smokeybandit
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Woman dies at SXM after falling from jet blast

Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:38 am

I'm surprised this hasn't happened more often.

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RL777
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Re: Woman dies at SXM after falling from jet blast

Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:43 am

As far as I'm concerned it should be illegal to "ride the fence" or stand behind the jet wash of departing aircraft. The danger of such activity is unforgiving and this situation could've easily been avoided with some stricter rules and common sense. Nevertheless a tragic incident.
 
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cvgComair
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Re: Woman dies at SXM after falling from jet blast

Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:48 am

I am also surprised it does not happen more often. When I was at SXM, the blast when standing on the beach is crazy. I was “smart” and stayed in the water, but the people up against the fence were thrown all about. There is a big rock barrier between the road and beach which can be quite dangerous.
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smokeybandit
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Re: Woman dies at SXM after falling from jet blast

Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:51 am

Stricter rules? No, people would still break the rules. Common sense? Yes.
 
Galwayman
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Re: Woman dies at SXM after falling from jet blast

Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:00 am

In my experience the people not holding on to the fence , those standing further back and those who stand unanchored on the beach get debris in their faces and are blown about

I feel much more comfortable holding on to the fence although it feels like your face is starting to burn . It's just really important to hold onto the fence and not let go

Shame to hear about this death , may she RIP
 
QueenoftheSkies
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Re: Woman dies at SXM after falling from jet blast

Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:05 am

Blast barrier soon to follow without doubt. All it takes is 1 to ruin it for everyone.
 
PDX88
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Re: Woman dies at SXM after falling from jet blast

Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:10 am

I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often, and I'm an avid fence rider. If you let go of the fence the next thing behind you are two concrete curbs. It's very risky, but it would break my heart if they ever banned fence riding. It's an obvious risk and there's two large warning signs on either side of the runway warning of fatal dangers from jet blast.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Woman dies at SXM after falling from jet blast

Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:46 am

Darwin is in charge. Don't hold onto the fence! There are warning signs at Maho Beach to watch out for jet blast.
 
MSPbrandon
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Re: Woman dies at SXM after falling from jet blast

Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:03 am

No cure for stupid.....
 
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aerorobnz
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Re: Woman dies at SXM after falling from jet blast

Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:40 am

Natural selection. You can't ban life. It just makes more people do it because it's banned.
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b764
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Re: Woman dies at SXM after falling from jet blast

Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:16 am

As Ron white says you can't fix stupid.

No doubt we've seen the beginning to the end of the SXM experience. Appreciate it folks.
 
AA737-823
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Re: Woman dies at SXM after falling from jet blast

Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:29 am

b764 wrote:
As Ron white says you can't fix stupid.

No doubt we've seen the beginning to the end of the SXM experience. Appreciate it folks.


Exactly.
As was said up-thread, it only takes one to ruin it for everyone.
I'm sorry this happened, but... I mean, you're standing at the tail pipe of a jet engine for a selfie.
And I'm sure her family will win a huge lawsuit (which is also stupid, but totally the state of life on earth in 2017).
 
Armodeen
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Re: Woman dies at SXM after falling from jet blast

Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:31 am

This was always going to happen eventually. Thus ends the SXM experience I suspect.
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: Woman dies at SXM after falling from jet blast

Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:55 am

This was going to happen. Hopefully even if a blast fence goes up the beach is still public/stays open. Unfortunately I can't feel sorry for her, there are many people who die daily I feel sorry for, she isn't one of them. I can't feel sorry for stupidity. We all make stupid mistakes daily. Most of them doesn't end us up dead.
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chiad
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Re: Woman dies at SXM after falling from jet blast

Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:56 am

QueenoftheSkies wrote:
Blast barrier soon to follow without doubt. All it takes is 1 to ruin it for everyone.


I hope not. People die everywhere for everything.
I am sure more people has died drowning at this beach than falling from jet blasts.

I hear hiking is also really dangerous. Going to amusement parks is ludacris. Don't forget about sunbathing. Death has all occured from these activities.
 
