Any thoughts on some new potential routes that could come out of CLT's Concourse A Expansion? Since most of the gates will be for airlines outside of AA, here are my thoughts:

B6
CLT-FLL
CLT-MCO

WN
CLT-FLL
CLT-STL

DL
CLT-BOS

F9
CLT-LAS
CLT-CVG

Obviously all of these won't happen but just some ideas. I'd love to hear your thoughts!

I could see UA CLT-SFO happening on a daily basis. I could also see ViaAir adding another EAS route.

In addition, Southwest could possibly add nonstop service from CLT to Austin, Indianapolis, Kansas City, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Milwaukee, New Orleans, Oakland, Phoenix, and Washington Reagan National (if Southwest can get extra slots at DCA).

I know the relationship's cooling off, but I wonder if AS would be interested in starting CLT to access more of the Southeast.

Sightseer wrote:

I know the relationship's cooling off, but I wonder if AS would be interested in starting CLT to access more of the Southeast.

There is possibly enough demand for Alaska to add nonstop service from CLT to SEA, SFO, and LAX as there is significant demand for flights to these 3 west coast destinations out of CLT and as there is no nonstop service out of CLT to destinations west of SLC on airlines other than AA.

How about NK?
CLT-FLL
CLT-ORD
CLT-BDL

Is concourse A maxed out? Everybody not named AA is at 100% gate utilization and isn't growing because of that and only that?

US Airways used to have seasonal CLT-ANC. Maybe that will start again.

kcrwflyer wrote:

Is concourse A maxed out? Everybody not named AA is at 100% gate utilization and isn't growing because of that and only that?

I think it pretty much is. The only gates that aren't at max capacity are Jetblue's A4 and A8 which is utilized by Frontier and Air Canada. But the Charlotte market is growing at an alarming rate and the demand will surely increase over the next 2-3 years. UA and DL pretty much max out their gates.

CLTFlyer9 wrote:

kcrwflyer wrote:

Is concourse A maxed out? Everybody not named AA is at 100% gate utilization and isn't growing because of that and only that?

I think it pretty much is. The only gates that aren't at max capacity are Jetblue's A4 and A8 which is utilized by Frontier and Air Canada. But the Charlotte market is growing at an alarming rate and the demand will surely increase over the next 2-3 years. UA and DL pretty much max out their gates.

DL is running 34 flights out of 4 gates (8.5 departures a day); UA is running 22 flights/day out of four gates and doesn't really have any high-constrained times right now.

It's 9 gates coming online right? I'd expect DL to move to six gates minimum; UA I could see staying at four but maybe picking up a fifth for future growth. WN at 1 gate for 8 flights seems like a logical add for a gate.

US never flew CLT-ANC. They did however fly PHL-ANC for a couple of seasons. Are you thinking of HNL? They did CLT-HNL for a while.

Sightseer wrote:

I know the relationship's cooling off, but I wonder if AS would be interested in starting CLT to access more of the Southeast.

One damper is that they could not codeshAAre with AA into CLT from any AS hub. (As I recall no hub to hub codesharing was a condition of the merger being approved.)

I am no seeing any serious expansion @ CLT for anyone other than AA. AA is taking over most of the existing Concourse A when A-North is complete so there will still not be much room for expansion. I can see some additional frequency on existing routes and maybe DL picking up another gate but that is it.

diverdave wrote:

Sightseer wrote:

I know the relationship's cooling off, but I wonder if AS would be interested in starting CLT to access more of the Southeast.

One damper is that they could not codeshAAre with AA into CLT from any AS hub. (As I recall no hub to hub codesharing was a condition of the merger being approved.)

Right now booking AS to CLT means a stop in ORD MCI DFW or STL when I've looked. A nonstop would give AS one-stop acces to the Southeast, Mid-Atlantic, lots of Caribbean and Florida.

CXA330300 wrote:

I could see UA CLT-SFO happening on a daily basis.

Absolutely. They can try to siphon a bit of bank traffic.
.

jplatts wrote:

In addition, Southwest could possibly add nonstop service from CLT to Austin, Indianapolis, Kansas City, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Milwaukee, New Orleans, Oakland, Phoenix, and Washington Reagan National (if Southwest can get extra slots at DCA).

