Australian Aviation Thread - June 2017

Qantas16 · Wed Jun 07, 2017 6:25 am

RoySFlying wrote:
The power-spat in the Middle East may be touching Qantas. Chief executive Gareth Evans is reported to have said. "UAE have banned Qatari nationals from transiting through UAE, so we're looking to see if that affects any passengers." So presumably, a Qatari citizen who was planning to fly SYD-DXB-LHR would not be able to board the aircraft and would have to be offered some other routing.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-07/q ... ai/8597404

Perhaps we will see fewer such complications once the non-stop 787 service commences.

Not sure how many Qatari nationals there are likely to be on these routes given there is only an estimated ~350,000 Qatari's actually in Qatar. Any that are travelling to LHR from Australia (likely very few) , QF will easily be able to reroute via SIN/HKG/BKK and then onto BA or other OW partners. Similarly, QR is a OW partner so surely it can't be that hard for anyone that was travelling Oz-DXB-DOH with QF/EK to be rerouted on a QR service...

EK413 · Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:22 am

With QF moving capacity via PER opposed to DXB surely there's a sweetener in the deal for EK?

Qantas backs Emirates partnership but plans more direct Perth-Europe flights

Qantas is still keen to work with Dubai-based Emirates on routes to Europe, even as it starts to open up more of its own, executives say.

The airline is bypassing popular Emirates' hub Dubai on a new Perth-London flight and has indicated it wants to fly to Paris and Frankfurt from Perth, in another challenge to Emirates.

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/qanta ... wm1jl.html

EK413

ben175 · Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:16 pm

EK413 wrote:
With QF moving capacity via PER opposed to DXB surely there's a sweetener in the deal for EK?

Qantas backs Emirates partnership but plans more direct Perth-Europe flights

Qantas is still keen to work with Dubai-based Emirates on routes to Europe, even as it starts to open up more of its own, executives say.

The airline is bypassing popular Emirates' hub Dubai on a new Perth-London flight and has indicated it wants to fly to Paris and Frankfurt from Perth, in another challenge to Emirates.

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/qanta ... wm1jl.html

EK413

I find it amazing QF sees more potential in a PER-CDG or FRA route than relaunching PER-HKG or even PER-NRT.

log0008 · Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:28 pm

ben175 wrote:
EK413 wrote:
With QF moving capacity via PER opposed to DXB surely there's a sweetener in the deal for EK?

Qantas backs Emirates partnership but plans more direct Perth-Europe flights

Qantas is still keen to work with Dubai-based Emirates on routes to Europe, even as it starts to open up more of its own, executives say.

The airline is bypassing popular Emirates' hub Dubai on a new Perth-London flight and has indicated it wants to fly to Paris and Frankfurt from Perth, in another challenge to Emirates.

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/qanta ... wm1jl.html

EK413

I find it amazing QF sees more potential in a PER-CDG or FRA route than relaunching PER-HKG or even PER-NRT.

It's more about SYD/MEL/BNE-CDG you have to remember. With all the instability in the Middle East at the moment with Qatar having a stop in Australia may become even more popular

Flyingsottsman · Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:57 pm

I wounder if QF would consider naming their dream liners after the AFL and NRL teams and put their emblems on the planes, got to be better than Vegemite.

xiaotung · Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:07 pm

ThunderB wrote:
"Apparently it was John Thomas who flew to Cancun for the IATA AGM and it was John Thomas who signed the Hong Kong Airlines codeshare agreement today. I don't know why John Borghetti is still CEO"

Thomas is General Manager of a division, that is why Borghetti is CEO. The CEO would be the one confirming the agreements.

IATA AGM is a place for CEO gathering, not a meeting for 2ICs. I was just saying Borghetti's days must have been numbered.

EK413 · Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:13 pm

ben175 wrote:
I find it amazing QF sees more potential in a PER-CDG or FRA route than relaunching PER-HKG or even PER-NRT.

Surely both on the radar with QFs focus on Asia & hopefully with A380's launched on the SIN/HKG route will free up A330's.

log0008 wrote:
ben175 wrote:
EK413 wrote:
With QF moving capacity via PER opposed to DXB surely there's a sweetener in the deal for EK?

