http://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com ... tercation/

Could of things to notice after watching the video.
1. Officer repeated time again if he had to use force to remove the pax. Guess the after David Dao incident officers are trained to in a different way knowing that everybody has their phone out.
2. The wife should've been smarter and just say we'll get off. Only thing she said was you don't do that to my husband.
3. If he is really a officer himself, then he should know better. Probably why cops and any LEOs for that matter, gets a certain bad rap because of how they think they are above the law and have power.

Where to begin with this?
1. Obviously looking for a payday: a la Dao
2. Really? Over the overhead bin? I'd drag you off the plane too if you're going to be a princess about your precious overhead bin space.
3. Looks like the officer did the best he could, given the stupidity of the situation.

Thanks to social media and the hypersensitivity, expect more events like this as folks are thinking $$ over practical COMMON SENSE!

The man caused a disturbance and was throwing other people's belongings around in the cabin. Nothing to do with Dr Dao who was sitting quietly minding his own business when he was abruptly asked to leave his seat and make space for others... I bet this man will get precious little sympathy...
The officer and the crew both did their best to diffuse a sticky situation but the man elected to keep behaving as a jerk. You just don't throw a fit if you don't find enough bin space right above your old big head! C'mon...

Here's an idea. When idiots like this do this, or drunk passengers cause diversions, etc...simply ban them for 10 years from flying the airline again and consider putting them on some watch list. While the airlines and their greed are partly to blame for incidents like this, so are some of the passengers like this.

The cop says that delta will rebook them on a later flight. Why? In this instance, I disagree with DL. They should receive a lifetime ban from the airline and suspension of said skymiles account. Direct them to the United gates.

Cointrin330 wrote:

Here's an idea. When idiots like this do this, or drunk passengers cause diversions, etc...simply ban them for 10 years from flying the airline again and consider putting them on some watch list. While the airlines and their greed are partly to blame for incidents like this, so are some of the passengers like this.

I agree, they need to be put on a ban list, but they also need consequences, especially in this instance. They held up everyone else on that airplane just because they wanted more space in the overhead compartment. I have to suspect that these types of things will be on the rise, people want to become viral like the man in the United incident.

Reduce overhead bins to hold only jackets/pillows/blankets, remove problem.

Listen, if it doesn't fit under the seat in front of you then it needs to be checked, it's no longer a "carry-on" it's a small luggage bag.

I understand the guy's frustration over the overhead bin issue (I've been there), but acting like a jackwagon isn't the solution. Kudos to the officers for handling things responsibly and for being so clear in their instructions.

I agree, they need to be put on a ban list, but they also need consequences, especially in this instance. They held up everyone else on that airplane just because they wanted more space in the overhead compartment. I have to suspect that these types of things will be on the rise, people want to become viral like the man in the United incident.

I would imagine that if the airlines could reasonably calculate the amount of fuel the bird burned sitting there (engines and APU), crew costs (if applicable), and everything else that Delta had to pay for as a result of this guy that it would add up to a couple thousand dollars. Just guessing, but let's say it did. It may not be much, but it would be a start at deterring people like this. Even if it was only a small claims court case, poorly behaving people really only start to feel things when the consequences of their actions hit them in their wallet. A ban is a great idea but it would presumably only apply to Delta and perhaps to it's alliance members. While I'm in favor of that, there need to be more consequences on the financial side.

Flying just doesn't feel like a pleasurable experience any longer. There is just so much tension.

jumbojet wrote:

The cop says that delta will rebook them on a later flight. Why? In this instance, I disagree with DL. They should receive a lifetime ban from the airline and suspension of said skymiles account. Direct them to the United gates.

Ohhh brother. Even on a thread involving Delta you still find a way to try and trash United. Please let me know when you finally realize enough is enough. I'd like to send you a bottle of suds to celebrate.

77H

DsrtFlyer wrote:

Reduce overhead bins to hold only jackets/pillows/blankets, remove problem.

