Interesting that this has come up -

Fiji Airways (FJ, Nadi) has begun reviewing its wide body fleet renewal options CAPA has reported referencing airline sources. Operating a fleet of three A330-200s and one A330-300, the Fijian carrier is said to be looking at both the A350 from Airbus and B787 from Boeing for its future requirements.

Fiji Airways currently uses its A330s to serve New Zealand, Singapore, Hong Kong, the US mainland, Australia, and Tonga. However, the addition of the new wide body jets would enable growth into the Chinese and Japanese markets while boosting its San Francisco, CA frequencies from the current 3x weekly, to daily.

back when they were Air Pacific they ordered 10x 787's and then cancelled wonder which way they will swing? the fact that they want to add China and Japan to the network, means a nice order of say 8-10 aircraft, no timeframe given on when..

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... al-options

I think they go the Air Tahiti Nui route and go for the 787-9.

Didn't they just get their 330s though?

DTWorld wrote:

Didn't they just get their 330s though?

That's what I thought too! Are they not happy with the A330s?

Their A332s were delivered in 2013, received 1 A333 in 2015. Pretty interesting development here that the 330neo isn't in the running.

I posted this in the pacific aviation thread the other day.

I'm a wee bit surprised by this, there was talk of another A330 a while ago, they had 3 A332's originally then added the sole A333, I would say another A333 or 2 maybe first. I almost wonder if this is hot air and nothing comes of it atleast for some time.

They seem to like the A330's, certainly a better fit than the 744's atleast allowing them more frequency and options to open new routes ie SIN and hopefully a return to NRT and a flight to PVG.

ZK-NBT wrote:

I posted this in the pacific aviation thread the other day.

I'm a wee bit surprised by this, there was talk of another A330 a while ago, they had 3 A332's originally then added the sole A333, I would say another A333 or 2 maybe first. I almost wonder if this is hot air and nothing comes of it atleast for some time.

They seem to like the A330's, certainly a better fit than the 744's atleast allowing them more frequency and options to open new routes ie SIN and hopefully a return to NRT and a flight to PVG.

This does seem unnecessary expenditure. Would some second hand 330s, or leased not make more sense? 2x332 and another 333. Add PVG, SIN, NRT, upgauge MEL, increase SFO - then level out and sustain that capacity for a while?

smi0006 wrote:

ZK-NBT wrote:

I posted this in the pacific aviation thread the other day.

I'm a wee bit surprised by this, there was talk of another A330 a while ago, they had 3 A332's originally then added the sole A333, I would say another A333 or 2 maybe first. I almost wonder if this is hot air and nothing comes of it atleast for some time.

They seem to like the A330's, certainly a better fit than the 744's atleast allowing them more frequency and options to open new routes ie SIN and hopefully a return to NRT and a flight to PVG.

This does seem unnecessary expenditure. Would some second hand 330s, or leased not make more sense? 2x332 and another 333. Add PVG, SIN, NRT, upgauge MEL, increase SFO - then level out and sustain that capacity for a while?

I agree, sorry I meant they have already added SIN, 2 weekly I think.

They have already ordered 5 738MAX to replace the 5 current 737's, I thought they might have ordered 1-2 more to increase flights and offer better connections to places like MEL/BNE where some BNE and all MEL flights operate in the evening, this does increase utilisation though.

They also just brought a 737 MAX simulator which is interesting and another expense.

ikolkyo wrote:

Pretty interesting development here that the 330neo isn't in the running.

That's the part that I find surprising.

But, like others have said: I'll believe any of this when the aircraft pulls up to the gate.
If I had to place money, I'd say that they eventually just go with used A330CEOs and call it a day.

I'd say the 789 is in for an chance, with decent support in the Pacific for the type e.g access to MX in SYD and AKL.

Then again if NZ gets the A350 to replace the 777 fleet, that could help swing there choice.

zkncj wrote:

I'd say the 789 is in for an chance, with decent support in the Pacific for the type e.g access to MX in SYD and AKL.

Then again if NZ gets the A350 to replace the 777 fleet, that could help swing there choice.

I think they already get their fleet done at HAECO,Hong Kong. In which case an A350 is no issue at all.

zkncj wrote:

I'd say the 789 is in for an chance, with decent support in the Pacific for the type e.g access to MX in SYD and AKL.

Then again if NZ gets the A350 to replace the 777 fleet, that could help swing there choice.

