2017 Paris Air Show - Boeing News and Orders

Boeing778X · Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:39 pm

Hello all! The 2017 Paris Air Show is upon us! It's shaping up to be a very interesting event this time around, so let's get started!

This thread is for Boeing news and orders. Boeing will no doubt be making some news at Paris. It is widely anticipated that the 737 MAX 10 will be launched at the show with some big ticket launch customers. Information on the Middle of Market "797" is also expected to be elaborated as the likelihood of a new airliner grows at Boeing.

According to Boeing, a couple 787s and a 777-300ER will be brought for flying demonstrations and static display. The Boeing 737 MAX 9 and 787-10 will also make their public debut as well.

A P-8A, V-22, AH-64 Apache and CH-47 Chinook will also be among the static display exhibits as well.

This show will be vital for Boeing! Let's get started!

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/paris-air-show

pabloeing · Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:45 pm

Waiting B777X orders ¡¡¡¡

Boeing778X · Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:48 pm

pabloeing wrote:
Waiting B777X orders ¡¡¡¡

Singapore could confirm their order for 20x 777-9s and 19x 787-10s at the show.

ikolkyo · Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:51 pm

Love that 787-10 photo you have there, absolutely beautiful.

pabloeing · Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:52 pm

Boeing778X wrote:
pabloeing wrote:
Waiting B777X orders ¡¡¡¡

Singapore could confirm their order for 20x 777-9s and 19x 787-10s at the show.

And a big rumour about Air New Zealand B777-9X order for 10 planes.

ikolkyo · Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:57 pm

pabloeing wrote:
Boeing778X wrote:
pabloeing wrote:
Waiting B777X orders ¡¡¡¡

Singapore could confirm their order for 20x 777-9s and 19x 787-10s at the show.

And a big rumour about Air New Zealand B777-9X order for 10 planes.

Haven't heard this one before, would love to see this come to fruition!.

bunumuring · Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:25 pm

i havent heard the Air New Zealand rumour either.... But the last I DID hear was that the A350 was level-pegging with the 777X to replace the classic 777s... With a decision a while off yet. Still, Air New Zealand may pull a rabbit out of its hat in this buyer's market!
I hope that the rumour is true! But 10 frames seem an awful lot in one hit for them. Maybe something like 6 firm and 4 options? Maybe a few extra Dreamliners in the mix as well?
Cheers,
Bunumuring

sunrisevalley · Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:47 am

pabloeing wrote:
[ And a big rumour about Air New Zealand B777-9X order for 10 planes.

Thinking back to the very recent Investor day presentation in the Q and A part the CFO said that they would be doing a RFI for wide bodies later in the FY.In a more recent speech CEO Luxon spoke of looking for a replacement for the 77E. They have 3 77W coming off "short term lease" in the FY2019-2021 time frame. Of course they could roll the leases over but they may elect not to. Their intent is to fly deeper in to North America and ORD is frequently mentioned . This is pretty much at the limit of NZ's 789/77W capability. Thus a 778/779 order seems possible.

77west · Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:13 am

I believe both the 77X family and the A350 family could work for NZ, but see the 77X having an edge in commonality with existing fleet.

seahawk · Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:26 am

And better performance.

ZK-NBT · Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:33 am

Interesting re NZ, I didn't think they were quite ready to order yet and the 779 is almost 744 size but Efficient also expensive, I'll believe when they order personally. I hope they do however just not sold yet.

anshabhi · Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:45 am

CAPA reported Vistara will be ordering 50 B777X here.

pabloeing · Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:53 am

anshabhi wrote:
CAPA reported Vistara will be ordering 50 B777X here.

http://aviationindeed.com/vistara-may-p ... june-capa/

http://www.livemint.com/Companies/Cb4bW ... -CAPA.html

seahawk · Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:56 am

Would be great news for the 777-9.

Momo1435 · Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:42 am

Isn't it a bit early to start these threads? Now this will turn into a week of (mainly rehashed) speculation in these "news and orders" threads. The last couple years these were opened a day before the start at the earliest, just to capture the actual news from the shows.

sunrisevalley · Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:02 pm

77west wrote:
I believe both the 77X family and the A350 family could work for NZ, but see the 77X having an edge in commonality with existing fleet.

