When thinking about booking with Ryanair, I simply factor seat selection (and, depending on where I fly, luggage, meal, etc.) on their overall price and compare it against other airlines. if they are cheap after this, so be it - I book it. They are pretty efficient anyway. No Delays and you get to get out of the plane pretty quickly regardless of where you sit.
I guess the problem is the consumer perspective which uses the headline price as a comparison factor rather than the whole experience cost meaning that, one day, some airline will sell you a ticket "very cheap" and then charge you to have a seat (let alone a sit you actually want) on top of the price and we would have another post here about it.

I have said it before that, although de-regulation was good, we went to far with it and some regulation in regards to fare structure, seat pitch/width and other ancillaries would be highly advantageous (not back to the 70's but at least something to avoid airlines skinning off their passengers) and was rudely criticised here so will not come back to it again...

Jomar777 wrote:

When thinking about booking with Ryanair, I simply factor seat selection (and, depending on where I fly, luggage, meal, etc.) on their overall price and compare it against other airlines. if they are cheap after this, so be it - I book it. They are pretty efficient anyway. No Delays and you get to get out of the plane pretty quickly regardless of where you sit.
I guess the problem is the consumer perspective which uses the headline price as a comparison factor rather than the whole experience cost meaning that, one day, some airline will sell you a ticket "very cheap" and then charge you to have a seat (let alone a sit you actually want) on top of the price and we would have another post here about it.

I have said it before that, although de-regulation was good, we went to far with it and some regulation in regards to fare structure, seat pitch/width and other ancillaries would be highly advantageous (not back to the 70's but at least something to avoid airlines skinning off their passengers) and was rudely criticised here so will not come back to it again...

So by how much do you want airfares to increase? Because that is what you are calling for.

grbauc wrote:

Revelation wrote:

JannEejit wrote:

Great, another a.net thread full of airline policy apologists !

This is a textbook example of "calculated misery". Somehow the airline apologists think consumers don't notice these things.

Then vote with your pocket books.

Yep, because capitalism.

What's next, deliberately losing your luggage so they sell more trip insurance?

AJCNL wrote:

So by how much do you want airfares to increase? Because that is what you are calling for.

Interesting statement to make as Ryanair announces record profits.

I don't care where I sit on my trips back home. If I'm travelling alone and a couple want to be together I'll swap. I've even been known to give up a window seat to holidaymakers as I know what the destination city looks like on approach.
Last flight with Ryanair there was someone in my seat who I guess was being brazen and wanted to sit beside their companion. I left them there and with the permission of crew moved to another seat.
I figure that the book that I'm reading and the music on my headphones is just the same irrespective of where I'm seated. If they start charging to read my book on the plane then I might get annoyed.

Braybuddy wrote:

I avoid flying EI since the IAG takeover, so have had almost all my European flights with FR for nearly two years now and not once have I been separated from mates. We have been allocated seats together every single time, so I really wonder about the authenticity of this story.

This is a very recent development. You will be in for a surprise next time you checkin on the same booking as your friends.

Revelation wrote:

grbauc wrote:

Revelation wrote:

This is a textbook example of "calculated misery". Somehow the airline apologists think consumers don't notice these things.

Then vote with your pocket books.

Yep, because capitalism.

What's next, deliberately losing your luggage so they sell more trip insurance?

Most people keep buying on them it appears. I don't like doing business with company's that have no soul. Capitalism with compassion

Personally I dont mind paying for a seat ( when I dont have free selection due to status ) . I have actually got used to adding it into the cost when flying LCC and certain other carriers.

If groups want to sit together then they must know what they are booking before they part with their money. The only exception should be that children must be seated with the adult(s) flying with them.

So to get this straight, Ryanair is not saying couples cannot sit together? Seems like more overblown reactions on here from people "who would never dare step foot on FR." Reality is this is exactly the publicity that has contributed to their growth, why they fly more EU travelers than any airline and are growing. Legacies are mimicking FR policies to maintain their enplanements, FR is not having to replicate the legacies.

Heck, I just spent $2000/ticket on BA longhaul and I cannot choose my seats until 24 hours before. Those greedy legacies.

