clrd4t8koff
Topic Author
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DL6077 7pm BOS-LGA last night (May 18th)

Fri May 19, 2017 8:09 pm

Flight was 3-hours delayed BOS-LGA, no weather in BOS or NYC at the time. The flight before at 6pm left early and the 8pm was 1-hour delayed. Anyone with factual info know why 6077 was 3-hours delayed?
 
drdisque
Posts: 357
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Re: DL6077 7pm BOS-LGA last night (May 18th)

Fri May 19, 2017 9:10 pm

Since the inbound aircraft arrived from BOS at about 6:30 on schedule, I would have to say it's almost definitely mechanical.
 
umass1
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Re: DL6077 7pm BOS-LGA last night (May 18th)

Fri May 19, 2017 9:21 pm

I believe LGA had GDP's yesterday due to winds. Most LGA flights from BOS to LGA last night were late for that reason. (AA B6 DL)
 
MO11
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Re: DL6077 7pm BOS-LGA last night (May 18th)

Fri May 19, 2017 9:27 pm

drdisque wrote:
Since the inbound aircraft arrived from BOS at about 6:30 on schedule, I would have to say it's almost definitely mechanical.


Almost definitely.

There was an EDCT program to LGA due to departure restrictions (due to nearby storms) which limited the number of departures. In addition, the was a ground stop for DL/DL* flights for over an hour.
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: DL6077 7pm BOS-LGA last night (May 18th)

Sat May 20, 2017 12:32 am

All the evening DL BOS-LGA flights tonight are delayed as well, yet there's no weather in BOS or NYC this evening/tonight. What gives?
 
MesaFlyGuy
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Re: DL6077 7pm BOS-LGA last night (May 18th)

Sat May 20, 2017 12:48 am

According to flightaware, LaGuardia is experiencing:

departure delays of 1 hours 1 minutes to 1 hours 15 minutes (and increasing) due to weather
inbound flights delayed at their origin an average of 1 hours 47 minutes due to thunderstorms

Apparently there's some kind of weather system affecting LGA tonight.
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
clrd4t8koff
Topic Author
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Re: DL6077 7pm BOS-LGA last night (May 18th)

Sat May 20, 2017 1:02 am

MesaFlyGuy wrote:
According to flightaware, LaGuardia is experiencing:

departure delays of 1 hours 1 minutes to 1 hours 15 minutes (and increasing) due to weather
inbound flights delayed at their origin an average of 1 hours 47 minutes due to thunderstorms

Apparently there's some kind of weather system affecting LGA tonight.


But look at weather.com. What weather do you see in the area?
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: DL6077 7pm BOS-LGA last night (May 18th)

Sat May 20, 2017 1:15 am

Just boarded the 8pm (delayed until 9:30). Pilot was at the door greeting passengers and admitted it's not weather, rather the inability to handle the traffic. But of course it's easier for airlines just to blame it on weather.

This brings up a much bigger argument - why are airlines allowed to schedule more flights than LGA is able to handle. This isn't restricted to tonight's delay. Regularly I read posts about flights landing and waiting 1-2 hours to get a gate and/or take off at LGA. How is this legal?
 
SFOATLFlyer
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Re: DL6077 7pm BOS-LGA last night (May 18th)

Sat May 20, 2017 1:22 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:
Just boarded the 8pm (delayed until 9:30). Pilot was at the door greeting passengers and admitted it's not weather, rather the inability to handle the traffic. But of course it's easier for airlines just to blame it on weather.

This brings up a much bigger argument - why are airlines allowed to schedule more flights than LGA is able to handle. This isn't restricted to tonight's delay. Regularly I read posts about flights landing and waiting 1-2 hours to get a gate and/or take off at LGA. How is this legal?


I have a hard time believing a pilot is telling people it's a scheduling issue. As of 20:20 CDT I see a pretty sizeable storm cell over Ocean Beach on Long Island moving northeastward.
 
TigerFlyer
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Re: DL6077 7pm BOS-LGA last night (May 18th)

Sat May 20, 2017 1:29 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:
Just boarded the 8pm (delayed until 9:30). Pilot was at the door greeting passengers and admitted it's not weather, rather the inability to handle the traffic. But of course it's easier for airlines just to blame it on weather.

