Qatar cancels 4 A350s due to supplier issues

AirbusMDCFAN · Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:42 pm

Source: https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/qata ... nance.html

"Qatar Airways has axed orders for four A350s because of delivery delays, Airbus said on Thursday, handing the European planemaker a new headache over what to do with jets worth $1.2 billion at list prices as it tries to close a sales gap with rival Boeing."

"The decision means Airbus will have to try to resell or reallocate the 283-seat jets at a time when demand for big planes is softening, and could cost Airbus $60-80 million to rip out and replace interiors designed to fit the airline's plush brand."

"Smart players are not going to rush in, because other cancellations or deferrals may come," said veteran aircraft financier Bertrand Grabowski, former board member at DVB Bank."

Is JAL interested in 4 A359 slots from QR or any other airline looking for earlier delivery slots for 4 A359s.

448205 · Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:46 pm

"*Beep* Paging Delta, Please come to the customer service counter.."

rotating14 · Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:57 pm

DL is not taking all of their A350s on order. Why would they try to commit to 4 ex QR frames that may not have the same number of seats and same class sections as DL has in their A350s?

FlyHappy · Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:01 am

can someone please give me the easy to understand version of how Qatar can walk away from airframes already outfitted with an interior without already being financially committed, if not 100%, then at least to the point where Airbus is not citing major financial loss?

I mean, isn't the interior finish one of the very last things to go into a build? how into a build does Airbus (or Boeing) allows its customers to get without major financial investment?

Help me understand.... cuz I don't....

JannEejit · Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:12 am

Is anyone else reading 'Qatar is in a spot of bother and needs to divest itself or aircraft orders...' into this ?

amax1977 · Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:19 am

IR will gladly take them...

tphuang · Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:20 am

JannEejit wrote:
Is anyone else reading 'Qatar is in a spot of other and needs to divest itself or aircraft orders' into this ?

Yep and blaming suppliers as usual. How typical.

N212R · Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:25 am

The Qataris might not be feeling the French love d'antan.

gatibosgru · Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:28 am

How very QR of them...

rbavfan · Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:33 am

rotating14 wrote:
DL is not taking all of their A350s on order. Why would they try to commit to 4 ex QR frames that may not have the same number of seats and same class sections as DL has in their A350s?

FIRST Where did you hear that Delta were not taking them all? Second QR contract they will jave to remove the current interior & replace it anyway. It's very custom over done design and weighs to much.

Newbiepilot · Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:33 am

If I were Airbus I wouldn't want to work with Qatar as a launch customer. They seem to have expectations that the airplanes coming first off the assembly line are the same quality as the later build airplanes. It simply isn't true. Both the A320NEO and A350 have had problems with the supply chain and engines delaying delivery, yet all the other airlines are taking delivery. This shouldn't be that much of a surprise for Qatar yet keep refusing deliveries.

itisi · Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:40 am

Qatar..... looking more and more like a company in trouble

ElroyJetson · Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:40 am

This is quite the blow to Airbus on top of all the deferrals the A350 has already suffered. Obviously Qatar has been unhappy with Airbus for some time considering the A320 neo engine problems and Qatar's response to that issue.

I would say Airbus needs to do some major damage control with a very important customer. It'll be interesting to see how they'll handle this.

itisi · Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:41 am

ElroyJetson wrote:
This is quite the blow to Airbus on top of all the deferrals the A350 has already suffered. Obviously Qatar has been unhappy with Airbus for some time considering the A320 neo engine problems and Qatar's response to that issue.

I would say Airbus needs to do some major damage control with a very important customer. It'll be interesting to see how they'll handle this.

But the problems are not from Airbus and everyone can see the fool at QR is playing games.

ElroyJetson · Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:58 am

itisi wrote:
ElroyJetson wrote:
This is quite the blow to Airbus on top of all the deferrals the A350 has already suffered. Obviously Qatar has been unhappy with Airbus for some time considering the A320 neo engine problems and Qatar's response to that issue.