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aerorobnz
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Re: Woman dies at SXM after falling from jet blast

Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:07 am

The lady concerned was a 57yo New Zealand women. In case it is relevant to anyone where she came from.
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atcsundevil
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Re: Woman dies at SXM after falling from jet blast

Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:12 am

The last time this happened, the entire area and I believe even part of the beach was closed for several weeks. A lot of people were worried it would be permanent. That was maybe only four or five years ago. Eventually I think they're going to have to close it, at least around the fence and barrier. It's always been dangerous, but the growing popularity has made into so much more than the handful of thrill-seekers.
 
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Re: Woman dies at SXM after falling from jet blast

Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:24 am

Sad. I pray for her family & her friends. This has got to be hard for them to deal with. I'm also hunkering down, just waiting for certain pundits and the Twitterverse to erupt, claiming that she was the victim, that what happened was the fault of the airlines, the airplane manufacturers and the airport. I hope I'm wrong about that, but my calendar tells me that it is 2017.
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: Woman dies at SXM after falling from jet blast

Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:25 am

aerorobnz wrote:
The lady concerned was a 57yo New Zealand women. In case it is relevant to anyone where she came from.

A bit more information: http://nzh.tw/11890187

V/F
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LoganTheBogan
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Re: Woman dies at SXM after falling from jet blast

Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:41 am

Truly a sad event and definitely preventable.



On the other hand, what an interesting conversation starter at the wake... Being man/air handled by a jet.
Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new.
 
Max Q
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Re: Woman dies at SXM after falling from jet blast

Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:45 am

I said this was going to happen years ago when the a woman was
injured by jet blast from an aircraft positioning too close to the fence.

It's just a matter of time before this happens again and /or a far worse scenario
with an aircraft hitting the fence, for some reason there are Pilots who consider
it clever to approach well below the normal path.



For all of you who self righteously post this is 'Darwinism'
at work you might want to consider this woman had a family
who have to deal with massive grief now.


Sometimes people do need to be protected from themselves,
this needs to end.


Time to build a blast barrier in front of that fence to protect spectators
and modify the threshold to displace it further and / or close the section of beach
under the flight path.


Pilots that deliberately fly a low approach should have certificate enforcement action
taken against them.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
 
Varsity1
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Re: Woman dies at SXM after falling from jet blast

Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:54 am

"Boeing 737 departed for Trinidad."

I wonder which flight killed her.
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hz747300
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Re: Woman dies at SXM after falling from jet blast

Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:54 am

Who are they going to sue though? The only party with any real cash on hand is Boeing and the engine manufacturer.
Keep on truckin'...
 
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TOGA10
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Re: Woman dies at SXM after falling from jet blast

Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:27 am

Max Q wrote:
I said this was going to happen years ago when the a woman was
injured by jet blast from an aircraft positioning too close to the fence.

It's just a matter of time before this happens again and /or a far worse scenario
with an aircraft hitting the fence, for some reason there are Pilots who consider
it clever to approach well below the normal path.



For all of you who self righteously post this is 'Darwinism'
at work you might want to consider this woman had a family
who have to deal with massive grief now.


Sometimes people do need to be protected from themselves,
this needs to end.


Time to build a blast barrier in front of that fence to protect spectators
and modify the threshold to displace it further and / or close the section of beach
under the flight path.


Pilots that deliberately fly a low approach should have certificate enforcement action
taken against them.


If you're too low on an approach, you should do a go-around. Modifying the threshold will have negative impact on runway length (i.e. less suitable for wide bodies) and also it impacts go-around performance requirements, as you get closer to the terrain that is behind the runway.
If you can't foresee the outcome of standing behind a jet engine at full thrust, you shouldn't do it.
What is it these days that we think we need to protect people from everything that might possibly hurt them? Loads of people everyday stand there, it goes wrong once and whooop here come the rule makers. As someone said earlier, more people drowned in that sea, maybe time to close off the see? Or more people got killed in their car ride to the beach, time to ban cars from the island?
I appreciate your point about the family, it is truly horrible and I understand your point, but you can't shield people from everything and indeed common sense is the key word here.
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RWA380
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Re: Woman dies at SXM after falling from jet blast

Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:32 am

All of you have it right. This is first, rather sad. A human being was killed doing something hundreds upon hundreds have done before & for the most part it's been safe, but it's always been dangerous.