They ordered 787's then changed to A330's which were cheaper and still a great fit for them, with such a small young fleet like I said earlier I'm pretty surprised they are looking to replace the A330's so soon even if it is 4-5 years before something new is delivered. Maybe they are leased? With the cost of then going 787 I can't see them going that way, A350's for mine but more A330's seem more likely weather CEO's or NEO's.

If they need range adding a few A330-800 would be the least costly option, lowest investment no retraining of crew, and could even be earlier available than a 787 or A350.

They'll probably sell the A330's. Delta may be interested in used widebodies that are only a few years old. Then again nobody said they were getting rid of them. Maybe they want to expand with other aircraft because the A330 doesn't have sufficient range for their next routes, or a 787 would be more economical on longer routes like LAX or SFO, and they'll use that for those routes and some other long ones and use the A330 to China and Japan.

OA940 wrote:

They'll probably sell the A330's. Delta may be interested in used widebodies that are only a few years old. Then again nobody said they were getting rid of them. Maybe they want to expand with other aircraft because the A330 doesn't have sufficient range for their next routes, or a 787 would be more economical on longer routes like LAX or SFO, and they'll use that for those routes and some other long ones and use the A330 to China and Japan.

I can't think of any routes that FJ would want to fly that the A330 can't service...

Wow there's a distinct lack of imagination here. That, or condescension at a mere island airline. Given Air Fiji is now a fairly successful operation I'd give them the benefit of the doubt that they understand their needs more than most. For all we know they have terrible lease rates on the 330s or want to avoid impending maintenance or... whatever.

I'd also put the 789 at the front of the list given major shareholder Qantas will be basing much of its longhaul future around the type, there will be plenty of local mx support and it offers more suitable capacity options to FJ's needs. The 338 is likely dead meaning the 330neo is a one capacity family (orphan?), the 358 is also dead and the 359 is probably a little much in size unless they split 359R and 359LR, which is possible.

In terms of expansion, Samoa is now in the mix with a deal pending there with the government, likely opening up some long hauls. Then throw in a handful of new routes, frequency increases and the likelihood deliveries would be spread out over several years, and it seems like pretty organic growth to me.

787 has always been the best option for Fiji. It was so back then when it made its first order, and it still is now. The -8 would allow them to open new and smaller markets in China and Japan, the -9 can be used for most of the existing routes, while it can add one or two -10 for LAX.

It makes no sense to this armchair airline CEO why they would switch away from the A330 to the B787. They have experience and training in the type. Pick up some used ones and enjoy.

If Boeing's MoM have 5000nm real world range then that probably fit their need.

Qantas16 wrote:

OA940 wrote:

They'll probably sell the A330's. Delta may be interested in used widebodies that are only a few years old. Then again nobody said they were getting rid of them. Maybe they want to expand with other aircraft because the A330 doesn't have sufficient range for their next routes, or a 787 would be more economical on longer routes like LAX or SFO, and they'll use that for those routes and some other long ones and use the A330 to China and Japan.

I can't think of any routes that FJ would want to fly that the A330 can't service...

Ditto that. It's not likely they will want to serve the US east coast or Europe. It is odd they opted out of the 787 order and apparently may be looking again.

DfwAussie wrote:

It is odd they opted out of the 787 order and apparently may be looking again.

Apparently posters are forgetting the problems Boeing had with the 787. FJ cancelled their 787's because of the multi-year delay the 787 had coming on line, and FJ needed to replaced the 747's. Airbus offered them a sweet deal, able to deliver in a certain time frame and the rest is history. Seems to me, after flying FJ a couple of times on the 332 between LAX-NAN this aircraft is perfect for this service and it is more comfortable in coach than a 787 is. Besides FJ is the only international carrier that I know of that serves Jimmy Dean Breakfast Sandwiches prior to arrival.

910A wrote:

DfwAussie wrote:

It is odd they opted out of the 787 order and apparently may be looking again.

Apparently posters are forgetting the problems Boeing had with the 787. FJ cancelled their 787's because of the multi-year delay the 787 had coming on line, and FJ needed to replaced the 747's. Airbus offered them a sweet deal, able to deliver in a certain time frame and the rest is history. Seems to me, after flying FJ a couple of times on the 332 between LAX-NAN this aircraft is perfect for this service and it is more comfortable in coach than a 787 is. Besides FJ is the only international carrier that I know of that serves Jimmy Dean Breakfast Sandwiches prior to arrival.

