JJ replaced their A332 fleet with 763s that came from LATAM Chile, and now LATAM Chile is replacing all their 763s with 788s, will JJ follow this pattern soon? Many of the JJ 763s are quite new, so I don´t know if they are planning a replacement very soon

No. The 763s will be there for a long long time.

It would be the logical replacement down the line. I wish they had kept the A330s and ordered the NEOs though.

The 788 might make an appearance in the distant future but in the short term the answer is a resounding no. Those 763s being replaced at LATAM Chile are moving over to JJ, including some very new examples. They are actually quite nice birds with updated interiors, I was on one from Sao Paulo to Manuas a couple of weeks ago and it was a pleasant flight.

One of those frames is old, but the rest have line numbers in the 900s and 1000s. Didn't LAN change some of that order to Dreamliners? Many of the LATAM Brasil 763s haven't even reached their first D check yet (being between 3-5 years old).

LATAM's intent is to keep their main Chile arm with the latest technology and send to LATAM Brazil the 1980's technology. Those 767s will fly from Brazil to Europe/USA until the 2040's.

incitatus wrote:

LATAM's intent is to keep their main Chile arm with the latest technology and send to LATAM Brazil the 1980's technology. Those 767s will fly from Brazil to Europe/USA until the 2040's.

I think the A350s and 77W are fairly new.

Off topic, but I have to say it.
JJ became a crap of an airline since it was bought by LA. Used to be my first choice always, but not anymore. Even the FIDELIDADE program was destroyed. So sad.

oksman wrote:

Off topic, but I have to say it.
JJ became a crap of an airline since it was bought by LA. Used to be my first choice always, but not anymore. Even the FIDELIDADE program was destroyed. So sad.

I have to agree! Getting worse every day

aemoreira1981 wrote:

One of those frames is old, but the rest have line numbers in the 900s and 1000s. Didn't LAN change some of that order to Dreamliners? Many of the LATAM Brasil 763s haven't even reached their first D check yet (being between 3-5 years old).

...and to add - more comfortable passenger seating. A 2-3-2 seating arrangement, on a newer 763 is more comfortable than a 3-3-3 on a 787.

Rajahdhani wrote:

aemoreira1981 wrote:

One of those frames is old, but the rest have line numbers in the 900s and 1000s. Didn't LAN change some of that order to Dreamliners? Many of the LATAM Brasil 763s haven't even reached their first D check yet (being between 3-5 years old).

...and to add - more comfortable passenger seating. A 2-3-2 seating arrangement, on a newer 763 is more comfortable than a 3-3-3 on a 787.

I flew those 767 in both C and Y last year. Really nice ride.

gatibosgru wrote:

I think the A350s and 77W are fairly new.

Where is Latam sending the 77Ws to? JFK, MIA, and what else? From GRU only? Was F Class removed already? I think they were also due to receive some updates in the form of changes to the upholstery of the seats and new fully horizontal J-class seats.

Latam was a bit erratic/hesitant regarding the delivered A359s. They were leased on a short-term basis to QR, weren't they? I believe at least one has been re-added to the Latam fleet? Does Latam intend to keep them? Will they get more? Where are they flying to? Are they only going to fly from GRU? I remember they were intended for MCO and MAD, but not sure what the current plan is.

EddieDude wrote:

gatibosgru wrote:

I think the A350s and 77W are fairly new.

Where is Latam sending the 77Ws to? JFK, MIA, and what else? From GRU only? Was F Class removed already? I think they were also due to receive some updates in the form of changes to the upholstery of the seats and new fully horizontal J-class seats.

Latam was a bit erratic/hesitant regarding the delivered A359s. They were leased on a short-term basis to QR, weren't they? I believe at least one has been re-added to the Latam fleet? Does Latam intend to keep them? Will they get more? Where are they flying to? Are they only going to fly from GRU? I remember they were intended for MCO and MAD, but not sure what the current plan is.

The 77W are going to JFK, MIA, FRA, CDG and LHR. I think that in CDG they alternate between 77W and 350. They might go to MCO in high season.

