During the Citi Industrials conference yesterday, United CFO Andrew Levy detailed United's plans to densify the cabins of most of its fleet, including virtually all of its narrowbodies. The rationale was obvious. Echoing Scott Kirby's past comments about the margin benefits of cabin densification (incremental, additional revenue at very low incremental, additional cost), Levy said, "for many of our customers, despite what they say, they care mostly about pricing and schedules."

Specifically, United's overall plan to increase seating includes, among others:

* Standardizing A319s at 128 seats (same as AA)
* Standardizing 73Gs, 738s and 739s at 126, 166 and 179 seats, respectively
* Standardizing 753s at 231 seats (about the same as Delta)
* Standardizing 763s at 214 seats
* Standardizing 19 domestic 777s at 364 seats

The full presentation is available here.

Most of those are already at those numbers, especially the A319's.

jetmatt777 wrote:

Most of those are already at those numbers, especially the A319's.

Indeed. I think this was more of a roll-up summary for Wall Street and an update on standardizing the stragglers among the fleet that haven't yet been brought up to the same configuration as the rest of that respective fleet type.

Yep, this is more of a recap than actual news.

All A319s are already in the 8/42/78 (128) configuration.

73Gs have several aircraft in the new config with a few in mod, the remainder already scheduled. Most still need the new Signature seats though.

738s have pretty much all except a small handful with the new Signature Y seats, so it's just a matter of trimming E+ for E- (going from 16F/54E+/96Y to 16/48E+/102Y). Those mods will be quick.

739s also are almost entirely fitted with the Signature seats, a number of which are already in the new config. Again, it's a matter of trimming E+ for E- (going from 20F/42E+/117Y to 20F/39E+/120Y). In any case, all but a handful left to mod are in the new 169 config regardless of E+/E- count.

753 all need to be modded with new seats and config, but I believe this has already been announced. The mod will add about 18 seats.

777 are either in the new config or in mod.

misleading thread title... most of these mods have been in progress for sometime.

These points on upcoming items were more interesting:
Network optimization in both the domestic and international networks
Maturation of Basic Economy and decision on Premium Economy
Update on fleet strategy

commavia wrote:

jetmatt777 wrote:

Most of those are already at those numbers, especially the A319's.

Indeed. I think this was more of a roll-up summary for Wall Street and an update on standardizing the stragglers among the fleet that haven't yet been brought up to the same configuration as the rest of that respective fleet type.

Yup...and obviously this is not something that is unique to UA as AA, DL, B6 and AS are all doing a similar reconfiguration on their fleets.

UA has been retrofitting slimline for a few years and they are really at the middle of that process not the beginning. This process was really about adding capacity to the fleet while at the same time making the seat product look and for the most part feel the same after the merger. The domestic fleet is just about done but it will be interesting to see what UA comes up with for the international fleet as that program is just beginning.

Aircraft with slimlines....
A319 128 seats 62/62
A320 150 seats 97/97
B73G 126 seats 12/40
B738 166 seats 119/137
B739 179 seats 12/12
B73E 179 seats 133/136
B753 231 seats 0/21
B772 364 seats 19/19 (last 3 ships are out of service for retrofitting)

B752 142 seats 15/15
B75B 169 seats 0/41
B763 214 seats 21/35
B764 242 seats 16/16
B788 219 seats 12/12
B789 252 seats 20/20
B77E ??? seats 0/55
B77W 366 seats 8/8
B744 (obviously nothing is going to happen to these frames)

Economy pitches of narrow bodies are mostly 30" now, or soon:
A319 A321 B73G B738: 30"
B739: 30-31"
B752, B753: 31" (753 seat size may change after adding seats)

Wide bodies are still at 31" at least:
B763 B764 B772 B77W: 31"
B788 B789: 32"

commavia wrote:

Echoing Scott Kirby's past comments about the margin benefits of cabin densification (incremental, additional revenue at very low incremental, additional cost), Levy said, "for many of our customers, despite what they say, they care mostly about pricing and schedules."

here.

"He did not go onto to say the obvious, that no prices will drop as a result of this"

United1 wrote:

commavia wrote:

jetmatt777 wrote:

Most of those are already at those numbers, especially the A319's.

Indeed. I think this was more of a roll-up summary for Wall Street and an update on standardizing the stragglers among the fleet that haven't yet been brought up to the same configuration as the rest of that respective fleet type.

Yup...and obviously this is not something that is unique to UA as AA, DL, B6 and AS are all doing a similar reconfiguration on their fleets.

UA has been retrofitting slimline for a few years and they are really at the middle of that process not the beginning. This process was really about adding capacity to the fleet while at the same time making the seat product look and for the most part feel the same after the merger. The domestic fleet is just about done but it will be interesting to see what UA comes up with for the international fleet as that program is just beginning.

Aircraft with slimlines....
A319 128 seats 62/62
A320 150 seats 97/97
B73G 126 seats 12/40
B738 166 seats 119/137
B739 179 seats 12/12
B73E 179 seats 133/136
B753 231 seats 0/21
B772 364 seats 19/19 (last 3 ships are out of service for retrofitting)

B752 142 seats 15/15
B75B 169 seats 0/41
B763 214 seats 21/35
B764 242 seats 16/16
B788 219 seats 12/12
B789 252 seats 20/20
B77E ??? seats 0/55
B77W 366 seats 8/8
B744 (obviously nothing is going to happen to these frames)

The international fleet won't be getting slimlined. As for the international 772s those will probably have around 285ish seats after mod.

Looks like Levy continues to bring his old Allegiant philosophy to United!

UALFAson wrote:

commavia wrote:

* Standardizing A319s at 128 seats (same as AA)

Although UA will offer more E+ on the route. Seatguru shows AA's 319s as 8F / 24E+ / 96E to UA's 8F / 42E+ / 78E. The much-larger proportion of E+ plus with UA compared to AA or DL is probably the biggest thing I miss about flying them.

