Boeing receives Unidentified Order for 20 777X

qf789 · Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:33 pm

In the latest order update Boeing has listed 20 777X listed as unidentified. Any ideas on who this can be for?

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/#/orders-deliveries

ikolkyo · Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:36 pm

I'm surprised this wasn't mentioned at Paris since the 737 MAX UFO was announced, this could be any airline that currently operates a large 77W fleet. I don't think this is the rumored Vistara order, could be but I hope not.

edit: Just saw what Stitch posted in the Order thread, has to be SQ since 19 787s are also under the UFO category.

817Dreamliiner · Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:36 pm

qf789 wrote:
In the latest order update Boeing has listed 20 777X listed as unidentified. Any ideas on who this can be for?

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/#/orders-deliveries

My first guess would be Singapore Airlines

MrHMSH · Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:37 pm

The size makes me think it could be IAG for BA. Not sure why they'd not want to be identified, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's it.

KarelXWB · Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:37 pm

Singapore Airline, combined with 19 787s.

Stitch · Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:38 pm

qf789 wrote:
In the latest order update Boeing has listed 20 777X listed as unidentified. Any ideas on who this can be for?

SQ signed an LoI for 20 777-9 and 19 787-10 so we can be pretty confident SQ have now firmed both.

Polot · Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:40 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
I'm surprised this wasn't mentioned at Paris since the 737 MAX UFO was announced, this could be any airline that currently operates a large 77W fleet. I don't think this is the rumored Vistara order, could be but I hope not.

edit: Just saw what Stitch posted in the Order thread, has to be SQ since 19 787s are also under the UFO category.

SQ probably just didn't want to share the spotlight in Paris.

seahawk · Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:41 pm

Fantastic news, another top class airline committing to the 777X.

LAXintl · Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:43 pm

SIA is certainly getting the 777X.

SIA just last week agreed with GE to jointly establish engine overhaul joint venture based in Singapore to support GE90 and GE9X operators.
The agreement makes specific mention of SIA committing overhaul of all its applicable engines including those of planned 777-9 fleet to the venture.

Stitch · Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:44 pm

Polot wrote:
SQ probably just didn't want to share the spotlight in Paris.

Or they want to publicly announce at the Singapore Air Show next February.

Arion640 · Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:58 pm

MrHMSH wrote:
The size makes me think it could be IAG for BA. Not sure why they'd not want to be identified, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's it.

I'm not sure if BA will ever get the plane. My guess is all 777's will get replaced by A350/7810 eventually. Who knows. Always fun speculating.

B752OS · Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:13 pm

LAXintl wrote:
SIA is certainly getting the 777X.

SIA just last week agreed with GE to jointly establish engine overhaul joint venture based in Singapore to support GE90 and GE9X operators.
The agreement makes specific mention of SIA committing overhaul of all its applicable engines including those of planned 777-9 fleet to the venture.

Curious, where might SIA send these 779s?

Polot · Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:15 pm

Trans Pacific and to larger European stations.

na · Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:15 pm

A logical 77W subfleet replacement.

Whalejet · Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:15 pm

What about Vistara? I've heard rumblings that they wanted 777Xs, a large amount.

Polot · Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:18 pm

na wrote:
A logical 77W subfleet replacement.

More like growth off the 77W (The 779s will definitely seat a lot more, considering they will likely be 10Y instead of 9Y on the 77Ws, unless SQ goes all out on the premium cabin sizes). A mix of A350s/779s will replace the 77Ws as a whole dependent on the exact route requirements. Will also help bridge the gap to the A380s.

na · Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:30 pm

Polot wrote:
na wrote:
A logical 77W subfleet replacement.

More like growth off the 77W (The 779s will definitely seat a lot more, considering they will likely be 10Y instead of 9Y on the 77Ws, unless SQ goes all out on the premium cabin sizes). A mix of A350s/779s will replace the 77Ws as a whole dependent on the exact route requirements. Will also help bridge the gap to the A380s.

Half of the former SQ 744 subfleet was replaced by the smaller 77W which now in turn will be replaced by the 779 which is closer to 744 size.

VC10er · Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:39 pm

Well if it's United, this will give them some time to get enough Polaris seats!