They do not have first class anymore.

2 359 will come back from QR later this year. 2 next year. The 350 are in MAD and CDG at this point.

I might be wrong in 1-2 answers but is pretty much what is going on. About the all other questions you have to ask the Cueto family in Chile. I do believe that they don't have a clue also in what they are doing or planing to do.

SJPBR wrote:

oksman wrote:

Off topic, but I have to say it.
JJ became a crap of an airline since it was bought by LA. Used to be my first choice always, but not anymore. Even the FIDELIDADE program was destroyed. So sad.

I have to agree! Getting worse every day

Why do you say that? Can you develop your ideas, what is wrong with JJ nowadays?

LPSHobby wrote:

SJPBR wrote:

oksman wrote:

Off topic, but I have to say it.
JJ became a crap of an airline since it was bought by LA. Used to be my first choice always, but not anymore. Even the FIDELIDADE program was destroyed. So sad.

I have to agree! Getting worse every day

Why do you say that? Can you develop your ideas, what is wrong with JJ nowadays?

The route system is terrible (varies a lot during the week), it has tons of cancellations everyday, the in flight service is one of the worst in the world for a supposed to be full service airline, their catering is bad in international flights, they C class is terrible, they change equipments all the time, they lack consistence in the service by flight attendants and airport service, the Fidelidade is getting worse every year... Well, I think that this is it. I probably forgot something, but you got the idea.

gatibosgru wrote:

I think the A350s and 77W are fairly new.

The 77Ws are being returned starting next year.

As already someone mentioned, some A350s are being leased to Qatar.

Both the 77W and the A350 orders happened before Lan bought TAM. One could say Lan is destroying the long-haul fleet of TAM.

I much more would have liked to see TAM bought by an European or US carrier than by Lan. Decisions taken in a little town like Santiago will always be detrimental to the network in Sao Paulo.

incitatus wrote:

gatibosgru wrote:

I think the A350s and 77W are fairly new.

The 77Ws are being returned starting next year.

As already someone mentioned, some A350s are being leased to Qatar.

Both the 77W and the A350 orders happened before Lan bought TAM. One could say Lan is destroying the long-haul fleet of TAM.

I much more would have liked to see TAM bought by an European or US carrier than by Lan. Decisions taken in a little town like Santiago will always be detrimental to the network in Sao Paulo.

TAM was a basket case before LAN got its hands on it. One in fact could argue that it had been so since the untimely death of Comandante Rolim.

LAN acquired TAM, no matter how it was spun back then. This was not a merger of equals. The Chileans call the shots here. No need to belittle them or their capital city, which btw, is not a little town, but rather an awesome city & country that punches above its weight. We could all learn something from them. Get over it.

LPSHobby wrote:

JJ replaced their A332 fleet with 763s that came from LATAM Chile, and now LATAM Chile is replacing all their 763s with 788s, will JJ follow this pattern soon? Many of the JJ 763s are quite new, so I don´t know if they are planning a replacement very soon

Not trying to play moderator here, but I just noticed you asked the same exact question a month ago. Seriously, do you think you will get the answer you want to hear if you ask the question often? Not to mention that both threads (this month's and last month's) end up becoming a "we hate LATAM Chile" venom fest. Come on....

See: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1360329

JJ tried and surely managed to offer a great customer experience before being acquired by LA. That's a fact.
Right now it is just an average airline with an average product and average customer service. Just like LAN is and always will be. They do not manage to be on the forefront of anything. Just to do basics. Which is shame, really. But it is what it is. At least it is not Aerolineas Argentinas lol.
One thing that really bothers me is how they copycat what the US airlines do. In a clearly "Monkey see, monkey do" situation. Lack of personality, anyone? They only thing I used to love about LA was their livery which was really beautiful and very chilean. Yeap.. they scrapped that too and created something which could belong in any LCLF airline, probably from Asia/China.

There were a rumor that Qatar would purchase JJ from LA. From a customer perspective, this would probably be really good.


