I can confirm Iberia and Level do the same thing.

Ryanair has discovered a revenue opportunity.

What they have done, is basically to introduce a new harasment and offer their passengers the option to pay in order to avoid it.

This is how the mafia operates.

Way to go Ryanair.

JannEejit wrote:

jomur wrote:

offloaded wrote:

The other "advantage" of purchasing seats is that you can print your boarding cards 30 (or is it 60 now?) days in advance, otherwise it's only 4 days before travel. If you think FR is bad, try BA. Unless you have Gold or Silver (Bronze is free 7 days before departure) Exec Club status, and unless you have the top 2 pricing levels (C or J) you have to pay for a seat if you want to be sure where you're going to sit. I have clients on the same PNR scattered around the cabin quite often. Specific seats in Club World are anything from £62 upwards. Many people who are regular BA pax, get quite offended when told they although have a Club class ticket, they have to pay more for a specific seat.

But when you check-in with BA they will give you 2 seats together if they are available... The whole point of this thread is that Ryanair will deliberately separate the passengers, BA don't...

Looks like BA have joined in with this game of musical chairs...

http://www.aviationfigures.com/passenge ... er-flight/

That sounds like its for the HBO fares where you cannot select a seat... Normal fares you can select any free seat when you do OLCI.

downtown273 wrote:

seahawk wrote:

pompos wrote:

The new system should make this easier, as it preserves more empty rows and more options for 2 empty seats next to each other.

Actually, this is incorrect.

The old algorithm auto-allocated each row left to right, from A to F. So, even if you checked in close to the departure date/time, chances were the two people would get to sit together.

The new system allocates seats B and E first, so after the first people check-in, most couples won't be able to sit together as all middle seats will be taken.

Best seats for a couple are C and D, you both have aisle access, neither has the dreaded middle seat, and certainly on a 737 you are close enough to each other.

oldannyboy wrote:

dean wrote:

oldannyboy wrote:

I might -or might not- pay the extra, if I need to be seated next to a companion... but that is not the point...
It's vary naïve for some to say 'pay more', 'choose with your wallets' and fly another airline. The choice is simply not there guys...

With such a high load factor, of course they are looking into every opportunity to increase their revenue. And as far as load factor and revenue metrics keep performing as they are, I wouldn't describe the situation as pax are getting pissed. When they get real pissed, they will choose an other company to get from A to B.

.

It's vary naïve for some to say 'pay more', 'choose with your wallets' and fly another airline. The choice is simply not there guys

Sorry for quoting myself, I know it looks a bit bold and pompous... But very often the choice is simply not there for people, both in terms of routes served by FR (the 'legacies', if you could call them that, just don't bother serving so many regional/peripheral/secondary airports) and price/cost-effective offering...
Me personally I would not be able (at least from the three main airports within a range of 300Kms from my home) to take my business to any other airline for my next few planned trips.... the legacies simply don't serve the four destinations of some of my next summer breaks that I have booked on FR...unless I want to drive 400Kms to a hub, or backtrack to a major European hub, waste a whole day per segment with a long layover, and spend ten times more money....

Yes, Ryanair serves routes that other carriers can't make money on. How did you manage before Ryanair came along? You either didn't fly to those destinations, or you had a longer, more expensive journey. Ryanair can serve those routes that others can't because of their business model. Accept their business model or don't use them! You can not seriously say that you have no other choice than to fly Ryanair, and then go on to say that you are travelling on a summer break. There is a myriad of alternatives to going on a summer break with Ryanair.

sergegva wrote:

I'm not sure easyjet is any better here. I recently booked 3 tickets GVA-ORY, 6 months in advance. During the reservation process, 90% of the seats were empty, and there was tons of empty half-rows.
I didn't pay to select seats. We ended at the last row of the new seat configuation's A320 (186 pax), the most cramped & without window.