Qantas backs Emirates partnership but plans more direct Perth-Europe flights

Qantas is still keen to work with Dubai-based Emirates on routes to Europe, even as it starts to open up more of its own, executives say.

The airline is bypassing popular Emirates' hub Dubai on a new Perth-London flight and has indicated it wants to fly to Paris and Frankfurt from Perth, in another challenge to Emirates.

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/qanta ... wm1jl.html

EK413

I find it amazing QF sees more potential in a PER-CDG or FRA route than relaunching PER-HKG or even PER-NRT.

It's more about SYD/MEL/BNE-CDG you have to remember. With all the instability in the Middle East at the moment with Qatar having a stop in Australia may become even more popular

Valid point & the instability certainly will work in QF favour.

Flyingsottsman wrote:
I wounder if QF would consider naming their dream liners after the AFL and NRL teams and put their emblems on the planes, got to be better than Vegemite.

With VA being the offical sponsor of AFL I doubt it.

EK413

ben175 · Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:18 pm

EK413 wrote:
ben175 wrote:
I find it amazing QF sees more potential in a PER-CDG or FRA route than relaunching PER-HKG or even PER-NRT.

Surely both on the radar with QFs focus on Asia & hopefully with A380's launched on the SIN/HKG route will free up A330's.

log0008 wrote:
ben175 wrote:

I find it amazing QF sees more potential in a PER-CDG or FRA route than relaunching PER-HKG or even PER-NRT.

It's more about SYD/MEL/BNE-CDG you have to remember. With all the instability in the Middle East at the moment with Qatar having a stop in Australia may become even more popular

Valid point & the instability certainly will work in QF favour.

EK413

With so much investment in T4, I really hope QF does continue to lift its game internationally from PER. I mean it's crazy to think it was only a few years ago we had no QF flights internationally whatsoever.

My perfect scenario would be daily flights to SIN, LHR, CDG, FRA, HKG and AKL, with 3-4 x weekly services to NRT & JNB and a return on mainline to DPS/CGK.

EK413 · Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:28 pm

ben175 wrote:
EK413 wrote:
ben175 wrote:
I find it amazing QF sees more potential in a PER-CDG or FRA route than relaunching PER-HKG or even PER-NRT.

Surely both on the radar with QFs focus on Asia & hopefully with A380's launched on the SIN/HKG route will free up A330's.

log0008 wrote:

It's more about SYD/MEL/BNE-CDG you have to remember. With all the instability in the Middle East at the moment with Qatar having a stop in Australia may become even more popular

Valid point & the instability certainly will work in QF favour.

EK413

With so much investment in T4, I really hope QF does continue to lift its game internationally from PER. I mean it's crazy to think it was only a few years ago we had no QF flights internationally whatsoever.

My perfect scenario would be daily flights to SIN, LHR, CDG, FRA, HKG and AKL, with 3-4 x weekly services to NRT & JNB and a return on mainline to DPS/CGK.

I hope so too.

AJ has been talking up PER-LHR & hinting of other "potential" routes from PER would be dispointing if QF neglected this new venture. I'd say it won't take long for QF to be convinced the Dream)liner is the right aircraft & top up their Boeing order.

EK413

sq256 · Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:32 pm

ben175 wrote:
a return on mainline to DPS/CGK.

DPS is a beach market with very low yielding demand.

Running QF mainline 737s will likely run into a loss for them considering the PER-DPS market is already saturated with LCCs, and there aren't enough CUBs in suits to make QF mainline service on the PER-DPS viable year-round (let alone seasonal).

Qantas16 · Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:03 pm

Flyingsottsman wrote:
I wounder if QF would consider naming their dream liners after the AFL and NRL teams and put their emblems on the planes, got to be better than Vegemite.

This is the most repulsive idea I've heard yet. Would 1000x prefer "Vegemite" over "South Sydney Rabbitohs".

Qantas16 · Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:05 pm

sq256 wrote:
ben175 wrote:
a return on mainline to DPS/CGK.

DPS is a beach market with very low yielding demand.

