Earlier today at PVG, when passengers were boarding the flight CZ380 to CAN, according to reports, an old female passenger have thrown a number of coins into the A320's engine. All passengers were deboarded, coins were picked up from the engine and the aircraft were rechecked. The flight have been delayed for several hours, and according to information posted onto social networks, it have been claimed that the passenger were wishing for luck when she thrown those coins toward the engine, and there're also reports that polices are handling the case.

Must be a newly invented tradition. Does it bring good luck?

If even one coin could not be retrieved, the engineers would have had to replace the engine.

dtw2hyd wrote:

Must be a newly invented tradition. Does it bring good luck?

I would say, probably not. At least, to the engine if started unchecked.

According to information released by Shanghai Police, the 80-years-old passenger is a Buddhist, and her act was to pray for a safe flight. Police have recovered 1 coin from within the engine and 9 additional coins on nearby ground.

c933103 wrote:

According to information released by Shanghai Police, the 80-years-old passenger is a Buddhist, and her act was to pray for a safe flight. Police have recovered 1 coin from within the engine and 9 additional coins on nearby ground.

How ironic that her act that was to ensure a safe flight actually put that flight in danger! She may be Buddhist but she certainly isn't smart!

Well, if this tradition catches up, buy old jet engines and install next to fountains in parks and other tourist places.

Few pics of the incident:





https://twitter.com/SCMP_News/status/879668522854604800

Well if the pax is / was not able to give an accurate count of how many coins she threw, how much inspection should be done of the engine?
Do an engine run then look for metal shavings, or x-ray the entire engine?

This flight should be her last! I detest stupid people....

andrefranca wrote:

This flight should be her last! I detest stupid people....

Stupid? Really? Ignorant would be more appropriate. I wonder if this was her first flight ever.

It is very difficult to control Mainland Chinese. According to a local forum member in Malaysia aviation forum, few months ago there were incidents in Rural Air Service airports in Mulu and Pulau Layang-Layang when these Mainland tourists actually went to the port side of an MASWings ATR72 and grabbed the propeller and tried to spin it for some selfies photos. Since then security on ramp at secondary smaller airports has been beefed up. Good grief if Final Destination happens.

According to report, CZ said that:
- The passenger have already been taken away by police
- When the passenger throw coins to the engine, none of the airlines staff noticed her action despite she have applied for special caring with wheelchair service. It would have went unnoticed if cabin crews were not notified by passenger after that woman.

juliuswong wrote:

Call me racist for all you want, it is very difficult to control Mainland Chinese. According to a local forum member in Malaysia aviation forum, few months ago there were incidents in Rural Air Service airports in Mulu and Pulau Layang-Layang when these Mainland tourists actually went to the port side of an MASWings ATR72 and grabbed the propeller and tried to spin it for some selfies photos. Since then security on ramp at secondary smaller airports has been beefed up. Good grief if Final Destination happens.

This is really not necessary. The mainland Chinese are some of the most dedicated, motivated, competitive and caring folks i have ever met. I have only the utmost respect for them. Back on topic, this was probably just a case of a lady not understanding the implications of her actions. She can't be blamed for this.

intothinair wrote:

juliuswong wrote:

Call me racist for all you want, it is very difficult to control Mainland Chinese. According to a local forum member in Malaysia aviation forum, few months ago there were incidents in Rural Air Service airports in Mulu and Pulau Layang-Layang when these Mainland tourists actually went to the port side of an MASWings ATR72 and grabbed the propeller and tried to spin it for some selfies photos. Since then security on ramp at secondary smaller airports has been beefed up. Good grief if Final Destination happens.

This is really not necessary. The mainland Chinese are some of the most dedicated, motivated, competitive and caring folks i have ever met. I have only the utmost respect for them. Back on topic, this was probably just a case of a lady not understanding the implications of her actions. She can't be blamed for this.

Yes, I agree with you. I have met many good ones too and I have high respect for them. Unfortunately, those of us working in service line especially in aviation and tourism, sometimes are at our wits' end dealing with them. Respect goes two way, which some Mainlanders need to learn.

Flying for many Chinese is a brand new experience so I guess incidents like this should be expected and proper procedures put in place. If she was in wheel chair why did the staff let her near the engine....would be one of the first questions I'd want to understand.

