blockski wrote:

If you wanted to staff up on customer service in the US, then you actually have to hire on the basis of customer service - not age, not sex.

The real reason things are the way they are in the US airline business is the presence of unions, not the US laws. If there was no union, wages would drop, workers would have a lot less protections than they now have, and there would be a lot more turnover than we now see.

blockski wrote:

TC957 wrote:

Whilst AAB's views are undiplomatic and typically outspoken for sure, he says it as he sees it.
If YOU were looking for staff in a public service position for your company and interviewing a range of suitably qualified candidates ranging from keen, well-made up, pretty mid-twenties lasses to chubby been-there-done-that-know-it-all older candidates, what would you do ?

AAB has the luxury of being "outspoken" in Qatar. If he were operating in the United States, his comments would likely get him sued for discrimination. We have legal protections against discrimination on the basis of age and sex, and for good reason.

If you wanted to staff up on customer service in the US, then you actually have to hire on the basis of customer service - not age, not sex.

One could argue that they DID hire on the basis of customer service given they win awards for it across platforms while the US3 don't.

What a deplorable statement from this rotten little man.

Flight attendants with longevity are a testament to how they are treated by their employer.

Is it me or does he look really tired and worn out in that picture? Like he has not had a full night of sleep since the airspace/destinations/electronic devices issues began.

Sad to see the sexist and ageist comments and attitudes of people on here. One of my best and enjoyable experiences with a FA was on one of UA's first 787 flights, one I had booked specifically to fly on the Dreamliner. She was obviously senior in sCO, and very well travelled and cultured, having enjoyed the benefits and privileges of the job over many years. It was fun to hear of her travel experiences over the years. She loved French wine and gourmet coffee. I'm a coffee snob, so we talked about that a lot. She commiserated with my disappointment at the lack of an espresso machine on the 787. She also shared my enthusiasm for their new bird (aside from the lack of espresso), and in her case, it came from the opportunity it offered her to try something new and different after many years in the same planes. When I asked if I could peak inside the cockpit after the flight, she said she had already told the pilots already about me and they wanted me to join them in the cockpit after we landed. I was given a lovely tour of the airplane and even got to sit in the left seat.

Old doesn't have to mean grumpy and disgruntled. It can also mean a level of sophistication and classiness that only maturity and the experience of spending decades traveling the world can provide.

Revelation wrote:

blockski wrote:

If you wanted to staff up on customer service in the US, then you actually have to hire on the basis of customer service - not age, not sex.

The real reason things are the way they are in the US airline business is the presence of unions, not the US laws. If there was no union, wages would drop, workers would have a lot less protections than they now have, and there would be a lot more turnover than we now see.

I'm not offering an explanation for why things are the way they are. I am saying that if AAB were a CEO of a US company, that company would be sued (and lose) for employment discrimination based on his comments. If AAB wants to talk about customer service, then he can do so directly instead of talking about age or about gender.

CanadaFair wrote:

blockski wrote:

If you wanted to staff up on customer service in the US, then you actually have to hire on the basis of customer service - not age, not sex.

What about religions? know some Muslims refused employment based on it, and told sternly never to apply there again.

In the US, religion is also a protected class, as is national origin. If a Muslim were refused employment based on their religion in the United States, they would have grounds for legal action.

Last year I flew QR & AS back to back - other than the older demographic of AS's crew I don't see any other difference in terms of service or crew conduct.

I did however get a hot chicken dinner spilled on me by a QR cabin crew on my return flight...

Hello all, longtime lurker firstime poster,
It's a sexist and ageist comment he made, but considering his part of the world im not at all surprised. Also, he is just giving the US3 ammunition against QR, but maybe he doesn"t care.

LAXintl wrote:

His comments might not be politically correct, but he does have valid point.

Ultimately, airlines are a service industry, but the US because of various reasons (union contracts, labor laws, etc) has fallen in a trap of carrying indeed an older, and yes lets be honest often less enthused FA work force.
Also unlike other US travel industries, (lets think of top end hotel front desk staff) US FA's tend not to age out and move on to other jobs, so they sit doing the same job their entire careers.

Unlike many top global carriers which can employ FA's on fixed terms, with the ability to maintain youth, appearance, and enthusiasm, US airlines are almost jobs for life so long as employee does not commit some serious violation. There is a reason why airlines like SQ, VS, etc win best cabin service awards.