Running QF mainline 737s will likely run into a loss for them considering the PER-DPS market is already saturated with LCCs, and there aren't enough CUBs in suits to make QF mainline service on the PER-DPS viable year-round (let alone seasonal).

Whilst QF seems to be able to make SYD-DPS work on mainline, they have less competition on this route and a much larger FF base. I would guess that this is a prime Frequent Flier point redemption route...

log0008 · Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:22 pm

Qantas16 wrote:
sq256 wrote:
ben175 wrote:
a return on mainline to DPS/CGK.

DPS is a beach market with very low yielding demand.

Running QF mainline 737s will likely run into a loss for them considering the PER-DPS market is already saturated with LCCs, and there aren't enough CUBs in suits to make QF mainline service on the PER-DPS viable year-round (let alone seasonal).

Whilst QF seems to be able to make SYD-DPS work on mainline, they have less competition on this route and a much larger FF base. I would guess that this is a prime Frequent Flier point redemption route...

There has been some suggestion that QF is looking at mainline on MEL-DPS later this year.

Obzerva · Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:00 pm

Qantas16 wrote:
Flyingsottsman wrote:
I wounder if QF would consider naming their dream liners after the AFL and NRL teams and put their emblems on the planes, got to be better than Vegemite.

This is the most repulsive idea I've heard yet. Would 1000x prefer "Vegemite" over "South Sydney Rabbitohs".

Agree, an aircraft regularly plying PER-LHR with the name of a sporting team from the other side of the country for a football code that Perth has proven to have marginal interest in sounds like an awful marketing strategy. Qantas have done well with their marketing especially considering what is going to be an average flight experience for those in economy.

MooLor · Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:39 am

Qantas16 wrote:
Flyingsottsman wrote:
I wounder if QF would consider naming their dream liners after the AFL and NRL teams and put their emblems on the planes, got to be better than Vegemite.

This is the most repulsive idea I've heard yet. Would 1000x prefer "Vegemite" over "South Sydney Rabbitohs".

... and a picture of a decapitated bunny below the name. :lol:

But yeah, public displays of tribe-membership (PDTm?) are not a thing in the areas of the country I am familiar with. Victoria might be the exception.

Qantas16 · Thu Jun 08, 2017 6:07 am

MooLor wrote:
Qantas16 wrote:
Flyingsottsman wrote:
I wounder if QF would consider naming their dream liners after the AFL and NRL teams and put their emblems on the planes, got to be better than Vegemite.

This is the most repulsive idea I've heard yet. Would 1000x prefer "Vegemite" over "South Sydney Rabbitohs".

... and a picture of a decapitated bunny below the name.

But yeah, public displays of tribe-membership (PDTm?) are not a thing in the areas of the country I am familiar with. Victoria might be the exception.

It would make sense if they were at least Australia's national sporting teams (e.g. Wallabies, Socceroos). Only have to look at what the Brisbane Lord Mayor has done to our previously-great CityCat fleet to know it's a bad idea :yuck:

I realise the proposal wasn't for livery, but just to highlight how tacky sports-themed names and liveries are

An767 · Thu Jun 08, 2017 6:12 am

Flyingsottsman wrote:
I wounder if QF would consider naming their dream liners after the AFL and NRL teams and put their emblems on the planes, got to be better than Vegemite.

Why is it people on here are fixated with names and schemes for the 787. Fair enough name them after Places , famous Australians etc. But just paint them in the Logo that is current , no Dreamtime paint jobs or Vegemite !! or any thing else that looks tacky. After all they advertise the world over showing the Big Red Roo on the tail lets leave it at that .

AN767

mariner · Thu Jun 08, 2017 6:38 am

An767 wrote:
Why is it people on here are fixated with names and schemes for the 787. Fair enough name them after Places , famous Australians etc. But just paint them in the Logo that is current , no Dreamtime paint jobs or Vegemite !! or any thing else that looks tacky. After all they advertise the world over showing the Big Red Roo on the tail lets leave it at that .

