http://news.delta.com/delta-air-lines-a ... 017-profit

Amazing "best in company's history" results for DL, generating higher profits in Q2 '17 versus Q2 '16. Congratulations to all DL employees around the world. Must be a great place to work.

DL747400 wrote:

Amazing "best in company's history" results for DL, generating higher profits in Q2 '17 versus Q2 '16. Congratulations to all DL employees around the world. Must be a great place to work.

Well, higher "adjusted" profits. GAAP profit was actually lower Q2 17 than Q2 16.

DL747400 wrote:

http://news.delta.com/delta-air-lines-announces-june-quarter-2017-profit

Amazing "best in company's history" results for DL, generating higher profits in Q2 '17 versus Q2 '16. Congratulations to all DL employees around the world. Must be a great place to work.

Financial results have no bearing on employee moral or relations.

flyguy84 wrote:

Financial results have no bearing on employee moral or relations.

Unless its VA and have not made money in the last 6 years

flyguy84 wrote:

Financial results have no bearing on employee moral or relations.

But profit sharing as a piece of the overall benefits portfolio does contribute to good employee moral and positive labor relations.

Everyone I know who works for DL takes home a very nice profit sharing check each February and they are very happy to cash those checks. My employer (different industry) is also very profitable year after year, but they do not not offer a profit sharing program. I wish they did.

From the conversations I've had with the DL employees I know, they do indicate that they enjoy working for DL. They also point out that DL is not perfect and explain their version of how and why that is, but they seem to be very happy as DL employees for the most part.

DL. You are welcome.

Maybe they will buy some more new planes (ha ha). My ears are still ringing from my May flight in the back of an MD88 (or 90).

DL747400 wrote:

flyguy84 wrote:

Financial results have no bearing on employee moral or relations.

But profit sharing as a piece of the overall benefits portfolio does contribute to good employee moral and positive labor relations.

Everyone I know who works for DL takes home a very nice profit sharing check each February and they are very happy to cash those checks.

Bingo. Financial results themselves may have little bearing on employee morale or relations, but employees feeling as though they're both drivers and beneficiaries of positive financial results most certainly does drive employee morale and relations.

Good results, and very nice to see a concrete return to YoY RASM improvements in the industry. Congratulations to all those involved.

sgbroimp wrote:

Maybe they will buy some more new planes (ha ha). My ears are still ringing from my May flight in the back of an MD88 (or 90).

I guess your ears do that on A320s, too, might want to get that checked out (ha ha). The MD90s have the same engine as many A320s.

Congratulations, Delta. now, reach for $2billion: go to 26" seat pitch and call it Basic Basic Economy.

I understand that delta likes to showboat with their financials, but it's a little bit dishonest when every other carrier is reporting their net income, and Delta is puffing their chest with their earnings and putting a little disclaimer below "pre tax." Obviously it's a great quarter for them, it's just be nice if they reported what thee really made, which is roughly 40% less then that number.

jbs2886 wrote:

sgbroimp wrote:

Maybe they will buy some more new planes (ha ha). My ears are still ringing from my May flight in the back of an MD88 (or 90).

I guess your ears do that on A320s, too, might want to get that checked out (ha ha). The MD90s have the same engine as many A320s.

The location of those engines is quite different though.

N757ST wrote:

I understand that delta likes to showboat with their financials, but it's a little bit dishonest when every other carrier is reporting their net income, and Delta is puffing their chest with their earnings and putting a little disclaimer below "pre tax." Obviously it's a great quarter for them, it's just be nice if they reported what thee really made, which is roughly 40% less then that number.

That's called PR. Every carrier does that. If you want what GAAP numbers, go look at the reports and SEC filings. No one that knows what they are doing is looking at those PR numbers.

N757ST wrote:

I understand that delta likes to showboat with their financials, but it's a little bit dishonest when every other carrier is reporting their net income, and Delta is puffing their chest with their earnings and putting a little disclaimer below "pre tax." Obviously it's a great quarter for them, it's just be nice if they reported what thee really made, which is roughly 40% less then that number.

State to State is going to yield different tax outcomes in the USA. Pretax is a better comparison between firms.

