Recently I've been interested in Janet airlines, the famous airline from KLAS that flies a fleet of 737s to Area 51 and other secret military bases. This got me thinking, is there any other airline like this? Or aircraft? every government around the world has secret bases etc.

Thanks in advance.

Don't know any current ones, but previous airlines that were contracted by the gov for secret operations included Air America (of course!), Southern Air Transport, Evergreen Intl. and probably more.

Western Global Airlines is another. They had an incident a few years ago in Zimbabwe with a bloodstained MD-11. They share an owner with Centurion.

aemoreira1981 wrote:

Western Global Airlines is another. They had an incident a few years ago in Zimbabwe with a bloodstained MD-11. They share an owner with Centurion.

Not sure what that had to do with secretive government flying? I've operated plenty of money charters, none of which were secret government operations. We were loaded on the civilian cargo ramp by normal ramp personnel.

Flyer732 wrote:

aemoreira1981 wrote:

Western Global Airlines is another. They had an incident a few years ago in Zimbabwe with a bloodstained MD-11. They share an owner with Centurion.

Not sure what that had to do with secretive government flying? I've operated plenty of money charters, none of which were secret government operations. We were loaded on the civilian cargo ramp by normal ramp personnel.

A dead body had been stashed in the cargo hold, likely

aemoreira1981 wrote:

Western Global Airlines is another. They had an incident a few years ago in Zimbabwe with a bloodstained MD-11. They share an owner with Centurion.

Jim and Sunny Neff are the owners of Western Global and they have nothing to do with the 36th Street dumpster fire known as Centurion which is owned by Alliance Managment Center.

Samrnpage wrote:

Recently I've been interested in Janet airlines, the famous airline from KLAS that flies a fleet of 737s to Area 51 and other secret military bases. This got me thinking, is there any other airline like this? Or aircraft? every government around the world has secret bases etc.

Thanks in advance.

Area 51 was created by the inventors of the U2. I consider it ironic that that the inventors of an ultra-long range surveillance aircraft decided the best way to hide what they were doing was to move to a far away desert -- I guess they didn't have that much faith in ultra-long range surveillance aircraft after all!

These days with satellites there's not much reason to have to fly people out to a far way desert at great expense. This is why I think those other governments will not have their own Janets.

Most of the espionage these days comes via computer hacking. If you don't believe me, spend some time going through the Snowden material. NSA had all kinds of ways to penetrate computer networks, and you can be sure other countries do too. Most of what an enemy would want to learn from Area 51 exists as digital information on a computer. It's far more effective to steal that data than to try to gather your own by observation.

aemoreira1981 wrote:

A dead body had been stashed in the cargo hold, likely

A stowaway from Africa. It happens from time to time.

Samrnpage wrote:

Recently I've been interested in Janet airlines, the famous airline from KLAS that flies a fleet of 737s to Area 51 and other secret military bases. This got me thinking, is there any other airline like this? Or aircraft? every government around the world has secret bases etc.

Thanks in advance.

"Janet" is the callsign for AECOM (formerly EG&G Services/URS Corp.). There are several other commercial operators (not 121) that are government contractors. No scheduled operations, though.

RetiredWeasel wrote:

Don't know any current ones, but previous airlines that were contracted by the gov for secret operations included Air America (of course!), Southern Air Transport, Evergreen Intl. and probably more.

The company I worked for, provided commercial airline booking services to Evergreen International in McMinnville Oregon. The pilots had very good stories, they talked about the 727 they had based at IND & about some of the destinations they would end up at.

We flew EZ commercially in Aug 1980 on DC-8-50 service PDX-OGG-PDX. This was long before any carriers were doing outer island services directly from the mainland, it was awesome.

Cheers for all the responses! I guess there isnt another "airline" like Janet

Here is a link to some older story about some of those clandestine air services:
http://www.iansa.org/system/files/IPIS_ ... Report.pdf

Private chartered corporate aircraft played a big role in the transportation of accused terrorists to secret prisons in the years after 9/11. One of the companies that had a contract also had a mysterious crash in Mexico that the pilots ran away from. The airplane had been loaded full of cocaine.