The A350-1000 does not have the payload capability of the 778/779 at ESAD 8500nm which is about what NZ would need for deep entry into the USA. I expect that the decision to replace the 77E's will be between the 789 and A359.

Slash787 · Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:52 pm

anshabhi wrote:
CAPA reported Vistara will be ordering 50 B777X here.

That would be really cool, I would love to see them flying International, honestly I thought they would go with the Airbus A330NEO or A350 as they have A320/NEO in their current fleet.

Dutchy · Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:23 pm

Slash787 wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
CAPA reported Vistara will be ordering 50 B777X here.

That would be really cool, I would love to see them flying International, honestly I thought they would go with the Airbus A330NEO or A350 as they have A320/NEO in their current fleet.

50 B779 is quite a capacity jump for an airline flying with 14 A320/A320NEO.

jbs2886 · Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:12 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Slash787 wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
CAPA reported Vistara will be ordering 50 B777X here.

That would be really cool, I would love to see them flying International, honestly I thought they would go with the Airbus A330NEO or A350 as they have A320/NEO in their current fleet.

50 B779 is quite a capacity jump for an airline flying with 14 A320/A320NEO.

Which seems to be the case with Indian airlines. Roughly speaking, Indigo operates 135 with 459(!) on order; GoAir operates 23 with 140 on order; SpiceJet operates 53 with 207 on order (plus apparently 100 narrowbodies and widebodies to come).

anshabhi · Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:17 am

jbs2886 wrote:
Which seems to be the case with Indian airlines. Roughly speaking, Indigo operates 135 with 459(!) on order; GoAir operates 23 with 140 on order; SpiceJet operates 53 with 207 on order (plus apparently 100 narrowbodies and widebodies to come).

And believe me, all of these aircraft are being actively delivered and filled as well. The demand is indeed very strong in India.

chiki · Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:55 am

anshabhi wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
Which seems to be the case with Indian airlines. Roughly speaking, Indigo operates 135 with 459(!) on order; GoAir operates 23 with 140 on order; SpiceJet operates 53 with 207 on order (plus apparently 100 narrowbodies and widebodies to come).

And believe me, all of these aircraft are being actively delivered and filled as well. The demand is indeed very strong in India.

Still the jump is too big its going to end badly for one of these airlines. is there market research to prove the need for this jump

anshabhi · Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:18 pm

chiki wrote:
Still the jump is too big its going to end badly for one of these airlines. is there market research to prove the need for this jump

Boeing forecasts a demand for 1,850 new airplanes in India, valued at $265 billion, over the next 20 years, according to the company’s annual Current Market Outlook (CMO) for India.
“India continues to have a strong commercial aerospace market and the highest domestic traffic growth in the world,” said Dinesh Keskar, senior vice president, Asia Pacific and India Sales, Boeing Commercial Airplanes. “With the new aviation policies in place, we see even greater opportunities and remain confident in the market and the airlines in India.”
http://www.boeing.co.in/news-and-media- ... india.page?

• The number of Domestic Indian passengers is expected to grow almost six times in the next 20 years, reaching the level as Domestic USA is today.

http://www.airbus.com/company/market/gl ... %5D=233685

Polot · Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:25 pm

There is a big jump between huge domestic expansion (which competition is just among Indian carriers and their hubs) and huge intercontinental expansion (where they are now competing again international airlines and their hubs in addition to other Indian carriers). India will have to start liberalizing their bilaterals with other countries and take a less protectionist stance for their own airlines (which granted, they are already doing).

anshabhi · Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:41 pm

Polot wrote:
There is a big jump between huge domestic expansion (which competition is just among Indian carriers and their hubs) and huge intercontinental expansion (where they are now competing again international airlines and their hubs in addition to other Indian carriers). India will have to start liberalizing their bilaterals with other countries and take a less protectionist stance for their own airlines (which granted, they are already doing).