The only one I can see is Las Vegas but Charlotte hasn't responded to Southwest like I thought we would. US/AA loyalty (and that route map) go deep here maybe a second DAL.
F9 might add a flight or two to another spot (maybe LAS?)
I would love to see a VX branded airplane in Charlotte before they go under...but it probably won't happen :/

ahj2000 wrote:

Right now booking AS to CLT means a stop in ORD MCI DFW or STL when I've looked. A nonstop would give AS one-stop acces to the Southeast, Mid-Atlantic, lots of Caribbean and Florida.

If AA is willing to allow AS to codeshare on those Southeast/Mid-Atlantic/etc flights from CLT. AS/AA are playing nice now, but signs are pointing to their relationship cooling and I'm not sure in the future AA will be as receptive towards the growing AS piggybacking off their fortress hubs.

CXA330300 wrote:

I could see UA CLT-SFO happening on a daily basis. I could also see ViaAir adding another EAS route.

I'm surprised this hasn't happened already. AA has a lock on CLT-West Coast and I could see UA, F9, or even AS challenging them on it. A lot of west coast companies already have East Coast operations here in Charlotte (ex. Wells Fargo) and more are moving in.

ahj2000 wrote:

diverdave wrote:

Sightseer wrote:

I know the relationship's cooling off, but I wonder if AS would be interested in starting CLT to access more of the Southeast.

One damper is that they could not codeshAAre with AA into CLT from any AS hub. (As I recall no hub to hub codesharing was a condition of the merger being approved.)

Right now booking AS to CLT means a stop in ORD MCI DFW or STL when I've looked. A nonstop would give AS one-stop acces to the Southeast, Mid-Atlantic, lots of Caribbean and Florida.

CXA330300 wrote:

I could see UA CLT-SFO happening on a daily basis.

Absolutely. They can try to siphon a bit of bank traffic.
.

jplatts wrote:

In addition, Southwest could possibly add nonstop service from CLT to Austin, Indianapolis, Kansas City, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Milwaukee, New Orleans, Oakland, Phoenix, and Washington Reagan National (if Southwest can get extra slots at DCA).

The only one I can see is Las Vegas but Charlotte hasn't responded to Southwest like I thought we would. US/AA loyalty (and that route map) go deep here maybe a second DAL.
F9 might add a flight or two to another spot (maybe LAS?)
I would love to see a VX branded airplane in Charlotte before they go under...but it probably won't happen :/

I could definitely see F9 adding on additional routes and frequencies. LAS would be first choice along with TPA and FLL. CLT-Florida is very underserved outside of AA.

Polot wrote:

ahj2000 wrote:

Right now booking AS to CLT means a stop in ORD MCI DFW or STL when I've looked. A nonstop would give AS one-stop acces to the Southeast, Mid-Atlantic, lots of Caribbean and Florida.

If AA is willing to allow AS to codeshare on those Southeast/Mid-Atlantic/etc flights from CLT. AS/AA are playing nice now, but signs are pointing to their relationship cooling and I'm not sure in the future AA will be as receptive towards the growing AS piggybacking off their fortress hubs.

I don't think AA would have a problem with AS adding pax to CLT-SAV/JAX/ORF/RIC/TYS and the like. Same as AS enjoys the AA* codeshare on SEA to Alaska and the PNW. I fully expect them to go full-on competitor on competing sectors, but they aren't just going to shut each other out of their respective hubs when the alternative is to not carry those pax.

With some of the AA/AS benefits rolled back codeshares becomes less attractive to an AS or AA loyalist

CLTFlyer9 wrote:

I could definitely see F9 adding on additional routes and frequencies. LAS would be first choice along with TPA and FLL. CLT-Florida is very underserved outside of AA.

But AA serves CLT-Florida extensively. To the point where there probably isn't a ton of low hanging fruit to pick. There is more capacity on CLT-LAS than BOS-LAS & IAD/DCA-LAS

DL BOS-CLT is an interesting idea for the banking corp customers.. AA would fight hard...they practically run a shuttle and AA still,has a strong base in BOS.

Would sure love to see AA restart YOW-CLT.

How many of the new gates will be CUTE or are already CUTE?