MileHFL400 · Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:54 pm

100 % SIA. I think the speculation can end here

Revelation · Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:59 pm

Stitch wrote:
SQ signed an LoI for 20 777-9 and 19 787-10 so we can be pretty confident SQ have now firmed both.

Wow -- proof that LOIs some times really do become Orders!!! :-)

zkncj · Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:11 pm

Could be NZ, they have said they will be placing there 77E/77W replacement this order this. They currently have 8x 77E and 7x 77W, and they are in growth mode so wouldn't be suprrized to see the fleet size increase when they replace the current 777 fleet.

The 6x 763s got replaced by 13x 789s, so it possible to see them order additional aircraft for growth.

Momo1435 · Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:21 pm

Singapore Airlines probably booked it as Unidentified so that they can later allocate part of this order to their group of airlines. Using the Chinese way of doing this instead of making changes to SQ's own order book like they did before with the 787s for Scoot.

Boeing778X · Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:23 pm

I don't understand how SQ's MoU could turn into a UFO order. 20x 779s are going to SQ, yes, but who else could it be?

Vistara? They did say 50x, but they could reduce that.
Air New Zealand? I don't think so.
United? Ah, no.

Stitch · Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:39 pm

Boeing778X wrote:
I don't understand how SQ's MoU could turn into a UFO order.

SQ signs a sales contract and requests Boeing not to identify them at the time. Boeing has to publicly record the order so they do so as a UFO. SQ will eventually need to file notice with the Singapore Exchange so it may become public before the Air Show, but depending on the terms Boeing required as a deposit, that might fall below whatever minimum reporting levels Singapore's markets and securities officials requires so they can delay said notice.

zkncj · Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:52 pm

Boeing778X wrote:
I don't understand how SQ's MoU could turn into a UFO order. 20x 779s are going to SQ, yes, but who else could it be?

Vistara? They did say 50x, but they could reduce that.
Air New Zealand? I don't think so.
United? Ah, no.

[url]http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11870587[\url]

NZ has already signalled the replacement of the 77E fleet, chances are the 77W fleet will get reviewed at the same time.

NZ runs its fiscal year from July to June, so there about to end FY17 this week. If Boeing offer the right price at the right time, they may have wanted to get there deposit paid out of FY17 as they have forecasted an larger than expected profit for this FY. Then they will sort the details out durring FY18 and financing them.

jfk777 · Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:52 pm

20 777-9 could be flown by so many but who ? Air France, Qantas, JAL, Air Canada, Korean Air, or Turkish Air.

PlanesNTrains · Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:05 am

Original Singapore Airlines Commitment to Purchase Press Release from Boeing:

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/custom ... order.page

Then, in this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1351695&start=150

QF789 posted this update (bold/underline is mine):

qf789 wrote:
Boeing Weekly Update (first since PAS)

153 new orders (CALC – China for 50 737, Norwegian for two 737, Ryanair for ten 737, United Airlines for four 777, AerCap for 30 787, EL AL Israel Airlines for three 787, Unidentified Customer(s) for 15 737, 20 777X and 19 787). Identified Tassili Airlines for three 737s previously listed as unidentified

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/#/orders-deliveries

So it would seem that we have a pretty good idea that it was the firming of the SIA Commitment to Purchase.

zeke · Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:54 am

Could I suggest then this discussion gets moved to the existing thread that is already 5 pages long.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1355111

IslandRob · Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:07 am

zeke wrote:
Could I suggest then this discussion gets moved to the existing thread that is already 5 pages long.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1355111

That thread is ancient. Today's development is better discussed in its own thread. Besides, there is, as of yet, no solid confirmation that it's an SQ order. -ir

aemoreira1981 · Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:21 am

MrHMSH wrote:
The size makes me think it could be IAG for BA. Not sure why they'd not want to be identified, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's it.

Or maybe a split between BA and IB? IB would do better with the 777-8 as A340-600 replacements. BA could use a mix of 777-9s to replace 744s.

PlanesNTrains · Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:21 am

IslandRob wrote:
zeke wrote:
Could I suggest then this discussion gets moved to the existing thread that is already 5 pages long.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1355111

That thread is ancient. Today's development is better discussed in its own thread. Besides, there is, as of yet, no solid confirmation that it's an SQ order. -ir

Short of a written announcement card, it's hard to imagine that it's not for SQ. 20 777X and 19 787s - that's exactly what SQ committed to in February. YMMV.