I would say Airbus needs to do some major damage control with a very important customer. It'll be interesting to see how they'll handle this.

But the problems are not from Airbus and everyone can see the fool at QR is playing games.

You can label this however you want. The bottom line is Airbus will lose many millions on this and their reputation is hurt.

Their have been serious issues with both the A320 neo and A350. Ultimately those problems are Airbus' responsibility. As I said....it will be interesting to see how they respond. Hopefully they take responsibility and fix the problems that exist with both programs.

RL777 · Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:09 am

I'd like to say I'm impartial but this doesn't surprise me one bit that QR is involved with a situation as late in the delivery schedule as this.

dcajet · Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:10 am

JannEejit wrote:
Is anyone else reading 'Qatar is in a spot of bother and needs to divest itself or aircraft orders...' into this ?

Typical of AAB. Blame Airbus and suppliers to weasel out of new planes that, thanks but no thanks, he does not need now, smack in the middle of the dispute with the Saudi cousins and other relatives.

To be clear, I am not saying there are no issues with suppliers whatsoever, however, is QR the only one experiencing these delays, time and again?

lightsaber · Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:11 am

The reasons QR cancels aircraft do not make business sense. Cancel basically ready aircraft?!?

This reeks of having financing issues.

Lightsaber

Revelation · Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:25 am

I don't know what's going on, but Reuters is reporting the complete opposite:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-qatar ... 9R1JV?il=0 says:

Qatar Airways said any delays with the delivery of the Airbus (AIR.PA) A350 long-haul jets are down to Airbus, its chief executive said on Thursday.

"We are asking Airbus to deliver it faster," CEO Akbar al-Baker said at a Dublin news conference. "The delay is from Airbus."

When asked whether he was scrapping orders, Al Baker responded: "They have all our orders. They only need to deliver them to us."

Later, Reuters reported citing sources that Qatar Airways has canceled orders for four A350s over delivery delays. The cancellations were first reported by Bloomberg.

Another source: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/07/q ... 50187.html

flee · Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:28 am

lightsaber wrote:
The reasons QR cancels aircraft do not make business sense. Cancel basically ready aircraft?!?

This reeks of having financing issues.

Lightsaber

Yes, QR is definitely in some difficulties.

If there was a genuine quality issue (that cannot be fixed) with the A350, why are airlines like LH, SQ, CX, etc. continuing to accept aircraft? Shouldn't they be concerned about the substandard quality coming out of Toulouse too?

cschleic · Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:29 am

ElroyJetson wrote:
itisi wrote:
ElroyJetson wrote:
This is quite the blow to Airbus on top of all the deferrals the A350 has already suffered. Obviously Qatar has been unhappy with Airbus for some time considering the A320 neo engine problems and Qatar's response to that issue.

I would say Airbus needs to do some major damage control with a very important customer. It'll be interesting to see how they'll handle this.

But the problems are not from Airbus and everyone can see the fool at QR is playing games.

You can label this however you want. The bottom line is Airbus will lose many millions on this and their reputation is hurt.

Their have been serious issues with both the A320 neo and A350. Ultimately those problems are Airbus' responsibility. As I said....it will be interesting to see how they respond. Hopefully they take responsibility and fix the problems that exist with both programs.

Fix the problems and deliver the planes? Except that Qatar cancels the orders. So...they're not happy with a delay so they cancel, meaning they'll never have the planes instead of having them late, with some type of negotiated compensation. Seems they're worse off now. Same thing with the 320neo...cancelled because of engine issues and they were forced to reduce flights on some routes. But replaced the planes with...what? Airbus has a fix for the 320neo and did Qatar ultimately take delivery? I don't recall. If not...they still don't have planes. Qatar won't be taking delivery of the 350s at all, so what is there for Airbus to fix, as far as that airline goes?

More likely they don't need them in the first place and are using this as an excuse.

ElroyJetson · Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:40 am

cschleic wrote:
ElroyJetson wrote:
itisi wrote:

But the problems are not from Airbus and everyone can see the fool at QR is playing games.