If UA has more E+ seats than AA or DL (with same F count and total count) that means UA's pitch in E- is even worse.

I don't really buy the 'slimline is same comfort at tighter pitch' argument. Slimlines' thinness typically demands firmness. Firmness with scultped support is great. Firm like a board is not.

Above there was a good start on seat counts by cabin by type. Add in AA, DL and AS and we see attempts at friendly skies do not mean roomy skies in coach.

Sean-SAN- wrote:

Looks like Levy continues to bring his old Allegiant philosophy to United!

Even though every 'densification' mod was planned and underway before Levy arrived...

ty97 wrote:

commavia wrote:

Echoing Scott Kirby's past comments about the margin benefits of cabin densification (incremental, additional revenue at very low incremental, additional cost), Levy said, "for many of our customers, despite what they say, they care mostly about pricing and schedules."m

here.

"He did not go onto to say the obvious, that no prices will drop as a result of this"

Airfares are amazingly cheap almost as cheap exactly as 20 years ago. The amount of capital and airline house to put out to make the amount of profit that they do is not out of whack and in fact it's low.

CONTACREW wrote:

United1 wrote:

commavia wrote:

Indeed. I think this was more of a roll-up summary for Wall Street and an update on standardizing the stragglers among the fleet that haven't yet been brought up to the same configuration as the rest of that respective fleet type.

Yup...and obviously this is not something that is unique to UA as AA, DL, B6 and AS are all doing a similar reconfiguration on their fleets.

UA has been retrofitting slimline for a few years and they are really at the middle of that process not the beginning. This process was really about adding capacity to the fleet while at the same time making the seat product look and for the most part feel the same after the merger. The domestic fleet is just about done but it will be interesting to see what UA comes up with for the international fleet as that program is just beginning.

Aircraft with slimlines....
A319 128 seats 62/62
A320 150 seats 97/97
B73G 126 seats 12/40
B738 166 seats 119/137
B739 179 seats 12/12
B73E 179 seats 133/136
B753 231 seats 0/21
B772 364 seats 19/19 (last 3 ships are out of service for retrofitting)

B752 142 seats 15/15
B75B 169 seats 0/41
B763 214 seats 21/35
B764 242 seats 16/16
B788 219 seats 12/12
B789 252 seats 20/20
B77E ??? seats 0/55
B77W 366 seats 8/8
B744 (obviously nothing is going to happen to these frames)

The international fleet won't be getting slimlined. As for the international 772s those will probably have around 285ish seats after mod.

The B/E Pinnacle seats UA uses on the 77W, 767 and 787 fleet are slimlines AFAIK or are they considered the new normal?

UA is using B/E Aspire seats on the 772 retrofits and on the 350....I'm rather interested to see what they do to the 752 fleet.

United1 wrote:

CONTACREW wrote:

United1 wrote:

Yup...and obviously this is not something that is unique to UA as AA, DL, B6 and AS are all doing a similar reconfiguration on their fleets.

UA has been retrofitting slimline for a few years and they are really at the middle of that process not the beginning. This process was really about adding capacity to the fleet while at the same time making the seat product look and for the most part feel the same after the merger. The domestic fleet is just about done but it will be interesting to see what UA comes up with for the international fleet as that program is just beginning.

Aircraft with slimlines....
A319 128 seats 62/62
A320 150 seats 97/97
B73G 126 seats 12/40
B738 166 seats 119/137
B739 179 seats 12/12
B73E 179 seats 133/136
B753 231 seats 0/21
B772 364 seats 19/19 (last 3 ships are out of service for retrofitting)

B752 142 seats 15/15
B75B 169 seats 0/41
B763 214 seats 21/35
B764 242 seats 16/16
B788 219 seats 12/12
B789 252 seats 20/20
B77E ??? seats 0/55
B77W 366 seats 8/8
B744 (obviously nothing is going to happen to these frames)

The international fleet won't be getting slimlined. As for the international 772s those will probably have around 285ish seats after mod.

The B/E Pinnacle seats UA uses on the 77W, 767 and 787 fleet are slimlines AFAIK or are they considered the new normal?

UA is using B/E Aspire seats on the 772 retrofits and on the 350....I'm rather interested to see what they do to the 752 fleet.

Those aren't slimlines and the international 752 fleet will remain at 16/153 all they are getting is new seat covers.

CONTACREW wrote:

United1 wrote:

CONTACREW wrote:

The international fleet won't be getting slimlined. As for the international 772s those will probably have around 285ish seats after mod.

The B/E Pinnacle seats UA uses on the 77W, 767 and 787 fleet are slimlines AFAIK or are they considered the new normal?

UA is using B/E Aspire seats on the 772 retrofits and on the 350....I'm rather interested to see what they do to the 752 fleet.

Those aren't slimlines and the international 752 fleet will remain at 16/153 all they are getting is new seat covers.

That's a bummer as the exCO 752s could certainly use a refresh.

United1 wrote:

CONTACREW wrote:

United1 wrote:

The B/E Pinnacle seats UA uses on the 77W, 767 and 787 fleet are slimlines AFAIK or are they considered the new normal?

UA is using B/E Aspire seats on the 772 retrofits and on the 350....I'm rather interested to see what they do to the 752 fleet.

Those aren't slimlines and the international 752 fleet will remain at 16/153 all they are getting is new seat covers.

That's a bummer as the exCO 752s could certainly use a refresh.

Likely will get the new branding (what you see in the interiors of the 77W) in the future.

He mentions Premium Economy re-evaluation on the last slide. Any take-aways from that?

Johnclipper, the last slide says decision on premium economy. I wonder what that means. I like those seats.