I am sure this old lady is lovely, but does this one count as another point against religion? Prayers can lead to disaster!

At first when I heard this I thought she had thrown them into the engine whilst it was running. I suppose they would have had to take the fan blades off to check if there was anything there. Her real luck was that someone noticed and they didn't try to start it!

c933103 wrote:

According to information released by Shanghai Police, the 80-years-old passenger is a Buddhist, and her act was to pray for a safe flight. Police have recovered 1 coin from within the engine and 9 additional coins on nearby ground.

Yeah, that is very idiotic to do something you know very little about. As stated, that's ironic, it put the flight in danger.

You can never say that you have not seen anything. Had that plane taken off, I shudder to think what the end result would have been,

I doubt whether the coins would have entered the core and if they did only as far as the first row. A boroscope check would be the easiest way to see.

China is a big place. Also, the rural elders did not grow up in a modern country. Their beliefs stretch back 500++ years ago in plenty of cases. They did not come from the world we live in today. Our world is probably scary to them, so please be understanding. It is a charming story in a kooky way. A lot of history will be lost when the pre modern generation fades away. But not yet - still hundreds of millions of them alive and kicking.

juliuswong wrote:

It is very difficult to control Mainland Chinese. According to a local forum member in Malaysia aviation forum, few months ago there were incidents in Rural Air Service airports in Mulu and Pulau Layang-Layang when these Mainland tourists actually went to the port side of an MASWings ATR72 and grabbed the propeller and tried to spin it for some selfies photos. Since then security on ramp at secondary smaller airports has been beefed up. Good grief if Final Destination happens.

To be fair, you could spin a turboprop propeller all you want without putting yourself in danger. Obviously, it isn't something passengers should be allowed to do because they might damage the aircraft, but it isn't like they could accidentally hand-prop the engine.

But I see your point. If security was lax enough that they could do something like that, they might be able to go next to a running engine for a *very* cool selfie

I am trying to understand what was going on in the woman's head? Why throw coins specifically into the engine? Does it look like a wishing well? Why not some other place, like under the wheels or by the cockpit etc? I'd like to know what the old lady thought the "engine" actually is according to her?

If you try it with BA will it bring good service ?

Hey, it got them to give the engine a good inspection before she trusted her life with it.

Throwing money into the sea before a voyage has been a superstitious practice in the past. In Greek mythology, it could be done as an offering to gain favor with Poseidon. I would not be surprised if there is an equivalent practice in parts of China, and it especially could survive in rural China.

Balerit wrote:

I doubt whether the coins would have entered the core and if they did only as far as the first row. A boroscope check would be the easiest way to see.

Very doubtful. Think about the internal layout of a turbofan. The opening to the core is pretty small, and mostly blocked by the roots of the fan blades and the shroud over the hub. When the engine starts up it's mostly to just push the coins along the bottom of the fan casing, or if the blades contact one, corkscrew it around inside the case. In that case, centrifugal momentum is going to tend to keep them away from the core.

I'm sure there's a better chance of getting FOD in the core while it actually running, but obviously there's not going to be passengers nearby at that time.

incitatus wrote:

I am sure this old lady is lovely, but does this one count as another point against religion? Prayers can lead to disaster!

More disasters have happened without prayer than with it..

dtw2hyd wrote:

Must be a newly invented tradition. Does it bring good luck?

Throwing coins and similar items of value into fountains or rivers to appease the gods probably predates organised religion.

According to Wikipedia ,approx. EUR 3000 is thrown into the Trevi Fountain every day, so the tradition continues even now.

StuckinCMHland wrote:

incitatus wrote:

I am sure this old lady is lovely, but does this one count as another point against religion? Prayers can lead to disaster!

More disasters have happened without prayer than with it..

Amen!

The chance of any damage being done is nearly zero. It would be impossible to throw these coins into the core, unless you were really trying hard and standing in the nose cowl. With the engine running they would never enter the core, they would be centrifuged out. The worst that could happen would be one coin getting stuck under a fan blade, and gouging the abradable lining of the fan case when the engine started.