N757ST wrote:

I understand that delta likes to showboat with their financials, but it's a little bit dishonest when every other carrier is reporting their net income, and Delta is puffing their chest with their earnings and putting a little disclaimer below "pre tax." Obviously it's a great quarter for them, it's just be nice if they reported what thee really made, which is roughly 40% less then that number.

EBITDA (Earnings before Interest, Taxes, Depreciation, and Amortization) is a standard metric of profitability in the business world across all industries. If you compare that same metric or net income (which reflects those deductions, which are excluded in EBITDA), you're comparing apples to apples.

Josh32121 wrote:

N757ST wrote:

I understand that delta likes to showboat with their financials, but it's a little bit dishonest when every other carrier is reporting their net income, and Delta is puffing their chest with their earnings and putting a little disclaimer below "pre tax." Obviously it's a great quarter for them, it's just be nice if they reported what thee really made, which is roughly 40% less then that number.

EBITDA (Earnings before Interest, Taxes, Depreciation, and Amortization) is a standard metric of profitability in the business world across all industries. If you compare that same metric or net income (which reflects those deductions, which are excluded in EBITDA), you're comparing apples to apples.

jbs2886 really has the right idea: compare GAAP numbers.

EBITDA is really a poor measure for air carriers because they typically have a LOT of debt and a lot of depreciation.

MIflyer12 wrote:

jbs2886 really has the right idea: compare GAAP numbers.

EBITDA is really a poor measure for air carriers because they typically have a LOT of debt and a lot of depreciation.

Disagree as GAAP is mostly accounting driven and potentially includes many one-off items (positive or negative) that do not properly reflect how the airline is really performing. that's why Wall Street provides 'adjusted' estimates (net income exlcuding special items) that strip out one time or special items inherent in GAAP....profit sharing is also based off or non-GAAP income (in the case of Delta, pre-tax profit is the basis)....

Gentlemen, what I meant by that was generally most airlines while reporting income will report GAAP net income minus specials in their press releases. As far as I've seen, Delta is the only one that exuberantly announces and advertises pre tax earnings. Jetblue, United, Southwest, and American don't release their earnings stating "we make this operational profit!", they just announce their net income and if there are specials they will sometimes tag that in the headline. Delta in this case is the outlying datapoint.

jbs2886 wrote:

N757ST wrote:

I understand that delta likes to showboat with their financials, but it's a little bit dishonest when every other carrier is reporting their net income, and Delta is puffing their chest with their earnings and putting a little disclaimer below "pre tax." Obviously it's a great quarter for them, it's just be nice if they reported what thee really made, which is roughly 40% less then that number.

That's called PR. Every carrier does that. If you want what GAAP numbers, go look at the reports and SEC filings. No one that knows what they are doing is looking at those PR numbers.

Correct. What's been posted here is, I believe, the internal Delta communication that goes out to employees but always ends up being latched onto by news outlets and the like because of its aesthetic appeal. AA does the same thing internally (and it often ends up on A.net), and like Delta has done here, they puff up pre-tax earnings and add all the info-graphic fluff.

So did Delta have bad quarter?

airzona11 wrote:

So did Delta have bad quarter?

Not bad per say but their profits came in at the lower end of expectations so their stock is taking a beating today....

United1 wrote:

airzona11 wrote:

So did Delta have bad quarter?

Not bad per say but their profits came in at the lower end of expectations so their stock is taking a beating today....

DL also put out good news on PRASM earlier this month that increased optimism a bit too much. See: https://www.bloomberg.com/gadfly/articl ... oth-flight

N757ST wrote:

Gentlemen, what I meant by that was generally most airlines while reporting income will report GAAP net income minus specials in their press releases. As far as I've seen, Delta is the only one that exuberantly announces and advertises pre tax earnings. Jetblue, United, Southwest, and American don't release their earnings stating "we make this operational profit!", they just announce their net income and if there are specials they will sometimes tag that in the headline. Delta in this case is the outlying datapoint.

Not true...take a look at AA's Q1 2017 earnings press release...first bullet point is the pre-tax income...

http://news.aa.com/press-releases/press ... fault.aspx

In fact, AA also guides on pre-tax margins for the subsequent quarter while Delta guides on operating margin...