So riddle me this?? Are YOU willing to pay MORE for your ticket when those same "OLD" flight attendants sue the Drawers off the USA Carriers for AGE Discrimination??

LAXintl wrote:

His comments might not be politically correct, but he does have valid point.

Ultimately, airlines are a service industry, but the US because of various reasons (union contracts, labor laws, etc) has fallen in a trap of carrying indeed an older, and yes lets be honest often less enthused FA work force.
Also unlike other US travel industries, (lets think of top end hotel front desk staff) US FA's tend not to age out and move on to other jobs, so they sit doing the same job their entire careers.

Unlike many top global carriers which can employ FA's on fixed terms, with the ability to maintain youth, appearance, and enthusiasm, US airlines are almost jobs for life so long as employee does not commit some serious violation. There is a reason why airlines like SQ, VS, etc win best cabin service awards.

Well, DL is NOT Union. Let's not mistake everyone as having a negative experience. DL IS different, in many, many, ways than ole, AA, and UA.

tjh8402 wrote:

Sad to see the sexist and ageist comments and attitudes of people on here. One of my best and enjoyable experiences with a FA was on one of UA's first 787 flights, one I had booked specifically to fly on the Dreamliner. She was obviously senior in sCO, and very well travelled and cultured, having enjoyed the benefits and privileges of the job over many years. It was fun to hear of her travel experiences over the years. She loved French wine and gourmet coffee. I'm a coffee snob, so we talked about that a lot. She commiserated with my disappointment at the lack of an espresso machine on the 787. She also shared my enthusiasm for their new bird (aside from the lack of espresso), and in her case, it came from the opportunity it offered her to try something new and different after many years in the same planes. When I asked if I could peak inside the cockpit after the flight, she said she had already told the pilots already about me and they wanted me to join them in the cockpit after we landed. I was given a lovely tour of the airplane and even got to sit in the left seat.

Old doesn't have to mean grumpy and disgruntled. It can also mean a level of sophistication and classiness that only maturity and the experience of spending decades traveling the world can provide.

Despite what we hear or read today most FA's AND Crews are GREAT!!!. YAY to this experience!!!.

goboeing wrote:

What a deplorable statement from this rotten little man.

Flight attendants with longevity are a testament to how they are treated by their employer.

Is it me or does he look really tired and worn out in that picture? Like he has not had a full night of sleep since the airspace/destinations/electronic devices issues began.

EXACTLY!!!, Look who's making the remarks. He IS SAD. I believe those carriers hate Gay FA's too, would go with the territory, they must have a lot of great FA's that are
under the don't ask don't tell policy there.

I used to deliver gendecs/general declaration and all cargo papers to AA international flights in MIA. Included are crew list, cargo manifest, copy of all airbills, dangerous goods paperwork, etc. In the mid 1990s, AA had many senior FAs doing ORY, LHR and MAD plus former Braniff/Eastern crews on South America. I met many, many 20-30-40 year people who loved their jobs, looked like a million, and were the most charming people in the room. They trained and learned in the 50s, 60s and 70s. The later people I don't think had that type of training which included looks, attitude, smile, and charm. It really is just a new era, the oldest grannies may be the best.

goboeing wrote:

What a deplorable statement from this rotten little man.

Flight attendants with longevity are a testament to how they are treated by their employer.

Is it me or does he look really tired and worn out in that picture? Like he has not had a full night of sleep since the airspace/destinations/electronic devices issues began.

I don't care for his abrasive style. Nevertheless your personal opinion of the man and your personal attacks on him mask the fact that you are quite mistaken. "Flight attendants with longevity are a testament to how they are treated by their employer. ", but it is not a testament on how they treat their customers, which IMHO, is more important.

How come nobody is talking about the safety risks in an emergency? Wouldn't a more able bodied FA, male or female for that matter be able to help evacuate the aircraft, have more stamina, sustain better under smoke inhalation etc. I mean these are all medially accepted facts that a 24 year old (all other thing being equal) can physically perform better than a 55 year old .... right?

jr762 wrote:

I used to deliver gendecs/general declaration and all cargo papers to AA international flights in MIA. Included are crew list, cargo manifest, copy of all airbills, dangerous goods paperwork, etc. In the mid 1990s, AA had many senior FAs doing ORY, LHR and MAD plus former Braniff/Eastern crews on South America. I met many, many 20-30-40 year people who loved their jobs, looked like a million, and were the most charming people in the room. They trained and learned in the 50s, 60s and 70s. The later people I don't think had that type of training which included looks, attitude, smile, and charm. It really is just a new era, the oldest grannies may be the best.

