Ryanair is back to its old strategy of pissing people off. A recently introduced seat assignment algorithm is deliberately separating couples and groups as far apart as possible if they do not pay to select seats.

Full explanation here: http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/new ... 50581.html

The previous and very predictable algorithm seated people together in 95% of cases (at least up to a group of 3). My most recent experience was a group of 5 seated in 4 totally separate rows with about 90 other empty seats when doing a dummy booking.

Ryanair has also seems to have reintroduced several additional checked luggage pricing (these were reduced to 5 or 6 in AGB Year 3).

It is pretty clear why Ryanair is doing this: no way to increase the booked load factor any further (94-96% year around) so the airline has have to find new and creative ways to increase revenue. The ancillaries per passenger are still almost 50% below Wizz Air. Some might also say separated seating as better than a Wizz Air compulsory hand luggage, but it is easy to see how this is going to piss off many people.

Pay for a seat, it's cheap....

Know a few married couples that would embrace not being seated next to their other 60%

Europe is small. Who cares?

This is the reality of a ULCC. Most folks accept these facts and either pony up the reserved seat fee or sit apart for what is normally a flight of two hours or less.

Airlines know folks often fly as cheaply as possible so they in turn do all they can to squeeze out extra cash.

I have nothing against Ryanair but I don't know any other airline that deliberately assigns different seats to bookings of 2 or more.

There was one story on BBC Radio 4 today of a group of 20. Three had paid for emergency exits and got those. The others got seats assigned in 17 different rows, all middle seats.

As for Europe being small, say that again when you are on a 5:30 hour sector from Scandinavia to the Canaries.

32andBelow wrote:

Europe is small. Who cares?

You'd care too if you were travelling with your family and young children. Plus I'd remind you that flights down to the Canary Islands or Cyprus from Northern Europe are 4-5 hours.
From a topic on our company intranet message boards, Jet2 are also scattering pax about the whole plane despite them being on the same PNR.
So FR are not the only ones....

TC957 wrote:

32andBelow wrote:

Europe is small. Who cares?

You'd care too if you were travelling with your family and young children. Plus I'd remind you that flights down to the Canary Islands or Cyprus from Northern Europe are 4-5 hours.
From a topic on our company intranet message boards, Jet2 are also scattering pax about the whole plane despite them being on the same PNR.
So FR are not the only ones....

It's a completely un bundled experience. If assigned seats matter to you then book another carrier or pay the fee. Also something like this take to your reps as you can make a law making it illegal to split families. I know I wouldn't care if I was sat away from my buds or gf for a few hours.

You get what you pay for, you want a cheap airfare so they have to squeeze money out of you elsewhere.

Ohhh wait make sure British Airways doesn't see this ...

Guess we are reaching the climax of the Ryanair succuess story.

Fair enough, that's just your opinion, but being split up as a family on a flight certainly matters to most folk.
Sadly, it will probably take an unsavory incident with a weirdo sitting next to a child - I'm sure I don't need to elaborate - for this to come to the attention of the press and the subsequent law suites against the airline by the parents. It's happened on BA in the past and that's why they are careful about operating a controlled seating allocation.

Just make sure the likes of British Airways, Air France, KLM, Lufthansa, SAS, and Iberia don't see this.

There was always a risk you'd get separated from your travelling companions if you didn't pay to select your seat, the only difference now is that Ryanair is actively using the tactic to make people pay for seat selection which is no real surprise for an airline always aiming for bigger revenue. At the end of the day it's still an optional charge and many won't care where they are sitting so I see no issue with what Ryanair is doing.

Personally, I like a window seat somewhere near the front so I tend to pay the extra even when travelling alone. Wouldn't waste my money on priority boarding though!

LTenEleven wrote:

The ancillaries per passenger are still almost 50% below Wizz Air. Some might also say separated seating as better than a Wizz Air compulsory hand luggage, but it is easy to see how this is going to piss off many people.

Ryanair has also recently threatened to get stricter on hand baggage again as they claim passengers have been taking advantage of it. I'm not sure if they've ruled out a hand baggage charge but with Wizz Air leading the way in ancillary revenue and larger aircraft coming on stream it may tempt Ryanair to squeeze every penny they can out of passengers if base fares will continue to fall as promised.

Dumb them down and beat the public into submission for those cheap fares!
Airborne strap-hangers can't be picky. They should be glad to have a seat at all.

Europe is rather small and the Canaries are in Africa

Great, another a.net thread full of airline policy apologists !