This brings up a much bigger argument - why are airlines allowed to schedule more flights than LGA is able to handle. This isn't restricted to tonight's delay. Regularly I read posts about flights landing and waiting 1-2 hours to get a gate and/or take off at LGA. How is this legal?


LGA is slot restricted to reasonable levels set by FAA. While still congested, it delivers reasonable service quality and maximizes passenger throughput when conditions are good. DL is the largest operator and is very proactive and responsible in thinning the schedule during adverse conditions, i.e. Bad weather. If There's an ATC problem, you just have to cope as best you can.
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: DL6077 7pm BOS-LGA last night (May 18th)

Sat May 20, 2017 1:39 am

SFOATLFlyer wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
Just boarded the 8pm (delayed until 9:30). Pilot was at the door greeting passengers and admitted it's not weather, rather the inability to handle the traffic. But of course it's easier for airlines just to blame it on weather.

This brings up a much bigger argument - why are airlines allowed to schedule more flights than LGA is able to handle. This isn't restricted to tonight's delay. Regularly I read posts about flights landing and waiting 1-2 hours to get a gate and/or take off at LGA. How is this legal?


I have a hard time believing a pilot is telling people it's a scheduling issue. As of 20:20 CDT I see a pretty sizeable storm cell over Ocean Beach on Long Island moving northeastward.


Huh? There's nothing near LGA

(I'd post the screenshot from weather.com but can't figure out how from an iPhone)
 
SFOATLFlyer
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Re: DL6077 7pm BOS-LGA last night (May 18th)

Sat May 20, 2017 1:47 am

I didn't say near LGA. Its broken up anyway. I still don't believe a captain standing at the door telling pax there are backups. I've sat hours on aircraft with no obvious reason, and yes the captain may come on and announce an ATC delay. Doing it at the door? Nope.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: DL6077 7pm BOS-LGA last night (May 18th)

Sat May 20, 2017 2:30 am

High winds particularly after 6PM tonight. I've had this issue with BOS-LGA many times. Ground stops at LGA lasting about 30-40 minutes, with an eye to slowing traffic inbound.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: DL6077 7pm BOS-LGA last night (May 18th)

Sat May 20, 2017 2:40 am

This is why most really frequent travelers on the route take Amtrak Acela. The only reason the shuttles still operate is accella sells out so much there is plenty of market for the airlines.

I think the biggest issue is congestion, it doesn't take much of anything to make LGA have huge delays.
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: DL6077 7pm BOS-LGA last night (May 18th)

Sat May 20, 2017 2:41 am

SFOATLFlyer wrote:
I didn't say near LGA. Its broken up anyway. I still don't believe a captain standing at the door telling pax there are backups. I've sat hours on aircraft with no obvious reason, and yes the captain may come on and announce an ATC delay. Doing it at the door? Nope.


You can think whatever you want. You weren't on the flight. I was. Why would I need to come on here and lie?

For the record - at no point did he say his employer - DL - was at fault. He said LGA couldn't handle the volume.
 
Mir
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Re: DL6077 7pm BOS-LGA last night (May 18th)

Sat May 20, 2017 3:09 am

There is taxiway construction currently going on at the east end of the airport (associated with utilities for the new terminal) that creates backups very quickly in certain runway configurations and can make access to and from the Delta ramps very difficult. Expect to see delays like this on a pretty regular basis until that part of the project is complete later this summer.
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
MesaFlyGuy
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Re: DL6077 7pm BOS-LGA last night (May 18th)

Sat May 20, 2017 3:15 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:
MesaFlyGuy wrote:
According to flightaware, LaGuardia is experiencing:

departure delays of 1 hours 1 minutes to 1 hours 15 minutes (and increasing) due to weather
inbound flights delayed at their origin an average of 1 hours 47 minutes due to thunderstorms

Apparently there's some kind of weather system affecting LGA tonight.


But look at weather.com. What weather do you see in the area?