Maybe but this reminds me of IndiGo's 2005 order for 100 A320, which was literally the founding base for what India's domestic market is today and is going to be in the future.
Similarly, there's a good potential for a well managed long haul airline. Don't forget entire ME market is built on the back of India's strength.

jbs2886 · Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:47 pm

Polot wrote:
There is a big jump between huge domestic expansion (which competition is just among Indian carriers and their hubs) and huge intercontinental expansion (where they are now competing again international airlines and their hubs in addition to other Indian carriers). India will have to start liberalizing their bilaterals with other countries and take a less protectionist stance for their own airlines (which granted, they are already doing).

Very true, but, it is the next step in the expansion of the Indian airlines and will be a very different market. (I would say regional is the next step, but as I understand it, many airports just aren't capable of commercial flights right now.)

anshabhi · Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:49 pm

jbs2886 wrote:

Very true, but, it is the next step in the expansion of the Indian airlines and will be a very different market. (I would say regional is the next step, but as I understand it, many airports just aren't capable of commercial flights right now.)

For regional flights, infrastructure is there. There are about 40 ghost airports in India, which are being connected under Regional connectivity scheme.

(Please refer to this thread: viewtopic.php?t=1346027)

Antarius · Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:49 pm

pabloeing wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
CAPA reported Vistara will be ordering 50 B777X here.

http://aviationindeed.com/vistara-may-p ... june-capa/

http://www.livemint.com/Companies/Cb4bW ... -CAPA.html

Aviationindeed article appears to have been written by a 6 year old. Good lord.

neutrino · Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:55 pm

Antarius wrote:
pabloeing wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
CAPA reported Vistara will be ordering 50 B777X here.

http://aviationindeed.com/vistara-may-p ... june-capa/

http://www.livemint.com/Companies/Cb4bW ... -CAPA.html

Aviationindeed article appears to have been written by a 6 year old. Good lord.

Indeed. I had a hard time trying to decipher the "Inglish". Its in the same league as "Chinglish", but probably win by a nose in a competition to drive readers insane.

Slash787 · Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:06 pm

Spice Jet seems interested in the B787, maybe we can see some orders?

chiki · Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:10 pm

Slash787 wrote:
Spice Jet seems interested in the B787, maybe we can see some orders?

and 737 max 10
https://www.google.com/url?rct=j&sa=t&u ... fXINZQERlw

Stitch · Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:40 pm

So with CALC ordering 50 737 MAX and with Boeing releasing the details of said order at the Paris Air Show (so relevant to this thread), perhaps they will be one of the 737-10 launch customers. :scratchchin:

rotating14 · Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:45 pm

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... n-airlines

Spicejet and Lion Mentari Airlines are in discussions for acquiring the MAX 10.

RL777 · Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:40 pm

I'd love to see Vistara help boost the 777X program, but I'm very skeptical they can make it work. India may be experiencing a surge in demand and steady growth but going from 14 narrow bodies to 50 VLA is ambitious to say the least.

KarelXWB · Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:27 pm

RL777 wrote:
I'd love to see Vistara help boost the 777X program, but I'm very skeptical they can make it work. India may be experiencing a surge in demand and steady growth but going from 14 narrow bodies to 50 VLA is ambitious to say the least.

Kingfisher Airlines 2.0 :duck:

boefan · Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:37 pm

Blue Air could announce an order for 20 Boeing 737 MAX at the Paris Air Show next week

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... x-aircraft

anshabhi · Sat Jun 17, 2017 2:54 am

RL777 wrote:
I'd love to see Vistara help boost the 777X program, but I'm very skeptical they can make it work. India may be experiencing a surge in demand and steady growth but going from 14 narrow bodies to 50 VLA is ambitious to say the least.

well its not like they will order them here and get all 50 delivered by next month...
At the earliest, the first one will come by 2020-21 and till then Vistara will have atleast 50-60 NEOs in its fleet, apart from some long haul experience with used B772s from SQ.

KarelXWB · Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:20 am

Shipping spree from China?