Are you serious? You booked a flight 6 months in advance and chose not to book seats, and are surprised you got the worst seats on the plane? Shall I tell you what happens in the following 6 months? Loads of passengers go on to the website to make a booking, and like me they go straight to the seat plan and book their choice of seat. Obviously easyjet wants to offer the widest choice of desirable seats so obviously those who have indicated that they don't care where they sit will be seated in the places where people who do care where they sit don't want to go. Me, I'm invariably in 2D and very happy to spend a little extra to be there!

SCQ83 wrote:

All this rant for a 4 Euro fee.

In any case I can't see the trauma when a couple or a group of friends are separated for two hours in a plane. With children or someone with a disability OK, but the other cases... you pay 4 euros and that it is.

And that is the whole point. This is about people who are too mean to pay €4 to sit together!

AJCNL wrote:

And that is the whole point. This is about people who are too mean to pay €4 to sit together!

Please get over yourself.
This is a disgraceful business practice, nothing else (no matter if it's Ryanair or anyone else).
There is absolutely no reason to split up anyone travelling together, especially families.
I can't think of any cost associated with not spilitting up groups, so I think this is only harasment in order to milk your costumers for another ancillary fee.

But everyone here supporting this kind of practice, would applaud it, if the same was done fx. at sport venues.
Random assignment, but the remedy would be a $10 fee pr person.

It's a deliberately mean policy and I think they will find it counterproductive as it creates resentment and bad feelings towards the company. I flew with Ryanair recently and they had something like a 30 pounds fee for baggage and so I flew without luggage but I was hardly impressed.

Ryanair relies on its reputation of having very low fares to attract customers. They use these low fares as a form of advertising. If their cheap fares become known as a fake gimmick (because afterwards they add on all kinds of unreasonable and disproportionate fees) then their low fares become a lot less impressive.

Dahlgardo wrote:

Ryanair has discovered a revenue opportunity.
What they have done, is basically to introduce a new harasment and offer their passengers the option to pay in order to avoid it.
This is how the mafia operates.
Way to go Ryanair.

I would not go quite that far as to liken them to the Mafia, but yes it is a disgraceful thing to do.

CrisL wrote:

I would not go quite that far as to liken them to the Mafia, but yes it is a disgraceful thing to do.

Yeah, different from the mafia in the way that it's not illegal, but the ethics do not differ much.
Ryanair prey on the weak. This policy hurts the most voulnarable, families with children, people who have anxieties about flying etc.
It's a dishonest and disgraceful way to make money.

AJCNL wrote:

SCQ83 wrote:

All this rant for a 4 Euro fee.

In any case I can't see the trauma when a couple or a group of friends are separated for two hours in a plane. With children or someone with a disability OK, but the other cases... you pay 4 euros and that it is.

And that is the whole point. This is about people who are too mean to pay €4 to sit together!

Not really. Nobody here is disputing that €4 is too much to pay.

What people are saying is that it's a dirty business practice to inconvenience passengers on purpose.
One thing is no frills, not offering freebies. That's accepted industry-wide. But I believe this is an effort to actively inconvenience customers so that they will feel unhappy and pay.

Dahlgardo wrote:

This is a disgraceful business practice, nothing else (no matter if it's Ryanair or anyone else).

But everyone here supporting this kind of practice, would applaud it, if the same was done fx. at sport venues.
Random assignment, but the remedy would be a $10 fee pr person.

When you book tickets to a sport event you get assigned seats because it would be impossible to get tens of thousands of people sited in order. When you buy a contract of carrying you from A to B that does not include an assigned seat (in this case). Some suppliers give you this "perk" but don't think you're not paying for it.

peterinlisbon wrote:

It's a deliberately mean policy and I think they will find it counterproductive as it creates resentment and bad feelings towards the company. I flew with Ryanair recently and they had something like a 30 pounds fee for baggage and so I flew without luggage but I was hardly impressed.

Ryanair relies on its reputation of having very low fares to attract customers. They use these low fares as a form of advertising. If their cheap fares become known as a fake gimmick (because afterwards they add on all kinds of unreasonable and disproportionate fees) then their low fares become a lot less impressive.