So, I know this is really almost outside the realm of possibility, but if Hawaiian and JetBlue expand, further, their codeshare ops, I could see a possible nonstop HNL-CLT flight on Hawaiian that connects with JetBlue operations out of CLT. This would be a second East Coast destination for Hawaiian, and would be, possibly, a feeder for those in the south (Florida, S. Carolina, Georgia) to have a one-stop flight to Honolulu from their part of the world. This would also be convenient for those flying to the east coast during the winter as Charlotte tends to not get as socked in, as frequently as, say New York does, at that time of year.

Again, out of the box, and I know this will be met with a "fat chance" but at least it is out there.

ahj2000 wrote:

Polot wrote:

ahj2000 wrote:

Right now booking AS to CLT means a stop in ORD MCI DFW or STL when I've looked. A nonstop would give AS one-stop acces to the Southeast, Mid-Atlantic, lots of Caribbean and Florida.

If AA is willing to allow AS to codeshare on those Southeast/Mid-Atlantic/etc flights from CLT. AS/AA are playing nice now, but signs are pointing to their relationship cooling and I'm not sure in the future AA will be as receptive towards the growing AS piggybacking off their fortress hubs.

I don't think AA would have a problem with AS adding pax to CLT-SAV/JAX/ORF/RIC/TYS and the like. Same as AS enjoys the AA* codeshare on SEA to Alaska and the PNW. I fully expect them to go full-on competitor on competing sectors, but they aren't just going to shut each other out of their respective hubs when the alternative is to not carry those pax.

Except the alternative for AA is not not carring the pax. The alternative is those would be AS pax hop on one of AA's 4? daily SEA-CLT flights. AA code sharing on SEA-Alaska/PNW opens up more destinations and flights for them, and gives the much smaller AS much more feed. AA frankly doesn't benefit all that much from AS code sharing on their southeast flights. AS won't add much feed for those flights and will just take potential AA customers.

KanaHawaii wrote:

So, I know this is really almost outside the realm of possibility, but if Hawaiian and JetBlue expand, further, their codeshare ops, I could see a possible nonstop HNL-CLT flight on Hawaiian that connects with JetBlue operations out of CLT. This would be a second East Coast destination for Hawaiian, and would be, possibly, a feeder for those in the south (Florida, S. Carolina, Georgia) to have a one-stop flight to Honolulu from their part of the world. This would also be convenient for those flying to the east coast during the winter as Charlotte tends to not get as socked in, as frequently as, say New York does, at that time of year.

Again, out of the box, and I know this will be met with a "fat chance" but at least it is out there.

What JetBlue feed in CLT? The only places they fly from there is JFK and BOS. B6 is tiny in CLT, they only have 4 flights a day all on E190s.

Those in the South already have a onestop route to HNL via DL/ATL.

I could see DL starting CLT-SEA if AS doesn't. (Yeah, I get that AA has a lock on traffic to the West Coast originating in CLT.)

When the Concourse extension opens, all OAL gates will be CUTE.

ahj2000 wrote:

jplatts wrote:

In addition, Southwest could possibly add nonstop service from CLT to Austin, Indianapolis, Kansas City, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Milwaukee, New Orleans, Oakland, Phoenix, and Washington Reagan National (if Southwest can get extra slots at DCA).

The only one I can see is Las Vegas but Charlotte hasn't responded to Southwest like I thought we would. US/AA loyalty (and that route map) go deep here maybe a second DAL.

MCI, STL, and MSY are all in between 2 AA hub airports (DFW and ORD) and Southwest is the dominant carrier at all 3 of these airports. In addition, there are companies headquartered in Kansas City, St. Louis, and New Orleans that have a presence in the Charlotte area, and there is business travel to Charlotte by companies headquartered in Kansas City, St. Louis, and New Orleans. AA does not have a hub in Kansas City, St. Louis, or New Orleans, and there is also significant demand for flights to Charlotte from all 3 of these cities. Southwest might be able to add nonstop service to CLT from MCI, STL, and MSY with the significant demand for flights to CLT from these 3 airports and with business travel to CLT by passengers who live in Kansas, Missouri, southern Illinois, and Louisiana.

