I did not find any information on the forum about this otherwise can the moderator please delete this.
According to Dutch newspaper AD ( http://www.ad.nl/buitenland/vrouwen-mog ... ~a4388d0c/ ) ElAl lost a court case from a holocaust survivor who was (forced) to change seats as a ultra-Orthodox Jew refused to sit next to her.
When the lady was in her seat (New-York to Israel) a ultra-orthodox Jew noticed that his seat would next to hers and he refused to sit there after the FA requested the lady to move seats which she did.
After the flight she asked the captain about this and he informed her that it was instructed from the airline management to move passengers in this situation.
According to the court this meant that the (forced) moving of passenger was company policy which is not allowed according anti discrimination laws.
ElAl is not allowed anymore to ask people to move for religious reasons.

It was also posted this morning on the Times of Israel mobile web site.

Good decision, as far as I'm concerned. I fly to Israel often, and the Haredim create problems on EVERY flight, not only El Al, but Delta and United too. The difference is that the U.S. carriers don't allow any of their nonsense, but El Al caves in to their wishes. Hopefully this ruling will put an end to it.

I'm glad to hear that. It's public transport at the end of the day, if you don't want to risk being sat next to someone get your own plane or put up.

I'm sure their plastic bag supplier will be happy

kjeld0d wrote:

I'm sure their plastic bag supplier will be happy

Is that for real...?!

THY748i wrote:

kjeld0d wrote:

I'm sure their plastic bag supplier will be happy

Is that for real...?!

Something to do with overflying a cemetery

El Al should just eliminate advance seat assignments and only assign them at the airport and thus can be mindful of special requirements of their clients.

Significant ruling on the Israeli end. The courts in the USA would make the same ruling as well. This is not insignificant for LY as NYC to TLV is 1/3 of their traffic. Now hopefully soon, LY will be allowed to fly on Saturday and major Jewish holidays.

mercure1 wrote:

El Al should just eliminate advance seat assignments and only assign them at the airport and thus can be mindful of special requirements of their clients.

Even on El Al, they represent a small minority. Why should everyone else be punished with not being able to reserve seats ahead of time just because of these few...how do I put it nicely...extremely picky clients?

ASQ400 wrote:

THY748i wrote:

kjeld0d wrote:

I'm sure their plastic bag supplier will be happy

Is that for real...?!

Something to do with overflying a cemetery

Is that even allowed?
I would think that this could hinder a evacuation during a emergency.

thaiflyer wrote:

ASQ400 wrote:

THY748i wrote:

Is that for real...?!

Something to do with overflying a cemetery

Is that even allowed?
I would think that this could hinder a evacuation during a emergency.

It shouldn't be, but LY let him. They need to get their faces out of the Hareidis' arses

kjeld0d wrote:

I'm sure their plastic bag supplier will be happy

Just when you think you have seen it all LMAO !

sw733 wrote:

mercure1 wrote:

El Al should just eliminate advance seat assignments and only assign them at the airport and thus can be mindful of special requirements of their clients.

Even on El Al, they represent a small minority. Why should everyone else be punished with not being able to reserve seats ahead of time just because of these few...how do I put it nicely...extremely picky clients?

OA260 wrote:

kjeld0d wrote:

I'm sure their plastic bag supplier will be happy

Just when you think you have seen it all LMAO !

When they're not right next to you, Hareidis are hilarious

You'd think anybody that backward wouldn't consider using a modern form of transportation. Admittedly, it's tough to do TATL oxcarts.

Ridiculous that it ever got away with this in the first place.

THY748i wrote:

kjeld0d wrote:

I'm sure their plastic bag supplier will be happy

Is that for real...?!

Can't see exactly who/what is under that plastic bag. An Orthodox Jew, so he doesn't have to be in contact with a stranger next to him? A woman?

And how on earth does that person breathe?? Why would the airline let people do something like this? Is a medical problem waiting to happen

mozart wrote:

THY748i wrote:

kjeld0d wrote:

I'm sure their plastic bag supplier will be happy

Is that for real...?!

Can't see exactly who/what is under that plastic bag. An Orthodox Jew, so he doesn't have to be in contact with a stranger next to him? A woman?

And how on earth does that person breathe?? Why would the airline let people do something like this? Is a medical problem waiting to happen

No it's because the plane flies over cemeteries or something about being above a cemetery and I assume there are some holes cut into it. In which point I'd think the ghosts could fly into the holes.