AN767

I can't think what more anyone needs.

mariner

qf789 · Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:41 am

During May and June 2018 QF will reduce MEL-LAX from 13 weekly to 12 weekly

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... y-changes/

qf789 · Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:43 am

QF to fly 717 between MEL, SYD and BNE on weekends from early August

https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-to-fly- ... e-brisbane

Qantas16 · Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:55 am

qf789 wrote:
QF to fly 717 between MEL, SYD and BNE on weekends from early August

https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-to-fly- ... e-brisbane

Makes sense to use smaller aircraft at times of weaker demand but maintain frequency... my question is where does the 717 capacity come from? We have seen quite an explosion of 717 routes in the last 18months but how many aircraft have QF added? Or are these mainly coming across from WA with weaker demand there?

DeltaB717 · Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:56 am

qf789 wrote:
QF to fly 717 between MEL, SYD and BNE on weekends from early August

https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-to-fly- ... e-brisbane

About time!

qf2220 · Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:35 am

Qantas16 wrote:
RoySFlying wrote:
The power-spat in the Middle East may be touching Qantas. Chief executive Gareth Evans is reported to have said. "UAE have banned Qatari nationals from transiting through UAE, so we're looking to see if that affects any passengers." So presumably, a Qatari citizen who was planning to fly SYD-DXB-LHR would not be able to board the aircraft and would have to be offered some other routing.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-07/q ... ai/8597404

Perhaps we will see fewer such complications once the non-stop 787 service commences.

Not sure how many Qatari nationals there are likely to be on these routes given there is only an estimated ~350,000 Qatari's actually in Qatar. Any that are travelling to LHR from Australia (likely very few) , QF will easily be able to reroute via SIN/HKG/BKK and then onto BA or other OW partners. Similarly, QR is a OW partner so surely it can't be that hard for anyone that was travelling Oz-DXB-DOH with QF/EK to be rerouted on a QR service...

And I would imagine the Qataris probably would, for the large part, be flying QR anyway.

qf002 · Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:44 am

Qantas16 wrote:
my question is where does the 717 capacity come from?

Plenty of slack on the weekends.

ben175 · Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:39 am

VH-OEF is doing a few SYD-MEL-SYD runs today, anyone know why?

zkncj · Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:01 am

ben175 wrote:
VH-OEF is doing a few SYD-MEL-SYD runs today, anyone know why?

Public hoilday weekend?

qf789 · Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:33 am

QF plans to keep DXB hub even with non-stop SYD-LHR

Article also mentions QF have not ruled out operating SYD-LHR via PER at some stage

Mentions the usual non-stops to FRA & FCO with 787's and JFK and ORD with 778's or A359ULR's, also mentions BOS as a non-stop which I find a bit odd

https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-to-keep ... ney-london

EK413 · Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:49 am

qf789 wrote:
QF plans to keep DXB hub even with non-stop SYD-LHR

Article also mentions QF have not ruled out operating SYD-LHR via PER at some stage

Mentions the usual non-stops to FRA & FCO with 787's and JFK and ORD with 778's or A359ULR's, also mentions BOS as a non-stop which I find a bit odd

https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-to-keep ... ney-london

I understand Charlotte, Chicago O'Hare, Miami, Philadelphia, Phoenix, Washington Reagan National but Boston?

EK413

smi0006 · Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:49 am

Qantas16 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
QF to fly 717 between MEL, SYD and BNE on weekends from early August

https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-to-fly- ... e-brisbane

Makes sense to use smaller aircraft at times of weaker demand but maintain frequency... my question is where does the 717 capacity come from? We have seen quite an explosion of 717 routes in the last 18months but how many aircraft have QF added? Or are these mainly coming across from WA with weaker demand there?

I wonder if we will see these transfer from WA and be reconfigured to two class? Even increase the weekday services out of ADL/CBR could be good. LST and MQL could do with a small capacity increase. Certainly gives QF some cheap flexibility compared to VA. Maintaining semi constant frequency.

Not many operators left, wouldn't surprise me if they snap up a few more, for parts even?

a320fan · Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:55 am

Kind of surprised there is no pressure from the QF pilot group to have a scope clause of sorts, especially with the increased east cost flying the 717 has been doing in recent years. Even if not mainline they could be operated by one if the wholly owned Qlink carriers such as sunstate or network.