I won't hold it against FJ for serving Jimmy Dean sausage. Dp hope they look at 787s again.

If FJ are looking for a widebody aircraft for expansion the the A338 and A339 are probably the best aircraft for them IMHO..

Honestly, the A330-200s are perfect for FJ. I don't see them changing any time soon, though that's not to say that they won't add the odd second hand -200 or -300.

ZK-NBT wrote:

I posted this in the pacific aviation thread the other day.

I'm a wee bit surprised by this, there was talk of another A330 a while ago, they had 3 A332's originally then added the sole A333, I would say another A333 or 2 maybe first. I almost wonder if this is hot air and nothing comes of it atleast for some time.

They seem to like the A330's, certainly a better fit than the 744's atleast allowing them more frequency and options to open new routes ie SIN and hopefully a return to NRT and a flight to PVG.

correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the 2 FJ 744's, ex AN(SQ) birds?

When Ansett fell over 1 day after SEP11, no one wanted any aircraft, esp. old 744's. I think FJ got the deal from hell, leasing them from SQ. There have been reports of a glut of aircraft on the world scene soon. Suggest FJ might be looking for a deal on an A330 or 2, rather than looking at a new type.

Why would they go second-hand A330's (as others have suggested) when the wide-body market is so slow ATM and manufacturers are very flexible when it comes to cutting deals.

Anyhow, this is future-casting by the airline at best. Their current A330 fleet will be with them for sometime to come.

Maybe QF group is looking for somewhere to park 787s because they are leaning towards an A350 order? They are a significant shareholder. What would be the motive for a substantial wide body fleet reshuffle otherwise? I agree with previous posts that i can't see what an A332/ A333 can't do in the current and projected network and the fleet is - as has been said - young. Can't see a market for NAN-JFK, for instance. South America would be a hell of a long shot.

Motorhussy wrote:

Why would they go second-hand A330's (as others have suggested) when the wide-body market is so slow ATM and manufacturers are very flexible when it comes to cutting deals.

Anyhow, this is future-casting by the airline at best. Their current A330 fleet will be with them for sometime to come.

because of the glut of aircraft, lease rates must be very low on some aircraft. Think FJ took an ex Air Berlin 738 a while back. If they got a deal on an A330, like they got with the SQ 744's, they wouldn't have to work it hard.

Currently they have an extra flight NAN/SFO in DEC-JAN departing NAN at 0700, which is probably not ideal timing, but it doesn't sit on the ground at SFO for long. 90 minutes I think it is.

Air Berlin has a few A330's which can't be in high demand. Surely there would be some very attractive lease rates on these buses ?

OA940 wrote:

Delta may be interested in used widebodies that are only a few years old.

This is getting old, especially since the only A330 engine type that DL doesn't have is the T700 ones, which is what the FJ birds have.

USAOZ wrote:

Air Berlin has a few A330's which can't be in high demand. Surely there would be some very attractive lease rates on these buses ?

But those birds have the PW engines when the FJ ones have T700s. Given FJ's small fleet I don't think it's a good idea.

Back to the topic, personally I would only believe it when the plane pulls into the gate at NAN, just like some other posters commented. Their fleets are rather young, and they seems to be happy beforehand. Even if the bird's leased I doubt the length are only 8 years (more likely to be 10-12 years, but that's just my guess). Let's see how it goes.

Cheers
Michael

Even if FJ do decide to change their fleet, it's not like the new aircraft are going to start arriving tomorrow. An order in the next year maybe for deliveries in 3-4 years. They may just be looking to take advantage of whatever pricing is available now in what is meant to be a down turn in demand for wide bodies.

The thing about this whole thing is that the 330s were bought when an old CEO was in charge of Fiji Air. The Boeings were a much better option at the time but the CEO took a large "backhand" for purchasing the 330s then quit the role shortly after they were delivered.

The 330s arent able to fly to LAX or SFO with a fully loaded aircraft and the new CEO realises this and is trying to clean up the mess that was left for him when he arrived. They are probably going to keep the 330s and operate them to AUK or SYD and the new 737's from Fiji's smaller airport Nausori to these destinations while using the 350s or 787s to Asia and US as they will be able to fly with a full load.