77west · Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:37 am

SQ. Would not be NZ, thats too many, unless it was 20 777-X options across both -8 and -9.

BoeingVista · Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:51 am

MrHMSH wrote:
The size makes me think it could be IAG for BA. Not sure why they'd not want to be identified, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's it.

For the last couple of IAG orders board approval has preceded the order so I'd say no.

77west wrote:
SQ. Would not be NZ, thats too many, unless it was 20 777-X options across both -8 and -9.

Way too many for NZ, SQ sounds about right or maybe Saudi.

OneSexyL1011 · Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:59 am

United ordered them but are waiting to announce it until they announce the A350 order cancellation first...

:stirthepot:

Boeing778X · Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:43 pm

jfk777 wrote:
20 777-9 could be flown by so many but who ? Air France, Qantas, JAL, Air Canada, Korean Air, or Turkish Air.

I could make my 777X customer list again, but all of those carriers are potential 777X customers, particularly AF and KE.

anshabhi · Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:19 pm

Polot wrote:
edit: Just saw what Stitch posted in the Order thread, has to be SQ since 19 787s are also under the UFO category.

SQ probably just didn't want to share the spotlight in Paris.[/quote]
They are a listed company, and their most recent results were not good.
I expect them to go public, once they post good results.

Whalejet wrote:
What about Vistara? I've heard rumblings that they wanted 777Xs, a large amount.

Vistara's owner - Tata and SQ are in talks with Indian govt to buy AI. Don't expect any order Vistara in near future. If they are successful in acquiring AI, then there won't be the Vistara brand itself. It will be merged into AI.

jfk777 · Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:06 pm

anshabhi wrote:
Polot wrote:
edit: Just saw what Stitch posted in the Order thread, has to be SQ since 19 787s are also under the UFO category.

SQ probably just didn't want to share the spotlight in Paris.

They are a listed company, and their most recent results were not good.
I expect them to go public, once they post good results.

Whalejet wrote:
What about Vistara? I've heard rumblings that they wanted 777Xs, a large amount.

Vistara's owner - Tata and SQ are in talks with Indian govt to buy AI. Don't expect any order Vistara in near future. If they are successful in acquiring AI, then there won't be the Vistara brand itself. It will be merged into AI.[/quote]

WHY would Singapore Airlines want to buy Air India with all its political baggage and Labor issues ? AI has always been a political football and eventually labor will complain that they are getting the "shaft". If the Indian Government takes over the pension liabilities and gives Singapore a clean start airline that is another more positive matter. Given the recent history of large foreign companies in India like Vodafone, I would avoid Air India.

sunrisevalley · Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:12 pm

My take on the report is that there are 10 UFO 777X not 20. The SQ order is still to be entered since the details are still to be finalized. This raises the question who is the customer for the 10 UFO's . NZ?

Polot · Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:17 pm

sunrisevalley wrote:
My take on the report is that there are 10 UFO 777X not 20. The SQ order is still to be entered since the details are still to be finalized. This raises the question who is the customer for the 10 UFO's . NZ?

No, it is quite clear that it is 20 777Xs. Boeing has 33 777 orders ytd. 1 777F for FX (Jan), 8 UFO 77W (March), 4 77W for UA (last week), and these 20 777Xs (last week).

These 20 77Xs were ordered the same time as 19 UFO 787s. That matches SQ's LOI perfectly. I don't know why it is up for discussion on who they belong to.

whywhyzee · Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:41 pm

AC is currently building a hangar at YYZ specifically to meet the dimensions of the 777-9, could be them ordering it, 20 seems like a reasonable number to start with.

anshabhi · Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:47 pm

jfk777 wrote:
WHY would Singapore Airlines want to buy Air India with all its political baggage and Labor issues ? AI has always been a political football and eventually labor will complain that they are getting the "shaft". If the Indian Government takes over the pension liabilities and gives Singapore a clean start airline that is another more positive matter. Given the recent history of large foreign companies in India like Vodafone, I would avoid Air India.