Just to be clear here. I don't want to spread venon on Latan Chile and hurt some people feelings. I think LA is a good very average airline. Just that. Not standout whatsoever.

TAM took some LAN 767 that were fairly new, as LAN got 787 their 767 became surplus. The A330 were probably at the end of their leases so it was easier to keep the 767's. The 767 are also cheaper to operate

SJPBR wrote:

I flew those 767 in both C and Y last year. Really nice ride.

...and where is the trip report!!!!!!? Haha, just kidding, I know that you're probably busy. How was the trip, though?

I second your sentiement though. I would rather be 'stuck' on a 767, than an an A350, 787, or 777 with tighter (or the same, 32" pitch) and less passengers as neighbors/vecinos.

geoshina wrote:

JJ tried and surely managed to offer a great customer experience before being acquired by LA. That's a fact.

That in my recollection, was when Cdte Rolim was still in charge. Very soon after his death the airline quickly fell into mediocrity. There was nothing remarkable about TAM for quite some time, before LAN's arrival. In my experience, TAM cabin crews have always been quite bleh, like they rather be someplace else.

geoshina wrote:

Right now it is just an average airline with an average product and average customer service. Just like LAN is and always will be. They do not manage to be on the forefront of anything. Just to do basics. Which is shame, really. But it is what it is. At least it is not Aerolineas Argentinas lol.

LAN built a powerhouse world-class airline from very small beginnings. They are the force behind LATAM. If that for you is to do the basics, then I suggest you revisit the meaning of basics.

And careful with that childish remark about AR. Operationally speaking, AR has always been a world class run airline. Tell me how many people died on TAM's planes from 1996-2007 and then lets compare to AR - over five decades.

geoshina wrote:

Just to be clear here. I don't want to spread venon on Latan Chile and hurt some people feelings. I think LA is a good very average airline. Just that. Not standout whatsoever.

The only feelings hurt here seem to be those of certain Brazilians that still can't reconcile with the fact that their largest airline is in Chilean hands now.

dcajet wrote:

(...)

TAM was a basket case before LAN got its hands on it. One in fact could argue that it had been so since the untimely death of Comandante Rolim.

LAN acquired TAM, no matter how it was spun back then. This was not a merger of equals. The Chileans call the shots here. No need to belittle them or their capital city, which btw, is not a little town, but rather an awesome city & country that punches above its weight. We could all learn something from them. Get over it.

Santiago is as big and interesting as Curitiba. Awesome? Depends on who you ask. Not in the same a league as Sao Paulo, Buenos Aires or Rio. Or even Bogota!

It might have been the only way out for TAM, but not a good one.

dcajet wrote:

The only feelings hurt here seem to be those of certain Brazilians that still can't reconcile with the fact that their largest airline is in Chilean hands now.

Corporations from all over the world own businesses in other countries. The question that relates to this thread is whether Lan is a good owner for TAM. It is not. If you want to argue otherwise, how about creating quality reasoning?

incitatus wrote:

dcajet wrote:

The only feelings hurt here seem to be those of certain Brazilians that still can't reconcile with the fact that their largest airline is in Chilean hands now.

Corporations from all over the world own businesses in other countries. The question that relates to this thread is whether Lan is a good owner for TAM. It is not. If you want to argue otherwise, how about creating quality reasoning?

Actually, the question relating to this thread is about replacing one Boeing model with another. It was you who turned it into LAN not being up to snuff. It is not me who needs to reason, LAN acquired TAM, TAM is history, welcome LATAM. Some may like that, some may not. It's OK. Lets move on.

Rds,

dcajet wrote:

incitatus wrote:

dcajet wrote:

The only feelings hurt here seem to be those of certain Brazilians that still can't reconcile with the fact that their largest airline is in Chilean hands now.

Corporations from all over the world own businesses in other countries. The question that relates to this thread is whether Lan is a good owner for TAM. It is not. If you want to argue otherwise, how about creating quality reasoning?

