As airlines retiring their A340 and also some older A330, firms are starting passenger to freighter conversion program for A330s, but why not A340? Supposedly aircrafts that cost less to acquire but cost more to fly would be better suit freighter operation, but we are seeing freighter conversion of 330 instead of 340. Is part of the reason being there are relatively few A340 being produced and thus an 340 conversion program would have less return? Will whomever doing 330 freighter conversion able to do the 340 conversion at relative lower cost?

2 Engines to do the same as 4 engines, since the 330/340 are basically the same aircraft, they can use a340 spare parts. Thus saving not only on fuel, but also on spareparts. Not to mention a 2nd hand a330 is not much more expensive compared to a 340.

So if you can save about 2 mil on buying costs, but if you have to spend 1 mil per year extra on extra fuel burn costs, it doesnt add up to it. Well that's just my 2 cents.

c933103 wrote:

As airlines retiring their A340 and also some older A330, firms are starting passenger to freighter conversion program for A330s, but why not A340?

No real market for the type. Both Airbus and third parties like Bedek and LCF Conversions have floated A340 Passenger to Freighter conversions over the past decade, but none of them ever caught enough interest to go past the concept stage.

I think will pass...I'd prefer to stick to my 757, 767, 747

Stitch wrote:

No real market for the type. Both Airbus and third parties like Bedek and LCF Conversions have floated A340 Passenger to Freighter conversions over the past decade, but none of them ever caught enough interest to go past the concept stage.

I'm guessing the relatively small number of A340s manufactured probably also plays a part. I've always thought the A346 would make a pretty sweet cargo plane, particularly to hot & high destinations such as JNB, but I don't see anyone investing in a program for such a small fleet.

seat64k wrote:

Stitch wrote:

No real market for the type. Both Airbus and third parties like Bedek and LCF Conversions have floated A340 Passenger to Freighter conversions over the past decade, but none of them ever caught enough interest to go past the concept stage.

I'm guessing the relatively small number of A340s manufactured probably also plays a part. I've always thought the A346 would make a pretty sweet cargo plane, particularly to hot & high destinations such as JNB, but I don't see anyone investing in a program for such a small fleet.

I thought longer aircraft tend not to be freighters due to loading complications?

VRHNM wrote:

I thought longer aircraft tend not to be freighters due to loading complications?

Hasn't stopped the 747.

Spiderguy252 wrote:

VRHNM wrote:

I thought longer aircraft tend not to be freighters due to loading complications?

Hasn't stopped the 747.

It's not length per se, but that for a stretched aircraft you usually tend to run up against weight limitations before you reach volume limitations, so there is no real benefit to the extra length of the aircraft because you can't make use of it unless your cargo is not very dense.

V/F

VirginFlyer wrote:

Spiderguy252 wrote:

VRHNM wrote:

I thought longer aircraft tend not to be freighters due to loading complications?

Hasn't stopped the 747.

It's not length per se, but that for a stretched aircraft you usually tend to run up against weight limitations before you reach volume limitations, so there is no real benefit to the extra length of the aircraft because you can't make use of it unless your cargo is not very dense.

V/F

I see, thanks for the clarification.

Are 747 still being converted to cargo ?

Without the nose door I'm not sure 747 P2F still makes sense due to the number of engines.

Like in the passenger world 4 engines only make sense if the plane does something no twin can do.

Aesma wrote:

Are 747 still being converted to cargo ?

Without the nose door I'm not sure 747 P2F still makes sense due to the number of engines.

Like in the passenger world 4 engines only make sense if the plane does something no twin can do.

Since the 777F is a very expensive aircraft and there is no 777P2F the 747 P2F makes still a lot of sense for smaller cargo operators that can not afford new planes since it is the only aircraft in its class,

VirginFlyer wrote:

Spiderguy252 wrote:

VRHNM wrote:

I thought longer aircraft tend not to be freighters due to loading complications?

Hasn't stopped the 747.

It's not length per se, but that for a stretched aircraft you usually tend to run up against weight limitations before you reach volume limitations, so there is no real benefit to the extra length of the aircraft because you can't make use of it unless your cargo is not very dense.

V/F

Yes, V/F, but while the 346s are pretty much stretched frames, the 345s are "not so much stretched", neither are the 343s, let alone the few 342s. And the 343s (and 342s, which might, however, primarily be relevant for the VIP airplane market) have a considerably higher MTOW than the 33?s. Also, the 343s with their CFM56 engines are, firstly, not so extremely fuel thirsty, and, secondly, possibly might be re-equipped with P&Ws GTs or CFMs Leap engines, which would considerably improve their fuel burn. In analogy, I recall that quite a number of DC-8s had a very long second life as freighters after having been refitted with CFM56 engines.

Best,
Ferroviarius

Aesma wrote:

Are 747 still being converted to cargo ?

Without the nose door I'm not sure 747 P2F still makes sense due to the number of engines.

Like in the passenger world 4 engines only make sense if the plane does something no twin can do.

No. it has been quite a while since the last cargo door was cut into a 744. Asian just "converted" their last 2 combis but that is primarily interior work as they came with SCDs straight from the factory.

With the lukewarm reception of the A332/3 P2F program we can see there is no demand for an A34X program at all, and the talk of a reengine program is ludicrous.

The DC-8 refit happened when they were still in passenger service, relatively young, and we're a rather drastic increase in fuel efficiency and decrease in noise. Any change in A-340 engines will only be an incremental improvement in either, and will have nowhere near the volume needed to pay off the R&D&certification expenses. The DC-8 experience was very unique and happened at a very particular time in aviation history.

If there would be a booming market for freighters, I would expect somebody to convert A340-200/300 to freighters, but there is no booming market.

mjoelnir wrote:

If there would be a booming market for freighters, I would expect somebody to convert A340-200/300 to freighters, but there is no booming market.

Also their parts other than the engines can be used on A330's. With the air freight market down, the frames probably have more value being broken up for spares.