Apparently, it's to prevent problems should the aeroplane fly over a Jewish cemetery: the frummer concerned was named Cohen, therefore descended from the Hebrew priests, who are deemed to be rendered ritually impure if they enter or go over a Jewish cemetery, and the flight was likely to do the latter.

It sounds like cheating to me. If one believes in these things and if it says in the texts that going over a cemetery is forbidden, then it's forbidden; that's it, plastic bag or no plastic bag.

I don't think the plastic bag will do it if the metal tube itself isn't enough already.

I thought this problem of moving female passengers around, to not impinge on the religious sensibilities of male ultra orthodox passengers, has been also a problem on other airlines on flights between New York and Tel Aviv.

This is one of the reasons to why I would never fly on El Al. Why did they allow this and tolerate it in the first place?

I think El Al needs to do more than many things in order to be competitive. First of all, it needs to fly seven days a week and stop bending over backwards for the religious community, which will most likely never happen. New airplanes are on the way, and El Al needs them as soon as possible. The current product seems pretty horrible. In conclusion, El Al is not a competitive airline.

kjeld0d wrote:

I'm sure their plastic bag supplier will be happy

In 2017 this silliness still happens.

Elementalism wrote:

kjeld0d wrote:

I'm sure their plastic bag supplier will be happy

In 2017 this silliness still happens.

Call me out of date. I had no idea this type of ignorance existed; and to think I thought the Southern Baptist were behind the times. I have much to learn, but I now know I'll never set foot on an El-Al aircraft.

We live in a world where people are still killing other people because they believe their imaginary friend is better than the other fella's imaginary friend. It is therefore no surprise that some crack pot is sat on a plane with a bin bag on his head or some other crack pot wont sit next to a woman so causes a fuss.

One day in the future people will not run their lives based on a few books detailing events from the middle east several thousand years ago. (Maybe even fictional events)

Braniff1 wrote:

In 2017 this silliness still happens.

Call me out of date. I had no idea this type of ignorance existed; and to think I thought the Southern Baptist were behind the times. I have much to learn, but I now know I'll never set foot on an El-Al aircraft.[/quote]

You would be amazed, it happens when a public service bows down to a extreme version of a religion (or heck, in QR stops serving alcohol during Ramadan, why a Muslim based airline can serve it any other time but not during a holy month is beyond me), however, Hareidis are a pain at the best of times, my wifes grandmother loves nothing more than getting into fights with them, along the lines of she survived a concentration camp, they can survive having to sit next to her for an hour....

And really, the only reason NOT to set foot on an ElAl flight is the product is crap, once the new fleet starts rolling in, they will be fine....

GBNWB wrote:

We live in a world where people are still killing other people because they believe their imaginary friend is better than the other fella's imaginary friend. It is therefore no surprise that some crack pot is sat on a plane with a bin bag on his head or some other crack pot wont sit next to a woman so causes a fuss.

One day in the future people will not run their lives based on a few books detailing events from the middle east several thousand years ago. (Maybe even fictional events)

You have bought the fiction that it's about imaginary friends. It's about world conquest. It's just using the term "religion" to mask a political ideology and protect it from proper scrutiny.

OK, this has been bugging me. I've been following this issue for a while, and am perplexed why the FA in this case (or others) would ask the woman - already seated, - to move, rather than simply moving the passenger who refused to take the assigned seat next to her?

I agree with other comments re the extreme religious views, but surely* the FA and/or other passengers would simply shrug and get on with it if a passenger asked to be moved (assuming there was space of course). Seems to be creating significant trouble for nothing.

YYZYYT

* ok, ok. I'll stop calling you Shirley.

DrPaul wrote:

Apparently, it's to prevent problems should the aeroplane fly over a Jewish cemetery: the frummer concerned was named Cohen, therefore descended from the Hebrew priests, who are deemed to be rendered ritually impure if they enter or go over a Jewish cemetery, and the flight was likely to do the latter.

It sounds like cheating to me. If one believes in these things and if it says in the texts that going over a cemetery is forbidden, then it's forbidden; that's it, plastic bag or no plastic bag.

Thank you for your unusually informed response to the gross ignorance expressed here.