Nor does JetBlue...Q1 2017 earnings press release...first bullet point goes to Operating income, followed by pre-tax income.....

http://investor.jetblue.com/investor-re ... 25-04-2017

airzona11 wrote:

So did Delta have bad quarter?

Not in an absolute sense, but in relative terms it can be deemed that way. They slightly missed expectations and did much better (ignore DL's spin) in the 2nd quarter of 2016.

panamair wrote:

Not true...take a look at AA's Q1 2017 earnings press release...first bullet point is the pre-tax income...

http://news.aa.com/press-releases/press ... fault.aspx

In fact, AA also guides on pre-tax margins for the subsequent quarter while Delta guides on operating margin...

Nor does JetBlue...Q1 2017 earnings press release...first bullet point goes to Operating income, followed by pre-tax income.....

http://investor.jetblue.com/investor-re ... 25-04-2017

Actually you just proved everybody's point. Compare those releases with DL's news release and graphics on the first post. Night and day difference on what's highlighted and made easily seen.

DL747400 wrote:

http://news.delta.com/delta-air-lines-announces-june-quarter-2017-profit

Amazing "best in company's history" results for DL, generating higher profits in Q2 '17 versus Q2 '16. Congratulations to all DL employees around the world. Must be a great place to work.

It's interesting that the graphic does not include what has been the customary report of on-time percentage and cancellation-free days.

Its an info graph people relax............the point is all of the airlines report in a way to make them appear in the best light. There is a reason there isn't a standard form of how the press releases are written. Delta is doing fine, was the largest pre-profit but salaries and expenses increased as well.......an account would just compare fillings.

WesternDC6B wrote:

Congratulations, Delta. now, reach for $2billion: go to 26" seat pitch and call it Basic Basic Economy.

I know your post is a joke...but it perfectly illustrates the kind of "it's all about the shareholders" mentality that's gotten us pax into this mess of charges for carry-ons, reduced seat pitch, increased pax anger, and reduced customer service.

Has anyone seen a confirmation of how much the April meltdown cost DL? Original estimates were in the $100-150M range, but was hoping they would disclose it as a special write off.

Wingnut

Interesting commentary from Bastian on today's call about ATC reform:

"There’s been a lot of work that’s being done in Washington around the ATC reform topic and yes, we at the table. We are working constructively with Chairman Shuster. We’re not philosophically opposed to privatization for privatization sake. What we want to do is make certain that we have the proper governance, transparency and cost efficiency to drive the reforms needed in the next air traffic control system that gets modernized and we’re in full support of the President’s agenda to invest and modernize the systems."

That seems like a softening of Delta's previous stance on this issue - and seems to bring Delta closer to in line with pretty much the entire rest of the U.S. airline industry.

N757ST wrote:

I understand that delta likes to showboat with their financials, but it's a little bit dishonest when every other carrier is reporting their net income, and Delta is puffing their chest with their earnings and putting a little disclaimer below "pre tax." Obviously it's a great quarter for them, it's just be nice if they reported what thee really made, which is roughly 40% less then that number.

Do you expect anything different? You'll notice they also aren't bragging about 100 days of no cancellations (with mainline only, not in a row, and disregarding special circumstances all in the fine print).

IPFreely wrote:

N757ST wrote:

I understand that delta likes to showboat with their financials, but it's a little bit dishonest when every other carrier is reporting their net income, and Delta is puffing their chest with their earnings and putting a little disclaimer below "pre tax." Obviously it's a great quarter for them, it's just be nice if they reported what thee really made, which is roughly 40% less then that number.

Do you expect anything different? You'll notice they also aren't bragging about 100 days of no cancellations (with mainline only, not in a row, and disregarding special circumstances all in the fine print).

We get it already! They left you behind once! Get over it.

The SEC recently sent letters to several airlines regarding their reporting of non-GAAP financials. Delta supposedly got a letter but apparently the SEC's biggest concern was with American which said they would change the way they report some financials.

It wasn't that long ago so those who are interested can find the articles.