Don't forget that Ryanair improves their business metrics year by year. It's very very likely that these new policies have been verified by internal tests and assessments prior the decision making. Of course there are always going to be a bunch of customers who disagree with some business policies but this is the time when these customers should decide whether they choose another carrier or just keep going on. Moaning about it while still using their service is just pointless in my opinion.

Time will tell whether they alienate their customers by charging such high fees but I think that it will have a negative impact.

dean wrote:

When you book tickets to a sport event you get assigned seats because it would be impossible to get tens of thousands of people sited in order. When you buy a contract of carrying you from A to B that does not include an assigned seat (in this case). Some suppliers give you this "perk" but don't think you're not paying for it.

Well, you could be assigned a random seat when you buy a ticket for a sportsgame and then be offered to buy a specific seat at an additional cost if you want to be seated next to your friends. It would be exactly the same nickel and diming as with Ryanair. Or if you want to go to cinema with your girlfriend. You will be offered random seats when you purchase the tickets. Why should the cinema offer you that perk for free?

Fact of the matter is, that it costs an airline the same amount to assign seats randomly or next, or as close, to each other as possible.
Only reason for an airlines to assign seating randomly is to increase income from ancillary fees.

I have difficulty finding words as to how pathetic this new Ryanair policy is.
Now it's considered a perk to be assigned a seat close to the people you are travelling with, be it family, girlfriend or friends when it costs the airline nothing.
Where has common decency gone?

It is sad beyond words.

But you can always count on Ryanair to set the bar at a new record low.

Dahlgardo wrote:

dean wrote:

When you book tickets to a sport event you get assigned seats because it would be impossible to get tens of thousands of people sited in order. When you buy a contract of carrying you from A to B that does not include an assigned seat (in this case). Some suppliers give you this "perk" but don't think you're not paying for it.

Well, you could be assigned a random seat when you buy a ticket for a sportsgame and then be offered to buy a specific seat at an additional cost if you want to be seated next to your friends. It would be exactly the same nickel and diming as with Ryanair. Or if you want to go to cinema with your girlfriend. You will be offered random seats when you purchase the tickets. Why should the cinema offer you that perk for free?

Fact of the matter is, that it costs an airline the same amount to assign seats randomly or next, or as close, to each other as possible.
Only reason for an airlines to assign seating randomly is to increase income from ancillary fees.

I have difficulty finding words as to how pathetic this new Ryanair policy is.
Now it's considered a perk to be assigned a seat close to the people you are travelling with, be it family, girlfriend or friends when it costs the airline nothing.
Where has common decency gone?

It is sad beyond words.

But you can always count on Ryanair to set the bar at a new record low.

THIS !!!

AJCNL wrote:

sergegva wrote:

I'm not sure easyjet is any better here. I recently booked 3 tickets GVA-ORY, 6 months in advance. During the reservation process, 90% of the seats were empty, and there was tons of empty half-rows.
I didn't pay to select seats. We ended at the last row of the new seat configuation's A320 (186 pax), the most cramped & without window.

Are you serious? You booked a flight 6 months in advance and chose not to book seats, and are surprised you got the worst seats on the plane? Shall I tell you what happens in the following 6 months? Loads of passengers go on to the website to make a booking, and like me they go straight to the seat plan and book their choice of seat. Obviously easyjet wants to offer the widest choice of desirable seats so obviously those who have indicated that they don't care where they sit will be seated in the places where people who do care where they sit don't want to go. Me, I'm invariably in 2D and very happy to spend a little extra to be there!

Yes, I'm surprised, because I flew with Easyjet more than a dozen of times and it was the first time I ended in the last row. And I dont think that "Loads of passengers" buy their seat on Easyjet. Not yet. The typical Easyjet traveler don't care about seat selection at all.

BBC Watchdog on now ( Consumer program ) and investigating FR over this issue in the next 15-20 mins. Link here if anyone wants to watch :


https://www.filmon.tv/channel/bbc-one

Or BBC and iPlayer

As expected they didn't admit to changing their algorithms despite heavy anecdotal evidence to the contrary.