You can label this however you want. The bottom line is Airbus will lose many millions on this and their reputation is hurt.

Their have been serious issues with both the A320 neo and A350. Ultimately those problems are Airbus' responsibility. As I said....it will be interesting to see how they respond. Hopefully they take responsibility and fix the problems that exist with both programs.

Fix the problems and deliver the planes? Except that Qatar cancels the orders. So...they're not happy with a delay so they cancel, meaning they'll never have the planes instead of having them late, with some type of negotiated compensation. Seems they're worse off now. Same thing with the 320neo...cancelled because of engine issues and they were forced to reduce flights on some routes. But replaced the planes with...what? Airbus has a fix for the 320neo and did Qatar ultimately take delivery? I don't recall. If not...they still don't have planes. Qatar won't be taking delivery of the 350s at all, so what is there for Airbus to fix, as far as that airline goes?

More likely they don't need them in the first place and are using this as an excuse.

Regardless of the motives of QR....and let's be real.....none of us know. Airbus provided an opportunity by having issues and problems with both the A320 neo and A350 programs. And yes...Airbus is ultimately responsible. They have no one else to blame but themselves.

And I recall QR beating up on Boeing for problems with the 787 program. And yes....that was Boeing responsibility and it cost them dearly. I think Boeing learned from their errors.....It remains to be seen if Airbus will learn from theirs.

chrisnh · Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:42 am

QR flies an A350 every day to Boston and I can't recall a flight ever being cancelled or replaced by a different aircraft. So it's not as though the A350 is some sort of 'dispatch nightmare.' What's the crux of their unhappiness with it?

rotating14 · Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:49 am

rbavfan wrote:
rotating14 wrote:
DL is not taking all of their A350s on order. Why would they try to commit to 4 ex QR frames that may not have the same number of seats and same class sections as DL has in their A350s?

FIRST Where did you hear that Delta were not taking them all? Second QR contract they will jave to remove the current interior & replace it anyway. It's very custom over done design and weighs to much.

1) www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1360379 (you have access to the internet like we all do. #research)

2)What are you talking about?!???? What would QR have to replace it with if they are rejecting the 4 planes?

ElroyJetson · Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:50 am

chrisnh wrote:
QR flies an A350 every day to Boston and I can't recall a flight ever being cancelled or replaced by a different aircraft. So it's not as though the A350 is some sort of 'dispatch nightmare.' What's the crux of their unhappiness with it?

Per the link the OP provided....Airbus had a contracted delivery date to QR. They failed to make the contracted delivery date...hence Airbus was in breach of contract.

This is not rocket science.

QR has every right to angry with Airbus when they buy billions of dollars worth of aircraft and they are not delivered by Airbus when they are contractually obligated to deliver. Again...Airbus has no one to blame but themselves. Let's see if Airbus fixes their problem with their suppliers and gets their act together. Taking responsibility for their screw ups would probably be a good first step.

cschleic · Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:58 am

ElroyJetson wrote:
cschleic wrote:
ElroyJetson wrote:

You can label this however you want. The bottom line is Airbus will lose many millions on this and their reputation is hurt.

Their have been serious issues with both the A320 neo and A350. Ultimately those problems are Airbus' responsibility. As I said....it will be interesting to see how they respond. Hopefully they take responsibility and fix the problems that exist with both programs.

Fix the problems and deliver the planes? Except that Qatar cancels the orders. So...they're not happy with a delay so they cancel, meaning they'll never have the planes instead of having them late, with some type of negotiated compensation. Seems they're worse off now. Same thing with the 320neo...cancelled because of engine issues and they were forced to reduce flights on some routes. But replaced the planes with...what? Airbus has a fix for the 320neo and did Qatar ultimately take delivery? I don't recall. If not...they still don't have planes. Qatar won't be taking delivery of the 350s at all, so what is there for Airbus to fix, as far as that airline goes?

More likely they don't need them in the first place and are using this as an excuse.