Airline financials can justifiably be reported using multiple metrics but the SEC ultimately gets the final word for publicly traded US airlines (which is nearly all of them)

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DL747400 wrote:

http://news.delta.com/delta-air-lines-announces-june-quarter-2017-profit

Amazing "best in company's history" results for DL, generating higher profits in Q2 '17 versus Q2 '16. Congratulations to all DL employees around the world. Must be a great place to work.

Yeah that's all nice and dandy with big delta making a colorful internet mime to polish up the reality of it,
But let's be real, Wall Street isn't buying it when they looked at the numbers. Which also explains dal stock down today
http://www.businessinsider.com/delta-ea ... 017-2017-7

Delta's hatred for DTW and subsequent exorabent high fares minimized the loss at ATL, MSP, SLC, and the SEA Death Star!

Remember with so few players in the market right now it's not hard to turn a profit. Remember when there was real completion in the market Delta was in bankruptcy court.

klm617 wrote:

Remember with so few players in the market right now it's not hard to turn a profit. Remember when there was real completion in the market Delta was in bankruptcy court.

Only American and Southwest were the only airline not to file bankruptcy after 9/11 travel collapse. What are you talking about?

Atlwarrior wrote:

Only American and Southwest were the only airline not to file bankruptcy after 9/11 travel collapse. What are you talking about?

AS has never filed for bankruptcy in their 85 years...including after 9-11.

Atlwarrior wrote:

klm617 wrote:

Remember with so few players in the market right now it's not hard to turn a profit. Remember when there was real completion in the market Delta was in bankruptcy court.

Only American and Southwest were the only airline not to file bankruptcy after 9/11 travel collapse. What are you talking about?

American and Southwest were the only major airlines not to file bankruptcy after 9/11 travel collapse.

That'll fix it! And American did make it into BK, albeit a bit later than all the others...

hiflyeras wrote:

Atlwarrior wrote:

Only American and Southwest were the only airline not to file bankruptcy after 9/11 travel collapse. What are you talking about?

AS has never filed for bankruptcy in their 85 years...including after 9-11.

Nor did CO. At one point almost every major network carrier was in chapter 11 but CO. It saw various agencies plating completely offline tickets on 005 stock "Just in case"

tpaewr wrote:

Nor did CO. At one point almost every major network carrier was in chapter 11 but CO. It saw various agencies plating completely offline tickets on 005 stock "Just in case"

Um...I tend to believe that the two trips through bankruptcy before that probably had something to do with it. The entire industry was a basket case post-9/11; no one was immune from the effects. Some were just better insulated than others.

alfa164 wrote:

American and Southwest were the only major airlines not to file bankruptcy after 9/11 travel collapse.

That'll fix it! And American did make it into BK, albeit a bit later than all the others...

Technically, Alaska is and has always been (in recent memory, and certainly in the time period in question) very much a "major" airline as defined by DOT. In more popular parlance, it's obviously nowhere near the size of AA or Southwest, but many would definitely say Alaska, in the early 2000s, was certainly "major."

tpaewr wrote:

At one point almost every major network carrier was in chapter 11 but CO.

... and AA. AA was not in bankruptcy at the same time as any other "major network carrier" in the U.S. There was a period of a few weeks in September 2005 when four of the nation's major network carriers were all in Chapter 11 - Delta and Northwest filed within a day of each other, and USAirways emerged from bankruptcy #2 (into the merger with America West) just under two weeks later. However, it is true, between December 2002 and May 2007, at least one - and for most of that period more than one - major U.S. network carrier was in Chapter 11. However, none of that period coincides with AA's bankruptcy which was much later, in November 2011.

flyguy84 wrote:

DL747400 wrote:

http://news.delta.com/delta-air-lines-announces-june-quarter-2017-profit

Amazing "best in company's history" results for DL, generating higher profits in Q2 '17 versus Q2 '16. Congratulations to all DL employees around the world. Must be a great place to work.

Financial results have no bearing on employee moral or relations.

Normally you're right. In this case, $338 million over 80,000 employees is over $4,000 per worker on average bonus for one quarter. Nothing to do with morale?????