The general rule for the Kohanim is that they not be under the same roof as a dead body----ever.
Not all Kohanim observe the rules, however, most do. You do not have to be a very religious Jew to observe a lot of the rules. It only stands out to non-Jews and those who are intolerant of the religious. It works both ways, you know. There are usually paved pathways in a Jewish cemetery so the feet of the Kohinim do not touch the soil. Many times the Kohanim will stand outside the cemetery gate or across the street and observe the service from a distance. They can attend the service of an Immediate family member and that's it. They can never touch the dead. Many Jewish funeral homes have a separate small building adjacent to their chapel with a closed circuit television system so the Kohanim can take part in the service.

I think the more interesting situation would be if an HR were also on the plane. There are plenty of flights with more than one on board.And, there are a lot of HR's transported to Israel. A kever in Jerusalem is quite a comforting thought to the religious.
Imagine if an HR were in the belly immediately below a Kohan! And don't think they don't think about it either!
I have a friend who is a Kohan and he freaks out just discussing the possibilities as he and his family frequently fly to and from Israel.

Me thinks there would not be too much fuss over this topic if it weren't El Al which is a Jewish airline.
There are many different countries whose carriers also rearrange the seating when needed.
I'm thinking not too many flaming queens are going to get preferred seating on Iran Air, for instance.
Israel, however, is the "gay Mecca" of the ME. I don't hear any squalling about how EL Al accommodates the party revelers on the way to Pride Tel Aviv. I know a transfer-gender person who went to Pride Tel Aviv some years ago and had a great time visiting with an Orthodox Rabbi in the same row.

Just 'sayin.

You don't have to go too far back in commercial aviation when it was commonplace to accommodate the religious of any faith. Many airlines did not serve alcoholic beverages on Sunday's and some didn't serve alcohol at all. A lot of flights didn't ops on Sunday's at all and a lot of large airports were ghost-towns on Sunday's. ATL comes to mind.

I think these days there is an intolerance of religious people, anyway. Most are not extremists.

aemoreira1981 wrote:

Significant ruling on the Israeli end. The courts in the USA would make the same ruling as well. This is not insignificant for LY as NYC to TLV is 1/3 of their traffic. Now hopefully soon, LY will be allowed to fly on Saturday and major Jewish holidays.

I thought since they privatised some years ago, they already can and tried to come up with a plan to fly on Saturday? But just that it seems like it would make cusgtomer + staffs unhappy + they are already using their plane for other purpose during that period so it did not happen.

The non-Jewish world does not seem to "get" how important the Sabbath is to Jewish people. Even secular Jews understand it.

By 4PM on a typical Friday, most of Israel looks like a ghost-town. Even Tel Aviv slows down.
Religious people are not willing to risk the wrath of Hashem by doing business with an El Al that is no longer "Shabbos shomer".

aemoreira1981 wrote:

Now hopefully soon, LY will be allowed to fly on Saturday and major Jewish holidays.

Since its 2004 privatization nothing is legally stopping El Al from flying on Saturdays.

However company has opted to observe the Sabbath as do other forms of public transit(bus/train) and as do many types of business in Israel. Its simply taboo owing to potentially losing key group of your clients.

Matter of fact El Al was threatened with boycott by rabbinical leaders of Orthodox community, an important source of revenue (est 20-30% of revenue by company) last decade when there was talk about it flying on weekends. At the end the company estimated it could lose USD $300mil by adding the Saturday services and its fallout, so it was a no brainier to stick to the commitment of observing Sabbath.

LAXintl wrote:

aemoreira1981 wrote:

Now hopefully soon, LY will be allowed to fly on Saturday and major Jewish holidays.

Since its 2004 privatization nothing is legally stopping El Al from flying on Saturdays.

However company has opted to observe the Sabbath as do other forms of public transit(bus/train) and as do many types of business in Israel. Its simply taboo owing to potentially losing key group of your clients.

Matter of fact El Al was threatened with boycott by rabbinical leaders of Orthodox community, an important source of revenue (est 20-30% of revenue by company) last decade when there was talk about it flying on weekends. At the end the company estimated it could lose USD $300mil by adding the Saturday services and its fallout, so it was a no brainier to stick to the commitment of observing Sabbath.

