Rica, they are doing great on this route.
All actual European routes from SJO are above 80% load factor.

Juanchito

High load factors don't mean good yields. Even as a leisure route out of LGW, the yields have to be right for SJO to be sustainable. At least it seems they're doing better than 17 years ago, when the route was operated via GCM IIRC. If they'd move the route to LHR (which I know they'll never do), they could use belly cargo as one potential driver for good yields.

aer · Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:47 am

According to Prensa Libre, Guatemala will now place a higher security scrutiny on electronics larger than a cellphone for flights to the US. Apparently Mexico is doing it as well. Any other countries in the region doing this? Link in Spanish http://www.prensalibre.com/guatemala/comunitario/las-nuevas-medidas-de-seguridad-en-los-vuelos-de-guatemala-hacia-eeuu

LTU932 · Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:02 am

aer wrote:
According to Prensa Libre, Guatemala will now place a higher security scrutiny on electronics larger than a cellphone for flights to the US. Apparently Mexico is doing it as well. Any other countries in the region doing this? Link in Spanish http://www.prensalibre.com/guatemala/comunitario/las-nuevas-medidas-de-seguridad-en-los-vuelos-de-guatemala-hacia-eeuu

SJO did also increase security measures for electronics on flights to the US, including screenings at the gate. I believe it all started either last or this week, I don't remember. Personally, I have no problems with that.

LTU932 · Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:21 pm

http://www.diarioextra.com/Noticia/deta ... nature-air

I apologise for linking to Diario Extra, one of the worst tabloids on the planet, however it seems all four LET-410 aircraft operated by Nature Air have been grounded by DGAC due to issues with their leasing contracts. This leaves them with 2 Twin Otters (unless my information is off). No statement by 5C so far.

juanchito · Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:49 pm

Iberia will increment MAD-GUA-SAL-MAD to 5 weekly on October 30th.
Flights will be operated on A330 equipment and flights will be on Mondays, Tuesdays, Thursdays, Saturdays and Sundays.

yellowtail · Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:45 pm

At what point does a European carrier do Managua. Apart from Belize (I don't know if MAD-SAP has ended its trial run yet), Nicaragua is the last country left in the isthmus without Euro service.

globalcabotage · Sat Jul 22, 2017 2:40 am

Rumor is that UA will start ORD-GUA (and a few more), to keep AA out.

juanchito · Sat Jul 22, 2017 12:21 pm

globalcabotage wrote:
Rumor is that UA will start ORD-GUA (and a few more), to keep AA out.

Sounds great, AA already started flights to GUA from ORD seasonal
Saturday flights only on high season.

Juanchito

yellowtail · Sun Jul 23, 2017 5:35 pm

According to the 9N website, quoting routes online, WS is to commence 1Xweekly YYCBZE Nov 3. That will be the longest scheduled flight serving Belize.

A check of OAG shows this
YYC-BZE effective 03NOV17 1 weekly
WS2216 YYC0915 – 1551BZE 73W 5
WS2217 BZE1645 – 2206YYC 73W 5

SJOtoLIR · Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:57 pm

yellowtail wrote:
At what point does a European carrier do Managua.

Madrid comes to mind as the only feasible European destination for the time being.
The day when IB would resume Managua isn't exactly clear.
It might be coupled with other regional station. I doubt about the capability of the runway, in order to sustain any Managua - Madrid flight fully packed.

Regards.

LTU932 · Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:19 pm

SJOtoLIR wrote:
It might be coupled with other regional station. I doubt about the capability of the runway, in order to sustain any Managua - Madrid flight fully packed.

Since I personally don't see MGA getting nonstop service to Europe, why not make it the first stop in a triangular route via Honduras, say e.g. MAD-MGA-SAP-MAD. I don't know how IB's schedule is to SAL, so otherwise, if SAP doesn't make sense, why not via SAL? And yes, I am aware that San Pedro Sula is 254 km northwest from Tegucigalpa (on the CA-5 highway according to Google Maps), but it seems SAP would be the only viable airport for such service (runway wise) if IB decides to add Honduras to its schedule (and I don't think there will ever be an A330 landing and departing TGU :stirthepot:

).

wnflyguy · Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:10 pm

Anyone know when the new PTY terminal is set to open?