This is what we heard, China could order 200 aircraft to appease Trump. MAX 10 likely a part of it.

https://twitter.com/LeehamNews/status/8 ... 0507018241

zkncj · Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:41 am

bunumuring wrote:
i havent heard the Air New Zealand rumour either.... But the last I DID hear was that the A350 was level-pegging with the 777X to replace the classic 777s... With a decision a while off yet. Still, Air New Zealand may pull a rabbit out of its hat in this buyer's market!
I hope that the rumour is true! But 10 frames seem an awful lot in one hit for them. Maybe something like 6 firm and 4 options? Maybe a few extra Dreamliners in the mix as well?
Cheers,
Bunumuring

Didn't they order the 77E all together? seem to remember they came pretty quickly into the fleet. At the same time didn't they order the 2x 7E7-800s?

10 in one hit is that many they currently have 15 777 (77E 8x and 77W 7x), that would allow for the oldest 77W and all of the 77Es to be replaced.

NZ is currently in an upsizing phase and has been for an few years now; for example:

B1900D's - routes covered by the Q300's
Q300s - 72-600s have replaced some of there flying
733 - Replaced by A320s
763 - Replaced by 77E/789s
320 - 321NEO's

ZK-NBT · Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:09 am

zkncj wrote:
bunumuring wrote:
i havent heard the Air New Zealand rumour either.... But the last I DID hear was that the A350 was level-pegging with the 777X to replace the classic 777s... With a decision a while off yet. Still, Air New Zealand may pull a rabbit out of its hat in this buyer's market!
I hope that the rumour is true! But 10 frames seem an awful lot in one hit for them. Maybe something like 6 firm and 4 options? Maybe a few extra Dreamliners in the mix as well?
Cheers,
Bunumuring

Didn't they order the 77E all together? seem to remember they came pretty quickly into the fleet. At the same time didn't they order the 2x 7E7-800s?

10 in one hit is that many they currently have 15 777 (77E 8x and 77W 7x), that would allow for the oldest 77W and all of the 77Es to be replaced.

NZ is currently in an upsizing phase and has been for an few years now; for example:

B1900D's - routes covered by the Q300's
Q300s - 72-600s have replaced some of there flying
733 - Replaced by A320s
763 - Replaced by 77E/789s
320 - 321NEO's

Yep 8 77E's ordered at once and 2 7E7's, 4 763's were replaced at the time.

I'm not sure they will replace any 77W's yet, what they are saying is they are looking at a longer range aircraft, 779's are big and a lot of aircraft to expand with but it could mean at the same time 779's take over 77W routes with some 772 routes going 77W and others 789.

The 778 is a very long range aircraft though with better range and performance than the 779 and it's a little smaller than the 779. UA will also use the 789 on LAX-SIN blocked at 18:15 at 252 seats I would presume several will be blocked maybe 40-50? QF PER-LHR aswell.

scotron11 · Sun Jun 18, 2017 2:52 pm

RL777 wrote:
I'd love to see Vistara help boost the 777X program, but I'm very skeptical they can make it work. India may be experiencing a surge in demand and steady growth but going from 14 narrow bodies to 50 VLA is ambitious to say the least.

Is this the Paris Air Show, or the all Boeing Air Show? Seems all we hear are Boeing orders, nothing from Airbus. Just curious

Stitch · Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:06 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
Shopping spree from China?

This is what we heard, China could order 200 aircraft to appease Trump. MAX 10 likely a part of it.

https://twitter.com/LeehamNews/status/8 ... 0507018241

So looks like I was right about the CALC order being at least in part for the MAX-10.

Hamlet69 · Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:17 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
Shipping spree from China?

This is what we heard, China could order 200 aircraft to appease Trump. MAX 10 likely a part of it.

https://twitter.com/LeehamNews/status/8 ... 0507018241

They could simply reveal some of the UFO's.

Since Trump loves 'fake news', especially his own, he could take credit for being such a great deal-maker and boost his little ego. :duck:

Hamlet69

sassiciai · Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:21 pm

scotron11 wrote:
RL777 wrote:
I'd love to see Vistara help boost the 777X program, but I'm very skeptical they can make it work. India may be experiencing a surge in demand and steady growth but going from 14 narrow bodies to 50 VLA is ambitious to say the least.