Revelation wrote:

Samrnpage wrote:

Recently I've been interested in Janet airlines, the famous airline from KLAS that flies a fleet of 737s to Area 51 and other secret military bases. This got me thinking, is there any other airline like this? Or aircraft? every government around the world has secret bases etc.

Thanks in advance.

Area 51 was created by the inventors of the U2. I consider it ironic that that the inventors of an ultra-long range surveillance aircraft decided the best way to hide what they were doing was to move to a far away desert -- I guess they didn't have that much faith in ultra-long range surveillance aircraft after all!

These days with satellites there's not much reason to have to fly people out to a far way desert at great expense. This is why I think those other governments will not have their own Janets.

Most of the espionage these days comes via computer hacking. If you don't believe me, spend some time going through the Snowden material. NSA had all kinds of ways to penetrate computer networks, and you can be sure other countries do too. Most of what an enemy would want to learn from Area 51 exists as digital information on a computer. It's far more effective to steal that data than to try to gather your own by observation.

The operations done in the large expanse of Area51 are still secret weapons testing and drone operations. Engineers, scientists, and drone pilots get to live in Las Vegas and fly out for their shifts.

Well while some here might think that places like Area 51 are on decline now that we have so many other resources to use, they might be surprised a the very robust activity that continues to this very hour out there in the high desert. Continued expansion of the facility would indicate that work continues unabated regarding top secret weapon development along recon technology.

The Janet terminal at KLAS is very busy with comings and goings of the 737 fleets. In addition there are several 757's that have a mission all of their own. The are N registered but may be flown by NY ANG?? I know that when I asked about them nobody wanted to join in the conversation.

The drone flying is done out of Creech AFB ( former Indian Springs) just a little north of LAS. Don't think you will see that kind of activity at Area 51 for the most part.

Samrnpage wrote:

Cheers for all the responses! I guess there isnt another "airline" like Janet

It is a rumour that the first CIA operators to land in Afghanistan came in on a C-130 (L-100) operated by either Lynden Air Cargo or another small operator I am blanking on.

They may have other contracts operating I think they are also in Asia and PNG operating contracts to supply bases.

Here is something about those 757s:
http://www.newyorkupstate.com/central-n ... ne_at.html

Found more info about the L-100. Tepper Aviation, and also other government contracted routes.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/05/02/th ... the-globe/

Noshow wrote:

Here is something about those 757s:
http://www.newyorkupstate.com/central-n ... ne_at.html

Thanks for the info. It had been awhile since I was involved with this discussion and I thought they were N registered. I'm not so sure about the aux tanks as I use to fly a tanked 757 and because of SFAR88 we pretty much where all those aircraft were. I believe these are just former airline 757's and Boeing built C32's?

BravoOne wrote:

Noshow wrote:

Here is something about those 757s:
http://www.newyorkupstate.com/central-n ... ne_at.html

Thanks for the info. It had been awhile since I was involved with this discussion and I thought they were N registered. I'm not so sure about the aux tanks as I use to fly a tanked 757 and because of SFAR88 we pretty much where all those aircraft were. I believe these are just former airline 757's and Boeing built C32's?

I read somewhere that I cannot find currently that they used to or still do, fit an aircraft like that with an N registration for sensitive missions.

b747400erf wrote:

Found more info about the L-100. Tepper Aviation, and also other government contracted routes.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/05/02/th ... the-globe/

Mostly fluff and nothing new to see here. I'm sitting next to a former Evergreen "employee" and while there was a time they were quite active in government contract work, that was a long time ago when they first took over Marana Air Park down near Tucson, AZ. The facility was a former CIA aviation training facility and continued with certain projects for may years there after.

I would say that EL-AL does operate some Janet-like operations on some of its dedicated all white aircraft. Or at least did so in the past. South African Airways during Apartheid era also did so.

AR385 wrote:

I would say that EL-AL does operate some Janet-like operations on some of its dedicated all white aircraft. Or at least did so in the past. South African Airways during Apartheid era also did so.

sun d'or flying on the Sabbath you mean?
Or El Al cargo and their plain freighters?
I bet your comparison to apartheid isn't a coincidence...