Yes, this has been my experience too!.

Varsity1 wrote:

Balaguru wrote:

goboeing wrote:

What a deplorable statement from this rotten little man.

Flight attendants with longevity are a testament to how they are treated by their employer.

Is it me or does he look really tired and worn out in that picture? Like he has not had a full night of sleep since the airspace/destinations/electronic devices issues began.

I don't care for his abrasive style. Nevertheless your personal opinion of the man and your personal attacks on him mask the fact that you are quite mistaken. "Flight attendants with longevity are a testament to how they are treated by their employer. ", but it is not a testament on how they treat their customers, which IMHO, is more important.

How come nobody is talking about the safety risks in an emergency? Wouldn't a more able bodied FA, male or female for that matter be able to help evacuate the aircraft, have more stamina, sustain better under smoke inhalation etc. I mean these are all medially accepted facts that a 24 year old (all other thing being equal) can physically perform better than a 55 year old .... right?

A 24 year old wouldn't have the experience and presence of mind of a 50 year old.

Stop trying to masquerade this as something it isn't. SEXISM and AGE discrimination. Exactly the 1200's medieval stereotype I would expect coming out of the middle east.

DITTO!!!!!!

Balaguru wrote:

goboeing wrote:

What a deplorable statement from this rotten little man.

Flight attendants with longevity are a testament to how they are treated by their employer.

Is it me or does he look really tired and worn out in that picture? Like he has not had a full night of sleep since the airspace/destinations/electronic devices issues began.

I don't care for his abrasive style. Nevertheless your personal opinion of the man and your personal attacks on him mask the fact that you are quite mistaken. "Flight attendants with longevity are a testament to how they are treated by their employer. ", but it is not a testament on how they treat their customers, which IMHO, is more important.

How come nobody is talking about the safety risks in an emergency? Wouldn't a more able bodied FA, male or female for that matter be able to help evacuate the aircraft, have more stamina, sustain better under smoke inhalation etc. I mean these are all medially accepted facts that a 24 year old (all other thing being equal) can physically perform better than a 55 year old .... right?

A 24 year old wouldn't have the experience and presence of mind of a 50 year old.

Stop trying to masquerade this as something it isn't. SEXISM and AGE discrimination. Exactly the 1200's medieval stereotype I would expect coming out of the middle east.

Absolutely!!

Balaguru wrote:

goboeing wrote:

What a deplorable statement from this rotten little man.

Flight attendants with longevity are a testament to how they are treated by their employer.

Is it me or does he look really tired and worn out in that picture? Like he has not had a full night of sleep since the airspace/destinations/electronic devices issues began.

I don't care for his abrasive style. Nevertheless your personal opinion of the man and your personal attacks on him mask the fact that you are quite mistaken. "Flight attendants with longevity are a testament to how they are treated by their employer. ", but it is not a testament on how they treat their customers, which IMHO, is more important.

How come nobody is talking about the safety risks in an emergency? Wouldn't a more able bodied FA, male or female for that matter be able to help evacuate the aircraft, have more stamina, sustain better under smoke inhalation etc. I mean these are all medially accepted facts that a 24 year old (all other thing being equal) can physically perform better than a 55 year old .... right?

Able-bodied passengers are everywhere.

In the age of doors that often open themselves (how hard is it to pull a handle to blow the slide? ever done that? I'll tell you: it's effortless) what you want is a cabin crew with judgement and experience. A staff that has seen things over the years and knows to not panic.

It's not that a younger cabin crew couldn't do it. But the crew with more longevity certainly could have a leg-up on them in the heat of the moment.

But go ahead and defend this human troll if you prefer.