VirginFlyer · Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:07 am

EK413 wrote:
I understand ... Washington Reagan National ...

The perimeter restrictions at DCA along with the 2185m longest runway means this won't happen. Perhaps you are thinking of Washington Dulles?

V/F

EK413 · Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:28 am

VirginFlyer wrote:
EK413 wrote:
I understand ... Washington Reagan National ...

The perimeter restrictions at DCA along with the 2185m longest runway means this won't happen. Perhaps you are thinking of Washington Dulles?

V/F

I was thinking more down the lines of AA major hubs and Washington Reagan is one. However in saying that probably challenging due the runway restrictions.

EK413

smi0006 · Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:31 am

zkncj wrote:
ben175 wrote:
VH-OEF is doing a few SYD-MEL-SYD runs today, anyone know why?

Public hoilday weekend?

Soccer? Isn't Argentina and Brazil in Melbourne this weekend, then Australia play - few friendlies. Again highlights QFs flexibility.

qf789 · Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:29 am

QF expects LHR lounge to open September/October now

https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-london- ... er/october

xiaotung · Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:02 pm

smi0006 wrote:
zkncj wrote:
ben175 wrote:
VH-OEF is doing a few SYD-MEL-SYD runs today, anyone know why?

Public hoilday weekend?

Soccer? Isn't Argentina and Brazil in Melbourne this weekend, then Australia play - few friendlies. Again highlights QFs flexibility.

Most likely. MCG packed nearly 100,000 people today and it again demonstrates Melbourne's tie to South America.

log0008 · Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:14 pm

xiaotung wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
zkncj wrote:

Public hoilday weekend?

Soccer? Isn't Argentina and Brazil in Melbourne this weekend, then Australia play - few friendlies. Again highlights QFs flexibility.

Most likely. MCG packed nearly 100,000 people today and it again demonstrates Melbourne's tie to South America.

Soccer plus long weekend. Fantastic to see a massive game in Melbourne, kinda disappointed LATAM didn't use it as an opportunity to promote their new Melbourne service starting later this year.

777LRF · Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:06 pm

Under what sort of contract do NZ fly SYD-RAR? Cook Islands is a different country altogether (although the Queen is the head of state) It's an interesting route as it begins as NZ61 in AKL and goes AKL-RAR-SYD then back as NZ60

a320fan · Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:51 pm

ben175 wrote:
VH-OEF is doing a few SYD-MEL-SYD runs today, anyone know why?

Wish I new about this in advance. Would love to get a sector on a 747. Hard to find these days so I'm starting to doubt if I will ever fly on one.

ZK-NBT · Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:56 pm

777LRF wrote:
Under what sort of contract do NZ fly SYD-RAR? Cook Islands is a different country altogether (although the Queen is the head of state) It's an interesting route as it begins as NZ61 in AKL and goes AKL-RAR-SYD then back as NZ60

Pretty sure with open skies NZ can fly anywhere from Australia?

As to what NZ fly it it's to get more Australians to the Cook Islands and subsidised by the Cook Islands government.

RyanairGuru · Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:07 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
777LRF wrote:
Under what sort of contract do NZ fly SYD-RAR? Cook Islands is a different country altogether (although the Queen is the head of state) It's an interesting route as it begins as NZ61 in AKL and goes AKL-RAR-SYD then back as NZ60

Pretty sure with open skies NZ can fly anywhere from Australia?

So long as the third country authorises it.

What do you mean about "contract"? There is no contract for this route, NZ fly it because they believe that there is a profitable market to tap into. If you are asking about air service rights and how they are able to operate this route then you have already answered you own question, the flight starts and ends in AKL with RAR as an intermediate point so totally permitted under the open skies agreement. That nobody is going to fly SYD-RAR-AKL is not relevant.

mariner · Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:12 pm

777LRF wrote:
Under what sort of contract do NZ fly SYD-RAR? Cook Islands is a different country altogether (although the Queen is the head of state) It's an interesting route as it begins as NZ61 in AKL and goes AKL-RAR-SYD then back as NZ60

Well, not quite "altogether" different.