The huge danger sign in the picture clearly shows that the government there is asking people not to do this, for this exact reason. Her ignoring it was upon her only. There isn't a case for a lawsuit, she was where she was not supposed to be.

I think it's very easy to be blase about death when the person was knowingly doing something considered dangerous or death defying.
I am sure this wonderful woman was a lovely person, who had many people who love her & she will be missed by family & friends for many years to come, it's just tragic.

People take risks that many of us do not understand, I do it every time I jump out of a plane, base jump or get into a brawl, This lady rolled the dice & it came up snake eyes. She knew it was dangerous, she saw the same warning signs I've seen in the same spot & she took her chance.

She is solely responsible for her own death. Curious, she was willing to overlook what her friends & families lives would be like if she died doing something dangerous, but likely she didn't give it a thought, so I expect most will not feel sorry for her, just for the act.
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seahawk
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Re: Woman dies at SXM after falling from jet blast

Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:32 am

Fence up the whole beach - done. Safety first.
 
Virtual737
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Re: Woman dies at SXM after falling from jet blast

Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:38 am

RWA380 wrote:
All of you have it right. This is first, rather sad. A human being was killed doing something hundreds upon hundreds have done before & for the most part it's been safe, but it's always been dangerous.

The huge danger sign in the picture clearly shows that the government there is asking people not to do this, for this exact reason. Her ignoring it was upon her only. There isn't a case for a lawsuit, she was where she was not supposed to be.

I think it's very easy to be blase about death when the person was knowingly doing something considered dangerous or death defying.
I am sure this wonderful woman was a lovely person, who had many people who love her & she will be missed by family & friends for many years to come, it's just tragic.

People take risks that many of us do not understand, I do it every time I jump out of a plane, base jump or get into a brawl, This lady rolled the dice & it came up snake eyes. She knew it was dangerous, she saw the same warning signs I've seen in the same spot & she took her chance.

She is solely responsible for her own death. Curious, she was willing to overlook what her friends & families lives would be like if she died doing something dangerous, but likely she didn't give it a thought, so I expect most will not feel sorry for her, just for the act.


Great comment.

How boring life would be if it were devoid of all risk. Furthermore, until we finally decide once and for all to stop the claim culture, we have to accept the "safety first" culture that comes with it.
 
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9MMPQ
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Re: Woman dies at SXM after falling from jet blast

Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:41 am

Let's be real, nothing in SXM is going to change. There are probably a couple of hundred people over the course of a day hanging from that fence & the reality is that little happens to the vast majority of them. With the warning signs all around there is no denying people are warned, after this it's on personal responsibility.

But it's a sad case. She maybe got the timing to grab on wrong (seen plenty of people along the fence busy until the last second) or perhaps she lost her balance & let go. There are even some people who have a last second change of heart and try to cross the road back onto the beach or figure they can stand next to the fence without even holding on. Whatever the reason she's been extremely unlucky and it's a sad outcome on a holiday with your loved ones. RIP.
I believe in coincidences. Coincidences happen every day. But I don't trust coincidences.
 
redcap1962
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Re: Woman dies at SXM after falling from jet blast

Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:46 am

A blast barrier would be quite limited in size for obvious reason. Nevertheless a problem for photographers though....
 
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seahawk
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Re: Woman dies at SXM after falling from jet blast

Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:48 am

Does anybody think there will be no legal claims against the authorities after this?
 
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Kickert
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Re: Woman dies at SXM after falling from jet blast

Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:07 am

This article is one of the headlines on The Onion today: http://www.theonion.com/article/family- ... nt-o-56384
 
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Re: Woman dies at SXM after falling from jet blast

Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:22 am

RL777 wrote:
As far as I'm concerned it should be illegal to "ride the fence" or stand behind the jet wash of departing aircraft. The danger of such activity is unforgiving and this situation could've easily been avoided with some stricter rules and common sense. Nevertheless a tragic incident.