Southwest might be able to do well on CLT-PHX nonstop service if it adds CLT-PHX nonstop service since PHX is one of the top destinations from CLT, since Southwest has a significant presence at PHX, since these is significant demand for PHX-CLT nonstop flights, and since there are Phoenix-based companies that have a presence in the Charlotte area.

There is room for a 2nd airline to do nonstop service from CLT to the west coast as AA is currently the only airline to have nonstop service from CLT to the west coast and since there is significant demand for nonstop flights from CLT to the west coast. Southwest might be able to possibly add nonstop service from CLT to LAX and SAN since there is limited competition on flights between CLT and the west coast.

jplatts wrote:

Southwest might be able to do well on CLT-PHX nonstop service if it adds CLT-PHX nonstop service since PHX is one of the top destinations from CLT, since Southwest has a significant presence at PHX, since these is significant demand for PHX-CLT nonstop flights, and since there are Phoenix-based companies that have a presence in the Charlotte area.

There is room for a 2nd airline to do nonstop service from CLT to the west coast as AA is currently the only airline to have nonstop service from CLT to the west coast and since there is significant demand for nonstop flights from CLT to the west coast. Southwest might be able to possibly add nonstop service from CLT to LAX and SAN since there is limited competition on flights between CLT and the west coast.

CLT-PHX is one of CLT's top destinations because of AA. US's two largest hubs that remain with AA and 7-8 flights/day to connect the mass of AA passengers.

If I read the data correctly
Q4 2016 PDEW **potentially a bit skewed with some slow periods bolstered by high traffic holidays in Q4
CLT-SAN ~160
CLT-LAS ~290
CLT-SEA - ~160
CLT-SFO (area) - ~365
CLT-PHX ~250
CLT-SLC ~160

Comparison:
PHL-PHX ~ 475
PHL-SAN ~350
PHL-SLC ~155
PHL-SEA ~295
PHL-SFO (area) - ~760

Obviously WN, DL, or UA flights would not simply rely on the local market and connect people through their hubs. However, considering how much capacity AA has in these markets coupled with the lower O&D it is tough for any other airline to challenge. That's what makes a mega hub.

jplatts wrote:

ahj2000 wrote:

jplatts wrote:

In addition, Southwest could possibly add nonstop service from CLT to Austin, Indianapolis, Kansas City, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Milwaukee, New Orleans, Oakland, Phoenix, and Washington Reagan National (if Southwest can get extra slots at DCA).

The only one I can see is Las Vegas but Charlotte hasn't responded to Southwest like I thought we would. US/AA loyalty (and that route map) go deep here maybe a second DAL.

MCI, STL, and MSY are all in between 2 AA hub airports (DFW and ORD) and Southwest is the dominant carrier at all 3 of these airports. In addition, there are companies headquartered in Kansas City, St. Louis, and New Orleans that have a presence in the Charlotte area, and there is business travel to Charlotte by companies headquartered in Kansas City, St. Louis, and New Orleans. AA does not have a hub in Kansas City, St. Louis, or New Orleans, and there is also significant demand for flights to Charlotte from all 3 of these cities. Southwest might be able to add nonstop service to CLT from MCI, STL, and MSY with the significant demand for flights to CLT from these 3 airports and with business travel to CLT by passengers who live in Kansas, Missouri, southern Illinois, and Louisiana.

Southwest might be able to do well on CLT-PHX nonstop service if it adds CLT-PHX nonstop service since PHX is one of the top destinations from CLT, since Southwest has a significant presence at PHX, since these is significant demand for PHX-CLT nonstop flights, and since there are Phoenix-based companies that have a presence in the Charlotte area.

There is room for a 2nd airline to do nonstop service from CLT to the west coast as AA is currently the only airline to have nonstop service from CLT to the west coast and since there is significant demand for nonstop flights from CLT to the west coast. Southwest might be able to possibly add nonstop service from CLT to LAX and SAN since there is limited competition on flights between CLT and the west coast.

I used to think STL-CLT on WN made sense until I saw the PDEW numbers. I also didn't realize how many seats AA has on that route. Yes, some of that is STL people connecting through CLT and yes, WN could connect people from CLT through STL but I don't see it happening. There is still a decent AA passenger base in STL so I think just AA on it is enough. They are running 6x daily with 4 mainline. Now that I say this they will probably add it but I'm doubtful.