Listen, if it doesn't fit under the seat in front of you then it needs to be checked, it's no longer a "carry-on" it's a small luggage bag.

Lol unless you're 6'5" crammed in the new 29" pitch they are touting these days. It's a nightmare. Airlines are causing these problems themselves, profits will never be enough for them.

[quote="oldannyboy"]Nothing to do with Dr Dao who was sitting quietly minding his own business when he was abruptly asked to leave his seat and make space for others... /quote]

Yes, Saint Dao.

danman132x wrote:

DsrtFlyer wrote:

Reduce overhead bins to hold only jackets/pillows/blankets, remove problem.

Listen, if it doesn't fit under the seat in front of you then it needs to be checked, it's no longer a "carry-on" it's a small luggage bag.

Lol unless you're 6'5" crammed in the new 29" pitch they are touting these days. It's a nightmare. .

I'm 6'3" and have enough room for a large laptop bag (17") in the seat in front of me, there is enough room.

Airlines are causing these problems themselves, profits will never be enough for them

Passengers are just as much to blame. We demand lowest fares and highest service/amenities, well the world doesn't work like that, cupcake.

If you want cheap flights, expect/accept Greyhound like service.

jumbojet wrote:

The cop says that delta will rebook them on a later flight. Why? In this instance, I disagree with DL. They should receive a lifetime ban from the airline and suspension of said skymiles account. Direct them to the United gates.

Better yet, direct them to the Greyhound station.

77H wrote:

jumbojet wrote:

The cop says that delta will rebook them on a later flight. Why? In this instance, I disagree with DL. They should receive a lifetime ban from the airline and suspension of said skymiles account. Direct them to the United gates.

Ohhh brother. Even on a thread involving Delta you still find a way to try and trash United. Please let me know when you finally realize enough is enough. I'd like to send you a bottle of suds to celebrate.

77H

Okay - easy there.

As a United 1-K, I can say that the Dr. Dao case has turned into a learning and retraining experience for UA 'Corporate'. In other words, we own it. And having flown on 100% full UA planes the last couple of days, I can see it obviously hasn't hurt ticket sales.

And to be perfectly honest after that brouhaha at FLL a couple weeks ago, I personally feel safer after seeing visceral evidence that there will be consequences for bizarre behavior.

Based on the videos, looked like a firm, fair, eviction to me. I wonder if an earlier video will surface showing the initial disturbance he caused by "throwing binned material about".

But I don't understand, the passenger told the officer to leave. The officer disobeyed a direct instruction from the passenger.

xxcr wrote:

It's only stressful if you make it stressful, end of story!

This. If you show up with extra time for check-in & security, know what is allowable on carry-on, and simply follow directions it can be a fairly peaceful trip. Oddly enough, the few times I've had to fly with firearms were easily the smoothest the process has ever been.

Totally. Airports are probably me at my most relaxed!

While the airlines have created this bin space fiasco by charging for checked bags and failing to enforce carry-on restrictions and limits, this passenger is clearly to blame. If you start a confrontation on a plane you are a moron. If what the officer said was true and Delta was going to re-book him... even after all this... and he was still acting like an ass... he deserved to be unceremoniously removed from the jet. Delta should cancel his ticket and ban him from the airline for a period of time. Let this clown find a new way to his destination.

Aptivaboy wrote:

I understand the guy's frustration over the overhead bin issue (I've been there), but acting like a jackwagon isn't the solution. Kudos to the officers for handling things responsibly and for being so clear in their instructions.

I agree, they need to be put on a ban list, but they also need consequences, especially in this instance. They held up everyone else on that airplane just because they wanted more space in the overhead compartment. I have to suspect that these types of things will be on the rise, people want to become viral like the man in the United incident.