Or just don't forbid it and use some common sense to not stand in the jet blast! And if you do, it's at your own risk with all consequences.
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brianK73
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Re: Woman dies at SXM after falling from jet blast

Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:22 am

Something called "a turbine engine failure, where fan and turbine blades detach from their anchors, and exit through the exhaust" is known to occur at take off on occasion.

Let's be careful out there.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Woman dies at SXM after falling from jet blast

Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:43 am

Nothing will change this is a major tourist attraction on a poor island.
Signs everywhere, she either ignored them or decided it was worth the risk, very sad, but her own doing.
 
uta999
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Re: Woman dies at SXM after falling from jet blast

Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:28 am

The jet blast is not the problem here. It is the concrete lane dividers on the road. They are dangerous. There are several videos on Youtube of women being sent flying head first into them.
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brianK73
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Re: Woman dies at SXM after falling from jet blast

Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:47 am

uta999 wrote:
The jet blast is not the problem here. It is the concrete lane dividers on the road. They are dangerous. There are several videos on Youtube of women being sent flying head first into them.


Likewise, a fall from the top of a building does not kill a person; a sudden meeting with the ground does.

We should ban the ground.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Woman dies at SXM after falling from jet blast

Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:48 am

As a saying by a comic in the USA says, "you can't fix stupid", and after this somewhat freak death as well as for security and safety reasons, being in the blast zone cannot continue be be allowed. This would not and is not allowed near any other airport but the road cannot be eliminated as would make it too difficult to get around the island. I suspect the police will have to be posted there on a regular basis to enforce a ban on anyone in the 'danger zone' area of the beach, with fines and even jail time for trespassing in the danger zone, maybe even put up train crossing style barriers for the road when a plane is passing through.
 
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FlyRow
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Re: Woman dies at SXM after falling from jet blast

Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:52 am

seahawk wrote:
Does anybody think there will be no legal claims against the authorities after this?


Happened before, it's called the Jet-Blast Arrest in dutch judicial systems.
Claiming "there are signs, it's not our fault" isn't true when the rules are systematically broken.

However nothing has happened since the courts decission.

In Dutch: https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jetblast-arrest


Mrs Hartmann is watching the plane as a tourist at the fence of Princess Juliana Airport on St. Maarten. Despite a warning sign, there are more tourists and plane spotters. When a Boeing 747 opens the jet engines wide, Mrs Hartmann is thrown back to the rocks by a jet blast back to the rocks.
The Supreme Council introduces a new criterion: he considers (or) of decisive significance or is to be expected that placing the signs leads to a trade or failure to avoid the danger. It is not an actual judgment, but a normative judgment. The question is therefore whether the signs should normally be effective. The Court judges on the basis of the factual findings by the court about the sign that the court did not adequately state that the criterion was met. The signs were not exactly concrete.
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OA940
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Re: Woman dies at SXM after falling from jet blast

Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:00 am

Is it bad that I laughed? I think it's bad that I laughed.
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andrefranca
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Re: Woman dies at SXM after falling from jet blast

Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:17 am

Image

don't do it!
Andre F. :blockhead:
 
ben175
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Re: Woman dies at SXM after falling from jet blast

Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:41 pm

I've literally just flown halfway across the world from Australia to visit SXM on Sunday. If they close the beach because of one person's stupid actions, I will be furious. RIP, but this was entirely her fault.
 
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777GE90
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Re: Woman dies at SXM after falling from jet blast

Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:49 pm

QueenoftheSkies wrote:
Blast barrier soon to follow without doubt. All it takes is 1 to ruin it for everyone.


Agreed, it's a shame this has happened as I am sure there will be measures put in place that would ruin the SXM experience.

RIP to the woman.

OA940 wrote:
Is it bad that I laughed? I think it's bad that I laughed.