BravoOne wrote:

b747400erf wrote:

Found more info about the L-100. Tepper Aviation, and also other government contracted routes.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/05/02/th ... the-globe/

Mostly fluff and nothing new to see here. I'm sitting next to a former Evergreen "employee" and while there was a time they were quite active in government contract work, that was a long time ago when they first took over Marana Air Park down near Tucson, AZ. The facility was a former CIA aviation training facility and continued with certain projects for may years there after.

It just outlined all the government contracts various airlines have. Nothing about super secret alien transportation and ... oh no I've said too much...

Many years ago during the war in Afghanistan, I always heard rumors that Vision Airlines was involved in some shady US Gov operations with their twin 767-200s. These aircraft were not identifiable as being Vision on a first look, and even the registration was painted in such a way it was hardly readable. Could all be a load of bogus of course but I can see why those rumors started with aircraft like that!



Martijn

b747400erf wrote:

BravoOne wrote:

Noshow wrote:

Here is something about those 757s:
http://www.newyorkupstate.com/central-n ... ne_at.html

Thanks for the info. It had been awhile since I was involved with this discussion and I thought they were N registered. I'm not so sure about the aux tanks as I use to fly a tanked 757 and because of SFAR88 we pretty much where all those aircraft were. I believe these are just former airline 757's and Boeing built C32's?

I read somewhere that I cannot find currently that they used to or still do, fit an aircraft like that with an N registration for sensitive missions.

The 757 in the article is military, although it previously flew with different N numbers with contractors. There are a couple of 757s operated by COMCO that interchange between N numbers and military serials. There is an operator called Razor Six Aviation that has two ex-AA 757s.

CrimsonNL wrote:

Many years ago during the war in Afghanistan, I always heard rumors that Vision Airlines was involved in some shady US Gov operations with their twin 767-200s. These aircraft were not identifiable as being Vision on a first look, and even the registration was painted in such a way it was hardly readable. Could all be a load of bogus of course but I can see why those rumors started with aircraft like that!

Martijn

That contract went to North American, and is now operated by Omni Air (the Omni airplanes you can't track on Flightaware!).

I know a guy at the VNY airport that was operating a 727-051 on a few "rendition flights" back around 2005, 2008 time period. Not much call for those anymore.

As far as an airline being similiar to the Janet operation, in 1982 I was fortunate in being flown out to Tonapah Test Airfield from Nellis to pick up an F-4 that had diverted there. I can't remember the airline (twin turboprop) that flew me there, but upon landing I did notice an Evergreen Intl DC-9 (?) that was on the ramp. At that time, I remember them coming into George AFB also and was told that they had a 'Logair' contract where they flew aircraft parts needed at various USAF bases.

Now that doesn't sound too secret, but Tonapah was very sensitve at that time because that's where the USAF 'Red Air' was based. The Mig 19s, 21s and 23s. So I assume those Evergreen crews were told to zip their lips on whatever they saw at that base.

LOGAIR was a civilian operated freight operation for the USAF. QUICKTRANS was the US Navy equivalent. I briefly flew for Flying Tigers and we flew a lot of Quicktrans out of both USAF and USN airfields. Evergreen may have had a contract to move "personnel" in and of Tonapah while the F117 was still under wraps. If you go to Google Earth and look at the airfield at Tonapah and then move about 10 or 15 miles to the NE you can see the base housing for this operation with tennis courts and a swimming pool. I believe that all the remaining F117's are stored at TNP.

BravoOne wrote:

LOGAIR was a civilian operated freight operation for the USAF. QUICKTRANS was the US Navy equivalent. I briefly flew for Flying Tigers and we flew a lot of Quicktrans out of both USAF and USN airfields. Evergreen may have had a contract to move "personnel" in and of Tonapah while the F117 was still under wraps. If you go to Google Earth and look at the airfield at Tonapah and then move about 10 or 15 miles to the NE you can see the base housing for this operation with tennis courts and a swimming pool. I believe that all the remaining F117's are stored at TNP.