Under their own name, and that is something I should have added as a qualifier in my post. However, El Al does sometimes operate on behalf of Israir for Saturday and major Jewish holiday service (i.e., a once-weekly 6H TLV-JFK service could be done with a 6H code), or under the Sun D'Or brand.

ImperialEagle wrote:

Thank you for your unusually informed response to the gross ignorance expressed here.

The general rule for the Kohanim is that they not be under the same roof as a dead body----ever.
Not all Kohanim observe the rules, however, most do. You do not have to be a very religious Jew to observe a lot of the rules. It only stands out to non-Jews and those who are intolerant of the religious. It works both ways, you know. There are usually paved pathways in a Jewish cemetery so the feet of the Kohinim do not touch the soil. Many times the Kohanim will stand outside the cemetery gate or across the street and observe the service from a distance. They can attend the service of an Immediate family member and that's it. They can never touch the dead. Many Jewish funeral homes have a separate small building adjacent to their chapel with a closed circuit television system so the Kohanim can take part in the service.

I think the more interesting situation would be if an HR were also on the plane. There are plenty of flights with more than one on board.And, there are a lot of HR's transported to Israel. A kever in Jerusalem is quite a comforting thought to the religious.
Imagine if an HR were in the belly immediately below a Kohan! And don't think they don't think about it either!
I have a friend who is a Kohan and he freaks out just discussing the possibilities as he and his family frequently fly to and from Israel.

Me thinks there would not be too much fuss over this topic if it weren't El Al which is a Jewish airline.
There are many different countries whose carriers also rearrange the seating when needed.
I'm thinking not too many flaming queens are going to get preferred seating on Iran Air, for instance.
Israel, however, is the "gay Mecca" of the ME. I don't hear any squalling about how EL Al accommodates the party revelers on the way to Pride Tel Aviv. I know a transfer-gender person who went to Pride Tel Aviv some years ago and had a great time visiting with an Orthodox Rabbi in the same row.

Just 'sayin.

You don't have to go too far back in commercial aviation when it was commonplace to accommodate the religious of any faith. Many airlines did not serve alcoholic beverages on Sunday's and some didn't serve alcohol at all. A lot of flights didn't ops on Sunday's at all and a lot of large airports were ghost-towns on Sunday's. ATL comes to mind.

I think these days there is an intolerance of religious people, anyway. Most are not extremists.

Thanks for the explanation, very interesting.
But i have a question.
If those ultra-orthodox Jews don't like to be seated next to a female why does he not move then (or asked to be moved) instead of the female who did nothing wrong and is not part of his believe.

ImperialEagle wrote:

I think these days there is an intolerance of religious people, anyway. Most are not extremists.

IMHO there is an over tolerance of religious nuts' whims. They are the ones who should adapt, not the other way around. I work at a neighborhood filled with both hasidic jews and muslims in robes, as long as they behave, I'm fine with them.

I think this decision by KY was way overdue. Do they fly anywhere on saturdays?

PS: I went to a catholic school but couldn't care less about religion.

thaiflyer wrote:

ImperialEagle wrote:

Thank you for your unusually informed response to the gross ignorance expressed here.

The general rule for the Kohanim is that they not be under the same roof as a dead body----ever.
Not all Kohanim observe the rules, however, most do. You do not have to be a very religious Jew to observe a lot of the rules. It only stands out to non-Jews and those who are intolerant of the religious. It works both ways, you know. There are usually paved pathways in a Jewish cemetery so the feet of the Kohinim do not touch the soil. Many times the Kohanim will stand outside the cemetery gate or across the street and observe the service from a distance. They can attend the service of an Immediate family member and that's it. They can never touch the dead. Many Jewish funeral homes have a separate small building adjacent to their chapel with a closed circuit television system so the Kohanim can take part in the service.

I think the more interesting situation would be if an HR were also on the plane. There are plenty of flights with more than one on board.And, there are a lot of HR's transported to Israel. A kever in Jerusalem is quite a comforting thought to the religious.
Imagine if an HR were in the belly immediately below a Kohan! And don't think they don't think about it either!
I have a friend who is a Kohan and he freaks out just discussing the possibilities as he and his family frequently fly to and from Israel.