In the end this was a perfect own goal. In combination with press reports about the treatment of FAs by QR, this statement is pure gold for airlines wanting to limit the market access by QR. It is open age based discrimination and this a good reason to deny or limit market access. It would be nice if he makes some remarks about homosexual FAs and fat FAs too.

blockski wrote:

I'm not offering an explanation for why things are the way they are. I am saying that if AAB were a CEO of a US company, that company would be sued (and lose) for employment discrimination based on his comments. If AAB wants to talk about customer service, then he can do so directly instead of talking about age or about gender.

Clearly there would be a lot more backlash in the US, and law firms would pounce on such a statement, but if the goal is to get a younger workforce one could do so legally in the US, and the way that it would be done would not look all that different than the way the ME3 does it. It is illegal to discriminate on the basis of age, gender, sexual orientation, religion, etc but it isn't illegal to glamorize the job to bring in a stream of younger applicants, pay low wages, demand work long hours, and nitpick on issues such as personal appearance to the point that people would get sick of working under such terms for more than a few years after the glamour wears off. Also the airlines could use 3rd party staffing firms and specialized work contracts to install such a system while seperating themselves from the inevitable blow back. Whether this makes economic sense or not is a different thing.

This is not sexism. No way.
This is ageism if you like giving it an -ism name.
Or do you think he aprroves stewards aged 50/60?

People love calling everything sexism these days.

Anyway, I like younger stewardesses too. There is nothing wrong with favoring that. People favor a lot of things.

But whether younger FA's are better in their jobs than older ones, I can't say. I really don't know whether that is true or not.

Excuse me if this has been mentioned already... Is the same little banshee who wants to buy a major share of AAL outstanding shares? For an airline that "sees a strong investment opportunity" with AA they cant be all "crap".

Revelation wrote:

blockski wrote:

I'm not offering an explanation for why things are the way they are. I am saying that if AAB were a CEO of a US company, that company would be sued (and lose) for employment discrimination based on his comments. If AAB wants to talk about customer service, then he can do so directly instead of talking about age or about gender.

Clearly there would be a lot more backlash in the US, and law firms would pounce on such a statement, but if the goal is to get a younger workforce one could do so legally in the US, and the way that it would be done would not look all that different than the way the ME3 does it. It is illegal to discriminate on the basis of age, gender, sexual orientation, religion, etc but it isn't illegal to glamorize the job to bring in a stream of younger applicants, pay low wages, demand work long hours, and nitpick on issues such as personal appearance to the point that people would get sick of working under such terms for more than a few years after the glamour wears off. Also the airlines could use 3rd party staffing firms and specialized work contracts to install such a system while seperating themselves from the inevitable blow back. Whether this makes economic sense or not is a different thing.

You're still responding to a hypothetical. Sure, an airline could glamorize the job in order to emphasize customer service. But that is not what AAB statement does. He didn't glamorize the job; he demeaned the employees of US-based carriers for their age and gender.

You're also severely downplaying the impact of these comments if they happened in a US context. Uber's CEO was forced out for presiding over a company culture of discrimination and harassment - without having a blatantly discriminatory quote like AAB's in the papers.

If Qatar were a US company and AAB said this; he'd likely be fired because of the tremendous legal risk he was placing on the company. And that's just based on his comments - to say nothing about Qatar's previous practices for employment contracts that barred female employees from marrying or getting pregnant - also things that are blatantly illegal in the United States.

If anyone else wants to find ways to improve customer service for US airlines, I'm not sure why anyone would ever consider taking hiring advice from a guy leading a company that would be sued out of existence if it operated in the United States.

Yet the customer service on the ME3 (and most non-US airlines) is consistently better. Why is that, do you think? The US excels in customer service in most other areas. Why is it so bad on US carriers? Ask yourself that.

"Let's fly on a US carrier, I hear the service is amazing!"

Said no one ever.

goboeing wrote:

Balaguru wrote:

goboeing wrote:

What a deplorable statement from this rotten little man.

Flight attendants with longevity are a testament to how they are treated by their employer.

Is it me or does he look really tired and worn out in that picture? Like he has not had a full night of sleep since the airspace/destinations/electronic devices issues began.

I don't care for his abrasive style. Nevertheless your personal opinion of the man and your personal attacks on him mask the fact that you are quite mistaken. "Flight attendants with longevity are a testament to how they are treated by their employer. ", but it is not a testament on how they treat their customers, which IMHO, is more important.