The Cook Islands are part of the Realm of New Zealand, and Cook Islanders are NZ citizens:

https://www.mfat.govt.nz/en/countries-a ... k-islands/

"Our relationship with the Cook Islands
New Zealand and the Cook Islands share a close and unique relationship. The Cook Islands became a New Zealand colony in 1901 but after a push for self-determination in the 1960s it became self-governing in ‘free association’ with New Zealand in 1965. This means it administers its own affairs but that Cook Islanders are New Zealand citizens who are free to live and work here. More than 60,000 Cook Island Māori live in New Zealand.

The Cook Islands has its own education system, yet secondary students sit New Zealand qualifications. We also share the same currency – the New Zealand dollar. New Zealand has responsibility for Cook Islands' defence (if called on) and some aspects of their foreign affairs."

I believe that an aspect of "foreign affairs" handled by NZ includes foreign aviation rights.

mariner

smi0006 · Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:40 pm

log0008 wrote:
xiaotung wrote:
smi0006 wrote:

Soccer? Isn't Argentina and Brazil in Melbourne this weekend, then Australia play - few friendlies. Again highlights QFs flexibility.

Most likely. MCG packed nearly 100,000 people today and it again demonstrates Melbourne's tie to South America.

Soccer plus long weekend. Fantastic to see a massive game in Melbourne, kinda disappointed LATAM didn't use it as an opportunity to promote their new Melbourne service starting later this year.

Agreed - LATAM haven't done much noticeably advertising here; would have been expensive but what a great audience to advertise to? Perhaps how're are issues as no Chilean team were playing and all rights had been bought. Still for a service starting so soon, that could stir up some public discussion a few billboard and pop up events in the city wouldn't hurt. LATAM is a new brand to Victoria they need as much recognition as they can get.

MooLor · Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:54 pm

a320fan wrote:
ben175 wrote:
VH-OEF is doing a few SYD-MEL-SYD runs today, anyone know why?

Wish I new about this in advance. Would love to get a sector on a 747. Hard to find these days so I'm starting to doubt if I will ever fly on one.

TG are still flying 744s 11 x weekly BKK - SYD if it's just the metal you want and not the points as well. They have a promo going at the moment for flights in early 2018 too - $732 return on their website. (I wonder is this in anticipation of EK's SYD-BKK-DXB A380 departing earlier once they've dropped the AKL tag. The current 01.00 EK BKK arrival is a bit of a shocker.)

I did a trip on TG's 744 a couple of years ago - "old school" Y. Seats are wide and the pitch is generous, seatback IFE is decent. I'd take that over a 10-abreast 777 or 9-abreast 787 any day.

They are supposed to be phasing out their 747s from 2018 though, so we may not see them much longer. But we'll still have the QF 744 for a while yet, and the (seasonal?) KE 748.

zkncj · Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:09 pm

qf789 wrote:
QF plans to keep DXB hub even with non-stop SYD-LHR

Article also mentions QF have not ruled out operating SYD-LHR via PER at some stage

Mentions the usual non-stops to FRA & FCO with 787's and JFK and ORD with 778's or A359ULR's, also mentions BOS as a non-stop which I find a bit odd

https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-to-keep ... ney-london

Really wonder how well PER-FRA would do? what QF have decent onward connections from FRA?

If anything would think NZ would do better on AKL-PER-FRA then linking into LH's network from there.

ZK-NBT · Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:41 pm

zkncj wrote:
qf789 wrote:
QF plans to keep DXB hub even with non-stop SYD-LHR

Article also mentions QF have not ruled out operating SYD-LHR via PER at some stage

Mentions the usual non-stops to FRA & FCO with 787's and JFK and ORD with 778's or A359ULR's, also mentions BOS as a non-stop which I find a bit odd

https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-to-keep ... ney-london

Really wonder how well PER-FRA would do? what QF have decent onward connections from FRA?

If anything would think NZ would do better on AKL-PER-FRA then linking into LH's network from there.

Remember it's not really about PER-FRA as such and there will be connecting flights from the East coast, its a way of opening more destinations for QF from PER rather than going via DXB.