Me thinks there would not be too much fuss over this topic if it weren't El Al which is a Jewish airline.
There are many different countries whose carriers also rearrange the seating when needed.
I'm thinking not too many flaming queens are going to get preferred seating on Iran Air, for instance.
Israel, however, is the "gay Mecca" of the ME. I don't hear any squalling about how EL Al accommodates the party revelers on the way to Pride Tel Aviv. I know a transfer-gender person who went to Pride Tel Aviv some years ago and had a great time visiting with an Orthodox Rabbi in the same row.

Just 'sayin.

You don't have to go too far back in commercial aviation when it was commonplace to accommodate the religious of any faith. Many airlines did not serve alcoholic beverages on Sunday's and some didn't serve alcohol at all. A lot of flights didn't ops on Sunday's at all and a lot of large airports were ghost-towns on Sunday's. ATL comes to mind.

I think these days there is an intolerance of religious people, anyway. Most are not extremists.

Thanks for the explanation, very interesting.
But i have a question.
If those ultra-orthodox Jews don't like to be seated next to a female why does he not move then (or asked to be moved) instead of the female who did nothing wrong and is not part of his believe.

I think the male probably does initiate change by discussing it with a FA. The FA is going to decide who they ask to move. Even secular Jewish women understand the request.
What the public doesn't understand is that it is not a problem for a woman to be a woman. It is a problem of the "possibility" that a (married) man might be "tempted".

LAXintl wrote:

Matter of fact El Al was threatened with boycott by rabbinical leaders of Orthodox community, an important source of revenue (est 20-30% of revenue by company) last decade when there was talk about it flying on weekends. At the end the company estimated it could lose USD $300mil by adding the Saturday services and its fallout, so it was a no brainier to stick to the commitment of observing Sabbath.

I would have called there bluff, how else are these hardcore nutters going to fly, when other airlines also fly on Saturdays and would not be so accommodating to there religious needs. It would be hypocritical of them to change.

ImperialEagle wrote:

DrPaul wrote:

Apparently, it's to prevent problems should the aeroplane fly over a Jewish cemetery: the frummer concerned was named Cohen, therefore descended from the Hebrew priests, who are deemed to be rendered ritually impure if they enter or go over a Jewish cemetery, and the flight was likely to do the latter.

It sounds like cheating to me. If one believes in these things and if it says in the texts that going over a cemetery is forbidden, then it's forbidden; that's it, plastic bag or no plastic bag.

Thank you for your unusually informed response to the gross ignorance expressed here.

The general rule for the Kohanim is that they not be under the same roof as a dead body----ever.
Not all Kohanim observe the rules, however, most do. You do not have to be a very religious Jew to observe a lot of the rules. It only stands out to non-Jews and those who are intolerant of the religious. It works both ways, you know. There are usually paved pathways in a Jewish cemetery so the feet of the Kohinim do not touch the soil. Many times the Kohanim will stand outside the cemetery gate or across the street and observe the service from a distance. They can attend the service of an Immediate family member and that's it. They can never touch the dead. Many Jewish funeral homes have a separate small building adjacent to their chapel with a closed circuit television system so the Kohanim can take part in the service.

I think the more interesting situation would be if an HR were also on the plane. There are plenty of flights with more than one on board.And, there are a lot of HR's transported to Israel. A kever in Jerusalem is quite a comforting thought to the religious.
Imagine if an HR were in the belly immediately below a Kohan! And don't think they don't think about it either!
I have a friend who is a Kohan and he freaks out just discussing the possibilities as he and his family frequently fly to and from Israel.

Me thinks there would not be too much fuss over this topic if it weren't El Al which is a Jewish airline.
There are many different countries whose carriers also rearrange the seating when needed.
I'm thinking not too many flaming queens are going to get preferred seating on Iran Air, for instance.
Israel, however, is the "gay Mecca" of the ME. I don't hear any squalling about how EL Al accommodates the party revelers on the way to Pride Tel Aviv. I know a transfer-gender person who went to Pride Tel Aviv some years ago and had a great time visiting with an Orthodox Rabbi in the same row.

Just 'sayin.

You don't have to go too far back in commercial aviation when it was commonplace to accommodate the religious of any faith. Many airlines did not serve alcoholic beverages on Sunday's and some didn't serve alcohol at all. A lot of flights didn't ops on Sunday's at all and a lot of large airports were ghost-towns on Sunday's. ATL comes to mind.

I think these days there is an intolerance of religious people, anyway. Most are not extremists.

As strongly religious people, be it Christians, Moslems or Jews, especial males, are mostly extremely intolerant of other people views and behaviours, why should anybody be in inconvenienced by them? In this case an 80 year old female jew, KZ survivor, had to back before an extremely misogynistic intolerant view of a Haredi male feeling entitled.

One has to wonder too if some ultra-religious play a game, buy a cheaper seat then use the 'religious' reasons to get a preferred and more expensive seat.

I am quite sure that ElAl, like almost all other airlines, prices individual seats so moving a person from a higher priced and preferred seat to one that was lower priced and less preferred would create problems. With ElAl you have the issues of the base of the airline, the need for political and business reasons to accommodate.

Take-off checklist

Deuteronomy 1:1-12

Ye shall ask for His blessing on the righteous frequency, for on the wrong one ye shall not receive the clearance to line up.

And then G*d spoke: Ye shall set 90% N1 and a flap setting of 1, for if you decideth otherwise, you shall not leave earth with His blessing.

Probeth thy mind and thy conscience, for the righteous addition of ye fuel load and payload, for it is written...



David

Kiwirob wrote:

I would have called there bluff, how else are these hardcore nutters going to fly, when other airlines also fly on Saturdays and would not be so accommodating to there religious needs. It would be hypocritical of them to change.

I think you are missing the societal realities in Israel. Calling their bluff and flying on Sabbath would create a social storm, with discussions from one end of the country to another.

With a company that has rather meager profits, the risk of creating a fire storm including within its own unions, and potentially inciting the government also is simply not a risk not worth taking.

If you travel to Israel you will see much of the nation including transport sector shuts on Sabbath, so going against society 'norms' is not exactly the smartest thing for business to pursue.

ImperialEagle wrote:

thaiflyer wrote:

ImperialEagle wrote:

Thank you for your unusually informed response to the gross ignorance expressed here.

The general rule for the Kohanim is that they not be under the same roof as a dead body----ever.
Not all Kohanim observe the rules, however, most do. You do not have to be a very religious Jew to observe a lot of the rules. It only stands out to non-Jews and those who are intolerant of the religious. It works both ways, you know. There are usually paved pathways in a Jewish cemetery so the feet of the Kohinim do not touch the soil. Many times the Kohanim will stand outside the cemetery gate or across the street and observe the service from a distance. They can attend the service of an Immediate family member and that's it. They can never touch the dead. Many Jewish funeral homes have a separate small building adjacent to their chapel with a closed circuit television system so the Kohanim can take part in the service.

I think the more interesting situation would be if an HR were also on the plane. There are plenty of flights with more than one on board.And, there are a lot of HR's transported to Israel. A kever in Jerusalem is quite a comforting thought to the religious.
Imagine if an HR were in the belly immediately below a Kohan! And don't think they don't think about it either!
I have a friend who is a Kohan and he freaks out just discussing the possibilities as he and his family frequently fly to and from Israel.

Me thinks there would not be too much fuss over this topic if it weren't El Al which is a Jewish airline.
There are many different countries whose carriers also rearrange the seating when needed.
I'm thinking not too many flaming queens are going to get preferred seating on Iran Air, for instance.
Israel, however, is the "gay Mecca" of the ME. I don't hear any squalling about how EL Al accommodates the party revelers on the way to Pride Tel Aviv. I know a transfer-gender person who went to Pride Tel Aviv some years ago and had a great time visiting with an Orthodox Rabbi in the same row.

Just 'sayin.

You don't have to go too far back in commercial aviation when it was commonplace to accommodate the religious of any faith. Many airlines did not serve alcoholic beverages on Sunday's and some didn't serve alcohol at all. A lot of flights didn't ops on Sunday's at all and a lot of large airports were ghost-towns on Sunday's. ATL comes to mind.

I think these days there is an intolerance of religious people, anyway. Most are not extremists.

Thanks for the explanation, very interesting.
But i have a question.
If those ultra-orthodox Jews don't like to be seated next to a female why does he not move then (or asked to be moved) instead of the female who did nothing wrong and is not part of his believe.

I think the male probably does initiate change by discussing it with a FA. The FA is going to decide who they ask to move. Even secular Jewish women understand the request.
What the public doesn't understand is that it is not a problem for a woman to be a woman. It is a problem of the "possibility" that a (married) man might be "tempted".