ChartersJack wrote:

The thing about this whole thing is that the 330s were bought when an old CEO was in charge of Fiji Air. The Boeings were a much better option at the time but the CEO took a large "backhand" for purchasing the 330s then quit the role shortly after they were delivered.

The 330s arent able to fly to LAX or SFO with a fully loaded aircraft and the new CEO realises this and is trying to clean up the mess that was left for him when he arrived. They are probably going to keep the 330s and operate them to AUK or SYD and the new 737's from Fiji's smaller airport Nausori to these destinations while using the 350s or 787s to Asia and US as they will be able to fly with a full load.

The A332 would carry a full load LAX/SFO-NAN. The A333 might take a bit of a hit.

If anything they will IMO lease additional A333's for more uplift to the US with the A332's going to more Asian cities.

USAOZ wrote:

Air Berlin has a few A330's which can't be in high demand. Surely there would be some very attractive lease rates on these buses ?

Those would likely be 233t frames. FJ's frames are likely 238t. Is the extra MTOW critical to do SFO-NAN?

So long as HA is an A338 customer, what about that model? 6-7 might be good:

aemoreira1981 wrote:

USAOZ wrote:

Air Berlin has a few A330's which can't be in high demand. Surely there would be some very attractive lease rates on these buses ?

Those would likely be 233t frames. FJ's frames are likely 238t. Is the extra MTOW critical to do SFO-NAN?

So long as HA is an A338 customer, what about that model? 6-7 might be good:

IMHO the engine options would likely be more critical given AB's birds are all PW-engined while FJ's one use RR.

ZK-NBT wrote:

ChartersJack wrote:

The thing about this whole thing is that the 330s were bought when an old CEO was in charge of Fiji Air. The Boeings were a much better option at the time but the CEO took a large "backhand" for purchasing the 330s then quit the role shortly after they were delivered.

The 330s arent able to fly to LAX or SFO with a fully loaded aircraft and the new CEO realises this and is trying to clean up the mess that was left for him when he arrived. They are probably going to keep the 330s and operate them to AUK or SYD and the new 737's from Fiji's smaller airport Nausori to these destinations while using the 350s or 787s to Asia and US as they will be able to fly with a full load.

The A332 would carry a full load LAX/SFO-NAN. The A333 might take a bit of a hit.

If anything they will IMO lease additional A333's for more uplift to the US with the A332's going to more Asian cities.

The A333 has MTOW of 242t so I would bet they should be good for a 11h journey. Alternatively they can always rotate the bird to HKG/SIN/SYD to minimise any payload restriction.

Michael

eamondzhang wrote:

aemoreira1981 wrote:

USAOZ wrote:

Air Berlin has a few A330's which can't be in high demand. Surely there would be some very attractive lease rates on these buses ?

Those would likely be 233t frames. FJ's frames are likely 238t. Is the extra MTOW critical to do SFO-NAN?

So long as HA is an A338 customer, what about that model? 6-7 might be good:

IMHO the engine options would likely be more critical given AB's birds are all PW-engined while FJ's one use RR.

ZK-NBT wrote:

ChartersJack wrote:

The thing about this whole thing is that the 330s were bought when an old CEO was in charge of Fiji Air. The Boeings were a much better option at the time but the CEO took a large "backhand" for purchasing the 330s then quit the role shortly after they were delivered.

The 330s arent able to fly to LAX or SFO with a fully loaded aircraft and the new CEO realises this and is trying to clean up the mess that was left for him when he arrived. They are probably going to keep the 330s and operate them to AUK or SYD and the new 737's from Fiji's smaller airport Nausori to these destinations while using the 350s or 787s to Asia and US as they will be able to fly with a full load.

The A332 would carry a full load LAX/SFO-NAN. The A333 might take a bit of a hit.

If anything they will IMO lease additional A333's for more uplift to the US with the A332's going to more Asian cities.

The A333 has MTOW of 242t so I would bet they should be good for a 11h journey. Alternatively they can always rotate the bird to HKG/SIN/SYD to minimise any payload restriction.

Michael

heard a story that the SQ 744's FJ got after SEP11, FJ got at incredible terms, but when FJ ordered the B787's their delivery was planned for when the leases on the 2 SQ birds was up, BUT the long delays on the B787s caused FJ to look around for other options & they came up with the A330's.

I would not be surprised to see FJ go the way of the 789. However, I personally think the 339 is the perfect bird.

eamondzhang wrote:

OA940 wrote:

Delta may be interested in used widebodies that are only a few years old.