Thanks flyguy

LTU932 · Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:00 am

wnflyguy wrote:
Anyone know when the new PTY terminal is set to open?

Thanks flyguy

http://impresa.prensa.com/economia/Tocu ... Do.twitter

PTY T2 is scheduled to open in mid 2018.

viaggiare · Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:57 pm

'Spotters': los devotos cazadores de aviones aptly describes the passion shared by a committed group of local aviation enthusiasts —among them fellow a.netters tomascubero and meneses24— that lives on in the post-La Candela era.

2travel2know2 wrote:
yellowtail wrote:
How is BA doing in SJO now. Initially loads were bad
Maybe routing it via PTY may improve the loads

Your concerns about the route's sustainability seem unwarranted. Word on the street is both TK and DU are nibbling the bait and about to be reeled in to SJO.

LTU932 wrote:
it seems they're doing better than 17 years ago, when the route was operated via GCM IIRC

Actually it was via SJU.

LTU932 wrote:
Diario Extra, one of the worst tabloids on the planet

I find Extra to be most entertaining, even informative.

LTU932 · Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:09 pm

Given the current political and economic climate in Turkey, I doubt TK will want to expand, however DU is a whole different story. Question is: If DU wants to start SJO, from where would it be?

yellowtail · Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:54 pm

Looks like 9N has suspended BZE-SAP/MID/CTM. its been zeroed out in the GDS.

2travel2know2 · Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:08 am

Any update on Tegucigalpa Palmerola Soto Cano Comayagua airport new passenger terminal?

SJOtoLIR · Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:37 pm

Avianca resumes San Salvador - New York/Newark service as shown:

AV 398...SAL 08:00...13:40 EWR... Ex Tu, Sa....319/320
AV 399...EWR 14:55...19:05 SAL... Ex Tu, Sa...319/320
Effective: November 17

Regards.

yellowtail · Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:20 pm

SJOtoLIR wrote:
Avianca resumes San Salvador - New York/Newark service as shown:

AV 398...SAL 08:00...13:40 EWR... Ex Tu, Sa....319/320
AV 399...EWR 14:55...19:05 SAL... Ex Tu, Sa...319/320
Effective: November 17

Regards.

How many times have they tried this service?

turk223 · Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:23 pm

I remember when Copa was announcing new destinations nearly every six months. Has the expansion stopped? What will they do with all that space when the new terminal opens? Will CM ever start a service to Barbados from PTY? It was "confirmed" back in 2006. And 2011. And 2012. And 2015.

yellowtail · Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:12 pm

CM has been focussed on Argentina by the looks of it, Mendoza, Rosario etc. CM also likes to use E-jets to open destinations but I would think that their fleet is pretty maxed out especially doing some of the those longer runs like POS, MSY and MTY.

As for BGI, who knows?

Maybe CM might like to get some C-series.

SJOtoLIR · Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:48 pm

yellowtail wrote:
How many times have they tried this service?

This would be actually the second time.
AV SAL-EWR was active from 2013 to 2015.
The airline worked at Newark terminal B which is a Star Aliiance international base: Austrian, Lufthansa, SAS, TAP, Air China, Air India, Swiss and so forth.
As a result, AV will experience a dual service in New York City area: JFK and EWR.

Regards.

SJOtoLIR · Sat Aug 12, 2017 12:04 am

turk223 wrote:
I remember when Copa was announcing new destinations nearly every six months. Has the expansion stopped?

In my view, this policy was suddenly changed due to the withdrawal of several routes:

September 30, 2015: CM PTY-IQT. Iquitos
December 15, 2015: CM PTY-VCP. Vracopos
June 30, 2016: CM PTY-PBC. Puebla
July 31, 2016: CM PTY-VSA. Villahermosa

Thus, the airline is learning to be cautious with this sort of announcements.

Regards.

2travel2know2 · Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:13 pm

SJOtoLIR wrote:
September 30, 2015: CM PTY-IQT. Iquitos
December 15, 2015: CM PTY-VCP. Vracopos
June 30, 2016: CM PTY-PBC. Puebla
July 31, 2016: CM PTY-VSA. Villahermosa

IMHO,
IQT won't come back as CM destination. IQT was never marketed properly as a destination for tourist looking for Jungle holidays or to save time when departing or arriving Perú avoiding multiple LIM visits..
VCP might return, all depends how the Brazilian economy improves. Not only VCP is GRU back-up, Campinas is a market by itself.
PBC, most likely to be replaced by PTY-TLC. As demographics has showed CM that FLL could work, the demographics (wealthy passenger base) near TLC will do the same.
VSA, not a chance. But if a Brazilian tour operator got CM to fly into SNU because cheap holidays for Brazilians, lets see if the Brazilians discover HUX and cheap holidays over-there so to give that Mexican resort flights to PTY.
.