Despite what you think of this policy, you have to agree that to apparently lie as brazenly as this is nothing other than treating their customers as complete idiots!

Still they managed to get some free publicty again. #NoPublicityIsBadPublicity

He did pretty much admit it though, if you paid close attention.

Steph McGovern: why can't you just be nice and let people sit together if there free seats?

Kenny Jacobs: but why should people get something for free when......

He then stopped himself but to me it was clear that he was going to finish with 'people are paying for it'.

I'm sorry, but that an admission of guilt that there is in fact a policy of splitting people up deliberately.

You seem to ignore the fact that airplanes are not busses.. Weight and balance is also a factor when distributing seats.
On a recent trip from Stansted to Cyprus they had to move some people towards the back of the plane because of this
. . also on a fairly short hop on a fairly empty plane to Dublin they had to block off seats at the front for the same reason..

The website makes it perfectly clear that if you dont pay for a reserved seat you will be allocated a seat at random! It could'nt be clearer so don't understand what you are moaning about.

flyingphil wrote:

The website makes it perfectly clear that if you dont pay for a reserved seat you will be allocated a seat at random! It could'nt be clearer so don't understand what you are moaning about.

People are moaning about two issues

1: It clearly isn't random. You will be assigned a middle seat unless there are none left
2: Effectively every other airline that has the same policy of "assigned at random" still seats passengers on the same booking together where possible.

flyingphil wrote:

You seem to ignore the fact that airplanes are not busses.. Weight and balance is also a factor when distributing seats.

That can be a valid excuse in some specific situations, but remember that Ryanair has an average occupation of +95%

Jayafe wrote:

flyingphil wrote:

You seem to ignore the fact that airplanes are not busses.. Weight and balance is also a factor when distributing seats.

That can be a valid excuse in some specific situations, but remember that Ryanair has an average occupation of +95%

Indeed it must be noted that in the interview he said this middle seat issue and people being split up was due to the fact its now peak season and the flights are 100% full. According to one source this seemed to have started on 15/5.

It does create a weird game of chicken, where you now need to check in as late as possible in the hope that all the middle seats are gone and you get a window or aisle.

Oh please if people are too cheap to pay €4 they really need to stop complaining

Dahlgardo wrote:

dean wrote:

When you book tickets to a sport event you get assigned seats because it would be impossible to get tens of thousands of people sited in order. When you buy a contract of carrying you from A to B that does not include an assigned seat (in this case). Some suppliers give you this "perk" but don't think you're not paying for it.

Well, you could be assigned a random seat when you buy a ticket for a sportsgame and then be offered to buy a specific seat at an additional cost if you want to be seated next to your friends. It would be exactly the same nickel and diming as with Ryanair. Or if you want to go to cinema with your girlfriend. You will be offered random seats when you purchase the tickets. Why should the cinema offer you that perk for free?

Fact of the matter is, that it costs an airline the same amount to assign seats randomly or next, or as close, to each other as possible.
Only reason for an airlines to assign seating randomly is to increase income from ancillary fees.

I have difficulty finding words as to how pathetic this new Ryanair policy is.
Now it's considered a perk to be assigned a seat close to the people you are travelling with, be it family, girlfriend or friends when it costs the airline nothing.
Where has common decency gone?

It is sad beyond words.

But you can always count on Ryanair to set the bar at a new record low.

My thoughts exactly.
And Ryanair's unability to clearly admit that they have changed their assignment algorithm only proves they are well aware of how miserable their conduct is.
I won't be moaning about it though. Next time I want to fly I'll simply take another plane, even if I need to pay more to be respected as a customer and not treated as a parcel.

Ryanair have just issued a statement regarding this..
they haven't changed their policy or algorithm..
they say that more and more passengers are paying to reserve seats on their planes .. which means passengers are reserving window and aisle seats.. so as the load factor is normally 95% the only seats left to randomly allocate tend to be middle seats...