Is this the Paris Air Show, or the all Boeing Air Show? Seems all we hear are Boeing orders, nothing from Airbus. Just curious

I remember when airshows were more about announcements, decisions, new technology, etc.... Orders yes of course, but it was not the main purpose of the show. It was, er, a Show Case, where one was invited to look at, read about, learn about - and maybe even order - the aircraft on show!

Now, it's all "Boeing order thread..", "Airbus order thread ....", " "XYZ" order thread...". Obviously numbers of orders indicates how well a model has been received in the market. It seems to me that I would prefer to read about news items at such Shows, the orders just keep flowing all the time (at different rates year-by-year) and can be followed on the OEMs' own websites. Stories about the 737-10 specifications and its new landing gear are more interesting than that one of the usual suspects ordered 100 of them. News about the Chinese and Russian (Brazilian , Canadian, .....) emerging NB aircraft is also interesting, without getting to the extreme of having a "Cessna 152 Order Thread" cluttering up this already cluttered site!

sunrisevalley · Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:38 pm

[quote/] UA will also use the 789 on LAX-SIN blocked at 18:15 at 252 seats I would presume several will be blocked maybe 40-50? QF PER-LHR aswell.[/quote]
Looking at UA on SFO-SIN the typical "in air time" is ~15hr 30min. or less. Extrapolating this out to LAX-SIN gives 16hr 15min. For 249 seats the payload will be about 27.4t, TOW at 251.4t (MTOW 254011kg) So on most days they will be able to do it without blocking seats at takeoff.

andrefranca · Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:44 pm

anshabhi wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
Which seems to be the case with Indian airlines. Roughly speaking, Indigo operates 135 with 459(!) on order; GoAir operates 23 with 140 on order; SpiceJet operates 53 with 207 on order (plus apparently 100 narrowbodies and widebodies to come).

And believe me, all of these aircraft are being actively delivered and filled as well. The demand is indeed very strong in India.

For sure, I travelled around India, I paid 5 usd for a train ticket (depends on the class) to travel for 17 hours? for 20 usd you can fly the same distance in less than 2 hours... People are learning!

448205 · Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:48 pm

Paris is not 'vital' for Boeing. They do not use it like Airbus does to benchmark yearly sales.

Stitch · Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:58 pm

scotron11 wrote:
Is this the Paris Air Show, or the all Boeing Air Show? Seems all we hear are Boeing orders, nothing from Airbus. Just curious

Considering this is the "Boeing News and Orders" thread, if you read something about Airbus, it would be off topic.

Geoff1947 · Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:02 pm

scotron11 wrote:
RL777 wrote:
I'd love to see Vistara help boost the 777X program, but I'm very skeptical they can make it work. India may be experiencing a surge in demand and steady growth but going from 14 narrow bodies to 50 VLA is ambitious to say the least.

Is this the Paris Air Show, or the all Boeing Air Show? Seems all we hear are Boeing orders, nothing from Airbus. Just curious

Show starts tomorrow !! This is just the A.net show thread.

Boeing778X · Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:21 pm

scotron11 wrote:
RL777 wrote:
I'd love to see Vistara help boost the 777X program, but I'm very skeptical they can make it work. India may be experiencing a surge in demand and steady growth but going from 14 narrow bodies to 50 VLA is ambitious to say the least.

Is this the Paris Air Show, or the all Boeing Air Show? Seems all we hear are Boeing orders, nothing from Airbus. Just curious

This thread focuses only on Boeing News and Orders.

Here is the corresponding Airbus thread:

viewtopic.php?t=1365567

fcogafa · Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:01 pm

From FG:

After rumours of the 737 Max 10X’s pending go-ahead have swirled for weeks, Boeing has scheduled a press conference at 10 am on 19 June in the auditorium of the Air and Space museum at Le Bourget, a more spacious venue than Boeing’s media chalet.....

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... 0x-438334/

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