All I said was that flightaware indicated weather in the area. And with my personal experience flying out of LGA countless times, even weather that isn't directly over the airport can and will impact LGA significantly.
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
MO11
Posts: 221
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Re: DL6077 7pm BOS-LGA last night (May 18th)

Sat May 20, 2017 3:22 am

Mir wrote:
There is taxiway construction currently going on at the east end of the airport (associated with utilities for the new terminal) that creates backups very quickly in certain runway configurations and can make access to and from the Delta ramps very difficult. Expect to see delays like this on a pretty regular basis until that part of the project is complete later this summer.


Hence the Delta-only ground stop Thursday night.
 
MO11
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Re: DL6077 7pm BOS-LGA last night (May 18th)

Sat May 20, 2017 3:40 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:
SFOATLFlyer wrote:
I didn't say near LGA. Its broken up anyway. I still don't believe a captain standing at the door telling pax there are backups. I've sat hours on aircraft with no obvious reason, and yes the captain may come on and announce an ATC delay. Doing it at the door? Nope.


You can think whatever you want. You weren't on the flight. I was. Why would I need to come on here and lie?

For the record - at no point did he say his employer - DL - was at fault. He said LGA couldn't handle the volume.


Another EDCT program tonight...weather was just north of the airport.

Although LGA is slot controlled, if an airline runs late, the assigned slots go out the window, so things can get jacked up.

With the EDCT program instituted just after 6pm, the arrival rate was restricted to 38; even with that, the average delay was going to be 107 minutes, maximum 781. Must have been a lot of earlier delays.
 
clrd4t8koff
Topic Author
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Re: DL6077 7pm BOS-LGA last night (May 18th)

Sat May 20, 2017 3:55 am

MO11 wrote:
Mir wrote:
There is taxiway construction currently going on at the east end of the airport (associated with utilities for the new terminal) that creates backups very quickly in certain runway configurations and can make access to and from the Delta ramps very difficult. Expect to see delays like this on a pretty regular basis until that part of the project is complete later this summer.


Hence the Delta-only ground stop Thursday night.


Why is DL so impacted on Thursday?
 
rbavfan
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Re: DL6077 7pm BOS-LGA last night (May 18th)

Sat May 20, 2017 4:16 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:
SFOATLFlyer wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
Just boarded the 8pm (delayed until 9:30). Pilot was at the door greeting passengers and admitted it's not weather, rather the inability to handle the traffic. But of course it's easier for airlines just to blame it on weather.

This brings up a much bigger argument - why are airlines allowed to schedule more flights than LGA is able to handle. This isn't restricted to tonight's delay. Regularly I read posts about flights landing and waiting 1-2 hours to get a gate and/or take off at LGA. How is this legal?


I have a hard time believing a pilot is telling people it's a scheduling issue. As of 20:20 CDT I see a pretty sizeable storm cell over Ocean Beach on Long Island moving northeastward.


Huh? There's nothing near LGA

(I'd post the screenshot from weather.com but can't figure out how from an iPhone)


Weather .com is not always current & just because storm is approaching, even from a distance, they will cut or delay flights per FAA. You can see a sorm 80 miles away and what caused it is a block up the street and your next. Visible clouds are not the real indicator of problems. Have you ever seen it hail on a clear day? That hail might have traveled miles due to winds before hotting your car and denting it.
 
MO11
Posts: 221
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Re: DL6077 7pm BOS-LGA last night (May 18th)

Sat May 20, 2017 1:40 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
MO11 wrote:
Mir wrote:
There is taxiway construction currently going on at the east end of the airport (associated with utilities for the new terminal) that creates backups very quickly in certain runway configurations and can make access to and from the Delta ramps very difficult. Expect to see delays like this on a pretty regular basis until that part of the project is complete later this summer.


Hence the Delta-only ground stop Thursday night.


Why is DL so impacted on Thursday?


Gates were full due to taxiway congestion from departure delays and above construction.
 
b747400erf
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Re: DL6077 7pm BOS-LGA last night (May 18th)

Sat May 20, 2017 2:23 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
SFOATLFlyer wrote:
I didn't say near LGA. Its broken up anyway. I still don't believe a captain standing at the door telling pax there are backups. I've sat hours on aircraft with no obvious reason, and yes the captain may come on and announce an ATC delay. Doing it at the door? Nope.


You can think whatever you want. You weren't on the flight. I was. Why would I need to come on here and lie?