Regardless of the motives of QR....and let's be real.....none of us know. Airbus provided an opportunity by having issues and problems with both the A320 neo and A350 programs. And yes...Airbus is ultimately responsible. They have no one else to blame but themselves.

And I recall QR beating up on Boeing for problems with the 787 program. And yes....that was Boeing responsibility and it cost them dearly. I think Boeing learned from their errors.....It remains to be seen if Airbus will learn from theirs.

Just for a moment, consider the possibility that there's more to the story than the suppliers always being responsible, it costing them dearly, and having to learn from their mistakes. Airbus provided an opportunity, therefore QR isn't responsible for its actions? Business isn't that simple. These things can be a two way street.

Revelation · Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:10 am

Revelation wrote:
I don't know what's going on, but Reuters is reporting the complete opposite

Ok, in re-reading this, it seems AAB is justifying the cancellation by saying Airbus just didn't deliver on time. It seems the sources I read didn't understand the context so misrepresented things.

It seems the original source of the report is Bloomberg: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... lier-issue which is quite definitive:

Qatar Airways has scrapped orders for four Airbus SE A350-900 jets after deliveries were delayed by supplier issues.

The move was reflected in Airbus’s June order tally published Thursday and confirmed by a spokesman for the Toulouse, France-based company. Qatar Air is the biggest buyer of the A350, with 80 orders before the cancellations, as well as the launch customer having taken its first plane in December 2014.

Delivery issues stem from the manufacturer, Akbar Al Baker, Qatar’s chief executive officer, said in response to questions after Bloomberg reported the cancellation plan earlier. The airline’s A350 contract includes a clause allowing it to scrap handovers that are delayed beyond a certain point, Airbus said, adding that the planes will be reallocated to other customers.

So it seems AAB strikes again..

And note if I really was an Airbus h8ter like some like to say, I would have piled on the bandwagon without doing any research...

frmrCapCadet · Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:19 am

If you have ordered something with a promised date, and it isn't ready, AND you have come to the conclusion that you no longer want it, you are entitled by contract to cancel the order. If Qatar wanted the planes, they likely would have accepted the planes late, albeit with some remuneration. Simply business.

ElroyJetson · Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:31 am

frmrCapCadet wrote:
If you have ordered something with a promised date, and it isn't ready, AND you have come to the conclusion that you no longer want it, you are entitled by contract to cancel the order. If Qatar wanted the planes, they likely would have accepted the planes late, albeit with some remuneration. Simply business.

I think you are absolutely correct. If Airbus would have delivered the planes when they contractually agreed to deliver...than QR can blow it out of their ass. Airbus screwed up....and that's the way the cookie crumbles. Maybe this will be a wake up call for Airbus to get their act together.

IslandRob · Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:36 am

I think QR simply ordered too many A350s, and is now exploiting a contract technicality to whittle down their order. This is likely a short sighted way of doing business. The real question is: are more cancellations coming? -ir

Revelation · Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:40 am

ElroyJetson wrote:
frmrCapCadet wrote:
If you have ordered something with a promised date, and it isn't ready, AND you have come to the conclusion that you no longer want it, you are entitled by contract to cancel the order. If Qatar wanted the planes, they likely would have accepted the planes late, albeit with some remuneration. Simply business.

I think you are absolutely correct. If Airbus would have delivered the planes when they contractually agreed to deliver...than QR can blow it out of their ass. Airbus screwed up....and that's the way the cookie crumbles. Maybe this will be a wake up call for Airbus to get their act together.

And perhaps we now know why Enders felt justified in taking sales away from Bregier: the QR cancellation perhaps shows that Bregier needed to "focus on core operations".

Ref: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1367487

DfwAussie · Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:51 am

It seems the love affair with manufacturers with the ME3 is becoming strained. Perhaps those carriers are not as great as so many a.netters want to believe. All three are having their own issues. Now would be a good time for the European and Asian carriers to do a good job of convincing pax flying that the ME is not the only place to connect pax.

flee · Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:59 am

frmrCapCadet wrote:
If you have ordered something with a promised date, and it isn't ready, AND you have come to the conclusion that you no longer want it, you are entitled by contract to cancel the order. If Qatar wanted the planes, they likely would have accepted the planes late, albeit with some remuneration. Simply business.