AWACSooner wrote:

WesternDC6B wrote:

Congratulations, Delta. now, reach for $2billion: go to 26" seat pitch and call it Basic Basic Economy.

I know your post is a joke...but it perfectly illustrates the kind of "it's all about the shareholders" mentality that's gotten us pax into this mess of charges for carry-ons, reduced seat pitch, increased pax anger, and reduced customer service.

Airlines are today providing a shareholder return, but to my mind, employees are the real beneficiaries of the industry upturn. Airline stocks haven't done that great. This stuff about employees getting 15% of profit as "profit sharing," I think you will find, is unusual. Heads they win, tails shareholders lose. Customers lose either way..

globalcabotage wrote:

Delta's hatred for DTW and subsequent exorabent high fares minimized the loss at ATL, MSP, SLC, and the SEA Death Star!

Am I correct in assuming you are an ex Red Tail who just dislike every thing about Delta? count me as a ex red tail who likes Delta

wingnutmn wrote:

Has anyone seen a confirmation of how much the April meltdown cost DL? Original estimates were in the $100-150M range, but was hoping they would disclose it as a special write off.

Wingnut

From Delta's press release:

Delta delivered these results despite a $125 million negative impact
from the operational disruption following severe storms in Atlanta in early April.

http://s1.q4cdn.com/231238688/files/ear ... Profit.pdf

tpaewr wrote:

hiflyeras wrote:

Atlwarrior wrote:

Only American and Southwest were the only airline not to file bankruptcy after 9/11 travel collapse. What are you talking about?

AS has never filed for bankruptcy in their 85 years...including after 9-11.

Nor did CO. At one point almost every major network carrier was in chapter 11 but CO. It saw various agencies plating completely offline tickets on 005 stock "Just in case"

CO has had several trips into Ch 11 - before 9/11, not after: see filings 1983 and 1990.

CriticalPoint wrote:

DL747400 wrote:

http://news.delta.com/delta-air-lines-announces-june-quarter-2017-profit

Amazing "best in company's history" results for DL, generating higher profits in Q2 '17 versus Q2 '16. Congratulations to all DL employees around the world. Must be a great place to work.

All the Financial writers disagree.
AP: Delta Q2 falls; missed wall street predictions.
Investors Bussiness Daily: Good Enough falls short of whisper number.
Zacks: Delta Airlines Lags Q2 earnings despite PRASM growth.
It is truly amazing the spin Delta puts on everything. I wish United had Deltas PR department.

As you said the financial writers are writing a different picture but much of the headlines are sensationalized. They did miss per share by .02, estimate was 1.68 and actual was 1.66 and they missed top line revenue by 40mil on 10.4B quarterly revenue(the storm cost DL 125mil in q2 revenue). So both metrics were missed by 1.19% per share and .38% on revenue, in the grand scheme of things not much at all on numbers that are a average of best guesses that those same writers come up before the earnings come up. DL stock took a beating earlier in the day yesterday, by close of market the share price was down .98, it was plus .22 in after hours of trading and today as of now its back up by .52. So at it stands right now their share price is off by about .40c from wed close. DL and financial writers are good at spin and they all play the same game. DL adjusted net income was better this year than last, gap net income was worse than last. As always its the job of the marketing department to spin the best light as possible. They did have the highest q2 revenue in history of company and best adjusted net income, so it all depends on what number people focus on.

On a separate note my understanding is that even tho DL is reporting on their financial statements what the net is after tax they are still not going to be paying uncle Sam any actual cash till next year from all the carry over looses they incurred in the early 2000's. Can anyone confirm that?

Flighty wrote:

Airline stocks haven't done that great.

Now there's a comically false statement. Compared to what?

Last Five Years:

DOW: +68%
S&P: +80%
AAL: +100% (since Dec 2013)
LUV: +550%
DAL: +230%
UAL: +400%

You were saying?

You can cherry pick. How about the last 15 years? 20?

Also, where is new profitability going to come from? Nowhere much to go but down... IMO. It's a healthy industry just not an exciting investment. Granted, riding the upswing perfectly, yeah, you got me. Exciting. Time to get out though.