User avatar
TWA772LR
Posts: 5249
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:12 am

Re: CS100/300 as the only replacement for B717?

Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:19 am

WPvsMW wrote:
Wayfarer515 wrote:
The current version of the SSJ100 is fit for the job, Interjet has 20-30 minute turnaround times with them and they haven't had any issues so far, that´s because the Sam146 engine was designed with this in mind plus its excellent hot and high performance. FAA certification shouldn't be much of a problem if the order number is big enough, plus the motivation of entering the USA market and it can even be adjusted to fit the scope clause regulation for the US regionals(do something similar to what they did in order to fly out of Bromma for Cityjet). I also recall Sky Aviation from Indonesia doing some inter-island hopping with theirs.


The SaM146 engine certainly fits the stage profiles, but the SSJ 100, in standard 2-class config, is 87 pax. Too small for HA. HA recently went to 8F/120Y on its B712s.

The SaM146 is based on the CFM56, and doesn't have the fuel efficiency needed for a modern fleet.

Isn't Sukhoi working on a longer SSJ?

On the SaM146, it may not be the best engine on paper, but it totally optimized for the SSJ. It's not meant to be a catch-all engine.
"It's not getting to the land of the nonrev that's the problem, it's getting back." ~~Captain Hector Barbossa
The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer.
 
WPvsMW
Topic Author
Posts: 592
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:30 pm

Re: CS100/300 as the only replacement for B717?

Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:00 am

TWA772LR wrote:
Isn't Sukhoi working on a longer SSJ?

On the SaM146, it may not be the best engine on paper, but it totally optimized for the SSJ. It's not meant to be a catch-all engine.


The planned, larger SSJ130 can be fitted with a PW1000G series GTF engine or the Russian Aviadvigatel PD-14 engine, the former having the same GTF issues as the CS100, and the latter being untried.
 
User avatar
OA940
Posts: 882
Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 6:18 am

Re: CS100/300 as the only replacement for B717?

Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:45 pm

A mix of the CS100 and CS300 on both inter-island and transpacific routes would be great for them.
A350/CSeries = bae
 
User avatar
kelvin933
Posts: 426
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:20 am

Re: CS100/300 as the only replacement for B717?

Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:45 pm

WPvsMW wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
Isn't Sukhoi working on a longer SSJ?

On the SaM146, it may not be the best engine on paper, but it totally optimized for the SSJ. It's not meant to be a catch-all engine.


The planned, larger SSJ130 can be fitted with a PW1000G series GTF engine or the Russian Aviadvigatel PD-14 engine, the former having the same GTF issues as the CS100, and the latter being untried.

The SSJ130 with the PW GTF appears to have been abandoned as a result of the trade sanctions now in place. UAC is working on a 120 seat variant of the SSJ100 with higher thrust SaM146 engines and increased wingspan.
“Nations have no permanent friends or allies, they only have permanent interests.”
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 1642
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: CS100/300 as the only replacement for B717?

Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:45 pm

Anyone wanting to understand the economics of auto/passenger ferries and fast passenger ferries can look at the economics of both in the Puget Sound. As I wrote I was watching our new fast ferry come in. They are expensive, but often essential for good service. The economy of our area depends upon them, but they are heavily subsidized.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
WPvsMW
Topic Author
Posts: 592
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:30 pm

Re: CS100/300 as the only replacement for B717?

Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:34 pm

kelvin933 wrote:
The SSJ130 with the PW GTF appears to have been abandoned as a result of the trade sanctions now in place. UAC is working on a 120 seat variant of the SSJ100 with higher thrust SaM146 engines and increased wingspan.


I was aware of Superjet's floating the idea of an "SSJ120" a year ago,
http://aviationweek.com/shownews/sukhoi ... t-superjet
but it needs a new wing, and I've read nothing since. Interjet's stage lengths are 90 min., so if it is ever built, the "SSJ120" would fit as a B712 replacement for operations have 90 min. or longer stages. MEX is hot, high, and humid... SSJ should do some testing of shorter stages there.

Interesting statement in the link that the SSJ100 FBW is more advanced than that of the A320.
 
WPvsMW
Topic Author
Posts: 592
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:30 pm

Re: CS100/300 as the only replacement for B717?

Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:41 pm

OA940 wrote:
A mix of the CS100 and CS300 on both inter-island and transpacific routes would be great for them.


Thus the thread title... I agree. HA would be a mini-DL. Feeder fleet of C-series, with Airbus NBs and WBs for TPAC.
 
highflier92660
Posts: 591
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 2:16 am

Re: CS100/300 as the only replacement for B717?

Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:21 pm

The longest inter-island air segment is only 216 statute miles from Honolulu to Hilo, the highest altitudes the Being 717 reaches are in the mid-twenties and yet for decades the airlines have used low-bypass turbine airliners. Back in the 1980s an upstart airline called Mid-Pacific used Japanese YS-11 turboprops on inter-island routes and offered low fares. Both Aloha and Hawaiian matched their airfares and countered with advertisements touting the vibration-free speed, comfort and altitude capabilities of their Boeing 737-200s and DC-9-50s and MD-80s--- on 100-mile long routes from Honolulu to Lihue and Kahului. There was no logic to their advertisements but Mid-Pac went into oblivion after a few years.