Ye, come on. It's still a human life, that woman meant something to a lot of people and she has been in this world for 57 years. People make mistakes and poor judgement calls all the time and we are all equally prone of making mistakes that may seem just as stupid but could ultimately cost our lives.

She could have been someone's mother, sister, aunt, child, etc. Imagine if she was your mother.
Image
 
DerekCZ
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Re: Woman dies at SXM after falling from jet blast

Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:06 pm

I always wanted to go there because of the opportunity to get so close to aircraft. I hope they won't close it, I say let the natural selection do its thing.
#etopskilledquads
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: Woman dies at SXM after falling from jet blast

Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:10 pm

Definitely see a blast fence going up, my hope and wish is that the beach remains open/public. It would be devastating to the bar next to it!
RIP McDonnell Douglas
 
RL757PVD
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Re: Woman dies at SXM after falling from jet blast

Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:25 pm

A blast fence is not possible without pushing the threshold further back due to approach slope requirements

As someone who does airport layout and development plans for a living (and owning a timeshare next to this beach) I have often thought about what would/could be done in response to or prevention of an incident there.

Someone pointed out earlier that the road is actually the culprit here and I believe that 100%. The road is the greatest safety hazard for not only injuries like this but also risks for a higher profile vehicle being clipped or flipped (blast) by an aircraft,

The road in front of maho beach should be closed and replaced with a road that parallels the runway by Karachter beach. that connects that now cut off area to simpson bay rather than the Maho plaza (pedestrian access can remain)
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
richierich
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Re: Woman dies at SXM after falling from jet blast

Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:34 pm

uta999 wrote:
The jet blast is not the problem here. It is the concrete lane dividers on the road. They are dangerous. There are several videos on Youtube of women being sent flying head first into them.


I agree with you 100%, but those barriers provide a necessary boundary between the roadway and the beach. They are not going anywhere.
I really hope this isn't the end of Maho Beach and fence riding (as we know it), but so be it. It's not what it used to be since the B747s stopped service SXM anyway.

Unlike some, I do feel compassion for the woman who died. She woke up, went to the beach for some fun, and didn't expect to be in situation that resulted in life or death injuries...and neither did her family. I can't even imagine the pain they are going through.
None shall pass!!!!
 
richierich
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Re: Woman dies at SXM after falling from jet blast

Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:37 pm

RL757PVD wrote:
The road in front of maho beach should be closed and replaced with a road that parallels the runway by Karachter beach. that connects that now cut off area to simpson bay rather than the Maho plaza (pedestrian access can remain)


Wouldn't a stop light work to prevent road traffic using the road when there is takeoff/landing traffic? Not sure who would control it, but this is surely a low-tech solution that has to be better than building a new road in an area plagued by flooding.
None shall pass!!!!
 
RL757PVD
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Re: Woman dies at SXM after falling from jet blast

Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:54 pm

richierich wrote:
RL757PVD wrote:
The road in front of maho beach should be closed and replaced with a road that parallels the runway by Karachter beach. that connects that now cut off area to simpson bay rather than the Maho plaza (pedestrian access can remain)


Wouldn't a stop light work to prevent road traffic using the road when there is takeoff/landing traffic? Not sure who would control it, but this is surely a low-tech solution that has to be better than building a new road in an area plagued by flooding.


I dont think the traffic signal would do anything, it gets congested at times and some cars have gotten stuck behind aircraft from not being able to get away (loud honking usually precedes this)

Moving the road would would get rid of the concrete that people are thrown into on the jet blast and the road on the south side along the airport fence would be at the same elevation as the runway.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
dfwjim1
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Re: Woman dies at SXM after falling from jet blast

Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:55 pm

How about if the the airport authority erected a concrete wall at this site to replace the guardrail and fence? Make it of such construction and height that it can not be scaled by humans.
 
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LoganTheBogan
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Re: Woman dies at SXM after falling from jet blast

Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:59 pm

Judging the way 2017 has been running, her family is probably going to sue engine manufacturer, aircraft, airport or airline despite them having nothing to do with it.
Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new.

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Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos