DL outlines A350 routes

compensateme · Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:34 am

cessna2 wrote:
By the end of 2018 to early 2019 all TransPac service will shift to 777/359. Delta wants to compete against foreign asian carriers with its Biz suites.

Incorrect; DL has already indicated the 339 will operate select West Coast - Asia flights. Further, there are likely some routes that will stay 763 & 332 well into the future (e.g. DTW-NGO) as DL slows 339/359 deliveries.

panamair · Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:37 am

LAX772LR wrote:

I really wish I could know why they haven't been tripping over themselves to partner with HX, who has intercon codeshare relationships. Or heck, even UO, despite U-FLY.

It could raise awareness of their service in the market significantly, and also provide some southern Chinese feed that CZ can't really help them with, seeing as they don't fly to CAN. But I guess they don't see it that way... yet?

Somewhat related, but I noticed that DL now codeshares with 9W on BOM/DEL-HKG flights that connect with DL's HKG-SEA flight. Unfortunately the flight times only work well for eastbound flights but not the other way round.

LAX772LR · Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:56 pm

panamair wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
I really wish I could know why they haven't been tripping over themselves to partner with HX, who has intercon codeshare relationships. Or heck, even UO, despite U-FLY.

It could raise awareness of their service in the market significantly, and also provide some southern Chinese feed that CZ can't really help them with, seeing as they don't fly to CAN. But I guess they don't see it that way... yet?

Somewhat related, but I noticed that DL now codeshares with 9W on BOM/DEL-HKG flights that connect with DL's HKG-SEA flight. Unfortunately the flight times only work well for eastbound flights but not the other way round.

Interesting!

I went to their site to play around with it a bit, and sure enough, HKG is offered as a cnnx point.... however, nothing I do seems to actually create an available booking (I didn't call). It just comes up with "no flights available"

scbriml · Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:20 pm

FriscoHeavy wrote:
UA's 789 takes a full load of passengers and some cargo on nearly every flight. Rarely (occasionally in the winter), does it need to block a few seats.

So what's your basis for claiming this?

I ask, because...

panam330 wrote:
I work for UA in ops. I work this flight 5 days a week, and that's just not true. On the westbound SFO-SIN, 40-45 seats are routinely blocked in Y.

DL777200LR · Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:20 am

Varsity1 wrote:
I am more interested in the pilot group synergies. The full allotment of 25 A350's would replace all 777's and 747's one for one. The A330/330NEO/350 will be a very efficient lineup from a pilot staffing perspective.

A true 767 replacement is still up in the air I suppose.

The 77Ls are not leaving anytime soon and the 77Es are still a ways away from being retired. There were 16 747s that were replaced using other equipment until the A359s come on line. The A359 was ordered as a 744replacement. The B777 and A350 will have the same pilot pay scale for DL though.

hz747300 · Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:31 am

AA advertised themselves as the fastest way to Latin America when they launched the DFW route. The posters are still visible here and there and in Terminal 2. I don't recall any Delta advertising locally, I agree that this certainly hasn't helped. But UA does not really advertise either though their service has been much more consistent. Even a poster in the MTR or a few trams advertising the only nonstop to Seattle could be useful.

I did meet some Delta people at one of the bars in Wan Chai experiencing the local culture. They were ramp people, flew to HKG on staff travel, and having the night of their lives.

448205 · Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:02 am

DL777200LR wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
I am more interested in the pilot group synergies. The full allotment of 25 A350's would replace all 777's and 747's one for one. The A330/330NEO/350 will be a very efficient lineup from a pilot staffing perspective.

A true 767 replacement is still up in the air I suppose.

The 77Ls are not leaving anytime soon and the 77Es are still a ways away from being retired. There were 16 747s that were replaced using other equipment until the A359s come on line. The A359 was ordered as a 744replacement. The B777 and A350 will have the same pilot pay scale for DL though.

They are currently down to 7 747's and 18 777's before a single A350 is on the line, plus it's full summer schedule. In theory the A350 could replace these aircraft 1/1, retaining the same schedule as today.

I am surprised that they didn't go with the -1000 though.

DL777200LR · Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:10 am

Varsity1 wrote:
DL777200LR wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
I am more interested in the pilot group synergies. The full allotment of 25 A350's would replace all 777's and 747's one for one. The A330/330NEO/350 will be a very efficient lineup from a pilot staffing perspective.

A true 767 replacement is still up in the air I suppose.

The 77Ls are not leaving anytime soon and the 77Es are still a ways away from being retired. There were 16 747s that were replaced using other equipment until the A359s come on line. The A359 was ordered as a 744replacement. The B777 and A350 will have the same pilot pay scale for DL though.

They are currently down to 7 747's and 18 777's before a single A350 is on the line, plus it's full summer schedule. In theory the A350 could replace these aircraft 1/1, retaining the same schedule as today.

I am surprised that they didn't go with the -1000 though.

Added 10 A333 242T while retiring 9 744 with the last one being deliveried a few weeks ago

ITB · Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:13 am

KarelXWB wrote:

The 95 kg per passenger w/baggage number caught my eye. Converting to pounds, that's 209 lbs. This figure may now be on the low end. If you estimate a passenger's average weight at 75 kg (165 lbs) that only allows for 20 kg (44 lbs) baggage. There's a lot of heavy people in the world nowadays, men and women, and particularly among us Americans. If you take into account that most passengers likely will be checking a sizeable bag and then bringing on board a decent sized carry-on, the 95 kg per passenger may be easily breached. It's probably time for the airline manufacturers to boost the per passenger w/baggage number to 100 kg or even 105 kg, particularly on international flights when passengers will be toting considerable luggage.

448205 · Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:37 am

DL777200LR wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
DL777200LR wrote:

The 77Ls are not leaving anytime soon and the 77Es are still a ways away from being retired. There were 16 747s that were replaced using other equipment until the A359s come on line. The A359 was ordered as a 744replacement. The B777 and A350 will have the same pilot pay scale for DL though.

They are currently down to 7 747's and 18 777's before a single A350 is on the line, plus it's full summer schedule. In theory the A350 could replace these aircraft 1/1, retaining the same schedule as today.

I am surprised that they didn't go with the -1000 though.

Added 10 A333 242T while retiring 9 744 with the last one being deliveried a few weeks ago

Are they all delivered? Wiki shows no orders left for the 333.

Do you see delta going for the 330-800 to replace the 763's and 764's? It seems to be the only aircraft that makes sense in the 250 segment right now.

LAX772LR · Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:51 am

Varsity1 wrote:
Do you see delta going for the 330-800 to replace the 763's and 764's? It seems to be the only aircraft that makes sense in the 250 segment right now.

Your last two words are the key.... right now it is, but not for long.

The oldest 764ER is "only" 17, it can easily go another 8yrs or more.

Thus, my asshole avatar summarizes DL's position quite thoroughly in saying:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zy8YIxD0GY0

Adipasquale · Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:00 am

Cointrin330 wrote:
Surprised the A350 isn't being used on LAX-SYD. I thought I had heard DL wanted to put the 350 on the SYD route as a way to increase competitiveness with QF/AA/UA but I suppose the 77L is equally suited for the LAX-SYD run.

The 777s will be getting cabin upgrades to more or less match the hard product on the 350. People have been throwing LAX-SYD around for a while as a route for the 350, but it's literally the perfect route for the 77L. Not saying we won't see the 350 fly it sometime in the future, but DL needs to keep the 777s flying somewhere.

DL777200LR · Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:54 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
DL777200LR wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:

They are currently down to 7 747's and 18 777's before a single A350 is on the line, plus it's full summer schedule. In theory the A350 could replace these aircraft 1/1, retaining the same schedule as today.

I am surprised that they didn't go with the -1000 though.

Added 10 A333 242T while retiring 9 744 with the last one being deliveried a few weeks ago

Are they all delivered? Wiki shows no orders left for the 333.

Do you see delta going for the 330-800 to replace the 763's and 764's? It seems to be the only aircraft that makes sense in the 250 segment right now.

Yes all 10 were already delivered, ship 3331 was delivered a few weeks ago. Ships 3322-3331 are the GE powered 242T A333

tlecam · Sat Aug 05, 2017 2:16 pm

According to this, ATL- ICN flips to a 350 in S18 as well.

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... e-changes/

FromCDGtoSYD · Sat Aug 05, 2017 2:29 pm

tlecam wrote:
According to this, ATL- ICN flips to a 350 in S18 as well.

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... e-changes/

I'm guessing this is where they are getting the frame for ATL - PVG from

rbavfan · Sat Aug 05, 2017 2:45 pm

VCEflyboy wrote:
Does the a350 have the legs to fly JFK east Asia?

yes. Delta spec says 8000 statute miles. Seems conservative vs Airbus specs.

rbavfan · Sat Aug 05, 2017 2:51 pm

ual777newpaint wrote:
As I feared, no more Comfort+ cabin. Huge blow for Delta elites

Seat map shows Delta One (1-2-1), Delta premium select (2-4-2), Preferred seats(3-3-3) & Main Cabin (3-3-3)
Looks like Preferred is a Comfort+ style, but its not noted other than dark Blue /white squares.

https://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US ... -a350.html

rbavfan · Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:00 pm

rbavfan wrote:
ual777newpaint wrote:
As I feared, no more Comfort+ cabin. Huge blow for Delta elites

Seat map shows Delta One 32 seats (1-2-1), Delta premium select 48 seats(2-4-2), Preferred 36 seats(3-3-3) & Main Cabin 190 seats (3-3-3)
Looks like Preferred is a Comfort+ style, but its not noted other than dark Blue /white squares.

https://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US ... -a350.html

NZ321 · Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:02 pm

789 would need a very premium rich cabin and limited bags to do JFK-AKL. Not likely from DL or NZ. The ULR however is another story and NZ is in the market at the mo for a replacement for its 772 and looking at A350 and 77X. If either DL or NZ purchase the ULR could be interesting times.

NZ321 · Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:03 pm

BTW is there a DL seat map? Not on seat guru yet as far as I know.

rbavfan · Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:08 pm

ASQ400 wrote:
VCEflyboy wrote:
Does the a350 have the legs to fly JFK east Asia?

Yeah. It has some of the longest legs in the industry.
It could even do JFK-AKL

the standard A350-900 cannot do JFK-AKL. The standard models range is 8100nm max still air. AKL is 7672nm without any ETOPS/ETDO time/fuel load. Using a base spec JFK-AKL would require sill air range of around 8693nm to do that flight.

rbavfan · Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:14 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
ty97 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Whaa whaa.

Would swap that for a real premium economy ANY day, seeing as it's going to be hard as hell for upgrades/systemwides into J nowadays. Looks like cold cash is going to be the only way in-- fair enough.

And before anyone says it, yeah I know it won't be free "upgrade" from standard Y for elites... but as with all things in life, if ya want something better-- be prepared to PAY for it.

None of this negates ual777newpaint's point that it's a blow to DL elites. That doesn't mean your point is wrong, but is doesn't make ual777newpaint wrong either. This is a reduction in benefit for elites. Certainly an airline's right to do, but nonetheless a reduction.

Not really disagreeing.

IMO the optimal situation would've been to have both Premium and Comfort, but if they're going to make us choose, then it's tough to argue that a separately-attended product is less of a gain than a measly 3-4 more inches in an otherwise standard Y product.... particularly seeing as they can still theoretically get the latter by booking exit.

Delta's own website shows a preferred section at the front of standard coach, but like many airlines that have Premium economy do not consider standard coach seats at a few extra inch of pitch a separate passenger class. So it might be there.

https://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US ... -a350.html

rbavfan · Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:24 pm

ASQ400 wrote:
aviationaware wrote:
ASQ400 wrote:
Yeah. It has some of the longest legs in the industry.
It could even do JFK-AKL

Not with a full passenger load, not even remotely. JFK-AKL is 8,800 nm. In Delta's config, I would say the maximum range is 7,700 nm and that needs subtraction for wind and other factors. It can't even do JFK-HKG with a full load. Also, it can reach no point in Asia from JFK with a full passenger load and significant amounts of cargo.

Those are numbers from an Airbus IR presentation, so they will be on the optimistic side of things. The A359 is nowhere near doing JFK-AKL.

The A359-operated SFO-SIN is 400 miles shy of JFK-AKL, bud. SQ's coming 900ULR routes (LAX,JFK) both prove the possibility of AKL on that plane, although possibly not the normal 900.
As for JFK-HKG, it's less than SIN-SFO (a current route of the 900). Evidently, then, JFK-HKG is chump change for it.

NOTE: JFK-SIN was operated with a A340-500 with only 100 premium seats, not an A359. They plan to return to the route with a similar configured A359ULR when it becomes available in 2019-2020 time range based on recent Airbus posting.

DaveFly · Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:43 pm

rbavfan wrote:
ASQ400 wrote:
aviationaware wrote:

NOTE: JFK-SIN was operated with a A340-500 with only 100 premium seats, not an A359. They plan to return to the route with a similar configured A359ULR when it becomes available in 2019-2020 time range based on recent Airbus posting.

Minor correction: the Singapore route on the 340-500 was operated to/from Newark, not JFK.

rbavfan · Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:43 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
DL777200LR wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
I am more interested in the pilot group synergies. The full allotment of 25 A350's would replace all 777's and 747's one for one. The A330/330NEO/350 will be a very efficient lineup from a pilot staffing perspective.

A true 767 replacement is still up in the air I suppose.

The 77Ls are not leaving anytime soon and the 77Es are still a ways away from being retired. There were 16 747s that were replaced using other equipment until the A359s come on line. The A359 was ordered as a 744replacement. The B777 and A350 will have the same pilot pay scale for DL though.

They are currently down to 7 747's and 18 777's before a single A350 is on the line, plus it's full summer schedule. In theory the A350 could replace these aircraft 1/1, retaining the same schedule as today.

I am surprised that they didn't go with the -1000 though.

Not surprised they did not do the A350-1000 at this point to replace 744's. They have noted that the 744 was to large for Delta's system in multiple comments over several years. stating the 77l & A359 were better suited to the routes.

astuteman · Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:43 pm

FriscoHeavy wrote:
ElroyJetson wrote:
ASQ400 wrote:
The A359-operated SFO-SIN is 400 miles shy of JFK-AKL, bud. SQ's coming 900ULR routes (LAX,JFK) both prove the possibility of AKL on that plane, although possibly not the normal 900.
As for JFK-HKG, it's less than SIN-SFO (a current route of the 900). Evidently, then, JFK-HKG is chump change for it.

I love how Airbus fanboys always say.....but, but, but SQ does SIN to SFO to the A359 can fly any route on planet Earth!!!

Fact check.....the SIN to SFO flight has zero cargo and limited pax and bags. It by no means could fly AKL to JFK even with a limited load. I would also note the 789 flies SIN to LAX but no Boeing fanboys would claim the legs to do AKL to JFK.

Look...I get you like Airbus and the 359. But keep it real.....okay.

UA's 789 takes a full load of passengers and some cargo on nearly every flight. Rarely (occasionally in the winter), does it need to block a few seats.

Most days, it won't even need to block seats on the upcoming LAX-SIN leg. Airbus fans never want to admit how great the 787 is.

Both of these aircraft are excellent, with good range.

If you look at the Range/Payload chart contained in the Boeing 787-9 ACAP and compare it to the A350-900 Range/Payload chart Karel posted above from the latest Airbus ACAP, you will see that the A350-900 (in 275t guise) typically out-ranges the 787-9 by between 400Nm and 450nm.

Range at MZFW (195t) for A350-900 = 5 750 Nm
Range at MZFW (181t) for 787-9 = 5 200nm

Nominal range for A350-900 = 8 100Nm
Nominal range for 787-9 = 7 650Nm

Range with max fuel for A350-900 = 8 700Nm at a ZFW of 166 tonnes
Range with max fuel for 787-9 = 8 300Nm at a ZFW of 152 tonnes

The 280t version of the A350-900 will best the above figures by about 300Nm-350Nm

From my seat it feels like its Boeing fans who are struggling to admit how capable the A350-900 is ...

Rgds

rbavfan · Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:46 pm

ITB wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:

The 95 kg per passenger w/baggage number caught my eye. Converting to pounds, that's 209 lbs. This figure may now be on the low end. If you estimate a passenger's average weight at 75 kg (165 lbs) that only allows for 20 kg (44 lbs) baggage. There's a lot of heavy people in the world nowadays, men and women, and particularly among us Americans. If you take into account that most passengers likely will be checking a sizeable bag and then bringing on board a decent sized carry-on, the 95 kg per passenger may be easily breached. It's probably time for the airline manufacturers to boost the per passenger w/baggage number to 100 kg or even 105 kg, particularly on international flights when passengers will be toting considerable luggage.

Funny how people are surprised at the CS series fuel burn numbers vs stated range. They used 225 lb./pass as their payload weight when creating their ranges.

rbavfan · Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:51 pm

NZ321 wrote:
BTW is there a DL seat map? Not on seat guru yet as far as I know.

https://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US ... -a350.html

Right on Delta Airlines site been there a while. Seatguru usualy gets maps after the plane is in service. They surprised me with Hawaiians A321 layout though.

rbavfan · Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:55 pm

DaveFly wrote:
rbavfan wrote:
ASQ400 wrote:

Minor correction: the Singapore route on the 340-500 was operated to/from Newark, not JFK.

True they are moving it to JFK when it returns. Which would seem odd as Singapore is in United Star Alliance. But they are basing loads on O & D only not connections & JFK seems better choice for bankers & Wall Street demands.

ap305 · Sat Aug 05, 2017 4:07 pm

The acap figures for the a350 are the 268t variant.... As far as Sfo-Sin goes the a350 also experiences seat blocks only in winter and there is cargo on most days as well.

rbavfan · Sat Aug 05, 2017 4:17 pm

astuteman wrote:
FriscoHeavy wrote:
ElroyJetson wrote:

I love how Airbus fanboys always say.....but, but, but SQ does SIN to SFO to the A359 can fly any route on planet Earth!!!

Fact check.....the SIN to SFO flight has zero cargo and limited pax and bags. It by no means could fly AKL to JFK even with a limited load. I would also note the 789 flies SIN to LAX but no Boeing fanboys would claim the legs to do AKL to JFK.

Look...I get you like Airbus and the 359. But keep it real.....okay.

UA's 789 takes a full load of passengers and some cargo on nearly every flight. Rarely (occasionally in the winter), does it need to block a few seats.

Most days, it won't even need to block seats on the upcoming LAX-SIN leg. Airbus fans never want to admit how great the 787 is.

Both of these aircraft are excellent, with good range.

If you look at the Range/Payload chart contained in the Boeing 787-9 ACAP and compare it to the A350-900 Range/Payload chart Karel posted above from the latest Airbus ACAP, you will see that the A350-900 (in 275t guise) typically out-ranges the 787-9 by between 400Nm and 450nm.

Range at MZFW (195t) for A350-900 = 5 750 Nm
Range at MZFW (181t) for 787-9 = 5 200nm

Nominal range for A350-900 = 8 100Nm
Nominal range for 787-9 = 7 650Nm

Range with max fuel for A350-900 = 8 700Nm at a ZFW of 166 tonnes
Range with max fuel for 787-9 = 8 300Nm at a ZFW of 152 tonnes

The 280t version of the A350-900 will best the above figures by about 300Nm-350Nm

From my seat it feels like its Boeing fans who are struggling to admit how capable the A350-900 is ...

Rgds

What you did not include in that is the Max payload they can carry. A359 carries less payload max (used on shorter routes for revenue boost) than the 777 by a a good amount based on posted figures for the 2. A350-900 can carry max of 134445 lb. load while the 777-200L can carry 141000 lb. the A350-1000 can carry a max of 149631 lb. while the 77W can carry 154000 lb.

Do note though recent adjustments allow the A350 an additional 8157 lb (3.7t) more & the A350-1000 6613 lb. (3t) more do to changes for the air frames after taking into account slack in the figures by Airbus. This now turns the tables to allow Airbus more payload than the Boeings.

Be interesting to see what the seating capacity is on the 777 for Delta when they have the same 76"-81" suites & 38" Premium sections & 31-32" coach.

LAX772LR · Sat Aug 05, 2017 4:35 pm

rbavfan wrote:
NOTE: JFK-SIN was operated with a A340-500 with only 100 premium seats, not an A359. They plan to return to the route with a similar configured A359ULR when it becomes available in 2019-2020 time range based on recent Airbus posting.

It was EWR-SIN, not JFK; and no it won't be in similar configuration, as it will have less business seats include a premium economy... similar to when the route first started, before going all-J. Also, the route commences in 2018, unless something's recently changed.

rbavfan wrote:
True they are moving it to JFK when it returns.

Based on what? ....they haven't published a decision on that.

okie73 · Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:02 pm

DL777200LR wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
The B777 and A350 will have the same pilot pay scale for DL though.

The 747 also pays the same as the 777 and 350.

jayunited · Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:05 pm

panam330 wrote:
I work for UA in ops. I work this flight 5 days a week, and that's just not true. On the westbound SFO-SIN, 40-45 seats are routinely blocked in Y. They know this will also be the case for LAX-SIN. I have never once seen flight 1 push with a full load in the back, with NRSA left at the gate for weight restrictions.

I'm not sure which United you work for but you are completely wrong while there are days when the flight has empty seats no flight ever goes out completely full every day. The empty seats has nothing to do with a weight restriction and UA does not need to block seats except for a few weeks in the winter months on the westbound flight. Below I've provided a few post departure flight status displays that directly contradict your claim that the west bound flight routinely blocks seats. Any United employee can find this information on Flying Together if they know where to look.

System Status Display FlightTrax
CARRIER FLIGHT FROM DATE SEARCH

Operational Status IN Flight Status OUT
23:04 OFF
23:26 ON
06:06 IN
06:14
FLIGHT INFO Flight Query Tool
Flight Number: 1 G Flight Date: 03AUG - 2017
Originating Station: SFO Destination: SIN
Scheduled Departure: 22:50 Scheduled Arrival: 06:15
Estimated Departure: 22:50 Estimated Arrival: 06:17
Actual Departure: 23:04 Actual Arrival: 06:14
Departure Delay Minutes: 14 Arrival Delay Minutes: -1
Division Delay Minutes: 14 AP
Late Turn Minutes: 0 Actual Crew Out Departure: 23:04
Minimum Service Time: 95 Crew
Departure Gate: 102 Arrival Gate: F58
AIRCRAFT INFO
Nose Number: 3950 Registration Number: N38950
Equipment: 78Z Subfleet Code: 924
Total Seats: 252 Seat Configuration: 48-0-204
Total Booked/Onboard: 249 Onboard Configuration: 48-0-201

System Status Display FlightTrax
CARRIER FLIGHT FROM DATE SEARCH

Operational Status IN Flight Status OUT
22:56 OFF
23:24 ON
05:55 IN
06:07
FLIGHT INFO Flight Query Tool
Flight Number: 1 G Flight Date: 01AUG - 2017
Originating Station: SFO Destination: SIN
Scheduled Departure: 22:50 Scheduled Arrival: 06:15
Estimated Departure: 22:50 Estimated Arrival: 06:06
Actual Departure: 22:56 Actual Arrival: 06:07
Departure Delay Minutes: 6 Arrival Delay Minutes: -8
Division Delay Minutes: 6 TL
Late Turn Minutes: 0 Actual Crew Out Departure: 22:56
Minimum Service Time: 95 Crew
Departure Gate: 94 Arrival Gate: F33
AIRCRAFT INFO
Nose Number: 3962 Registration Number: N36962
Equipment: 78Z Subfleet Code: 924
Total Seats: 252 Seat Configuration: 48-0-204
Total Booked/Onboard: 237 Onboard Configuration: 48-0-189

System Status Display FlightTrax
CARRIER FLIGHT FROM DATE SEARCH

Operational Status IN Flight Status OUT
22:50 OFF
23:22 ON
06:06 IN
06:17
FLIGHT INFO Flight Query Tool
Flight Number: 1 G Flight Date: 31JUL - 2017
Originating Station: SFO Destination: SIN
Scheduled Departure: 22:50 Scheduled Arrival: 06:15
Estimated Departure: 22:50 Estimated Arrival: 06:17
Actual Departure: 22:50 Actual Arrival: 06:17
Departure Delay Minutes: 0 Arrival Delay Minutes: 2
Division Delay Minutes: 0
Late Turn Minutes: 0 Actual Crew Out Departure: 22:50
Minimum Service Time: 95 Crew
Departure Gate: 100 Arrival Gate: E28
AIRCRAFT INFO
Nose Number: 3956 Registration Number: N45956
Equipment: 78Z Subfleet Code: 924
Total Seats: 252 Seat Configuration: 48-0-204
Total Booked/Onboard: 248 Onboard Configuration: 47-0-201

I can provide data for every flight and what that data will show you is over 90% of the time UA1 has less than 20 open seats and then there is also the cargo which UA carries a lot of between SFO and SIN. I posted all of this to show people both the 789 and the A359 are capable of handling SFO-SIN-SFO in a standard configuration if DL chooses their A359's should be able to handle JFK-Asia with out a weight penalty on most days.

By the way I just looked in SHAREs and tonights flight August 5, 2017 is booked completely full, should all passengers show up there will be 252 customers onboard. I'll be happy to post the post departure flight information here tomorrow. Even in the winter UA does not block 40-45 seats in Y.

jumbojet · Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:21 pm

jayunited wrote:
panam330 wrote:
I work for UA in ops. I work this flight 5 days a week, and that's just not true. On the westbound SFO-SIN, 40-45 seats are routinely blocked in Y. They know this will also be the case for LAX-SIN. I have never once seen flight 1 push with a full load in the back, with NRSA left at the gate for weight restrictions.

I'm not sure which United you work for but you are completely wrong while there are days when the flight has empty seats no flight ever goes out completely full every day. The empty seats has nothing to do with a weight restriction and UA does not need to block seats except for a few weeks in the winter months on the westbound flight. Below I've provided a few post departure flight status displays that directly contradict your claim that the west bound flight routinely blocks seats. Any United employee can find this information on Flying Together if they know where to look.

System Status Display FlightTrax
CARRIER FLIGHT FROM DATE SEARCH

Operational Status IN Flight Status OUT
23:04 OFF
23:26 ON
06:06 IN
06:14
FLIGHT INFO Flight Query Tool
Flight Number: 1 G Flight Date: 03AUG - 2017
Originating Station: SFO Destination: SIN
Scheduled Departure: 22:50 Scheduled Arrival: 06:15
Estimated Departure: 22:50 Estimated Arrival: 06:17
Actual Departure: 23:04 Actual Arrival: 06:14
Departure Delay Minutes: 14 Arrival Delay Minutes: -1
Division Delay Minutes: 14 AP
Late Turn Minutes: 0 Actual Crew Out Departure: 23:04
Minimum Service Time: 95 Crew
Departure Gate: 102 Arrival Gate: F58
AIRCRAFT INFO
Nose Number: 3950 Registration Number: N38950
Equipment: 78Z Subfleet Code: 924
Total Seats: 252 Seat Configuration: 48-0-204
Total Booked/Onboard: 249 Onboard Configuration: 48-0-201

System Status Display FlightTrax
CARRIER FLIGHT FROM DATE SEARCH

Operational Status IN Flight Status OUT
22:56 OFF
23:24 ON
05:55 IN
06:07
FLIGHT INFO Flight Query Tool
Flight Number: 1 G Flight Date: 01AUG - 2017
Originating Station: SFO Destination: SIN
Scheduled Departure: 22:50 Scheduled Arrival: 06:15
Estimated Departure: 22:50 Estimated Arrival: 06:06
Actual Departure: 22:56 Actual Arrival: 06:07
Departure Delay Minutes: 6 Arrival Delay Minutes: -8
Division Delay Minutes: 6 TL
Late Turn Minutes: 0 Actual Crew Out Departure: 22:56
Minimum Service Time: 95 Crew
Departure Gate: 94 Arrival Gate: F33
AIRCRAFT INFO
Nose Number: 3962 Registration Number: N36962
Equipment: 78Z Subfleet Code: 924
Total Seats: 252 Seat Configuration: 48-0-204
Total Booked/Onboard: 237 Onboard Configuration: 48-0-189

System Status Display FlightTrax
CARRIER FLIGHT FROM DATE SEARCH

Operational Status IN Flight Status OUT
22:50 OFF
23:22 ON
06:06 IN
06:17
FLIGHT INFO Flight Query Tool
Flight Number: 1 G Flight Date: 31JUL - 2017
Originating Station: SFO Destination: SIN
Scheduled Departure: 22:50 Scheduled Arrival: 06:15
Estimated Departure: 22:50 Estimated Arrival: 06:17
Actual Departure: 22:50 Actual Arrival: 06:17
Departure Delay Minutes: 0 Arrival Delay Minutes: 2
Division Delay Minutes: 0
Late Turn Minutes: 0 Actual Crew Out Departure: 22:50
Minimum Service Time: 95 Crew
Departure Gate: 100 Arrival Gate: E28
AIRCRAFT INFO
Nose Number: 3956 Registration Number: N45956
Equipment: 78Z Subfleet Code: 924
Total Seats: 252 Seat Configuration: 48-0-204
Total Booked/Onboard: 248 Onboard Configuration: 47-0-201

I can provide data for every flight and what that data will show you is over 90% of the time UA1 has less than 20 open seats and then there is also the cargo which UA carries a lot of between SFO and SIN. I posted all of this to show people both the 789 and the A359 are capable of handling SFO-SIN-SFO in a standard configuration if DL chooses their A359's should be able to handle JFK-Asia with out a weight penalty on most days.

By the way I just looked in SHAREs and tonights flight August 5, 2017 is booked completely full, should all passengers show up there will be 252 customers onboard. I'll be happy to post the post departure flight information here tomorrow. Even in the winter UA does not block 40-45 seats in Y.

How is this information relevant to this thread? Congratulations to United for being able to fill up a plane full of people to SIN but not really sure how that is relevant in this topic.

CriticalPoint · Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:39 pm

panam330 wrote:
FriscoHeavy wrote:
UA's 789 takes a full load of passengers and some cargo on nearly every flight. Rarely (occasionally in the winter), does it need to block a few seats.

Most days, it won't even need to block seats on the upcoming LAX-SIN leg. Airbus fans never want to admit how great the 787 is.

I work for UA in ops. I work this flight 5 days a week, and that's just not true. On the westbound SFO-SIN, 40-45 seats are routinely blocked in Y. They know this will also be the case for LAX-SIN. I have never once seen flight 1 push with a full load in the back, with NRSA left at the gate for weight restrictions.

Interesting......every time I fly SIN. It's either full or less than 10 seats from full. .......I suspect you don't work this flight very often.

CriticalPoint · Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:42 pm

jumbojet wrote:
jayunited wrote:
panam330 wrote:
I work for UA in ops. I work this flight 5 days a week, and that's just not true. On the westbound SFO-SIN, 40-45 seats are routinely blocked in Y. They know this will also be the case for LAX-SIN. I have never once seen flight 1 push with a full load in the back, with NRSA left at the gate for weight restrictions.

I'm not sure which United you work for but you are completely wrong while there are days when the flight has empty seats no flight ever goes out completely full every day. The empty seats has nothing to do with a weight restriction and UA does not need to block seats except for a few weeks in the winter months on the westbound flight. Below I've provided a few post departure flight status displays that directly contradict your claim that the west bound flight routinely blocks seats. Any United employee can find this information on Flying Together if they know where to look.

System Status Display FlightTrax
CARRIER FLIGHT FROM DATE SEARCH

Operational Status IN Flight Status OUT
23:04 OFF
23:26 ON
06:06 IN
06:14
FLIGHT INFO Flight Query Tool
Flight Number: 1 G Flight Date: 03AUG - 2017
Originating Station: SFO Destination: SIN
Scheduled Departure: 22:50 Scheduled Arrival: 06:15
Estimated Departure: 22:50 Estimated Arrival: 06:17
Actual Departure: 23:04 Actual Arrival: 06:14
Departure Delay Minutes: 14 Arrival Delay Minutes: -1
Division Delay Minutes: 14 AP
Late Turn Minutes: 0 Actual Crew Out Departure: 23:04
Minimum Service Time: 95 Crew
Departure Gate: 102 Arrival Gate: F58
AIRCRAFT INFO
Nose Number: 3950 Registration Number: N38950
Equipment: 78Z Subfleet Code: 924
Total Seats: 252 Seat Configuration: 48-0-204
Total Booked/Onboard: 249 Onboard Configuration: 48-0-201

System Status Display FlightTrax
CARRIER FLIGHT FROM DATE SEARCH

Operational Status IN Flight Status OUT
22:56 OFF
23:24 ON
05:55 IN
06:07
FLIGHT INFO Flight Query Tool
Flight Number: 1 G Flight Date: 01AUG - 2017
Originating Station: SFO Destination: SIN
Scheduled Departure: 22:50 Scheduled Arrival: 06:15
Estimated Departure: 22:50 Estimated Arrival: 06:06
Actual Departure: 22:56 Actual Arrival: 06:07
Departure Delay Minutes: 6 Arrival Delay Minutes: -8
Division Delay Minutes: 6 TL
Late Turn Minutes: 0 Actual Crew Out Departure: 22:56
Minimum Service Time: 95 Crew
Departure Gate: 94 Arrival Gate: F33
AIRCRAFT INFO
Nose Number: 3962 Registration Number: N36962
Equipment: 78Z Subfleet Code: 924
Total Seats: 252 Seat Configuration: 48-0-204
Total Booked/Onboard: 237 Onboard Configuration: 48-0-189

System Status Display FlightTrax
CARRIER FLIGHT FROM DATE SEARCH

Operational Status IN Flight Status OUT
22:50 OFF
23:22 ON
06:06 IN
06:17
FLIGHT INFO Flight Query Tool
Flight Number: 1 G Flight Date: 31JUL - 2017
Originating Station: SFO Destination: SIN
Scheduled Departure: 22:50 Scheduled Arrival: 06:15
Estimated Departure: 22:50 Estimated Arrival: 06:17
Actual Departure: 22:50 Actual Arrival: 06:17
Departure Delay Minutes: 0 Arrival Delay Minutes: 2
Division Delay Minutes: 0
Late Turn Minutes: 0 Actual Crew Out Departure: 22:50
Minimum Service Time: 95 Crew
Departure Gate: 100 Arrival Gate: E28
AIRCRAFT INFO
Nose Number: 3956 Registration Number: N45956
Equipment: 78Z Subfleet Code: 924
Total Seats: 252 Seat Configuration: 48-0-204
Total Booked/Onboard: 248 Onboard Configuration: 47-0-201

I can provide data for every flight and what that data will show you is over 90% of the time UA1 has less than 20 open seats and then there is also the cargo which UA carries a lot of between SFO and SIN. I posted all of this to show people both the 789 and the A359 are capable of handling SFO-SIN-SFO in a standard configuration if DL chooses their A359's should be able to handle JFK-Asia with out a weight penalty on most days.

By the way I just looked in SHAREs and tonights flight August 5, 2017 is booked completely full, should all passengers show up there will be 252 customers onboard. I'll be happy to post the post departure flight information here tomorrow. Even in the winter UA does not block 40-45 seats in Y.

How is this information relevant to this thread? Congratulations to United for being able to fill up a plane full of people to SIN but not really sure how that is relevant in this topic.

Well Jumbo if you read the entire thread you would see half of it is about which airplane can fly further the 787 or the A350. And 1 supposed United employee posted some bogus "facts" about SFO-SIN loads and weight restrictions.

It may be off topic but the MODS have let it go this way, and the bogus "facts" were refuted by Jay.

willenglish · Sat Aug 05, 2017 10:57 pm

What about crew training flights? I could see them running DTW-ATL/MSP for the first month in the XWB to get crews used to it. Thats what AC did when they got their first 788s I remember they flew YYZ-YHZ/YUL for crew flights.

jayunited · Sun Aug 06, 2017 12:01 am

jumbojet wrote:

How is this information relevant to this thread? Congratulations to United for being able to fill up a plane full of people to SIN but not really sure how that is relevant in this topic.

Part of my post isn't revenant I just felt compelled to to correct incorrect information about UA flight 1 that a person claimed to work 5 days a week, while at the same time answering other peoples concerns if the DL A359's could do JFK-Asia without a weight penalty on most day.

The next time people want to blatantly post false information please know that there are people on this site who actually do work for airlines and can fact check what is said, I wasn't trying to take the thread off topic if that is what happened I apologize.

AntonioMartin · Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:07 am

Impressive range for an aircraft of its size. Take it from a fan who grew in the 80s, back then we barely saw a 747 fly JFK-Tokyo...in a few decades, routes like these will be done on 737's!

panam330 · Sun Aug 06, 2017 1:28 pm

jayunited wrote:
The next time people want to blatantly post false information please know that there are people on this site who actually do work for airlines and can fact check what is said, I wasn't trying to take the thread off topic if that is what happened I apologize.

I no longer work in the NOC; I'm posting observations from when I would look at SHARES, which more often than not showed blocked seats. And for the record, I'm not stupid enough to post wrongful information that I'm well aware people, including the other 80,000 employees at UA, can check. But hey, whatever helps you sleep at night.

jayunited · Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:58 pm

panam330 wrote:
I no longer work in the NOC; I'm posting observations from when I would look at SHARES, which more often than not showed blocked seats. And for the record, I'm not stupid enough to post wrongful information that I'm well aware people, including the other 80,000 employees at UA, can check. But hey, whatever helps you sleep at night.