Yes, Airbus did pay compensation for late deliveries in the early days of the A380 when there were some problems. QR could easily negotiate a compensation claim or sue for breach of contract.

If QR really wanted the planes, then cancellation will not solve their problem - where else can you get newly built aircraft quickly, quicker than the delayed deliveries? It shows that QR does not need them and cancellation without penalties is a good business move.

Airbus should try to sort out their supply chain issues more quickly - it has been over a year since the initial problems with suppliers and they still haven't got on top the issues to date. FB is lucky that he gets more time to focus on these issues as he no longer needs to oversee the sales function.

Channex757 · Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:03 am

This indeed has the stink of QR struggling about it. With supplier delays, AAB has pounced on the get-out and reduced his liabilities at a stroke. Financing that may have been available elsewhere in the Gulf has dried up suddenly, and the ongoing ripples from people like Zodiac have provided an advantage.

QR has planes sat around doing nothing, or going out on charter to other airlines like BA. The current crisis in the Gulf has caused them major cashflow reductions as their most lucrative shorthaul routes have dried up. If you were AAB wouldn't you also do anything you could to conserve cash?

This could also be Airbus quietly helping a friend. The A350 isn't as bespoke as an A380 so it can be refitted and delivered elsewhere. That we will never know. The story though is what isn't actually being reported, including QR being locked out of financing arranged in places like Dubai.

Revelation · Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:13 am

Channex757 wrote:
This indeed has the stink of QR struggling about it. With supplier delays, AAB has pounced on the get-out and reduced his liabilities at a stroke. Financing that may have been available elsewhere in the Gulf has dried up suddenly, and the ongoing ripples from people like Zodiac have provided an advantage.

QR has planes sat around doing nothing, or going out on charter to other airlines like BA. The current crisis in the Gulf has caused them major cashflow reductions as their most lucrative shorthaul routes have dried up. If you were AAB wouldn't you also do anything you could to conserve cash?

This could also be Airbus quietly helping a friend. The A350 isn't as bespoke as an A380 so it can be refitted and delivered elsewhere. That we will never know. The story though is what isn't actually being reported, including QR being locked out of financing arranged in places like Dubai.

Very interesting thoughts about QR's situation. Regarding the aircraft, the thread starting link suggests:

The decision means Airbus <AIR.PA> will have to try to resell or reallocate the 283-seat jets at a time when demand for big planes is softening, and could cost Airbus $60-80 million to rip out and replace interiors designed to fit the airline's plush brand.

So they seem to be somewhat bespoke after all, no?

PS: An observation: Bespoke seems to be a term used frequently in the UK, much less so in the US. I hear it used pretty routinely on shows like Top Gear etc yet almost never on US TV shows. I guess an American would say customized rather than bespoke. Not saying one is better or worse, it's just an observation.

IslandRob · Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:24 am

Revelation wrote:
Regarding the aircraft, the thread starting link suggests:

The decision means Airbus <AIR.PA> will have to try to resell or reallocate the 283-seat jets at a time when demand for big planes is softening, and could cost Airbus $60-80 million to rip out and replace interiors designed to fit the airline's plush brand.

So they seem to be somewhat bespoke after all, no?

Beyond the 4 cancelled planes, doesn't QR still have outstanding A359 orders? Would it be out of the question for Airbus to finish outfitting the "cancelled" planes and set them aside for later delivery to QR? Yes, it would be expensive to keep them as idle inventory, but it's also expensive (purportedly $60-$80 million each) to re-outfit them for another airline. -ir

Revelation · Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:33 am

IslandRob wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Regarding the aircraft, the thread starting link suggests:

The decision means Airbus <AIR.PA> will have to try to resell or reallocate the 283-seat jets at a time when demand for big planes is softening, and could cost Airbus $60-80 million to rip out and replace interiors designed to fit the airline's plush brand.