How come nobody is talking about the safety risks in an emergency? Wouldn't a more able bodied FA, male or female for that matter be able to help evacuate the aircraft, have more stamina, sustain better under smoke inhalation etc. I mean these are all medially accepted facts that a 24 year old (all other thing being equal) can physically perform better than a 55 year old .... right?

Able-bodied passengers are everywhere.

In the age of doors that often open themselves (how hard is it to pull a handle to blow the slide? ever done that? I'll tell you: it's effortless) what you want is a cabin crew with judgement and experience. A staff that has seen things over the years and knows to not panic.

It's not that a younger cabin crew couldn't do it. But the crew with more longevity certainly could have a leg-up on them in the heat of the moment.

But go ahead and defend this human troll if you prefer.

My first statement was that I don't care for his abrasive style and yet you accuse me of defending him.....

blockski wrote:

You're still responding to a hypothetical.

bgm wrote:

Yet the customer service on the ME3 (and most non-US airlines) is consistently better. Why is that, do you think? The US excels in customer service in most other areas. Why is it so bad on US carriers? Ask yourself that.

"Let's fly on a US carrier, I hear the service is amazing!"

Said no one ever.

Ok, then, let's explore a real world example. Virgin America complied with US laws and had a younger staff and was non-union and had high customer service reviews and a 'hip vibe', at least according to some. What made them different than the US3? What makes them different than the ME3?

Varsity1 wrote:

Balaguru wrote:

goboeing wrote:

What a deplorable statement from this rotten little man.

Flight attendants with longevity are a testament to how they are treated by their employer.

Is it me or does he look really tired and worn out in that picture? Like he has not had a full night of sleep since the airspace/destinations/electronic devices issues began.

I don't care for his abrasive style. Nevertheless your personal opinion of the man and your personal attacks on him mask the fact that you are quite mistaken. "Flight attendants with longevity are a testament to how they are treated by their employer. ", but it is not a testament on how they treat their customers, which IMHO, is more important.

How come nobody is talking about the safety risks in an emergency? Wouldn't a more able bodied FA, male or female for that matter be able to help evacuate the aircraft, have more stamina, sustain better under smoke inhalation etc. I mean these are all medially accepted facts that a 24 year old (all other thing being equal) can physically perform better than a 55 year old .... right?

A 24 year old wouldn't have the experience and presence of mind of a 50 year old.

Stop trying to masquerade this as something it isn't. SEXISM and AGE discrimination. Exactly the 1200's medieval stereotype I would expect coming out of the middle east.

EK's single largest flight attendant population by nationality is British. British, American, German and French FAs are all well represented in the other 2 of ME3 as well. Do you have a theory as to why so many young FAs from these nations are flocking to these SEXIST and AGEIST companies for jobs?

Revelation wrote:

blockski wrote:

You're still responding to a hypothetical.

bgm wrote:

Yet the customer service on the ME3 (and most non-US airlines) is consistently better. Why is that, do you think? The US excels in customer service in most other areas. Why is it so bad on US carriers? Ask yourself that.

"Let's fly on a US carrier, I hear the service is amazing!"

Said no one ever.

Ok, then, let's explore a real world example. Virgin America complied with US laws and had a younger staff and was non-union and had high customer service reviews and a 'hip vibe', at least according to some. What made them different than the US3? What makes them different than the ME3?

What makes them different from the ME3? Well, compliance with US law (for one) and a CEO that isn't spouting off blatantly discriminatory comments.

Again: arguing about the level of customer service on US carriers is utterly irrelevant to the content of AAB's statement. I don't know why you (and others) want to talk about the subtext of his comments ('customer service') when the actual text is plainly discriminatory.

blockski wrote:

Revelation wrote:

blockski wrote:

You're still responding to a hypothetical.

bgm wrote:

Yet the customer service on the ME3 (and most non-US airlines) is consistently better. Why is that, do you think? The US excels in customer service in most other areas. Why is it so bad on US carriers? Ask yourself that.

"Let's fly on a US carrier, I hear the service is amazing!"

Said no one ever.

Ok, then, let's explore a real world example. Virgin America complied with US laws and had a younger staff and was non-union and had high customer service reviews and a 'hip vibe', at least according to some. What made them different than the US3? What makes them different than the ME3?