I would imagine that if the airlines could reasonably calculate the amount of fuel the bird burned sitting there (engines and APU), crew costs (if applicable), and everything else that Delta had to pay for as a result of this guy that it would add up to a couple thousand dollars. Just guessing, but let's say it did. It may not be much, but it would be a start at deterring people like this. Even if it was only a small claims court case, poorly behaving people really only start to feel things when the consequences of their actions hit them in their wallet. A ban is a great idea but it would presumably only apply to Delta and perhaps to it's alliance members. While I'm in favor of that, there need to be more consequences on the financial side.

Somewhere I once heard..

"It would be good public relations for the big airline to prosecute a little old lady, now would it?"

I think the airlines know this...unfortunately. I'd love to see airlines start going after these cretins.

" Nothing to do with Dr Dao who was sitting quietly minding his own business when he was abruptly asked to leave his seat and make space for others"

Dannyboy, you have no clue what you are talking about. Dao ran past the gate agent to reboard the plane after he had already accepted the $$ to leave, THEN refused to comply with airline agents request, THEN refused to comply with police demands. Really? Give me a break. Dao was every bit as bad as this guy.

tozairport wrote:

" Nothing to do with Dr Dao who was sitting quietly minding his own business when he was abruptly asked to leave his seat and make space for others"

Dannyboy, you have no clue what you are talking about. Dao ran past the gate agent to reboard the plane after he had already accepted the $$ to leave, THEN refused to comply with airline agents request, THEN refused to comply with police demands. Really? Give me a break. Dao was every bit as bad as this guy.

Really?? (being serious here). This is the first time I've heard this version of Dr. Dao's situation. If true, he got what he deserved.

oldannyboy wrote:

The man caused a disturbance and was throwing other people's belongings around in the cabin. Nothing to do with Dr Dao who was sitting quietly minding his own business when he was abruptly asked to leave his seat and make space for others... I bet this man will get precious little sympathy...
The officer and the crew both did their best to diffuse a sticky situation but the man elected to keep behaving as a jerk. You just don't throw a fit if you don't find enough bin space right above your old big head! C'mon...

Dr. Dao is a convicted drug seller for sex. He was sitting and refusing to obey and he's getting plenty of sympathy so who knows.

I wonder if it would start being in the airline's best interest to remove everyone on board the aircraft in situations like this, while keeping the passenger in question on board. I feel like people are less likely to make a scene and the police/flight crew would have had an easier time in de-escalating the situation. Plus-airlines would be able to reduce media exposure.

The passenger was in the wrong, but I feel for him in some ways. It's an annoyance to walk to your seat and find the overhead bin above filled with other passenger's bags that aren't even sitting at our row.

But my god. We are living in such a police state. I know, I know. He didn't listen to instruction blah blah blah. But this would never happen in any other country.

Example below:

I was flying on LX between GVA and FCO this past March. During the final stages of the boarding process, the crew noticed that there was a man sitting in the exit row with a cast on his arm. He was traveling with his wife, who was occupying the seat next to him. The crew told him that he must move seats because he couldn't sit in the row with a cast. The situation got pretty hostile and the man began yelling and screaming at the crew and refused to be separated from his wife. The flight crew was French-speaking and the man was speaking English, and I was under the impression he was an American. The ground staff came onboard and ordered him to come to the front galley to speak with the Cabin Manager. They went back and forth a number of times, and as each second passed the man became impatient and disobedient. The crew stayed calm and pleasant the entire time. They were able to come to an agreement, and the man and his wife were allocated a seat in the rear of the aircraft.

Shortly before pushback, the captain came back to warn them that if they treated the crew like that again they would be offloaded.

In all that commotion, the flight crew not once threatened to call security or police. I was shocked. Of course, if that happened in the states, it would be a whole different story.

USAirALB wrote:

The passenger was in the wrong, but I feel for him in some ways. It's an annoyance to walk to your seat and find the overhead bin above filled with other passenger's bags that aren't even sitting at our row.

It isn't assigned space. The real annoyance is the people who put small bags that easily fit under the seat in the overhead.

My favorite thing with these incidents time and time again is the FA's giving a you know what about other passengers filming the incident happening. Who cares? Or are FA's taught in training to insist in abnormal situations that passengers cease filming/taking pictures?

The TSA should start charging fees for each bag someone carries thru as an inspection charge, payable at the screening gate in cash or a card. A $25 fee will force many to put those bags in check at the counter or skycap, and much of this bag fight over personal space on the plane will be alleviated. This will shorten the lines at the inspection point, and stop delaying those who carry no bags,

airzim wrote:

oldannyboy wrote:

Nothing to do with Dr Dao who was sitting quietly minding his own business when he was abruptly asked to leave his seat and make space for others... /quote]

Yes, Saint Dao.

Well, saint or not saint, he suffered a broken nose, a head concussion, not to mention the shock and horror of being physically attacked and abused. I suppose you've never suffered a violent physical attack, but I can tell you it's a pretty dramatic and shocking thing that stays with you for a very long time afterwards....

tozairport wrote:

" Nothing to do with Dr Dao who was sitting quietly minding his own business when he was abruptly asked to leave his seat and make space for others"

Dannyboy, you have no clue what you are talking about. Dao ran past the gate agent to reboard the plane after he had already accepted the $$ to leave, THEN refused to comply with airline agents request, THEN refused to comply with police demands. Really? Give me a break. Dao was every bit as bad as this guy.

Toza, stick to the facts, and don't make up your own fictional reality.

grbauc wrote:

oldannyboy wrote:

The man caused a disturbance and was throwing other people's belongings around in the cabin. Nothing to do with Dr Dao who was sitting quietly minding his own business when he was abruptly asked to leave his seat and make space for others... I bet this man will get precious little sympathy...
The officer and the crew both did their best to diffuse a sticky situation but the man elected to keep behaving as a jerk. You just don't throw a fit if you don't find enough bin space right above your old big head! C'mon...

Dr. Dao is a convicted drug seller for sex. He was sitting and refusing to obey and he's getting plenty of sympathy so who knows.

Utter crap man. That's what you are saying. What Dr dao has done in his past is IRRELEVANT to the discussion around his accident. Nothing to do with that.
If you got wrongly assailed by someone, do you think your past errors should have some relevance or weight (to your own detriment) when you are in court trying to defend your own rights? Do you think that maybe because you stole a car 20 years ago, or you smoked pot as a youngster, you are thus not entitled to a good defence or a fair trial??
If you think so, then you are in serious need of some human rights training....

grbauc wrote:

Dr. Dao is a convicted drug seller for sex. He was sitting and refusing to obey and he's getting plenty of sympathy so who knows.

The crew who think that "passengers are evil" must conflate this very valid case of passenger removal with Dr. Dao by now attempting to insert a new version of the facts of that case.

This man created a scene on an aircraft and disrespected other passengers by tossing their bags. That is a risk that one takes, given that boarding is now by group and no longer by seat allocation. While one books a seat one doesn't book overhead space right by the seat. Did the guy even try to see if there was space elsewhere? No evidence of this.

Dr. Dao was tossed off because the airline did poor planning of its crew deployment. Two different stories. Whether or not Dr. Dao is a moral person is irrelevant.

Only a jackass fails to understand that post 9/11 one has to be on one's best behavior in airports and so one mustn't trigger a situation by acting out. Let the airlines do this.

oldannyboy wrote:

Well, saint or not saint, he suffered a broken nose, a head concussion, not to mention the shock and horror of being physically attacked and abused. I suppose you've never suffered a violent physical attack, but I can tell you it's a pretty dramatic and shocking thing that stays with you for a very long time afterwards....

LOL you're being serious? What a snowflake you are...

Dao got everything he deserved.

Should he have had to give up his seat in hindsight? No. But that's something you discuss and resolve OFF OF THE PLANE like an adult, not throwing a tantrum in your seat. Let the plane go, get on another, act your effing age.

FA's tell you to deplane... you deplane.
Police tell you to deplane... you effing deplane!

Where the hell do people get off thinking that their rights are more important than others?

ridgid727 wrote:

The TSA should start charging fees for each bag someone carries thru as an inspection charge, payable at the screening gate in cash or a card. A $25 fee will force many to put those bags in check at the counter or skycap, and much of this bag fight over personal space on the plane will be alleviated. This will shorten the lines at the inspection point, and stop delaying those who carry no bags,

Hell, better yet, they should charge all arriving passengers a $500 Departure Fee, payable at the time of booking. This will shorten the lines even more. smh....... When we have to be fined into submission just to friggin' get along, the problem is no longer the airline. This guy would be the same way wherever he goes.

DsrtFlyer wrote:

oldannyboy wrote:

Well, saint or not saint, he suffered a broken nose, a head concussion, not to mention the shock and horror of being physically attacked and abused. I suppose you've never suffered a violent physical attack, but I can tell you it's a pretty dramatic and shocking thing that stays with you for a very long time afterwards....

LOL you're being serious? What a snowflake you are...

Dao got everything he deserved.

Should he have had to give up his seat in hindsight? No. But that's something you discuss and resolve OFF OF THE PLANE like an adult, not throwing a tantrum in your seat. Let the plane go, get on another, act your effing age.

FA's tell you to deplane... you deplane.
Police tell you to deplane... you effing deplane!

Where the hell do people get off thinking that their rights are more important than others?

So you admit he shouldn't have had to give up his seat and you admit that he has rights. How does that equate getting pounded? If you have rights and you are doing nothing wrong, you shouldn't get beat up by the police/security/your neighbor/etc. I'm with you - just get your butt out of your seat and figure it out later - but he didn't, and that doesn't make him a criminal.

lavalampluva wrote:

Flying just doesn't feel like a pleasurable experience any longer. There is just so much tension.

Flying is wonderful. I never have any anxiety. I board, find my seat, stow my belongings, and get caught up on reading or work. I dont get why everyone is stuck on the decline of air travel. We are flying for cheaper than ever, with more point to point service than ever, with more options/information/apps to make picking the best flight very simple.

PlanesNTrains wrote:

So you admit he shouldn't have had to give up his seat and you admit that he has rights. How does that equate getting pounded? If you have rights and you are doing nothing wrong, you shouldn't get beat up by the police/security/your neighbor/etc. I'm with you - just get your butt out of your seat and figure it out later - but he didn't, and that doesn't make him a criminal.

I agree that how United handled an overbooking situation was poor.

HOWEVER, Dao was STILL in the wrong, and his actions or lack thereof actually is a federal offense.

49 U.S.C. § 46504 - U.S. Code - Unannotated Title 49. Transportation § 46504. Interference with flight crew members and attendants

An individual on an aircraft in the special aircraft jurisdiction of the United States who, by assaulting or intimidating a flight crew member or flight attendant of the aircraft, interferes with the performance of the duties of the member or attendant or lessens the ability of the member or attendant to perform those duties, or attempts or conspires to do such an act, shall be fined under title 18, imprisoned for not more than 20 years, or both.  However, if a dangerous weapon is used in assaulting or intimidating the member or attendant, the individual shall be imprisoned for any term of years or for life.

Do their duties include ordering a passenger who boarded legally to get off to cover up their overbooking.

bennett123 wrote:

Do their duties include ordering a passenger who boarded legally to get off to cover up their overbooking.

I strongly suggest you research how airlines work, specifically "Involuntary Denied Boarding" as well as "Contract of Carriage" and "must-ride passenger(s)"

Basically, yes. Over booking is NOT illegal, voluntary removal of the flight was offered and declined, at which point it goes to the computer that picks the last ones to buy their tickets whom do not have frequent flyer miles. Enter Dao.