SJOtoLIR · Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:27 pm

Copa Airlines has the credit of launching several regional destinations where their competitors do not have a sustainable level of success.
However, some of these stations have to grow even more, in the coming years. For example, Liberia, Belize City and Holguin receive no more than two weekly flights by now.
The point is that not all the regional destinations are desperately asking for Copa Airlines. That was the case for the extinct airports as pointing out before: VCP, IQT, PBC and VSA.
On the other hand, some of the recent North American stations have a decent arrangement, in terms of their weekly frequencies: CM PTY-YUL 4x weekly, CM PTY-TPA 4x weekly, CM PTY-FLL 4x weekly, CM PTY-MSY 4x weekly. Even the next CM PTY-DEN is being promoted 4 times per week from December 2017.

SJOtoLIR · Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:54 am

Some sources are posting that Santa Barbara Airlines from Venezuela won't fly the Caracas - Panama City sector beyond September 01.

2travel2know2 · Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:48 pm

SJOtoLIR wrote:
Some sources are posting that Santa Barbara Airlines from Venezuela won't fly the Caracas - Panama City sector beyond September 01.

Looks like that's the case.
Unlike CM, Santa Barbara fully depends on PTY-CCS O/D, even if it offers fares between MIA and PTY via CCS.
Now that Panama will require Venezuelans to have visas to visit the country, it's very likely the Venezuelan airlines flying to PTY will either decrease frequencies or stop flying to PTY.
Have no clue if Venezuelans connecting at PTY having several hours between flights will be allowed into the country while waiting for the connecting flights without visas.

LTU932 · Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:56 pm

2travel2know2 wrote:
SJOtoLIR wrote:
Some sources are posting that Santa Barbara Airlines from Venezuela won't fly the Caracas - Panama City sector beyond September 01.
Looks like that's the case.
Unlike CM, Santa Barbara fully depends on PTY-CCS O/D, even if it offers fares between MIA and PTY via CCS.
Now that Panama will require Venezuelans to have visas to visit the country, it's very likely the Venezuelan airlines flying to PTY will either decrease frequencies or stop flying to PTY.
Have no clue if Venezuelans connecting at PTY having several hours between flights will be allowed into the country while waiting for the connecting flights without visas.

The problem is, if they go landside and they even get a visa-on-arrival, like it's the case in certain other countries, chances are that they could overstay that transit visa. Just remember those days when the border in Paso Canoas was filled with people who fled e.g. from Cuba and Africa trying to get to the United States and this causing some tension between Costa Rica and Panama, as well as other countries. Many of them came through Colombia into Panama, crossing through the Darién gap, so the question may also become if Colombia will see itself forced to demand visas as well for Venezuelans. They're taking Venezuelan refugees in by the thousands IIRC.

That being said, if Panama also demands transit visas for Venezuelans staying over 24 hours, this could be the end for flights by Venezuelan airlines into PTY, at least in the current economy that Venezuela is going through.

SJOtoLIR · Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:23 am

Copa Airlines is solidly flying to Venezuela: Caracas, Valencia and Maracaibo.
Many carriers have already ceased their services to Venezuela. However, CM doesn't seem to stop these flights.

Regards.

SJOtoLIR · Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:37 pm

As of September 12th, MIA might resume their activities due to Hurricane Irma.
The bulky market South Florida - Central America is even suspended.
Lots of stranded passengers in both directions.

Regards.

SJOtoLIR · Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:44 pm

Volaris Costa Rica already started a new route: Mexico City - San Jose as shown:

Q6 4016...SJO 08:40 - 12:45 MEX...Tu, Th, Sa....319
Q6 4017...MEX 13:50 - 16:05 SJO...Tu, Th, Sa....319
Effective: September 14

Their current services linking Mexico and Costa Rica had been previouly upgraded:

July 17: Q6 SJO-GDL to 4x
July 18: Q6 SJO-CUN to 3x

Regards.