Tata/SQ have for long wanted to buy AI. There's a big history behind it. This is the most consise article on it:
http://www.hindustantimes.com/business- ... NaapL.html

Yeah. debt write off to the tune of $4-5 billion is a part of the talks.

Off topic but, Vodafone is not the only foreign company in India, and their largest subscriber base and 4G network is in India.

Ronaldo747 · Tue Jun 27, 2017 4:56 pm

It's indeed Singapore Airlines

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/custom ... order.page

jbs2886 · Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:09 pm

Ronaldo747 wrote:
It's indeed Singapore Airlines

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/custom ... order.page

No that's an old PR about the commitment, not order. It may very well be Singapore, but until its revealed, this is just (supported) speculation.

PlanesNTrains · Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:36 pm

Polot wrote:
sunrisevalley wrote:
My take on the report is that there are 10 UFO 777X not 20. The SQ order is still to be entered since the details are still to be finalized. This raises the question who is the customer for the 10 UFO's . NZ?

No, it is quite clear that it is 20 777Xs. Boeing has 33 777 orders ytd. 1 777F for FX (Jan), 8 UFO 77W (March), 4 77W for UA (last week), and these 20 777Xs (last week).

These 20 77Xs were ordered the same time as 19 UFO 787s. That matches SQ's LOI perfectly. I don't know why it is up for discussion on who they belong to.

I laughed out loud at that, which BTW I appreciated, because you know the speculation will continue. I usually try to be conservative in these types of discussions because I don't want to come off close-minded, but in this case it seems pretty obvious. :-)

sunrisevalley · Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:58 pm

Polot wrote:
No, it is quite clear that it is 20 777Xs. Boeing has 33 777 orders ytd. 1 777F for FX (Jan), 8 UFO 77W (March), 4 77W for UA (last week), and these 20 777Xs (last week).

With respect, If you go to the orders report dated June 23rd , sorted by model you will see 10 777X in the unid order column and the same number in the Unfilled unid order column. The SQ order was subsequent to that and will not be entered until the deal is finalised.

Polot · Tue Jun 27, 2017 8:07 pm

sunrisevalley wrote:
Polot wrote:
No, it is quite clear that it is 20 777Xs. Boeing has 33 777 orders ytd. 1 777F for FX (Jan), 8 UFO 77W (March), 4 77W for UA (last week), and these 20 777Xs (last week).

With respect, If you go to the orders report dated June 23rd , sorted by model you will see 10 777X in the unid order column and the same number in the Unfilled unid order column. The SQ order was subsequent to that and will not be entered until the deal is finalised.

That is an order from June 4 2015 (I think speculation at the time was that it is EY's?).

The only part of Boeing's orders reports that is fully up to date is the default net orders page. The database used for the rest of the report options is only updated monthly and currently only runs through May (as it says on the top of the report by model page).

817Dreamliiner · Tue Jun 27, 2017 8:13 pm

sunrisevalley wrote:
Polot wrote:
No, it is quite clear that it is 20 777Xs. Boeing has 33 777 orders ytd. 1 777F for FX (Jan), 8 UFO 77W (March), 4 77W for UA (last week), and these 20 777Xs (last week).

With respect, If you go to the orders report dated June 23rd , sorted by model you will see 10 777X in the unid order column and the same number in the Unfilled unid order column. The SQ order was subsequent to that and will not be entered until the deal is finalised.

The order numbers are only updated at the end of the month and are showing the orders as of the end of May. None of the June orders have been added yet. Once they are updated you will see this order for 20 added in addition to the 10 that you see listed.

bill142 · Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:49 pm

This is a joint VA-EY order.

RayChuang · Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:59 pm

It'll be interesting to see where SQ assigns the 777-9's. My guess: routes to the USA.

ZK-NBT · Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:10 am

RayChuang wrote:
It'll be interesting to see where SQ assigns the 777-9's. My guess: routes to the USA.

Possibly some US routes. But 20 frames is to many for that only. These will likely replace 77W's, so busiest 77W routes and some quieter A380 routes where maybe the A380 isn't full year round.

AKL gets seasonal A380's I think that's the only route SYD/MEL get less of them some quieter times of the year and CDG will lose them for the NW17/18 but this possibly is just because a few leases expire before the new aircraft arrive.

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