So they seem to be somewhat bespoke after all, no?

Beyond the 4 cancelled planes, doesn't QR still have outstanding A359 orders? Would it be out of the question for Airbus to finish outfitting the "cancelled" planes and set them aside for later delivery to QR? Yes, it would be expensive to keep them as idle inventory, but it's also expensive (purportedly $60-$80 million each) to re-outfit them for another airline. -ir

Yet in #27 above Airbus says that other customers will get them. Maybe there is more to the story...

cschleic · Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:35 am

ElroyJetson wrote:
frmrCapCadet wrote:
If you have ordered something with a promised date, and it isn't ready, AND you have come to the conclusion that you no longer want it, you are entitled by contract to cancel the order. If Qatar wanted the planes, they likely would have accepted the planes late, albeit with some remuneration. Simply business.

I think you are absolutely correct. If Airbus would have delivered the planes when they contractually agreed to deliver...than QR can blow it out of their ass. Airbus screwed up....and that's the way the cookie crumbles. Maybe this will be a wake up call for Airbus to get their act together.

Absolutely right, if Airbus didn't live up to the contract, there are consequences. But....as I said...it's not that simple. If QR really wanted or needed the planes, they might work out something. In the end, they won't have them. So maybe they have an issue, too, and ought to admit it as well. Maybe one day QR will heed the wake up call that the cookie crumbles on their end, too, if they ordered too many planes.

IslandRob · Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:53 am

Revelation wrote:
Yet in #27 above Airbus says that other customers will get them. Maybe there is more to the story...

Perhaps so. I don't think we've heard the full story yet.

And, to clarify one of my previous comments, I should note that the reported $60-80 million cost of ripping out the QR interiors might be for all 4 planes in total, and not per plane. The quote is ambiguous in this regard. -ir

448205 · Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:20 am

DfwAussie wrote:
It seems the love affair with manufacturers with the ME3 is becoming strained. Perhaps those carriers are not as great as so many a.netters want to believe. All three are having their own issues. Now would be a good time for the European and Asian carriers to do a good job of convincing pax flying that the ME is not the only place to connect pax.

You mean money doesn't grow on trees and I can't ride an A380 anywhere I please for $600RT?

Say it ain't so!

Devilfish · Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:23 am

rbavfan wrote:
QR contract they will jave to remove the current interior & replace it anyway. It's very custom over done design and weighs to much.

Are these ULR variants?...this may be other airlines' chance to get A359s earlier. I don't mind the bespoke cabin :cloudnine:

would make the nonstop to JFK fantastic. But I guess PR would find it impossible filling same...and might also want the bugs eliminated and launch discounts to apply before swapping. :laughing:

blueflyer · Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:45 am

cschleic wrote:
Absolutely right, if Airbus didn't live up to the contract, there are consequences. But....as I said...it's not that simple. If QR really wanted or needed the planes, they might work out something. In the end, they won't have them. So maybe they have an issue, too, and ought to admit it as well. Maybe one day QR will heed the wake up call that the cookie crumbles on their end, too, if they ordered too many planes.

Qatar enters into an agreement in March to lease 4 A350s from LATAM. Qatar cancels 4 A350s due to delayed deliveries in July. Coincidence? For the short term, Qatar's planned growth is not affected one way or the other.

That said, Qatar has also sent 9 A320s to cover BA flights. Did they cancel their own flights, or do they come from holes in the schedule?

behramjee · Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:56 am

QR sent 9 A320/321s to BA on short notice because they aren't flying 17 daily DXB + 4 daily JED + 4 daily RUH + 3 daily CAI + 7 daily BAH + 6 daily AUH + 3 daily MED + 2 daily TIF + 5 daily DMM + 4 daily DWC + 3 daily SHJ flights so yes they have plenty of spare aircraft available including a few wide bodies.

kimimm19 · Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:27 am

Surely this could be a great opportunity for an airline that hasn't received or hasn't even ordered a350s to get their hands on next generation aircraft!