QF had very good loads reportedly on the daily 744 to FRA via SIN but it was an expensive operation which didn't make money, I'm not sure if it ever made money or not.

NZ won't go back to FRA and if they ever did I'm not sure they would go through PER, more likely LAX again imo, but I don't no.

waoz1 · Sat Jun 10, 2017 1:48 am

zkncj wrote:
qf789 wrote:
QF plans to keep DXB hub even with non-stop SYD-LHR

Article also mentions QF have not ruled out operating SYD-LHR via PER at some stage

Mentions the usual non-stops to FRA & FCO with 787's and JFK and ORD with 778's or A359ULR's, also mentions BOS as a non-stop which I find a bit odd

https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-to-keep ... ney-london

Really wonder how well PER-FRA would do? what QF have decent onward connections from FRA?

If anything would think NZ would do better on AKL-PER-FRA then linking into LH's network from there.

I do wonder with Air NZ opening a lounge in Perth if there isnt something on the horizon for them.

EK413 · Sat Jun 10, 2017 1:54 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
zkncj wrote:
qf789 wrote:
QF plans to keep DXB hub even with non-stop SYD-LHR

Article also mentions QF have not ruled out operating SYD-LHR via PER at some stage

Mentions the usual non-stops to FRA & FCO with 787's and JFK and ORD with 778's or A359ULR's, also mentions BOS as a non-stop which I find a bit odd

https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-to-keep ... ney-london

Really wonder how well PER-FRA would do? what QF have decent onward connections from FRA?

If anything would think NZ would do better on AKL-PER-FRA then linking into LH's network from there.

Remember it's not really about PER-FRA as such and there will be connecting flights from the East coast, its a way of opening more destinations for QF from PER rather than going via DXB.

QF had very good loads reportedly on the daily 744 to FRA via SIN but it was an expensive operation which didn't make money, I'm not sure if it ever made money or not.

NZ won't go back to FRA and if they ever did I'm not sure they would go through PER, more likely LAX again imo, but I don't no.

So essentially it's about QF establishing PER as a West Coast hub to serve Europe & UK non stop funnelling pax from ADL,CBR, (potentially HBA), DRW, CNS whilst SYD,MEL,BNE will eventually have their own non-stop services once a ULH aircraft which meets the needs join the fleet from 2022-24.

EK413

zkncj · Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:27 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
Remember it's not really about PER-FRA as such and there will be connecting flights from the East coast, its a way of opening more destinations for QF from PER rather than going via DXB.

QF had very good loads reportedly on the daily 744 to FRA via SIN but it was an expensive operation which didn't make money, I'm not sure if it ever made money or not.

NZ won't go back to FRA and if they ever did I'm not sure they would go through PER, more likely LAX again imo, but I don't no.

With NZ building an lounge in PER it could signal they are interested in future growth ex-PER. If the CHC flight was timed correctly that could also allow more traffic to connect to the service, and of course there is nothing to stop NZ running its own feeder flights from the East Coast although unlikely it is possible.

Other wise maybe LH could operate the PER-FRA sector?

ZK-NBT · Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:40 am

NZ have said repeatedly they have a 'pacific rim' focus meaning no more one stop flights. They are investing in all their Australian ports with new lounges etc, and an even bigger focus on long haul connecting traffic ex Australia to North and South America.

I havn't been able to find their recent q&a presentation from the investor day, someone asked about LHR and was told the slots had been sold, that's the old HKG-LHR slots. I can't see anywhere else in Europe being served and with QF taking PER non stops to various cities NZ won't bother competing directly, just not worth it imo.

DavidByrne · Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:29 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
NZ have said repeatedly they have a 'pacific rim' focus meaning no more one stop flights.

Yes, but a Pacific rim "focus" doesn't mean that they won't look elsewhere if the opportunities present themselves. In the past, A-Netters have tended to take these statements much more literally than the airline intended, some arguing that IAH and EZE were not Pacific Rim, therefore implying that the strategy was dead or that the airline was being deceptive in its public statements. I think we need to take the airline's statements as a reflection of current general thinking and capable of shades of interpretation, rather than a hard and fast rule that is to be interpreted literally and applied rigidly.

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