What makes them different from the ME3? Well, compliance with US law (for one) and a CEO that isn't spouting off blatantly discriminatory comments.

Lets not pretend that nothing disgusting has ever been said by a US3 CEO about the ME carriers.

Again: arguing about the level of customer service on US carriers is utterly irrelevant to the content of AAB's statement. I don't know why you (and others) want to talk about the subtext of his comments ('customer service') when the actual text is plainly discriminatory.

You're right on that one. US3 customer service is shit, regardless of whether the FAs are young or old.

blockski wrote:

Again: arguing about the level of customer service on US carriers is utterly irrelevant to the content of AAB's statement. I don't know why you (and others) want to talk about the subtext of his comments ('customer service') when the actual text is plainly discriminatory.

Saying "arguing about the level of customer service on US carriers is utterly irrelevant" is an ignorant (in the sense of ignoring something) way to look at his statements, IMHO.

Since we're not going to have a dialogue, it looks like it's time to move on to better uses of our time.

Balaguru wrote:

EK's single largest flight attendant population by nationality is British. British, American, German and French FAs are all well represented in the other 2 of ME3 as well. Do you have a theory as to why so many young FAs from these nations are flocking to these SEXIST and AGEIST companies for jobs?

Because they can't get FA jobs in the U.S. or their home nations. When U.S. majors put out openings for new FA jobs, they are almost always overwhelmed with applicants for a relatively small number of openings.

I'd also note that WN is generally recognized for good customer service and it's flight attendants are hardly a bunch of 20 somethings anymore. WN has plenty of older FAs (who'd be too old by QR standards) but who still provide good service. As others have said, the problem with FAs in the U.S. isn't age. It's attitude.

Revelation wrote:

blockski wrote:

Again: arguing about the level of customer service on US carriers is utterly irrelevant to the content of AAB's statement. I don't know why you (and others) want to talk about the subtext of his comments ('customer service') when the actual text is plainly discriminatory.

Saying "arguing about the level of customer service on US carriers is utterly irrelevant" is an ignorant (in the sense of ignoring something) way to look at his statements, IMHO.

So, take his statements as a whole. He's not merely identifying a problem for the US carriers, he's saying how he'd fix it. He identifies the problem (poor customer service) and a solution (discrimination based on age and sexism).

When the solution AAB is proposing (even if he was joking) is blatantly illegal under US law, then why even bother taking any of his 'free advice' for US carriers seriously?

As mentioned before, it's not just his comments - his own airline previously required pregnancy tests for flight attendants and banned them from getting married. We already know those are his airline's ideas of useful tools to provide a good customer experience. And since those kinds of 'tools' are blatantly illegal in the US, why should anyone take his suggestions seriously?

Balaguru wrote:

EK's single largest flight attendant population by nationality is British. British, American, German and French FAs are all well represented in the other 2 of ME3 as well.

Source? Curious as to the FA breakdown by nationality.

Balaguru wrote:

Varsity1 wrote:

Balaguru wrote:

I don't care for his abrasive style. Nevertheless your personal opinion of the man and your personal attacks on him mask the fact that you are quite mistaken. "Flight attendants with longevity are a testament to how they are treated by their employer. ", but it is not a testament on how they treat their customers, which IMHO, is more important.

How come nobody is talking about the safety risks in an emergency? Wouldn't a more able bodied FA, male or female for that matter be able to help evacuate the aircraft, have more stamina, sustain better under smoke inhalation etc. I mean these are all medially accepted facts that a 24 year old (all other thing being equal) can physically perform better than a 55 year old .... right?

A 24 year old wouldn't have the experience and presence of mind of a 50 year old.

Stop trying to masquerade this as something it isn't. SEXISM and AGE discrimination. Exactly the 1200's medieval stereotype I would expect coming out of the middle east.

EK's single largest flight attendant population by nationality is British. British, American, German and French FAs are all well represented in the other 2 of ME3 as well. Do you have a theory as to why so many young FAs from these nations are flocking to these SEXIST and AGEIST companies for jobs?

YEA!, The first thing that comes to mind is I don't think they ALLOW women to do much in these countries. So they need to pick from other countries.

FlyPNS1 wrote:

Balaguru wrote:

EK's single largest flight attendant population by nationality is British. British, American, German and French FAs are all well represented in the other 2 of ME3 as well. Do you have a theory as to why so many young FAs from these nations are flocking to these SEXIST and AGEIST companies for jobs?