Actually, the question relating to this thread is about replacing one Boeing model with another. It was you who turned it into LAN not being up to snuff. It is not me who needs to reason, LAN acquired TAM, TAM is history, welcome LATAM. Some may like that, some may not. It's OK. Lets move on.

Rds,

That's the problem. LATAM is not welcomed. LATAM put's TAM legacy down. I do understand that LAN has o long history, long tradition, etc.. But the service is below what we had here before. The bottomline is that under Cueto's administration laTAM is erratic and problematic. And the question about Boeing model replacement is directly related to administration and since we know that the cueto's administration is clueless about the Brazilian market (that is MUCH BIGGER than anything that the had before) any plan about fleet replacement is only valid up to next conference call between SP and Santiago.

The Cueto's bite was much bigger than what they can swallow.

Long time reader, 1st time poster, frequent JJ flyer.

The LA-JJ marriage always seemed to be a strange one, at least for me. Two very different companies with very different fleets and philosophies. The process was never easy and there were always tensions between Santiago and São Paulo. But it was clear from the beginning that LA would be calling the shots and that the "JJ way to fly and serve" was gone.

While I understand the rationale for some of the decisions LATAM, including the ones regarding the 787s and the 767s (LA definitely needs them more right now), I do think LATAM is taking the brazilian market for granted with its unambitious approach and that's a HUGE mistake. While Brasil is still recovering from a big economic crisis, the worst has probably passed by now and those who position themselves well for the next years are poised to make big gains. Azul and Avianca Brasil already offer a much better service than JJ and both are showing way more ambition than LATAM. Soon they could become a real threat to JJ not only on the short haul, but also on the long haul. G3, meanwhile, is a very tough rival already on the short haul market. Brazil is not a small country with a stable, dominated market like Chile. Brazil is a volatile market and tons of potential about to be uncovered and LATAM will be risking its highest potential market if it continues to neglect it on its long term strategy.

The first of the recently retired 763ER from the LATAM Chile fleet was delivered to LATAM Brasil after repainting @ MEX. It is PT-MOD, ex CC-BDD, which was withdrawn from service at SCL on April 10th and was delivered to LATAM Brasil on May 5th. It is a 2012-built frame. It is LATAM BR's 15th 767. More on the way.

LPSHobby wrote:

JJ replaced their A332 fleet with 763s that came from LATAM Chile, and now LATAM Chile is replacing all their 763s with 788s, will JJ follow this pattern soon? Many of the JJ 763s are quite new, so I don´t know if they are planning a replacement very soon

All LATAM BR's 767 are from 2012 but PT-MOG. They will be on air for LATAM for at least more 13 years.

I remember a long time ago, they have retired all their older A330 and instead replacing them with younger 763's.

incitatus wrote:

dcajet wrote:

(...)

TAM was a basket case before LAN got its hands on it. One in fact could argue that it had been so since the untimely death of Comandante Rolim.

LAN acquired TAM, no matter how it was spun back then. This was not a merger of equals. The Chileans call the shots here. No need to belittle them or their capital city, which btw, is not a little town, but rather an awesome city & country that punches above its weight. We could all learn something from them. Get over it.

Santiago is as big and interesting as Curitiba. Awesome? Depends on who you ask. Not in the same a league as Sao Paulo, Buenos Aires or Rio. Or even Bogota!

It might have been the only way out for TAM, but not a good one.

For the record, Curitiba's population is 1.88 Million, Santiago's is 7.31 million (both 2015 numbers)...and I've been fortunate to travel to Santiago several times the last couple of years, I've had a great time on every visit...including the skiing I got in back in August.

SQ789 wrote:

I remember a long time ago, they have retired all their older A330 and instead replacing them with younger 763's.

Those 763s are among the newest passenger models. All newer ones afterward went to airlines in the CIS.

tarheelwings wrote:

For the record, Curitiba's population is 1.88 Million,

You should not compare apples with oranges. The record should reflect that Curitiba metro has a population of 3.5 million.