This is getting old, especially since the only A330 engine type that DL doesn't have is the T700 ones, which is what the FJ birds have.

USAOZ wrote:

Air Berlin has a few A330's which can't be in high demand. Surely there would be some very attractive lease rates on these buses ?

But those birds have the PW engines when the FJ ones have T700s. Given FJ's small fleet I don't think it's a good idea.

Back to the topic, personally I would only believe it when the plane pulls into the gate at NAN, just like some other posters commented. Their fleets are rather young, and they seems to be happy beforehand. Even if the bird's leased I doubt the length are only 8 years (more likely to be 10-12 years, but that's just my guess). Let's see how it goes.

Cheers
Michael

does it really matter if FJ could get a deal on used A330's that don't have the same engines ? QF used to have a 744 fleet with mix of RR & GE engines. (think the GE engined birds came from another airline used)

QF bought 3 GE 744s from Asiana. Then they switched to GE on their 747-400ER order and these GE birds will be the last to leave the QF fleet.

[quote="NZ321"]QF bought 3 GE 744s from Asiana. Then they switched to GE on their 747-400ER order and these GE birds will be the last to leave the QF fleet.

Actually only VH-OEB was an ex Asiana aircraft, the other two VH-OEC and VH-OED, were ex Malaysia Airlines.

USAOZ wrote:

does it really matter if FJ could get a deal on used A330's that don't have the same engines ? QF used to have a 744 fleet with mix of RR & GE engines. (think the GE engined birds came from another airline used)

It doesn't matter for QF cause they've got 767 which has a similar engine (both are CF6-80 series) whereas FJ doesn't have any PW's in the fleet (nor in South Pacific region). In addition, QF has the fleet size and money, and they got the GE-engined 744ERs soon afterwards, as others mentioned; FJ on the other hand has none of these.

Michael

NZ321 wrote:

Maybe QF group is looking for somewhere to park 787s because they are leaning towards an A350 order? They are a significant shareholder. What would be the motive for a substantial wide body fleet reshuffle otherwise? I agree with previous posts that i can't see what an A332/ A333 can't do in the current and projected network and the fleet is - as has been said - young. Can't see a market for NAN-JFK, for instance. South America would be a hell of a long shot.

Fiji Airways has plenty of undeveloped routes in Asia reachable by A330's. They need to fly as often as they can to as many cities in Japan, Korea, China. Singapore, Hong Kong and Malaysia. Flying to other US west coast cities could be a way to expand there. The last thing this small airline needs are routes to South America, JFK or London. There are nearly two billion people 10 hours flying time to Fiji, that is Fiji Air's mission.

Hey guys,
I can see a fleet of about six Dreamliners at Fiji Airways.... Three each of the -9 and -10 models. The -10s could operate prime Australian and NZ routes with the -9s operating longer routes to the US and Asia. An expanded fleet of MAXs including -10s could cover the Pacific plus secondary Australia and NZ routes.
Yes I can see an alternate order for A330neos being made but I really can't see A350s joining Fiji Airways.....
Cheers,
Bunumuring

Don't forget we're talking about an airline with a jet fleet you can count on two hands and even have a finger to spare! There is no way they can sustain odd engined subfleets or an additional widebody type.

Part of this makes me think it's just the Fiji govt. having a look at their options for the when the A330 leases expire. I expect the A330 leases will be renewed and any widebody expansion will be in the form of adding additional Trent 700 engined A330s one at time as they become available.

bunumuring wrote:

Hey guys,
I can see a fleet of about six Dreamliners at Fiji Airways.... Three each of the -9 and -10 models. The -10s could operate prime Australian and NZ routes with the -9s operating longer routes to the US and Asia. An expanded fleet of MAXs including -10s could cover the Pacific plus secondary Australia and NZ routes.
Yes I can see an alternate order for A330neos being made but I really can't see A350s joining Fiji Airways.....
Cheers,
Bunumuring

If you pay closely to their widebody rotation between Au/NZ and NAN you'll find that most of them are utilising the downtime between long haul flights, especially the USA ones. They won't be having a widebody type flying solely within the region - and that would be a good way of burning money.

I personally still holds doubt about the 787-10's range and if that is indeed not enough for a 12h trip, I don't think we'll see -10 in FJ's fleet anytime soon; although I wouldn't discount -9 for sure.

Michael