For the record - at no point did he say his employer - DL - was at fault. He said LGA couldn't handle the volume.


There does not have to be weather right at the airport to hurt operations. You can have storm cells on an arrival or departure and heavily congested NY descends into chaos and delays.
 
leoben
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Re: DL6077 7pm BOS-LGA last night (May 18th)

Sat May 20, 2017 3:31 pm

At LGA, "weather" may be more confusing and less obvious than at almost any other airport.

The complexity of the NYC/NE Megapolis airspace is so limiting that weather "far away" can have a dramatic effect. There are, for all practical purposes, only 3 arrival routes. Storms/showers as far away as Richmond, Pittsburg or Albany can shut down arrivals. Departures can be completely stopped for weather over/near the Center departure fixes well over the horizon. The ability to refile for a new roundabout route rather than the usual relatively efficient flightplan (assuming enough fuel onboard), or in some cases going TEC can help a little bit -and this is when a proactive/experienced crew/dispatch team can make a difference. But, it can be clear and calm in NYC and grind to a halt because of weather. ATL/DFW/ORD/etc all have this to a lesser extent, but none of them are in the same league as NYC/LGA.

Also, the local airspace is a furr-ball, so wind/visibility can make a mess of routing requirements. The fact that LGA is sandwiched inbetween JFK/EWR/TEB/HPN/FRG (+ MMU/BDR/ISP/TTN/WRI/etc + MIL ops, + TFRs, etc) makes runway/approach/arrival configurations very complicated. JFK/EWR especially have a direct and constant impact on how LGA is taking off/landing and the resulting arrival/departure rates. It is not a coincidence that in the hundreds of times I've operated at LGA, I've only landed on 13 twice and departed 22 once.

Add the terminal/ramp/taxiway situation, and you've got the cherry on top for gridlock potential. If it makes you feel better to rail at the greedy airlines, go ahead. But LGA and NYC in general, is and probably always will be controlled choas. Customers want to fly out of LGA, airlines provide the capacity that customers want and do their best to overcome the challenges that ensue. There will always be mistakes made, and there will always be ways that things can be done better - but it is what it is. If you fly in or out of LGA, it is unpredictable on the best days and a disaster on the worst, so having a plan B/C/D/etc. and getting your zen on is the key...
 
clrd4t8koff
Topic Author
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Re: DL6077 7pm BOS-LGA last night (May 18th)

Sat May 20, 2017 8:12 pm

Finally someone with an honest answer that corresponds with what the pilot said. I don't get all these a.nutters who are just as bad as the airlines and insist it's weather.

The fact of the matter is that the airlines schedule WAY more flights than can be reasonably accommodated and it's the passengers who have to suffer the multiple hour delays.

MO11 wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
MO11 wrote:

Hence the Delta-only ground stop Thursday night.


Why is DL so impacted on Thursday?


Gates were full due to taxiway congestion from departure delays and above construction.
 
Mir
Posts: 19358
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

Re: DL6077 7pm BOS-LGA last night (May 18th)

Sun May 21, 2017 3:58 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:
Finally someone with an honest answer that corresponds with what the pilot said. I don't get all these a.nutters who are just as bad as the airlines and insist it's weather.

The fact of the matter is that the airlines schedule WAY more flights than can be reasonably accommodated and it's the passengers who have to suffer the multiple hour delays.


Except it really is weather. The reason the construction matters is because of the runway configuration, and that is weather-dependent. And you can't predict that when you're building the schedules several months prior.
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Flyer732
Posts: 1344
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Re: DL6077 7pm BOS-LGA last night (May 18th)

Sun May 21, 2017 5:08 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:
Finally someone with an honest answer that corresponds with what the pilot said. I don't get all these a.nutters who are just as bad as the airlines and insist it's weather.

The fact of the matter is that the airlines schedule WAY more flights than can be reasonably accommodated and it's the passengers who have to suffer the multiple hour delays.

MO11 wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:

Why is DL so impacted on Thursday?


Gates were full due to taxiway congestion from departure delays and above construction.


The fact of the matter is, weather can mean more than just storms. Weather is also wind, and if wind impacts traffic flow, it will create a ground delay program and voila, your flight is delayed due to weather. It's not a conspiracy.

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