Police released the passenger without charges after considered her age and she did not have ill intention

Flighty wrote:

China is a big place. Also, the rural elders did not grow up in a modern country. Their beliefs stretch back 500++ years ago in plenty of cases. They did not come from the world we live in today. Our world is probably scary to them, so please be understanding. It is a charming story in a kooky way. A lot of history will be lost when the pre modern generation fades away. But not yet - still hundreds of millions of them alive and kicking.

Well said, it's this generation that still keeps us attached to proper values & beliefs. While antiquated to many, the tradition of coins to bless a journey dates back thousands of years, indeed a charming story. The world is very scary to many of this generation my folks are in, it's sad, but I do get it. I am pleased to see they have decided to drop charges due to her honest intent, something that seems like is in short supply lately.

intothinair wrote:

juliuswong wrote:

Call me racist for all you want, it is very difficult to control Mainland Chinese. According to a local forum member in Malaysia aviation forum, few months ago there were incidents in Rural Air Service airports in Mulu and Pulau Layang-Layang when these Mainland tourists actually went to the port side of an MASWings ATR72 and grabbed the propeller and tried to spin it for some selfies photos. Since then security on ramp at secondary smaller airports has been beefed up. Good grief if Final Destination happens.

This is really not necessary. The mainland Chinese are some of the most dedicated, motivated, competitive and caring folks i have ever met. I have only the utmost respect for them. Back on topic, this was probably just a case of a lady not understanding the implications of her actions. She can't be blamed for this.

Is there anything passengers can be blamed for? I don't intend to for you to take this as an attack but I've read your posts in other threads and you seem to explain away nearly any passenger behavior while holding any airline to the utmost accountability in almost every regard. If the passenger behind her didn't speak up and inflight engine failure lead to a crash who would you blame? The airline? Even if the plane didn't crash but that engine suffered severe damage, who should pay for it? The airline?

There are already people commenting on what airline staff should and shouldn't have done. Questions of why they did not notice. Do the people on this forum think airline staff are mindless tyrannical robots? They are people the same as everyone else. There seems to be more demands for accountability of airline staff than almost any other profession. I hope you all are as vocal about police misconduct and brutality and political corruption as you are about the airlines.

77H

77H wrote:

... If the passenger behind her didn't speak up and inflight engine failure lead to a crash who would you blame? The airline? Even if the plane didn't crash but that engine suffered severe damage, who should pay for it? The airline?...

While your concerns are real, read the post by Tristarsteve.

par13del wrote:

Well if the pax is / was not able to give an accurate count of how many coins she threw, how much inspection should be done of the engine?
Do an engine run then look for metal shavings, or x-ray the entire engine?

I am not sure how practical it is to x-ray what is essentially a metal object?

AVFCdownunder wrote:

par13del wrote:

Well if the pax is / was not able to give an accurate count of how many coins she threw, how much inspection should be done of the engine?
Do an engine run then look for metal shavings, or x-ray the entire engine?

I am not sure how practical it is to x-ray what is essentially a metal object?

X-RAY INSPECTION IN THE AEROSPACE INDUSTRY - STATE OF THE ART, CHALLENGES, AND EMERGING TECHNOLOGIES
http://www.ndt.net/article/wcndt2004/pdf/aerospace/374_mohr.pdf

77H wrote:

intothinair wrote:

juliuswong wrote:

Call me racist for all you want, it is very difficult to control Mainland Chinese. According to a local forum member in Malaysia aviation forum, few months ago there were incidents in Rural Air Service airports in Mulu and Pulau Layang-Layang when these Mainland tourists actually went to the port side of an MASWings ATR72 and grabbed the propeller and tried to spin it for some selfies photos. Since then security on ramp at secondary smaller airports has been beefed up. Good grief if Final Destination happens.

This is really not necessary. The mainland Chinese are some of the most dedicated, motivated, competitive and caring folks i have ever met. I have only the utmost respect for them. Back on topic, this was probably just a case of a lady not understanding the implications of her actions. She can't be blamed for this.