USAirALB wrote:

US never flew CLT-ANC. They did however fly PHL-ANC for a couple of seasons. Are you thinking of HNL? They did CLT-HNL for a while.

No im not. On one of their old route maps it has CLT-ANC on there

SyracuseAvGeek wrote:

USAirALB wrote:

US never flew CLT-ANC. They did however fly PHL-ANC for a couple of seasons. Are you thinking of HNL? They did CLT-HNL for a while.

No im not. On one of their old route maps it has CLT-ANC on there

At what time? I've done some digging and I can't fond anything about this service.
Frequency? A/c?

They never flew CLT-ANC.

US never had a presence in ANC until the HP merger, when they flew ANC-LAS/PHX. They added PHL-ANC with a 752 for two seasons a couple of years back.

Does anyone know how CLT-BNA is doing? I know it's new, but seems like an oddball to me, unless WN loyal pax connect to flights from BNA westward.

USAirALB wrote:

They never flew CLT-ANC.

US never had a presence in ANC until the HP merger, when they flew ANC-LAS/PHX. They added PHL-ANC with a 752 for two seasons a couple of years back.

My brother was a pilot for US. I just asked him, he said he's pretty certain CLT-ANC never happened.

CLTFlyer9 wrote:

Any thoughts on some new potential routes that could come out of CLT's Concourse A Expansion? Since most of the gates will be for airlines outside of AA, here are my thoughts:

B6
CLT-FLL
CLT-MCO

WN
CLT-FLL
CLT-STL

DL
CLT-BOS

F9
CLT-LAS
CLT-CVG

Obviously all of these won't happen but just some ideas. I'd love to hear your thoughts!

More than anything I'd love to see BA come back into CLT. The airline variety there is pretty boring, and I'd love to see CLT get routine service on the 787 or 777. Sadly I don't see this happening though

How about BA? They serve more us cities than any other international airline....

[threeid][/threeid][quote="AntonioMartin"]How about BA? They serve more us cities than any other international airline....[/]
I doubt it. They already "have" 2x a day with the JV, so why would they need another?

ahj2000 wrote:

[threeid][/threeid]

AntonioMartin wrote:

How about BA? They serve more us cities than any other international airline....[/]
I doubt it. They already "have" 2x a day with the JV, so why would they need another?

That is true....the avid aircraft spotter in me hates JV's, necessary as they are in today's airlines economic picture....(not that I am in Charlotte, I have never even been there but it would be great for Charlotte spotters if BA flew there with their metal)

The days when airlines had to use their own metal to reach any city they wanted to are long gone I guess lol..

usairways85 wrote:

With some of the AA/AS benefits rolled back codeshares becomes less attractive to an AS or AA loyalist

CLTFlyer9 wrote:

I could definitely see F9 adding on additional routes and frequencies. LAS would be first choice along with TPA and FLL. CLT-Florida is very underserved outside of AA.

But AA serves CLT-Florida extensively. To the point where there probably isn't a ton of low hanging fruit to pick. There is more capacity on CLT-LAS than BOS-LAS & IAD/DCA-LAS

Florida routes tend to be low yield. I would expect AA to add HVN-CLT when the court case involving the runway upgrade is done. They currently serve HVN-PHL with Dash-8's.

ayoungblood2 wrote:

CLTFlyer9 wrote:

Any thoughts on some new potential routes that could come out of CLT's Concourse A Expansion? Since most of the gates will be for airlines outside of AA, here are my thoughts:

B6
CLT-FLL
CLT-MCO

WN
CLT-FLL
CLT-STL

DL
CLT-BOS

F9
CLT-LAS
CLT-CVG

Obviously all of these won't happen but just some ideas. I'd love to hear your thoughts!

More than anything I'd love to see BA come back into CLT. The airline variety there is pretty boring, and I'd love to see CLT get routine service on the 787 or 777. Sadly I don't see this happening though

I could see AA using 777's on the LHR route only because I don't believe they have anything else going to LHR so it would help in LHR to consolidate parts and equipment and not have to have 330 stuff for the Legacy US hub flights.

I could see increased AC YYZ frequency and mainline service with CSeries aircraft when they are received in a few years. The route is currently served by AC's Regional(s) as Air Canada Express with CRJs.