Yup. When I went there in early '82 I don't think the F-117s were operating out of Tonapah yet. The first production aircraft was delivered in '82 and I think maybe the test and eval squadron was still at Groom Lake, but I'm not sure. But we (me and the WSO) certainly weren't given any freedom to wander around there. We knew about the MIGs of course, but we were promptly escorted to the F-4, kicked the tires, lit the fires and were out of there in less than an hour.

Yea I flew with a USN, Top Gun guy that flew almost all the MIGs that we had acquired by the early to mid eighties. The guy had a Golden career and was Team Capt of the Blues (A4) for two seasons as well.

I don't know if this is supposed to be strictly government. But Shared Services BP/Connoco run their own airline up in the state of Alaska moving employees around on 737s. Which in my opinion is very similar to what Janet does.

aemoreira1981 wrote:

Flyer732 wrote:

aemoreira1981 wrote:

Western Global Airlines is another. They had an incident a few years ago in Zimbabwe with a bloodstained MD-11. They share an owner with Centurion.

Not sure what that had to do with secretive government flying? I've operated plenty of money charters, none of which were secret government operations. We were loaded on the civilian cargo ramp by normal ramp personnel.

A dead body had been stashed in the cargo hold, likely

It wasn't in the cargo compartment, and it was likely a stowaway off of a previous flight from Africa. Having worked that contract, on the MD11, I can assure you that we had a few attempts at this as well.

32andBelow wrote:

I don't know if this is supposed to be strictly government. But Shared Services BP/Connoco run their own airline up in the state of Alaska moving employees around on 737s. Which in my opinion is very similar to what Janet does.

That's not terribly uncommon. A lot of companies run shuttle services between their locations. Intel runs an ERJ shuttle from KIWA up to their HQ in Oregon every day, for example.

BravoOne wrote:

I believe that all the remaining F117's are stored at TNP.

Correct. The F117 requires special climate controlled hangars, which were originally built specifically for them at TNP. Rumor has it, there's still a few left flying and you'll occasionally see them flying around the Nellis complex.

Another US gov't set of charter ops:
https://www.ice.gov/factsheets/ice-air-operations

32andBelow wrote:

I don't know if this is supposed to be strictly government. But Shared Services BP/Connoco run their own airline up in the state of Alaska moving employees around on 737s. Which in my opinion is very similar to what Janet does.

Yes that is true and ARAMCO operates a number of in house Boeings but....you don't need a Top Secret Clearance to get onboard nor do they keep the window shades down.

777PHX wrote:

32andBelow wrote:

I don't know if this is supposed to be strictly government. But Shared Services BP/Connoco run their own airline up in the state of Alaska moving employees around on 737s. Which in my opinion is very similar to what Janet does.

That's not terribly uncommon. A lot of companies run shuttle services between their locations. Intel runs an ERJ shuttle from KIWA up to their HQ in Oregon every day, for example.

BravoOne wrote:

I believe that all the remaining F117's are stored at TNP.

Correct. The F117 requires special climate controlled hangars, which were originally built specifically for them at TNP. Rumor has it, there's still a few left flying and you'll occasionally see them flying around the Nellis complex.

I assume you mean the Nellis Range and not the AFB. The AFB traffic is easily spotted.

Sierra Pacific Airlines based out of of TUS. Their code is SI. They do some government work and imho should order some c-series! They'd be a perfect fit!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sierra_Pacific_Airlines
https://www.planespotters.net/airline/S ... c-Airlines

BravoOne wrote:

I assume you mean the Nellis Range and not the AFB. The AFB traffic is easily spotted.

Clearly, that's why I said "complex" and not "Nellis AFB". The complex encompasses a lot more than just Nellis.

Southern Air Transport moved men and material to/from/within Central American hot spots during the 1980s. I heard (can't confirm so this is rumor) that Arrow Air did allot of covert stuff before the Gander tragedy.

One more. The Department of Energy operates or operated a F27 on a daily run between Livernore California (Lawrence Livermore Radiation Lab) and the Nevada Test sight. Not sure if this is still being done. Another tragic DOE operation was a Citation ll operated on behalf of WAPA, aka Western Region Power Authority that crashed in Billings, MT after being caught in the wake turn of a UPS 757, killing 10 or 12 people.