Is there anything passengers can be blamed for? I don't intend to for you to take this as an attack but I've read your posts in other threads and you seem to explain away nearly any passenger behavior while holding any airline to the utmost accountability in almost every regard. If the passenger behind her didn't speak up and inflight engine failure lead to a crash who would you blame? The airline? Even if the plane didn't crash but that engine suffered severe damage, who should pay for it? The airline?

There are already people commenting on what airline staff should and shouldn't have done. Questions of why they did not notice. Do the people on this forum think airline staff are mindless tyrannical robots? They are people the same as everyone else. There seems to be more demands for accountability of airline staff than almost any other profession. I hope you all are as vocal about police misconduct and brutality and political corruption as you are about the airlines.

77H

Dear 77H,

Please do highlight to me one other post in this forum where i have indicated passenger behavior as a priority over airline procedures? You must have me mistaken with another member. Now in this case i do firmly stand to my point. If throwing coins into an engine can cause severe damage then i would highly recommend airlines enforce stricter control procedures to ensure no passenger has the opportunity to throw anything into an engine, let alone coins.

Furthermore, it is not communicated at the check in counter, on the bus to the plane, or upon disembarking the bus at the plane that throwing objects into the engine for what is perceived as good luck in some cultures is not permitted.

How was this 80 year old lady supposed to know? opening an emergency door during a non-emergency situation being a violation, that i understand as it is clearly communicated that the door is only to be opened during emergency. But there is no warning on throwing coins into an engine.

AVFCdownunder wrote:

par13del wrote:

Well if the pax is / was not able to give an accurate count of how many coins she threw, how much inspection should be done of the engine?
Do an engine run then look for metal shavings, or x-ray the entire engine?

I am not sure how practical it is to x-ray what is essentially a metal object?

Visual inspection and engine power wash is a better solution. Watch EcoPower (or) Cyclean Engine Wash videos.

There are other ways to offer coins to Fire God, throwing into engines is not one of those.

I am still surprised how a wheelchair bound Grandma managed to throw coins into an engine without anyone noticing.

http://dailycaller.com/2017/10/20/chine ... ne-engine/
Another similar incident just occurred, this time on a Lucky Air aircraft

c933103 wrote:

http://dailycaller.com/2017/10/20/chinese-woman-causes-chaos-after-tossing-lucky-coins-into-plane-engine/
Another similar incident just occurred, this time on a Lucky Air aircraft

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/LKE9960

Shows that last Wednesday's flight out of Anquing (AQG), China, was canceled, indeed.

c933103 wrote:

According to information released by Shanghai Police, the 80-years-old passenger is a Buddhist, and her act was to pray for a safe flight. Police have recovered 1 coin from within the engine and 9 additional coins on nearby ground.

To all those who believe that the ground crew, FAs, or other passengers should have noticed, just take a moment to visualise this scenario.
The old lady, weak and infirm, tosses a number of coins towards the engine - from some distance away. (I have never been taken extremely close to an engine whilst boarding)
The old lady, weak and feeble, is unable to throw her coins accurately, and nine coins land harmlessly on the ground, making the usual attractive ker-ching sound. Nearby some people in the boarding queue smile. There, no harm done!

Some days later, after the event, here on a.net we can read a police report telling us there was a tenth coin that allegedly landed in the engine.
I would not claim to be so perfect that I would have known about the tenth coin if I had been there myself, but there seem to be others on this thread with higher expectations of their fellow man.
I cannot say if the above narrative is correct, but it is certainly a possibility, and I would contend a very likely possibility.
Matthew 7:1 Judge not, lest ye be judged!

Astronage wrote:

andrefranca wrote:

This flight should be her last! I detest stupid people....

Stupid? Really? Ignorant would be more appropriate. I wonder if this was her first flight ever.

No, stupid is more appropriate. Nobody is taught to not throw things into jet engines, yet such incidents are unheard of.

Aesma wrote:

Astronage wrote:

andrefranca wrote:

This flight should be her last! I detest stupid people....

Stupid? Really? Ignorant would be more appropriate. I wonder if this was her first flight ever.

No, stupid is more appropriate. Nobody is taught to not throw things into jet engines, yet such incidents are unheard of.

For goodness sake, she is an 80 years old woman, probably she has never seen an airplane before. Do you really think she knows what an airplane engine is, where it is and what the consequences are for throwing coins at it?