Because they can't get FA jobs in the U.S. or their home nations. When U.S. majors put out openings for new FA jobs, they are almost always overwhelmed with applicants for a relatively small number of openings.

I'd also note that WN is generally recognized for good customer service and it's flight attendants are hardly a bunch of 20 somethings anymore. WN has plenty of older FAs (who'd be too old by QR standards) but who still provide good service. As others have said, the problem with FAs in the U.S. isn't age. It's attitude.

Southwest has good customer service, but you can't compare Southwest to the other carriers. They still choose to not offer seat assignments, can't protect you in case of cancelled
delayed flights, etc.. They are not a premium carrier offering diverse classes of service, and now they are the most expensive carrier out there!.

blockski wrote:

So, take his statements as a whole. He's not merely identifying a problem for the US carriers, he's saying how he'd fix it. He identifies the problem (poor customer service) and a solution (discrimination based on age and sexism).

When the solution AAB is proposing (even if he was joking) is blatantly illegal under US law, then why even bother taking any of his 'free advice' for US carriers seriously?

What he said was:

Mr Al Baker derided his American competitors, saying there is no need to fly on “crap” carriers where “you know you will always be served by grandmothers”. By way of comparison, he said, “the average age of my cabin crew is only 26 years”.

He suggests a crew with an average age of 26 years old is a solution, and you suggest that achieving a lower average age is "blatantly illegal under US law" and I suggest it is not, and point out that we have had genuine US airlines whose crews have lower averages than the US3, and propose discussing these cases. You want to rail on about discrimination and want to pretend that US law is always followed not just to the letter but also to the intent, and that just is not true. There are countless examples showing this, but raising them would take us off-topic.

panampreflight wrote:

Balaguru wrote:

Varsity1 wrote:

A 24 year old wouldn't have the experience and presence of mind of a 50 year old.

Stop trying to masquerade this as something it isn't. SEXISM and AGE discrimination. Exactly the 1200's medieval stereotype I would expect coming out of the middle east.

EK's single largest flight attendant population by nationality is British. British, American, German and French FAs are all well represented in the other 2 of ME3 as well. Do you have a theory as to why so many young FAs from these nations are flocking to these SEXIST and AGEIST companies for jobs?

YEA!, The first thing that comes to mind is I don't think they ALLOW women to do much in these countries. So they need to pick from other countries.

Ignorant old person alert!

How come nobody is talking about the safety risks in an emergency? Wouldn't a more able bodied FA, male or female for that matter be able to help evacuate the aircraft, have more stamina, sustain better under smoke inhalation etc. I mean these are all medially accepted facts that a 24 year old (all other thing being equal) can physically perform better than a 55 year old .... right?

You clearly don't work out at the same gym that I do! There are ladies in their 60s kicking the butts of teen and twenty-something guys. A female custodian at my work is a nationally ranked senior runner more than capable of destroying the local high school's cross country runners despite having more than 40 years on them. These may be somewhat exceptional examples I'll grant you, but remember that physical fitness today is very different than it was a few decades ago. As another poster also stated, the older FA might well have more presence of mind due to his or her experience in an emergency. You can't just generalize and stereotype all "aged" people as incapable, or minimally as less capable. It just isn't true in all situations.

The fact that someone has lived twice as long as someone else does give them an advanced point of view, especially when it comes to
safety.

Balaguru wrote:

Varsity1 wrote:

Balaguru wrote:

I don't care for his abrasive style. Nevertheless your personal opinion of the man and your personal attacks on him mask the fact that you are quite mistaken. "Flight attendants with longevity are a testament to how they are treated by their employer. ", but it is not a testament on how they treat their customers, which IMHO, is more important.

How come nobody is talking about the safety risks in an emergency? Wouldn't a more able bodied FA, male or female for that matter be able to help evacuate the aircraft, have more stamina, sustain better under smoke inhalation etc. I mean these are all medially accepted facts that a 24 year old (all other thing being equal) can physically perform better than a 55 year old .... right?

A 24 year old wouldn't have the experience and presence of mind of a 50 year old.

Stop trying to masquerade this as something it isn't. SEXISM and AGE discrimination. Exactly the 1200's medieval stereotype I would expect coming out of the middle east.