I'm specifically referring to an airline like SWISS that could do well with replacing another 4 a340s...

zeke · Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:43 am

FlyHappy wrote:
can someone please give me the easy to understand version of how Qatar can walk away from airframes already outfitted with an interior without already being financially committed, if not 100%, then at least to the point where Airbus is not citing major financial loss?

There are two aspects of this, the interior is buyer furnished equipment, they choose and buy it from the supplier. They are not off the hook if they don't accept the aircraft, they have paid for the cabin.

If the airframe is late the purchaser may get around not defaulting on the contract and have to pay cancellation costs. They will however not automatically get their deposits back, it depends on how they get placed in the market and cost of items like reconfiguring the cabin and a new paint job.

This is not a clean outcome for either party, it make little business sense imho.

grbauc · Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:45 am

ElroyJetson wrote:
itisi wrote:
ElroyJetson wrote:
This is quite the blow to Airbus on top of all the deferrals the A350 has already suffered. Obviously Qatar has been unhappy with Airbus for some time considering the A320 neo engine problems and Qatar's response to that issue.

I would say Airbus needs to do some major damage control with a very important customer. It'll be interesting to see how they'll handle this.

But the problems are not from Airbus and everyone can see the fool at QR is playing games.

You can label this however you want. The bottom line is Airbus will lose many millions on this and their reputation is hurt.

Their have been serious issues with both the A320 neo and A350. Ultimately those problems are Airbus' responsibility. As I said....it will be interesting to see how they respond. Hopefully they take responsibility and fix the problems that exist with both programs.

Your its Airbus problem to Fix.. They will just Like Boeing would and does. QR does seem to be high maintenance If AB didn't know it I suppose they do now. I'm sure this is very important to AB but maybe a little bit more dramatized on Anet. I'm sure there are contracts that spell out who pays and how much and what can and can't be done. Until we know details it is all a guessing game.

grbauc · Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:46 am

Revelation wrote:
I don't know what's going on, but Reuters is reporting the complete opposite:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-qatar ... 9R1JV?il=0 says:

Qatar Airways said any delays with the delivery of the Airbus (AIR.PA) A350 long-haul jets are down to Airbus, its chief executive said on Thursday.

"We are asking Airbus to deliver it faster," CEO Akbar al-Baker said at a Dublin news conference. "The delay is from Airbus."

When asked whether he was scrapping orders, Al Baker responded: "They have all our orders. They only need to deliver them to us."

Later, Reuters reported citing sources that Qatar Airways has canceled orders for four A350s over delivery delays. The cancellations were first reported by Bloomberg.

Another source: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/07/q ... 50187.html

seems this story has more info needed tag to be added.

sadiqutp · Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:48 am

What keeps me thinking is why four? Is it the number of frames they can contractually cancel ?
Is it a coincidence that it's the same number as the leased frames from Latam ?
Yes, Airbus has no one to blame but themselves, but to think that the blockade on Qatar didn't influence the decision is a bit naive ! Almost all A350s arrived late, so why now?

snasteve · Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:50 am

Revelation wrote:
PS: An observation: Bespoke seems to be a term used frequently in the UK, much less so in the US. I hear it used pretty routinely on shows like Top Gear etc yet almost never on US TV shows. I guess an American would say customized rather than bespoke. Not saying one is better or worse, it's just an observation.

It's a word Americans might tend associate with class and pretension if not done carefully, we tend to overuse PC words and safe talk.

II would expect to hear it said in a Bentley Dealership, but never at BMW/Merc.. Also, It doesn't sound as nice when we speak it, I'd hate it if I had to hear that all the time from my compatriots.

TheGeordielad · Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:54 am

amax1977 wrote:
IR will gladly take them...

I'm sure they will gladly take them whether they will take them is another thing as they only have the larger 1000 on order but I'm sure they wouldn't mind 4 extra aircraft.

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