LTU932 · Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:52 pm

I like that schedule on Q6 SJO-MEX. Great for a weekend in el DF.

clo1973 · Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:39 pm

Anyone knows why AV reduced SAL-CLO from daily to 5x between August and mid November this year? they are not affecting seats, since most of the flights are being done by A320 (as opposed
to the usual E190)?...after mid november the route is going daily again.

clo1973 · Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:41 pm

Anyone knows why AV reduced SAL-CLO from daily to 5x between August and mid November this year? they are not affecting seats, since most of the flights are being done by A320 (as opposed
to the usual E190)?...after mid november the route is going daily again.

SJOtoLIR · Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:50 am

clo1973 wrote:
Anyone knows why AV reduced SAL-CLO from daily to 5x between August and mid November this year?

I have no idea.
Perhaps AV is just adjusting the demand of passengers to the proper frequencies.

Speaking again about Mexico City - San Jose, four carriers are now serving that market as non-stop flights:
Volaris Costa Rica: 3x weekly
AeroMexico: 14x weekly
InterJet: 13x weekly
Avianca: 4x weekly

Regards.

clo1973 · Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:49 pm

SJOtoLIR wrote:
clo1973 wrote:
Anyone knows why AV reduced SAL-CLO from daily to 5x between August and mid November this year?

I have no idea.
Perhaps AV is just adjusting the demand of passengers to the proper frequencies.

I doubt it, the route has seen consistent growth over the years (i.e. double digit), loads are healthy (over 70% as year round average) and it allows AV to compete with CM in CLO
for pax going to C. America / Mexico / West Coast...

Kilgen · Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:58 pm

Copa has signed codeshare agreements with LC Perú and Peruvian: http://www.portaldeturismo.pe/noticia/c ... y-peruvian

Although the news says that it is to improve the traffic to CIX, neither of them has other destinations from CIX than LIM. I wonder if it is so that CM can keep the six daily fx to LIM? The following news states that this is another option for Copa for the six fx to LIM: http://www.portaldeturismo.pe/noticia/v ... esta-ruta-

Kilgen · Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:57 am

Turkish Airlines expands its codeshare with Copa Airlines, adding SJO and LIR.

http://www.airkule.com/haber/THY-ILE-CO ... IYOR/28372

So, this is the forth round of new codeshares. In the first they signed: pty-dav/poa/gig/mao/cnf/GRU/SDQ/PUJ/GYE/UIO/SAL/ASU/LIM. In the second round they added all of CM Mexican destinations: PTY-cun/gdl/mex/mty. In the third round they added all of CM Colombian destinations: pty-baq/bog/bga/ctg/clo/mde/pei and now they have added all of CM destinations in Costa Rica: PTY-sjo/lir

juanchito · Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:32 pm

Wamos suspended Guatemala and Varadero, flights will resume June next year.

Juanchito

2travel2know2 · Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:45 pm

Kilgen wrote:
Copa has signed codeshare agreements with LC Perú and Peruvian: http://www.portaldeturismo.pe/noticia/c ... y-peruvian

Although the news says that it is to improve the traffic to CIX, neither of them has other destinations from CIX than LIM. I wonder if it is so that CM can keep the six daily fx to LIM? The following news states that this is another option for Copa for the six fx to LIM: http://www.portaldeturismo.pe/noticia/v ... esta-ruta-

After the IQT fiasco, if it could be called that, CM might be quite cautious when it comes to new destinations in Perú.
That article states that the Peruvian authorities are pushing/enticing CM to fly to AQP in order to grant CM a 6th daily LIM frequency. However operational-wise PTY-AQP is no PTY-CIX, given AQP altitude the E190 might not be able to take off fully loaded to PTY and there's an issue with AQP operational hours. The perfect PTY-AQP-PTY would be E190 night time but at those times AQP may be closed.
IMHO, sooner of later CM will make it to AQP, that Peruvian city already has the critical mass of Northbound passengers looking to avoid LIM wishing for a AQP-PTY (hub) flight and like CM secondary destinations in Argentina and Brazil, the PTY O/D traffic will be minimal.

SJOtoLIR · Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:22 am

The source wikipedia states that Copa Airlines will fly to Arequipa soon.
Frequencies and equipment have not been confirmed yet.

Regards.

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