The statement is on twitter

flyingphil wrote:

Ryanair have just issued a statement regarding this..
they haven't changed their policy or algorithm..
they say that more and more passengers are paying to reserve seats on their planes .. which means passengers are reserving window and aisle seats.. so as the load factor is normally 95% the only seats left to randomly allocate tend to be middle seats...

The statement is on twitter

Random Allocated Seating

We haven’t changed the random seat allocation policy. The reason for more middle seats being allocated is that more and more passengers are taking our reserved seats (from just €2) and these passengers overwhelmingly prefer aisle and window seats which is why people who choose random (free of charge) seats are more likely to be allocated middle seats.

Some random seat passengers are confused by the appearance of empty seats beside them when they check-in up to four days prior to departure. The reason they can’t have these window or aisle seats is that these are more likely to be selected by reserved seat passengers many of whom only check-in 24 hours prior to departure. Since our current load factor is 95%, we have to keep these window and aisle seats free to facilitate those customers who are willing to pay (from €2) for them.

This is entirely a matter of customer choice. We are not trying to force people to pay for reserved seats. We are very happy to facilitate any customer who wants a free of charge random seat but we are also going to do our best to facilitate customers who are willing to pay for a reserved seat (usually window or aisle) which start from €2.

On BBC Watchdog, a programme aired on Wednesday night, the BBC talked to Dr Jennifer Rodgers from the University of Oxford who helped conduct an experiment where four researchers booked onto four Ryanair flights and were split up each time onto single, separate middle seats throughout the plane. Watchdog said that each time the group was able “to determine from the seating availability charts online that there was plenty of room on the plane for them to be allocated seats together”. But they were not.

The BBC consulted Dr Rodgers who found that the odds of that happening randomly were “astronomical”: “you have a greater chance of winning the lottery”.

http://www.luchtzak.be/airlines/ryanair ... -pressure/

usxguy wrote:

even Spirit & Allegiant in the US won't do this!

G4 has actally been doing exactly this for years.

Galwayman wrote:

Oh please if people are too cheap to pay €4 they really need to stop complaining

That's not the point.

Ryanair wrote:

Random Allocated Seating

We haven’t changed the random seat allocation policy. The reason for more middle seats being allocated is that more and more passengers are taking our reserved seats (from just €2) and these passengers overwhelmingly prefer aisle and window seats which is why people who choose random (free of charge) seats are more likely to be allocated middle seats.

Some random seat passengers are confused by the appearance of empty seats beside them when they check-in up to four days prior to departure. The reason they can’t have these window or aisle seats is that these are more likely to be selected by reserved seat passengers many of whom only check-in 24 hours prior to departure. Since our current load factor is 95%, we have to keep these window and aisle seats free to facilitate those customers who are willing to pay (from €2) for them.

This is entirely a matter of customer choice. We are not trying to force people to pay for reserved seats. We are very happy to facilitate any customer who wants a free of charge random seat but we are also going to do our best to facilitate customers who are willing to pay for a reserved seat (usually window or aisle) which start from €2.

Yes offcourse, how can everyone be that ignorant and think this has something to do with Ryanair trying to make customers pay yet another ancillary fee, when in fact nothing has changed.
Only change is that since mid may, almost all Ryanair customers have all of a sudden started to book seats making it IMPOSSIBLE for Ryanair to place coulpes,
friends or families close together if they haven't booked and payd an extra fee for this.
Any anecdotal evidence where the seat next to the middle seat is empty can only be because of a no-show.

Thank you Ryanair for pointing these obvious facts out.

peterinlisbon wrote:

Time will tell whether they alienate their customers by charging such high fees but I think that it will have a negative impact.

Charging such high fees? €4 or sometimes €2 is a high fee? What would you call a low fee then? In any case it won't have a negative impact, Ryanair is one of the best run airlines out there, they know exactly what they are doing.

SCQ83 wrote:

All this rant for a 4 Euro fee.

In any case I can't see the trauma when a couple or a group of friends are separated for two hours in a plane. With children or someone with a disability OK, but the other cases... you pay 4 euros and that it is.

I just booked a flight and had to pay €14 each, which is €56 for my family of four.