PPVLC wrote:

Europe is rather small and the Canaries are in Africa

From Faro to Tromso is a mere 3968.85 km, so yes Europe is small. As to the Canaries, geographically they may lie of the coast of Africa but politically they are part of Spain and included in the EU. A bit like Hawaii in that respect, definitely not in America but part of the USA.

This new seat assignment algorithm might backfire with increased turnaround times.

“This consequently meant that quite a few groups were not sitting in the seats allocated to them, as a lot of swapping between passengers occurred.

On my last flight this assignment was used. While I got lucky (exit row), there was a lot of movement in the plane of people trying to reshuffle the seats so that they sit next to their friends and family. The crew looked a bit annoyed but tried to be nice. I wouldn't be surprised if Ryanair's turnaround metrics start to go up.

I don't think it's fair to say "don't be cheap, pay for assigned seat!" when you normally have 2 choices, you either pay for it (fair enough) or take your chances at the airport. But this? it's practically forcing you to pay for the seat if you want to travel with your partner.

That's mighty shady, at least own up to the change, Ryanair.

I guess I don't understand? I thought if you wanted to be seated together that you paid to reserve specific seats? I just booked a RT on Frontier (first time on an ULCC) and even though I'm traveling alone I opted to pay $12 each way for a window seat. I figured if I didn't select a seat it would just randomly assign me wherever. If it were my wife and I sitting together, I'd assume the same thing.

JannEejit wrote:

Great, another a.net thread full of airline policy apologists !

This is a textbook example of "calculated misery". Somehow the airline apologists think consumers don't notice these things.

Revelation wrote:

JannEejit wrote:

Great, another a.net thread full of airline policy apologists !

This is a textbook example of "calculated misery". Somehow the airline apologists think consumers don't notice these things.

Then vote with your pocket books.

If you want it to sit together pay the fee, isn't it accepted that Ryan air is an alla-carte pay for what you want airline?

Hoping to get lucky in a random seat assignment seems like bad planning

Other airlines offer seat selection for free...included in a higher ticket price

RoySFlying wrote:

PPVLC wrote:

Europe is rather small and the Canaries are in Africa

From Faro to Tromso is a mere 3968.85 km, so yes Europe is small. As to the Canaries, geographically they may lie of the coast of Africa but politically they are part of Spain and included in the EU. A bit like Hawaii in that respect, definitely not in America but part of the USA.

The Canaries are part of Spain but are in Africa as the French Guiana is in South America and is part of the EU. Yes, I was refering to the geographical aspect of it as many people don't know where the Canaries really are.

I find it funny that people defend this practice, though if it's legal, why not?

I guess I'm a no good communist because I think charging for seat selection (aside from premium seats) should simply be illegal. This is why we have basic consumer protection laws. Feel free to disagree

scutfarcus wrote:

I find it funny that people defend this practice, though if it's legal, why not?

I guess I'm a no good communist because I think charging for seat selection (aside from premium seats) should simply be illegal. This is why we have basic consumer protection laws. Feel free to disagree

I think you can pay for it if you want it or fly another. However I think its bad practice and If given the choice to run a airliner would not do go that route. I get peoples frustration. Airfares are ridiculously cheap and what seems to keep people buying so it is what it is. I pay more to get more and think nothing of it.

TC957 wrote:

Fair enough, that's just your opinion, but being split up as a family on a flight certainly matters to most folk.
Sadly, it will probably take an unsavory incident with a weirdo sitting next to a child - I'm sure I don't need to elaborate - for this to come to the attention of the press and the subsequent law suites against the airline by the parents. It's happened on BA in the past and that's why they are careful about operating a controlled seating allocation.

It seems that the blame should fall on the parents for failing to ensure that their child is seated in a safe place if that happens...

zeke wrote:

Know a few married couples that would embrace not being seated next to their other 60%

scutfarcus wrote:

I find it funny that people defend this practice, though if it's legal, why not?

I guess I'm a no good communist because I think charging for seat selection (aside from premium seats) should simply be illegal. This is why we have basic consumer protection laws. Feel free to disagree

While I don't think it should be illegal, I really don't like it myself. The problem is that the consumers vote with their wallets, and they vote for the cheapest possible fare no matter the service, or lack thereof. The airlines are simply giving the consumers what they want, there is a reason why people keep flocking to Ryanair.

scutfarcus wrote:

I find it funny that people defend this practice, though if it's legal, why not?

I guess I'm a no good communist because I think charging for seat selection (aside from premium seats) should simply be illegal. This is why we have basic consumer protection laws. Feel free to disagree

Hey you pay nothing, you get nothing.

This is what flying a ULCC is, your fare is only coving a seat from point A to point B, nothing more. You want a particular seat, pony up more cash. Isn't this what people wanted, unbundling?

Well it's one thing to not guarantee you a specific seat if you don't pay for selection, but this is stupid. It is calculated misery, which is legal, but that doesn't make it a good thing. They are doing you a service when you pay for seat selection, normally if you don't want this service you opt out and you pay nothing and get nothing, but in this case you opt out and pay nothing and get a disservice. Again it's not illegal, but it's not something I would stick up for out of any stretch of the imagination.

It sounds more like they're holding back more desirable (window/aisle) seats for those willing to pay.

Pay up or shut up. Great way for FR to increase revenue.

Okay so quick question. What happens, for example, when you are faced with weight and balance issues and you need to block off seats in a certain part of the aircraft?
No big deal if you have a full aircraft and don't have 30 7 year old school kids in one section (if they're randomly scatted with families no big deal) but departing here in Australia to say
certain pacific Islands... the average passenger.... how shall we say nicely. Is a little on the larger side of things. If the flight was 1/3 full and they all picked up the front or back only it would be a major issue.

Intra-Europe are all short hops. I don't worry too much about seating unless the flight segment is 10+ hours.

The posts predicting the end of Ryanair are hilarious. This is the airline with 95%+ load factors in WINTER. Everyone knows what you get with Ryanair. You get to your destination. That's it. Seat selection starts at £4 during promotions (the app runs them frequently), it's included on family, flexible and business fares.

I fly Ryanair pretty regularly. This seat selection charge won't put me off.

TC957 wrote:

32andBelow wrote:

Europe is small. Who cares?

You'd care too if you were travelling with your family and young children. Plus I'd remind you that flights down to the Canary Islands or Cyprus from Northern Europe are 4-5 hours.
From a topic on our company intranet message boards, Jet2 are also scattering pax about the whole plane despite them being on the same PNR.
So FR are not the only ones....

But not care enough to pay to choose seats? This is just a typical example of people trying to get something for free that others pay for. It couldn't be clearer, pay to choose your seats, or accept what you are given.

PlanesNTrains wrote:

I guess I don't understand? I thought if you wanted to be seated together that you paid to reserve specific seats? I just booked a RT on Frontier (first time on an ULCC) and even though I'm traveling alone I opted to pay $12 each way for a window seat. I figured if I didn't select a seat it would just randomly assign me wherever. If it were my wife and I sitting together, I'd assume the same thing.

Yes that is exactly it. But some people want the certainty of sitting together without paying the charge which guarantees that.

luv2cattlecall wrote:

It sounds more like they're holding back more desirable (window/aisle) seats for those willing to pay.

And holding back pairs of seats for couples that are not too mean to pay for it. It seems quite logical that those that don't pay will end up being scattered around in undesirable locations

Keith2004 wrote:

If you want it to sit together pay the fee, isn't it accepted that Ryan air is an alla-carte pay for what you want airline?

Hoping to get lucky in a random seat assignment seems like bad planning

Other airlines offer seat selection for free...included in a higher ticket price

It's not about getting lucky though is it ? It's about being deliberately exploited to be unlucky. Cynically manipulating a situation to wrangle more cash from the consumer. It's like a food store knocking down the price of it's goods to hook you in, then charging you double for the grocery bags and another ten to use the parking facility outside. Yeah sure we can talk about cheap fares til the cows come home, but as we've often discussed about the likes of Ryanair, where does the salami slicing end?

A friend of mine refuses to fly Ryanair after finding out they had split up his wife, daughter and himself on a flight from the UK to Italy. His daughter was only four years old at the time and became extremely upset and tearful. Ryanair of course offered to help with one hand out. Fortunately a fellow passenger offered to swap seats. Shameful exploitation of a situation and three customers that never came back.

AJCNL wrote:

But not care enough to pay to choose seats? This is just a typical example of people trying to get something for free that others pay for. It couldn't be clearer, pay to choose your seats, or accept what you are given.

Sorry, disagree on this.

Whilst it may be acceptable to pay something extra to pick a specific seat over the assigned. Deliberately splitting people up who have booked on the same booking, especially those who are quite clearly families with young 'uns, is just disgraceful. As we move to an era where buying an airline ticket apparently does not even secure you the right to fly or remain on the aircraft (see United), I find some people's 'put up or pay up' attitude to these practices disappointing.

Poor Ryanair though, declaring that multi billion annual profit the other day must be hurting them bad...

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1364541&p=19577709&hilit=Ryanair#p19577709

Just checked the seat allocation for my next flight tomorrow. Even if a couple wanted to pay for 2 seats together in a row, they wouldn't be able to do so as all rows already have the middle seat assigned to someone. This gives me the feeling that Ryanair hasn't really thought this through. In particular, since they used to allocate rows 30 and 31 as the very last (even after premium) to always have a couple of 'cheap' seats available if some late booker wants to select one.

Ryanair has always found a way to make people talk about it and they live by the saying that any publicity is good publicity. They tend to make statements and policies that are aimed to annoy people so that they will talk about FR, and clearly this new algorithm is achieving that.

I've always chosen the seats with them as it's generally not expensive to do so and I get to seat on a window seat.

I have flown Ryanair maybe 6 times last month and I haven't noticed any issue of "seats" reassignments or groups changing seats as mentioned above. What I notice (maybe it is just a feeling) is that there are way more people than before with priority boarding. Btw "buying" a seat on FR is 4 euros (I think as I have never bought one) so not a big deal.

I think Vueling or Iberia already have done the same for a while. So those joking about British Airways doing the same... I don't think it will take long.

BrianDromey wrote:

The posts predicting the end of Ryanair are hilarious. This is the airline with 95%+ load factors in WINTER.

It is airliners,net, what you do expect. Btw you forgot to mention 95%+ load factors in winter with so many "weird" routes. I am always amazed at flying some of those "odd routes" in November or February, arriving at the airport thinking "this will half empty because how will Ryanair manage to fly 189 people in this time of the year in this route"... only to see another full plane.

We travel FR regularly as a family - two adults and two toddler children. Never used to pay to pre assign seats and only once, two years ago almost, were we split up. Quick conversation with the service centre soon resolved it free of charge. Annoyingly, despite the system working for us in the past, there is now no choice but to pay for seat reservations when flying with kids. FR pretend they're doing you a favour by only charging the fee for adults (and reducing the fee by 50%) - but I can't help feel it's a tax on family flying!

I avoid flying EI since the IAG takeover, so have had almost all my European flights with FR for nearly two years now and not once have I been separated from mates. We have been allocated seats together every single time, so I really wonder about the authenticity of this story.

I'm generally the biggest fan of Ryanair, not just because they are cheap. It is a very wrong assumption to justify FR's mega success solely on the fact that they offer cheap tickets. In my case it's mostly a case of offering an amazing array of [otherwise unserved] destinations from some very convenient local airports. If FR was not in the business then my 'vacational' portfolio of destinations would be greatly reduced - period. I would never embark on a 300mile train/bus journey to then catch a (connecting, maybe?) flight to an X Y Z regional European destination for a 3-day/5-day break... FR has revolutionized they way Europeans travel... It's not just a question of costs, but a question of convenience, of having direct flight to so so many previously unserved destinations; of having so much more choice...
I am saying all of this to make people understand that above mentioned policy will piss many people off (including me - I have already experienced the inconvenience in 3 flights) but surely FR will keep the business simply because very often there is no alternative, no real choice beyond the offer of LCCs in so many markets, especially the regional ones... If you took LCCs away you'd probably end having less 'mainline' destinations on traditional carriers, via the usual hubs, not to mention far higher prices. I might -or might not- pay the extra, if I need to be seated next to a companion... but that is not the point...
It's vary naïve for some to say 'pay more', 'choose with your wallets' and fly another airline. The choice is simply not there guys...

Flew FR last weekend. Didn't pay for an hour flight but this seems pretty contra to their idea of the nicer Ryanair. The fact is there is still a lot of LCC competition in Europe and Vueling, Wizz, Thomson, etc... do try to get you together. Granted it's not guaranteed, but if you look at a seat map and see a full plane, it's understandable.

We were separated with a couple fully empty rows in between us.

Braybuddy wrote:

I avoid flying EI since the IAG takeover, so have had almost all my European flights with FR for nearly two years now and not once have I been separated from mates. We have been allocated seats together every single time, so I really wonder about the authenticity of this story.

It's a new "rule' that has been enforced over the last 2 weeks. It's happened to me and my family on 3 separate flights already. And it has been confirmed by FR crews to me as well. It's an algorithm used by their computers.
I suppose it's a bit naughty, or mean even, but it will not detract from the overall attractiveness of the FR package. The choice they offer is fantastic and far more vast than that of EI out of DUB, not to mention the dozens of smaller airports they have established bases at.