The public doesn't need to understand, its not their problem.

mercure1 wrote:

Kiwirob wrote:

I would have called there bluff, how else are these hardcore nutters going to fly, when other airlines also fly on Saturdays and would not be so accommodating to there religious needs. It would be hypocritical of them to change.

I think you are missing the societal realities in Israel. Calling their bluff and flying on Sabbath would create a social storm, with discussions from one end of the country to another.

With a company that has rather meager profits, the risk of creating a fire storm including within its own unions, and potentially inciting the government also is simply not a risk not worth taking.

If you travel to Israel you will see much of the nation including transport sector shuts on Sabbath, so going against society 'norms' is not exactly the smartest thing for business to pursue.

I think a big part of the population would applaud El Al. I think a majority is quite tired of the dictates of the extreme religious. It is jut that their party is usually part of the government and demand concessions to provide a majority for the government.

ImperialEagle wrote:

Thank you for your unusually informed response to the gross ignorance expressed here.

The general rule for the Kohanim is that they not be under the same roof as a dead body----ever.
Not all Kohanim observe the rules, however, most do. You do not have to be a very religious Jew to observe a lot of the rules. It only stands out to non-Jews and those who are intolerant of the religious. It works both ways, you know.
(...)

I think these days there is an intolerance of religious people, anyway. Most are not extremists.

Somewhere else in this thread it is stated that some in the religious community threatened ElAl with a boycott if they started flying on Saturdays. That to me is intolerance - trying to force your own religious beliefs into the lives of other people. If someone does not want to fly or use an elevator on Sabbath, that is their problem. If they want to stop flights or stop elevators from working on Sabbath, we should make that their problem too, and a big one. No sympathy.

Forcing women to move or segregate them in the cabin sounds like something they would do in Saudi. Is that the type of country Israeli society would like to be lumped with?

Having noticed the occasional story about such cold-hearted acquiescence I'm very glad to see the ruling. Girls and women are subject to many endemic discriminations and outright abuses all around the world. Maybe increasingly so. All too often these are meekly accepted - exhalted even - in the name of tradition and culture.

Never had the chance to fly El Al but I hope I can someday.

Jet-lagged wrote:

Having noticed the occasional story about such cold-hearted acquiescence I'm very glad to see the ruling. Girls and women are subject to many endemic discriminations and outright abuses all around the world. Maybe increasingly so. All too often these are meekly accepted - exhalted even - in the name of tradition and culture.

Never had the chance to fly El Al but I hope I can someday.

As a father of daughters, I endorse your proposal. Nothing wrong with selling all male and all female seating. Asking a woman to move is an abuse. It is a discrimination.

Why are bronze age customs existing still? I'm ok with religion until it imposses on my family. This is very Saudi like...

Lightsaber

jimatkins wrote:

You'd think anybody that backward wouldn't consider using a modern form of transportation. Admittedly, it's tough to do TATL oxcarts.

Fully agree, people as backward as believing in creationism or no gender and race equality. Oh, half the American market just collapsed.

ImperialEagle wrote:

You don't have to go too far back in commercial aviation when it was commonplace to accommodate the religious of any faith. Many airlines did not serve alcoholic beverages on Sunday's and some didn't serve alcohol at all. A lot of flights didn't ops on Sunday's at all and a lot of large airports were ghost-towns on Sunday's. ATL comes to mind.

I think these days there is an intolerance of religious people, anyway. Most are not extremists.

I would like to gently point out that your historical tolerance of religious customs was my historical inconveniencing of everyone else!

Why should I not be allowed to fly on a Sunday - and enjoy a nice glass of wine with my inflight meal - just because some complete stranger's aforementioned "imaginary friend" has irrational issues?

As a lifelong atheist, I've grown up noticing this constant, subtle, passive-aggressive infringement on my rights. (And don't get me started on peoples' reactions when I was a vegetarian! )

flyingturtle wrote:

Take-off checklist

Deuteronomy 1:1-12

Ye shall ask for His blessing on the righteous frequency, for on the wrong one ye shall not receive the clearance to line up.

And then G*d spoke: Ye shall set 90% N1 and a flap setting of 1, for if you decideth otherwise, you shall not leave earth with His blessing.

Probeth thy mind and thy conscience, for the righteous addition of ye fuel load and payload, for it is written...



David