I can't believe you are still trying to keep up this charade. :lol:

KDTWflyer · Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:13 pm

rbavfan wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
ty97 wrote:

None of this negates ual777newpaint's point that it's a blow to DL elites. That doesn't mean your point is wrong, but is doesn't make ual777newpaint wrong either. This is a reduction in benefit for elites. Certainly an airline's right to do, but nonetheless a reduction.

Not really disagreeing.

IMO the optimal situation would've been to have both Premium and Comfort, but if they're going to make us choose, then it's tough to argue that a separately-attended product is less of a gain than a measly 3-4 more inches in an otherwise standard Y product.... particularly seeing as they can still theoretically get the latter by booking exit.

Delta's own website shows a preferred section at the front of standard coach, but like many airlines that have Premium economy do not consider standard coach seats at a few extra inch of pitch a separate passenger class. So it might be there.

https://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US ... -a350.html

I think that section of forward Y where it shows 'preferred' is preferential with respect to booking only, I think the seats are exactly the same as the rest of Y.

bfitzflyer · Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:35 pm

I would expect these would go on higher revenue flights long term than primarily focused out of DTW which is nothing like ATL or JFK for attracting business fliers.

EddieDude · Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:01 pm

bfitzflyer wrote:
I would expect these would go on higher revenue flights long term than primarily focused out of DTW which is nothing like ATL or JFK for attracting business fliers.

DL has been very clear that they will be primarily used for US-Asia routes. DL does not have any route to Asia from JFK, so don't expect to see them at JFK. ATL on the other hand has a number of 77E/77L services, so I would expect ATL-ICN, ATL-NRT and the upcoming ATL-PVG to be served with 777s at least initially.

Turnhouse1 · Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:10 pm

bfitzflyer wrote:
I would expect these would go on higher revenue flights long term than primarily focused out of DTW which is nothing like ATL or JFK for attracting business fliers.

They're configured with a relatively low number of Delta One seats, fewer than 764, 772, 332 or 333. Significantly fewer than the 747. The introduction of differentiated premium economy makes up for this slightly, but possibly also reflects what they can sell for cash on the routes they will operate.

atl100million · Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:12 pm

ATL-ICN will operate with the A350 next summer; it will rotate with DTW-ICN at ICN and operate as an overnight flight from ATL-ICN, one of the few overnight westbound flights from the US to Asia on a US carrier.

Given an unlimited number of A350s, DL would probably operate most of its Asia route system on them but DL still has 18 777s, 10 of which are fairly young LRs which have much more range and lift than the A350. Given low fuel prices, even the 777ERs will likely be in service for another 7-10 years which will recuperate the cost of retrofitting the 777s with the same Delta One and Premium Select cabins as the A350s have. There is only a 10 seat difference between the A350 (306 seats) and 777 in DL's comparable configurations.

Also, the ATL-ICN route will likely push 15hrs and 30 minutes in the winter so DL clearly feels it can operate at full loads on a flight that long - unless DL changes the aircraft before winter of 2018-19.

ooslc · Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:05 am

Here's a recap of what A350 routes have been announced:

ATL ICN 24-Mar-18
ICN ATL 25-Mar-18

LAS ICN 8-Jan-18 ONLY
LAS ICN 13-Jan-18 ONLY
ICN LAS 8-Jan-18 ONLY
ICN LAS 13-Jan-18 ONLY

DTW NRT 30-Oct-17
NRT DTW 31-Oct-17

DTW ICN 18-Nov-17 DAILY STARTING 16-DEC
ICN DTW 20-Nov-17

DTW PEK 17-Jan-18 DAILY STARTING 23-FEB
PEK DTW 18-Jan-18

Looks like the ICN-DTW-ICN on the 8th and 13th of Jan are 777s as the a350 does the LAS flights and the ATL flight won't operate for 2 days so it can do the ICN-DTW-ICN flights.

xdlx · Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:40 pm

ASQ400 wrote:
VCEflyboy wrote:
Does the a350 have the legs to fly JFK east Asia?

Yeah. It has some of the longest legs in the industry.
It could even do JFK-AKL

JFK-AKL .... Really! with a load of cotton I assume. And CERTAINLY not AKL-JFK, 1/2 routes do not count for city-pairs.

michman · Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:31 pm

KDTWflyer wrote:
rbavfan wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Not really disagreeing.

IMO the optimal situation would've been to have both Premium and Comfort, but if they're going to make us choose, then it's tough to argue that a separately-attended product is less of a gain than a measly 3-4 more inches in an otherwise standard Y product.... particularly seeing as they can still theoretically get the latter by booking exit.

Delta's own website shows a preferred section at the front of standard coach, but like many airlines that have Premium economy do not consider standard coach seats at a few extra inch of pitch a separate passenger class. So it might be there.

https://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US ... -a350.html

I think that section of forward Y where it shows 'preferred' is preferential with respect to booking only, I think the seats are exactly the same as the rest of Y.

Correct, the "Preferred" seats which are in rows 30 - 33 and consist of aisle and windows seats (but not middle) are the same as the rest of coach. There are no Comfort+ seats on the DL A350's, only the "Premium Select" section. I won't miss the Comfort+ section as the additional recline and pitch is barely noticeable and they offer no extra width. I've often given up Comfort+ seats when I am on a flight that is lightly loaded and am to find aisle seats in the back with empty middles (vs. being crammed in a full Comfort+ section).

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