EK's single largest flight attendant population by nationality is British. British, American, German and French FAs are all well represented in the other 2 of ME3 as well. Do you have a theory as to why so many young FAs from these nations are flocking to these SEXIST and AGEIST companies for jobs?

Because they are dumb 20 year olds that lack education and view it as a way to travel for free.

Why do women stay married to abusive husbands?

Terrible argument.

blockski wrote:

Revelation wrote:

blockski wrote:

If you wanted to staff up on customer service in the US, then you actually have to hire on the basis of customer service - not age, not sex.

The real reason things are the way they are in the US airline business is the presence of unions, not the US laws. If there was no union, wages would drop, workers would have a lot less protections than they now have, and there would be a lot more turnover than we now see.

I'm not offering an explanation for why things are the way they are. I am saying that if AAB were a CEO of a US company, that company would be sued (and lose) for employment discrimination based on his comments. If AAB wants to talk about customer service, then he can do so directly instead of talking about age or about gender.

Based on his comments, but how many 60 year old bartenders do you see in popular bars in the USA? Zero? The USA does the same exact thing, but hides it under other B.S. reasons.

Apart from that, there is an unreasonable expectation on the part of poorly educated Americans that American beliefs and laws should apply inside other countries and that is the ultimate colonial, imperialist attitude because (shocker) there are other cultures besides ours.

Balaguru wrote:

EK's single largest flight attendant population by nationality is British. British, American, German and French FAs are all well represented in the other 2 of ME3 as well. Do you have a theory as to why so many young FAs from these nations are flocking to these SEXIST and AGEIST companies for jobs?

While EK has its fair share of "First World" flight attendants, the same can definitely not be said for Qatar. British, French, German and especially Americans are nowhere near "well represented" at Al Baker's airline.

panamair wrote:

Balaguru wrote:

EK's single largest flight attendant population by nationality is British. British, American, German and French FAs are all well represented in the other 2 of ME3 as well. Do you have a theory as to why so many young FAs from these nations are flocking to these SEXIST and AGEIST companies for jobs?

While EK has its fair share of "First World" flight attendants, the same can definitely not be said for Qatar. British, French, German and especially Americans are nowhere near "well represented" at Al Baker's airline.

What is this disillusioned thought based off of?

TerminalD wrote:

Based on his comments, but how many 60 year old bartenders do you see in popular bars in the USA? Zero? The USA does the same exact thing, but hides it under other B.S. reasons.

Not at all comparable. How many 60 year olds would still want to be bartenders? Not many 60 year olds want to be in a very noisy, often chaotic environment, with lots of boorishly behaved drunks shouting at you and all that for relatively poor pay and few benefits. It's not age discrimination that eliminates most bartenders, it's simply the nature of the job.

LAXintl wrote:

That is an incredibly uninformed and ill-advised post. Perhaps, using your logic, we should apply that to pilots, too?

Now you are comparing apple to oranges. You can't put pilots and waitresses in the same group.

Maybe it's time to put Al Baker out to pasture.

Varsity1 wrote:

Balaguru wrote:

Varsity1 wrote:

A 24 year old wouldn't have the experience and presence of mind of a 50 year old.

Stop trying to masquerade this as something it isn't. SEXISM and AGE discrimination. Exactly the 1200's medieval stereotype I would expect coming out of the middle east.

EK's single largest flight attendant population by nationality is British. British, American, German and French FAs are all well represented in the other 2 of ME3 as well. Do you have a theory as to why so many young FAs from these nations are flocking to these SEXIST and AGEIST companies for jobs?

Because they are dumb 20 year olds that lack education and view it as a way to travel for free.

Why do women stay married to abusive husbands?

Terrible argument.

That's rich. It's the US3 FAs that work way past their middle-ages (while bitching and providing crap service) are the dumb and uneducated. They know that if it wasn't the airline the only job they'd qualify for is waitressing in a diner.

kjeld0d wrote:

Exactly...who is the trigger happy person on here who keeps deleting posts? How are we supposed to have a discussion if we can't...you know....DISCUSS THINGS!

There isn't a single deleted post in this thread. Please do not make unfounded accusations of trigger-happy moderation.

No point in having young flight attendants either, since you can't take them home with you... who cares