AJCNL wrote:

peterinlisbon wrote:

Time will tell whether they alienate their customers by charging such high fees but I think that it will have a negative impact.

Charging such high fees? €4 or sometimes €2 is a high fee? What would you call a low fee then? In any case it won't have a negative impact, Ryanair is one of the best run airlines out there, they know exactly what they are doing.

2-4 euros is usually the fee for middle seats only, and at the back of the plane. Even when booking the same row in window/aisle, you need to start adding euros one by one or two by two (minimum) to the equation, per passenger.

Less severe escenario: 4e + 6e = 10e (front section would circa 35e, mid section circa 22e) for sitting together with one person. Considering that the average cost of Ryanair tickets in their network is around 41e, no one can see this is as a "proportionate/logic/reasonable" fee, that reflects at any point the cost for the company of the service of assigning a seat. It is attracting the passenger with a cheap fare to rip him off later on.

"On the basis that it charged an average of €41 a-seat in its 2017 financial year, "
Source: https://www.irishtimes.com/business/tra ... -1.3102114

I can't sit 4 of us together and all of be in middle seats. Seats on their own were only €9 in the same section of the plane.

While 4 EUR might not be much people are overlooking the fact that Ryanair seem to be purposefully allocating people into middle seats. To say that this is because all of the aisle and window seats are taken in nonsense. My in-laws on each of 4 recent flights were allocated middle seats appart at check-in despite the seats at that point being over 75% still unallocated. And this never happened before to them or to me. If they want to do this, and business is business, then at least they should admit it and not lie and take their passengers (i.e. the people paying their wages) as idiots.

There's not much difference between their actions and the neds/chavs that offer to "look after" your car in the car park at sporting events. If you chose not to pay them then surprise surprise you find that "someone" has scratched your car or let down your tyres when you return. But then again, maybe that is also "coincidence" since teh car part is "full at this busy time".

Jayafe wrote:

It is attracting the passenger with a cheap fare to rip him off later on.

Haha, no shit Sherlock.
That has been Ryanairs business model for years and years.
They are extremely good at it, and they are refining this all the time.

So now they have even managed to put a (hefty) pricetag on common courtesy and decency by deliberately splitting up people who travel together.
This is just plain greed and it just highlights the ever deteriorating state of the airline industry.
But hey, people still keep supporting this company.

People may say it is "only" €2/4/6 today but don't forget that like many ancillaries, it will keep going up. Give it a year or two and the base fee will likely to be €6/8/10, especially as more people begin to reserve seats.

Ryanair have clearly stated they intend to raise ancillaries to Wizz Air levels (€24 per passenger now). This can mainly come through increased seat and luggage fees.

Dahlgardo wrote:

Jayafe wrote:

But hey, people still keep supporting this company.

Lots of people will blindly continue to fly Ryanair as they are known to be "ultra low cost" and won't even check out the alternatives. While I've flown with them many times and will still do so, I've also in about 50% of cases seen that flying BA, easyJet, KLM or even Lufthansa can be significantly cheaper all-in once everything is included in the price. While they can be extraordinary cheap when there are offers, they are to a large extent living of a reputation.

It reminds me of how people continue to buy coffee from a certain well known, but expensive, coffee shop because they equate the higher price with quality despite it being the same, or even inferiour, coffee beans used comparted to other local options.

I would like to know about the safety impact of seating people apart in case of an evacuation.

Accident investigation in the U.K. clearly identified the risk of seating parents away from children below 12. Does it miraculously change for kids over 12? What about being seated away from an ageing parents A life partner? Or a best friend?

Human instinct probably kicks in and people will look for their travelling companions in an evacuation.

Whatever the ins and outs of it Ryanair just got itself a whole load of free advertising..

Bad publicity? I think they love their bad boy image.

MOL has recently said that the airline will just become an add on to their travel business, they will make all their money from hotels, car hire, ancillary products..

Love them or hate them they have shaken up the airline business and are one of the biggest and more importantly one of the most profitable airlines in Europe.