It's definitely happening , flew two legs on FR last weekend and couples were spilt up all over the place - one man sent a message to his wife to take a seat near him and she declined haha

Possibly it's about keeping the aisle and windows seats free for purchase

I know people who never booked seats before who have started to pay for seats after all this time

Easy fix to this problem: Pay for your seat.........

airzona11 wrote:

Legacies are mimicking FR policies to maintain their enplanements, FR is not having to replicate the legacies.

Actually parts of the 'Always Getting Better' initiative at Ryanair do mimic legacy carriers, assigned seating, flexible tickets, Business Plus, My Ryanair, security fast track, Ryanair holidays and now connecting flights.

While the legacies have been in a race to the bottom to catch up with Ryanair, some airlines have stayed in the middle which is where Ryanair is now rushing to move up to, leaving the legacies to play catch up again. Ironically, it was airlines like Aer Lingus (a former legacy) and Norwegian (LCC) that stayed in the middle hybrid position and were ahead of both the ULCC and Legacy packs, at least in terms of service provided.

CKT117 wrote:

We travel FR regularly as a family - two adults and two toddler children. Never used to pay to pre assign seats and only once, two years ago almost, were we split up. Quick conversation with the service centre soon resolved it free of charge. Annoyingly, despite the system working for us in the past, there is now no choice but to pay for seat reservations when flying with kids. FR pretend they're doing you a favour by only charging the fee for adults (and reducing the fee by 50%) - but I can't help feel it's a tax on family flying!

That is something that may need rectifying...flying with minors. Will it take a major incident to bring that problem to FR's attention?

Midwestindy wrote:

Easy fix to this problem: Pay for your seat.........

Ah right, I hadn't realised they were free of charge at point of sale ! Silly old me...

airzona11 wrote:

So to get this straight, Ryanair is not saying couples cannot sit together? Seems like more overblown reactions on here from people "who would never dare step foot on FR." Reality is this is exactly the publicity that has contributed to their growth, why they fly more EU travelers than any airline and are growing. Legacies are mimicking FR policies to maintain their enplanements, FR is not having to replicate the legacies.

Heck, I just spent $2000/ticket on BA longhaul and I cannot choose my seats until 24 hours before. Those greedy legacies.

Yes, there is an unavoidable choice in the booking process:
(a) pay a small fee to book specific seats (thereby getting the guarantee to sit together if you want to)
(b) don't pay a small fee to book specific seats (thereby accepting that you will be wherever you end up, with no guarantee to sit together)

It really could not be clearer.

The overwhelming majority of passengers are happy to do (a) or (b) according to the value they personally attach to the two options. There is however a group who choose option (b), but seem to want most of the benefits of option (a).

TC957 wrote:

32andBelow wrote:

Europe is small. Who cares?

You'd care too if you were travelling with your family and young children. Plus I'd remind you that flights down to the Canary Islands or Cyprus from Northern Europe are 4-5 hours.
From a topic on our company intranet message boards, Jet2 are also scattering pax about the whole plane despite them being on the same PNR.
So FR are not the only ones....

Thats because most people pay for seats with jet2 and it will start to fill up the empty seats starting from the back putting groups together on a first come first served basis so if you are a group checking in last then all ypu have left could be seats scattered all over rhen plane especially on full or nearly full flights. Moral of the story here is check in online early as soon as can so you would be placed as close together as possible.

AJCNL wrote:

(a) pay a small fee to book specific seats

This is the "small" fee for a seat selection on a Y, RT BOS-LHR-PRG on BA: $162

aemoreira1981 wrote:

CKT117 wrote:

We travel FR regularly as a family - two adults and two toddler children. Never used to pay to pre assign seats and only once, two years ago almost, were we split up. Quick conversation with the service centre soon resolved it free of charge. Annoyingly, despite the system working for us in the past, there is now no choice but to pay for seat reservations when flying with kids. FR pretend they're doing you a favour by only charging the fee for adults (and reducing the fee by 50%) - but I can't help feel it's a tax on family flying!

That is something that may need rectifying...flying with minors. Will it take a major incident to bring that problem to FR's attention?

Indeed, the UK's CAA state quite clearly that the airline should take responsibility for seating families together and should not charge for this. https://www.caa.co.uk/Blog-Posts/Are-yo ... fortably-/

It feels like airlines are deliberately confusing 'sitting together' with 'paying to choose your seats' - with FR, the latter is now compulsory if travelling with a child.

AJCNL wrote:

Yes, there is an unavoidable choice in the booking process:
(a) pay a small fee to book specific seats (thereby getting the guarantee to sit together if you want to)
(b) don't pay a small fee to book specific seats (thereby accepting that you will be wherever you end up, with no guarantee to sit together)

It really could not be clearer.

The overwhelming majority of passengers are happy to do (a) or (b) according to the value they personally attach to the two options. There is however a group who choose option (b), but seem to want most of the benefits of option (a).

The issue is that it used to be they would try to seat people together if there were available seats. They just kind of quietly moved to random assignment which will split people up.

Most carriers try to keep people on the same reservation together, even if you don't pay for a seat. That seems to be a pretty big difference.

Most people keep buying on them it appears. I don't like doing business with company's that have no soul. Capitalism with compassion

[/quote]

Oh wow. Clap clap. You take the cake. "Businesses with a soul & Capitalism with compassion". I bet you work in marketing?"Fly BA, we fly the flag and have a soul!". "fly DL, fair trade friendly skies!"
Yeah, 'cause BA, DL or UA have a soul instead. C'mon. Get real man.

AJCNL wrote:

airzona11 wrote:

So to get this straight, Ryanair is not saying couples cannot sit together? Seems like more overblown reactions on here from people "who would never dare step foot on FR." Reality is this is exactly the publicity that has contributed to their growth, why they fly more EU travelers than any airline and are growing. Legacies are mimicking FR policies to maintain their enplanements, FR is not having to replicate the legacies.

Heck, I just spent $2000/ticket on BA longhaul and I cannot choose my seats until 24 hours before. Those greedy legacies.

Yes, there is an unavoidable choice in the booking process:
(a) pay a small fee to book specific seats (thereby getting the guarantee to sit together if you want to)
(b) don't pay a small fee to book specific seats (thereby accepting that you will be wherever you end up, with no guarantee to sit together)

It really could not be clearer.

The overwhelming majority of passengers are happy to do (a) or (b) according to the value they personally attach to the two options. There is however a group who choose option (b), but seem to want most of the benefits of option (a).

Not really. It's not that people are so stupid and cannot understand this, sorry. Maybe you are not familiar with flying FR. It's simply that up to two weeks ago, even when not buying pre-assigned seating, the airline would still try to seat you together with the people under the same booking number at check-in time. Most times you would be seated together anyway, you would just not be able to choose the part of the cabin, or the row. Now an algorithm built into their computer system purposefully separates as far away as physically possible all those travelling under one booking number at check in time. That's different.

gatibosgru wrote:

AJCNL wrote:

(a) pay a small fee to book specific seats

This is the "small" fee for a seat selection on a Y, RT BOS-LHR-PRG on BA: $162

My comment was entirely regarding Ryanair, the subject of this thread. I rate BA a worse option than many so called budget airlines these days.

oldannyboy wrote:

AJCNL wrote:

airzona11 wrote:

So to get this straight, Ryanair is not saying couples cannot sit together? Seems like more overblown reactions on here from people "who would never dare step foot on FR." Reality is this is exactly the publicity that has contributed to their growth, why they fly more EU travelers than any airline and are growing. Legacies are mimicking FR policies to maintain their enplanements, FR is not having to replicate the legacies.

Heck, I just spent $2000/ticket on BA longhaul and I cannot choose my seats until 24 hours before. Those greedy legacies.

Yes, there is an unavoidable choice in the booking process:
(a) pay a small fee to book specific seats (thereby getting the guarantee to sit together if you want to)
(b) don't pay a small fee to book specific seats (thereby accepting that you will be wherever you end up, with no guarantee to sit together)

It really could not be clearer.

The overwhelming majority of passengers are happy to do (a) or (b) according to the value they personally attach to the two options. There is however a group who choose option (b), but seem to want most of the benefits of option (a).

Not really. It's not that people are so stupid and cannot understand this, sorry. Maybe you are not familiar with flying FR. It's simply that up to two weeks ago, even when not buying pre-assigned seating, the airline would still try to seat you together with the people under the same booking number at check-in time. Most times you would be seated together anyway, you would just not be able to choose the part of the cabin, or the row. Now an algorithm built into their computer system purposefully separates as far away as physically possible all those travelling under one booking number at check in time. That's different.

The wording on their website is "Pick your seat - sit beside friends or family" (It costs from €2 by the way!).
If you don't book a seat, a pop-up window warns: "You could be stuck in a middle seat - We will randomly assign one to you - You might not be seated next to one another", you have to click to agree this! How much clearer does it have to be? What happened in the past is irrelevant, Ryanair is being 100% transparent about this.

You mention check-in time. That is up to 60 days in advance. Obviously they will allocate the least popular seats at that stage as during the subsequent 2 months there will be many passengers who will want to pay for better seats or to sit together, so they will certainly keep those seats free for those passengers.

If I want a window or an aisle seat and don't care about where then I'd guess the logic behind this seat allocation software is offering aisle or window seats first so that they can offer the most possible number of adjacent seats later on as the date of the flight approaches. If so, then I'll continue with my strategy of checking in online as soon check in opens.

It appears Ryanair are running out of ideas to generate ancillary income if they are trying desparate measures like this.

I'm convinced that if Ryanair want to make more money then they need break away from 737-800 and Max planes and move to 100 seater planes and wide-bodies for the different routes beyond their standard routes. These routes won't be as profitable as their core business but it is fresh business that they haven't been able to exploit up until now. they can't fill a 737 on some potential routes but they could fill a 90 to 100 seater plane.
If you look at their route map it is hard to see where they will get much more growth if they don't start serving smaller cities.
It isn't as though they can't get the cash to buy these planes; their bonds could almost be sold with negative yield at this stage because investors are so desparate for safe harbours for their money. For instance Ryanair could go to Bombardier and say give me a reengined Q400 with 12 feet added in the middle. Here is a few hundred million and a 100 firm orders; 3 years time and Ryanair are in the 100 seater market with a plane that costs near enough the same per seat as their 737 planes.

Braybuddy wrote:

I avoid flying EI since the IAG takeover, so have had almost all my European flights with FR for nearly two years now and not once have I been separated from mates. We have been allocated seats together every single time, so I really wonder about the authenticity of this story.

i travel with Ryanair once a year, two adults and two children. I've never paid for seat allocation and we've always sit together even with the 3 seats on one side and me on the other side of the aisle. Once we even got an emergency row but that's not permitted with under 18's so they moved us back a row.

mad99 wrote:

Braybuddy wrote:

I avoid flying EI since the IAG takeover, so have had almost all my European flights with FR for nearly two years now and not once have I been separated from mates. We have been allocated seats together every single time, so I really wonder about the authenticity of this story.

i travel with Ryanair once a year, two adults and two children. I've never paid for seat allocation and we've always sit together even with the 3 seats on one side and me on the other side of the aisle. Once we even got an emergency row but that's not permitted with under 18's so they moved us back a row.

Hellooo?? This is a NEW thing. NEW.

AJCNL wrote:

oldannyboy wrote:

AJCNL wrote:

Yes, there is an unavoidable choice in the booking process:
(a) pay a small fee to book specific seats (thereby getting the guarantee to sit together if you want to)
(b) don't pay a small fee to book specific seats (thereby accepting that you will be wherever you end up, with no guarantee to sit together)

It really could not be clearer.

The overwhelming majority of passengers are happy to do (a) or (b) according to the value they personally attach to the two options. There is however a group who choose option (b), but seem to want most of the benefits of option (a).

Not really. It's not that people are so stupid and cannot understand this, sorry. Maybe you are not familiar with flying FR. It's simply that up to two weeks ago, even when not buying pre-assigned seating, the airline would still try to seat you together with the people under the same booking number at check-in time. Most times you would be seated together anyway, you would just not be able to choose the part of the cabin, or the row. Now an algorithm built into their computer system purposefully separates as far away as physically possible all those travelling under one booking number at check in time. That's different.

The wording on their website is "Pick your seat - sit beside friends or family" (It costs from €2 by the way!).
If you don't book a seat, a pop-up window warns: "You could be stuck in a middle seat - We will randomly assign one to you - You might not be seated next to one another", you have to click to agree this! How much clearer does it have to be? What happened in the past is irrelevant, Ryanair is being 100% transparent about this.

You mention check-in time. That is up to 60 days in advance. Obviously they will allocate the least popular seats at that stage as during the subsequent 2 months there will be many passengers who will want to pay for better seats or to sit together, so they will certainly keep those seats free for those passengers.

Nope. Last week. Three of us travelling on not-so-full aircraft (yes, for once.. it sometimes happens, even on FR) and we end in rows 7, 19 and 32; and two are window seats. So, no, they don't assign only middle seats - not at all. They just split up people. And not randomly, but as far away as possible.

oldannyboy wrote:

Nope. Last week. Three of us travelling on not-so-full aircraft (yes, for once.. it sometimes happens, even on FR) and we end in rows 7, 19 and 32; and two are window seats. So, no, they don't assign only middle seats - not at all. They just split up people. And not randomly, but as far away as possible.

Which makes sense as only a 1/3 of the seats are middle seats

oldannyboy wrote:

AJCNL wrote:

oldannyboy wrote:

Not really. It's not that people are so stupid and cannot understand this, sorry. Maybe you are not familiar with flying FR. It's simply that up to two weeks ago, even when not buying pre-assigned seating, the airline would still try to seat you together with the people under the same booking number at check-in time. Most times you would be seated together anyway, you would just not be able to choose the part of the cabin, or the row. Now an algorithm built into their computer system purposefully separates as far away as physically possible all those travelling under one booking number at check in time. That's different.

The wording on their website is "Pick your seat - sit beside friends or family" (It costs from €2 by the way!).
If you don't book a seat, a pop-up window warns: "You could be stuck in a middle seat - We will randomly assign one to you - You might not be seated next to one another", you have to click to agree this! How much clearer does it have to be? What happened in the past is irrelevant, Ryanair is being 100% transparent about this.

You mention check-in time. That is up to 60 days in advance. Obviously they will allocate the least popular seats at that stage as during the subsequent 2 months there will be many passengers who will want to pay for better seats or to sit together, so they will certainly keep those seats free for those passengers.

Nope. Last week. Three of us travelling on not-so-full aircraft (yes, for once.. it sometimes happens, even on FR) and we end in rows 7, 19 and 32; and two are window seats. So, no, they don't assign only middle seats - not at all. They just split up people. And not randomly, but as far away as possible.

Ryanair has a remedy for your situation, clearly offering you to purchase assigned seating.

Are they doing it for children and young adults (12-15 years old) aswell

Ryanair is not deliberately trying to put people as far apart as they can. They are just assigning middle seats.

Anyone without a family and small children will probably not understand that being separated is a huge burden for the family. Next, many people fly Ryanair precisely because they cannot afford to fly another airline, people are taking holidays scraping together what little money they have been able to save and cannot afford another fee, so not only do the poor have to endure flying Ryanair, they can now be humiliated by being separated, not to mention more babies crying on the plane because daddy had to go to the back of the bus......

While thankfully most of us can afford to fly a different airline, this is discrimination against the poor and should be regulated against in my opinion. People often forget that there are people out there that count their pennies.

Redd wrote:

Anyone without a family and small children will probably not understand that being separated is a huge burden for the family. Next, many people fly Ryanair precisely because they cannot afford to fly another airline, people are taking holidays scraping together what little money they have been able to save and cannot afford another fee, so not only do the poor have to endure flying Ryanair, they can now be humiliated by being separated, not to mention more babies crying on the plane because daddy had to go to the back of the bus......

While thankfully most of us can afford to fly a different airline, this is discrimination against the poor and should be regulated against in my opinion. People often forget that there are people out there that count their pennies.

It's a free market mate. They can do whatever they want. If they alienate this segment then another company will come in and fill it.

The issue is not just seating people apart but seating people as far apart as possible.

I actually had friends of mine who checked in today all on one booking and did not buy seats. They were auto assigned 5B 6B 7B .

OA260 wrote:

I actually had friends of mine who checked in today all on one booking and did not buy seats. They were auto assigned 5B 6B 7B .

So that's at least 3 of us being seated together using single booking and not paying

My flights are always full as well

Redd wrote:

Anyone without a family and small children will probably not understand that being separated is a huge burden for the family. Next, many people fly Ryanair precisely because they cannot afford to fly another airline, people are taking holidays scraping together what little money they have been able to save and cannot afford another fee, so not only do the poor have to endure flying Ryanair, they can now be humiliated by being separated, not to mention more babies crying on the plane because daddy had to go to the back of the bus......

While thankfully most of us can afford to fly a different airline, this is discrimination against the poor and should be regulated against in my opinion. People often forget that there are people out there that count their pennies.

I'm platinum on skyteam
I've used them 4 times this year for work
Direct flights, timetable and non reclining seats are better than a crap lounge

I do add the pick seat and board early so I'm sure to keep by carry on.

Ryanair now allows to buy seat after you have been assigned a free seat. It even suggest that when printing boarding pass - Do not like your seat? - Pay to change it. The price seems to be the same. The only problem that options may be scarse if you checkin late. So for a couple it may be sufficient to buy one seat next to another that was assigned for free.

LTenEleven wrote:

I have nothing against Ryanair but I don't know any other airline that deliberately assigns different seats to bookings of 2 or more.

There was one story on BBC Radio 4 today of a group of 20. Three had paid for emergency exits and got those. The others got seats assigned in 17 different rows, all middle seats.

As for Europe being small, say that again when you are on a 5:30 hour sector from Scandinavia to the Canaries.

Allegiant does the same and has for several years.

pompos wrote:

This new seat assignment algorithm might backfire with increased turnaround times.

“This consequently meant that quite a few groups were not sitting in the seats allocated to them, as a lot of swapping between passengers occurred.

On my last flight this assignment was used. While I got lucky (exit row), there was a lot of movement in the plane of people trying to reshuffle the seats so that they sit next to their friends and family. The crew looked a bit annoyed but tried to be nice. I wouldn't be surprised if Ryanair's turnaround metrics start to go up.

Thank You! I was reading this thread I was waiting for someone to pick up on this!

Its' going to kill their turnaround times with all that swapping going on. People will always do it.

mad99 wrote:

OA260 wrote:

I actually had friends of mine who checked in today all on one booking and did not buy seats. They were auto assigned 5B 6B 7B .

So that's at least 3 of us being seated together using single booking and not paying

My flights are always full as well

Technically seating you in row 5, 6 & 7 is not seeing you together. You would have to turn around to talk to each other.

OA260 wrote:

I actually had friends of mine who checked in today all on one booking and did not buy seats. They were auto assigned 5B 6B 7B .

How many days from their check-in to flight?

Midwestindy wrote:

Easy fix to this problem: Pay for your seat.........

Or avoid a dickish airline that deliberately goes out of its way to make your trip more miserable.

leghorn wrote:

OA260 wrote:

I actually had friends of mine who checked in today all on one booking and did not buy seats. They were auto assigned 5B 6B 7B .

How many days from their check-in to flight?

They are flying 7th June.

OK. Will have to wait and see later after the change has bedded in to see if they keep offering middle seats.

If many people are paying for seats when traveling in pairs or groups then I doubt that they'll be forcing middle seats on too many people 4 days out from booking.

Here is the Ryanair PDF with actual facts.

https://www.ryanair.com/content/dam/rya ... online.pdf

I'd still prefer to have a Window or Aisle seat but I don't see myself paying for it as it just brings the price of the ticket closer to the price of an alternative airline.

I paid 4 euro more to pick my seat and 29 for the ticket

They change more the closer to the front

I paid 4 euro more to pick my seat and 29 for the ticket

They change more the closer to the front

Newbiepilot wrote:

Ryanair is not deliberately trying to put people as far apart as they can. They are just assigning middle seats.

NOT.CORRECT.

They DO indeed put people apart, and as far away as possible from the rest of the group in the same booking. And they also assign window and aisle seats in the process.

Also...it's NOT 2euro....it's quite a bit more...today, for my next flight, the cheapest seats were 4.50euro...

I do have to say I'm going to miss the old algorithm. I had found it online, and for years I've flown Ryanair twice a week on my favorite seat for free, just by keeping an eye on the available seats and checking in for free at the right times.

I'll have to keep an eye out until the new algorithm starts finding its way to the net