Me-thinks Hawaiian will extend the number of cycles and service life of their Boeing 717 fleet for as many years as possible.
 
seat1a
Posts: 328
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:52 pm

Re: CS100/300 as the only replacement for B717?

Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:10 pm

lostsound wrote:
A dual team of CS100s working on inter island and CS300s working on low density trans-pacific routes could be something to look at for them.


Interesting. What type of low-density routes? HNL-BUR? HNL-SNA? Just a thought.
 
lostsound
Posts: 540
Joined: Mon May 21, 2012 1:43 pm

Re: CS100/300 as the only replacement for B717?

Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:06 am

seat1a wrote:
lostsound wrote:
A dual team of CS100s working on inter island and CS300s working on low density trans-pacific routes could be something to look at for them.


Interesting. What type of low-density routes? HNL-BUR? HNL-SNA? Just a thought.


HNL to BUR would be really cool, are there restrictions preventing that? Yes, airports like LGB and SNA. The old Aloha routes could be filled nicely with the 130 seat planes.
There could be opportunity to connect the South Pacific with them as well.
 
77H
Posts: 655
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:27 pm

Re: CS100/300 as the only replacement for B717?

Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:19 am

WPvsMW wrote:
The issue with any type of ferry in Hawaii is not economics. It's hard to explain... but it's something like ... each county in the state is a major island (except Maui County includes Maui, Lanai, and Molokai, and Kauai County includes Kauai and Niihau). Each Island wants to stay as insular as possible, culturally, politically, economically. Think of a parameter, the answer is "stay insular". Ferries decrease insularity. Ferries are opposed at the risk of being sucked under a ferry while protesting the ferry on your surfboard. Ferries that bring cars from Oahu are especially unwelcome. Airline service is accepted ... probably as a necessity for access to professionals and to state and federal governmental agencies. Most of the doctors, lawyers, accountants, engineers, etc., and governmental agencies in the state are on Oahu. So, the line in the sand is air service, OK; sea service, kapu.


Rogah that thundacat ! The ferry stalled for a myriad of reasons. Environmental reasons were a big one. Not only the impact of the ferries on sea life but each island is a diverse ecosystem in its own right. There are a lot of small animals, bugs, seeds and spores on our cars that could be transported to other islands that could cause an imbalance to the ecosystem on that island. For instance, fire ants are becoming a problem on the big island but are largely absent on the other islands.

Cultural concerns over preserving way of life on the outer islands and the desire to avoid the big city problems found on Oahu.

Economics is also a factor. The airlines, rental car, taxi and shuttle industries are huge in Hawaii. I'd bet my bottom dollar they had a heavy hand in stalling the ferry. I'd absolutely love hopping on the ferry on a Friday after work with my car to enjoy a weekend on Maui, Big Island or Kauai. I don't have to spend big bucks on HA's monoply fares, go through the hassle at TSA, or wait 15 deep at the rental car place. Drive on to the ferry, drive off and be on my way. To me there is something so relaxing about driving my own car. The ferry would have given the people of Hawaii the chance to road trip around their own state. 'Tis only a fleeting dream now.

That said, I am happy the different counties try and remain as independent as possible. The last thing the outer islands need is the blantant mismanagement and corruption that plagues the C&C of Honolulu. HART anyone?

77H
 
77H
Posts: 655
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:27 pm

Re: CS100/300 as the only replacement for B717?

Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:22 am

lostsound wrote:
seat1a wrote:
lostsound wrote:
A dual team of CS100s working on inter island and CS300s working on low density trans-pacific routes could be something to look at for them.


Interesting. What type of low-density routes? HNL-BUR? HNL-SNA? Just a thought.


HNL to BUR would be really cool, are there restrictions preventing that? Yes, airports like LGB and SNA. The old Aloha routes could be filled nicely with the 130 seat planes.
There could be opportunity to connect the South Pacific with them as well.


Here's a wild idea! AQ v2 with CS1/300's ! I miss that stunning bird'o paradise plying the skies. I also loved AQ's mainland network strategy. It was innovative and unique and is replicated to this day with much success.

77H
 
redroo
Posts: 250
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:28 pm

Re: CS100/300 as the only replacement for B717?

Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:55 am

It does beg the question what with QF do as a replacement for the 717?

There are a lot of skinny, LONG routes in AU that the 717 is perfect for.
 
User avatar
aerolimani
Posts: 767
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:46 pm

Re: CS100/300 as the only replacement for B717?

Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:54 pm

redroo wrote:
It does beg the question what with QF do as a replacement for the 717?

There are a lot of skinny, LONG routes in AU that the 717 is perfect for.

According to the BBD page, anywhere in Australia is no problem. Even from Sydney, much of southeast Asia is within range. Antarctica, anyone? Of course, the return trip could be complicated. ;)

Image

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos