flymco753
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DL CRJ's this summer...

Wed May 17, 2017 9:13 pm

I was going over the DL flight schedules for Friday July 21 and it seems like there are a ton of CRJ's loaded, it seems like there's more CRJ's than what the company actually owns. What do you think?
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PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: DL CRJ's this summer...

Wed May 17, 2017 9:21 pm

125 CRJ-200s at 4-6 flights per day, means there could easily be 500-750 CRJ-200 flights per day across the network.
 
SESGDL
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Re: DL CRJ's this summer...

Wed May 17, 2017 9:32 pm

flymco753 wrote:
I was going over the DL flight schedules for Friday July 21 and it seems like there are a ton of CRJ's loaded, it seems like there's more CRJ's than what the company actually owns. What do you think?


Is this just going off what you perceived when looking at schedules? Do you have anything to compare this to?

Thanks,
Jeremy
 
deltairlines
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Re: DL CRJ's this summer...

Wed May 17, 2017 9:40 pm

920 CRJ-100/200 ops that day for Delta. It's been hovering at that level for a while on weekdays.
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: DL CRJ's this summer...

Wed May 17, 2017 9:57 pm

deltairlines wrote:
920 CRJ-100/200 ops that day for Delta. It's been hovering at that level for a while on weekdays.


What happened to reducing CRJ ops. Wasn't there a big deal made about this by DL?
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: DL CRJ's this summer...

Wed May 17, 2017 10:17 pm

50-seat RJs ops are way down from what they were 5 years ago. DTW alone in 2011/2012 had close to 280 departures alone (560 departures & arrivals alone)

For Summer 2012 there were 1,025 CRJ & ERJ flights from the hubs for over 2,050 ops/day. This doesn't even account of the non-hub flying
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=539641

ATL
CRJ: 260

DTW
ER4: 16
CRJ: 262

MSP
CRJ: 156

SLC
CRJ: 72

LGA
ER4: 56
CRJ: 7

JFK
ER4: 4
CRJ: 42


MEM
ER4: 3
CRJ: 83

CVG
CRJ: 64
 
klm617
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Re: DL CRJ's this summer...

Wed May 17, 2017 10:45 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
50-seat RJs ops are way down from what they were 5 years ago. DTW alone in 2011/2012 had close to 280 departures alone (560 departures & arrivals alone)

For Summer 2012 there were 1,025 CRJ & ERJ flights from the hubs for over 2,050 ops/day. This doesn't even account of the non-hub flying
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=539641

ATL
CRJ: 260

DTW
ER4: 16
CRJ: 262

MSP
CRJ: 156

SLC
CRJ: 72

LGA
ER4: 56
CRJ: 7

JFK
ER4: 4
CRJ: 42


MEM
ER4: 3
CRJ: 83

CVG
CRJ: 64



What are the current CRJ numbers at DTW and I would venture to say as a whole all departures are down at Detroit so it goes without saying the
CRJ departures would be reduced. Plus a lot of the discontinued markets from Detroit were served by CRJs.
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MO11
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Re: DL CRJ's this summer...

Wed May 17, 2017 10:46 pm

First quarter report says 150 CRJs as of 3/31/17, compared with 135 Q1 2016.
 
MSPNWA
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Re: DL CRJ's this summer...

Wed May 17, 2017 10:53 pm

flymco753 wrote:
I was going over the DL flight schedules for Friday July 21 and it seems like there are a ton of CRJ's loaded, it seems like there's more CRJ's than what the company actually owns. What do you think?


Are you including CR7/9 in that observation? If you are, I can see why you see it that way. DL has made a large effort to reduce CR2 flying, but CR7 and CR9 operations have been increasing over the years. All three models combined contribute a large chunk of the DL operations at MSP, DTW, LGA/JFK, and CVG. If your searches include one of those hubs, you will find a lot of CRJs.
 
FSDan
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Re: DL CRJ's this summer...

Wed May 17, 2017 11:15 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
deltairlines wrote:
920 CRJ-100/200 ops that day for Delta. It's been hovering at that level for a while on weekdays.


What happened to reducing CRJ ops. Wasn't there a big deal made about this by DL?


They have been massively reduced. Number of CR2 departures by hub/focus city (over 70 departures) for 7/13/2017:
DTW: 130
ATL: 115
MSP: 101
SLC: 53
JFK: 20
CVG: 18
LGA: 17
RDU: 7
LAX: 0
SEA: 0
BOS: 0
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FSDan
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Re: DL CRJ's this summer...

Wed May 17, 2017 11:17 pm

MO11 wrote:
First quarter report says 150 CRJs as of 3/31/17, compared with 135 Q1 2016.


DL retired their ERJ-145s in that period and backfilled the capacity with some more CRJ-200s. DL (and AA and UA, for that matter) is not increasing 50-seat flying overall.
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cvgComair
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Re: DL CRJ's this summer...

Thu May 18, 2017 12:15 am

FSDan wrote:
MO11 wrote:
First quarter report says 150 CRJs as of 3/31/17, compared with 135 Q1 2016.


DL retired their ERJ-145s in that period and backfilled the capacity with some more CRJ-200s. DL (and AA and UA, for that matter) is not increasing 50-seat flying overall.


I saw somewhere that DL was increasing CRJ-200 flying at ATL by bringing some CRJ-200's back in service from the desert while fuel is cheap.
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DiamondFlyer
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Re: DL CRJ's this summer...

Thu May 18, 2017 12:36 am

cvgComair wrote:
FSDan wrote:
MO11 wrote:
First quarter report says 150 CRJs as of 3/31/17, compared with 135 Q1 2016.


DL retired their ERJ-145s in that period and backfilled the capacity with some more CRJ-200s. DL (and AA and UA, for that matter) is not increasing 50-seat flying overall.


I saw somewhere that DL was increasing CRJ-200 flying at ATL by bringing some CRJ-200's back in service from the desert while fuel is cheap.


That's incorrect. Per scope, Delta is limited to 125 LINES of CR2 flying. They're moving some of the ASA/Expressjet 200's from there to Endeavor and Skywest, as Expressjet ends their CR2 flying this year.
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clrd4t8koff
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Re: DL CRJ's this summer...

Thu May 18, 2017 1:08 am

FSDan wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
deltairlines wrote:
920 CRJ-100/200 ops that day for Delta. It's been hovering at that level for a while on weekdays.


What happened to reducing CRJ ops. Wasn't there a big deal made about this by DL?


They have been massively reduced. Number of CR2 departures by hub/focus city (over 70 departures) for 7/13/2017:
DTW: 130
ATL: 115
MSP: 101
SLC: 53
JFK: 20
CVG: 18
LGA: 17
RDU: 7
LAX: 0
SEA: 0
BOS: 0


Where are you getting your numbers from? According to another poster there's almost 1k ops this summer Friday, July 21st:

deltairlines wrote:
920 CRJ-100/200 ops that day for Delta. It's been hovering at that level for a while on weekdays.
 
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Adipasquale
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Re: DL CRJ's this summer...

Thu May 18, 2017 1:12 am

FSDan wrote:
They have been massively reduced. Number of CR2 departures by hub/focus city (over 70 departures) for 7/13/2017:
DTW: 130
ATL: 115
MSP: 101
SLC: 53
JFK: 20
CVG: 18
LGA: 17
RDU: 7
LAX: 0
SEA: 0
BOS: 0

I know at least for BOS that will increase slightly this fall as DL begins BOS-BUF with CR2s on Sep 10 3x daily on weekdays and 2x daily weekends. Do you know if DL is starting any other routes es. BOS this fall that will be CR2?
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jbs2886
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Re: DL CRJ's this summer...

Thu May 18, 2017 1:14 am

DiamondFlyer wrote:
cvgComair wrote:
FSDan wrote:

DL retired their ERJ-145s in that period and backfilled the capacity with some more CRJ-200s. DL (and AA and UA, for that matter) is not increasing 50-seat flying overall.


I saw somewhere that DL was increasing CRJ-200 flying at ATL by bringing some CRJ-200's back in service from the desert while fuel is cheap.


That's incorrect. Per scope, Delta is limited to 125 LINES of CR2 flying. They're moving some of the ASA/Expressjet 200's from there to Endeavor and Skywest, as Expressjet ends their CR2 flying this year.


I know there is a different between aircraft and "lines" but can't exactly figure out the difference. What is a "line"?
 
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Re: DL CRJ's this summer...

Thu May 18, 2017 1:17 am

As you know what was a "plan" 1 year ago. Is way out of date!! This industry changes monthly... I laughed when i saw the Comfort + in the CRJ200,... But that just proves they will be around awhile....
 
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Re: DL CRJ's this summer...

Thu May 18, 2017 1:43 am

jbs2886 wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:
cvgComair wrote:

I saw somewhere that DL was increasing CRJ-200 flying at ATL by bringing some CRJ-200's back in service from the desert while fuel is cheap.


That's incorrect. Per scope, Delta is limited to 125 LINES of CR2 flying. They're moving some of the ASA/Expressjet 200's from there to Endeavor and Skywest, as Expressjet ends their CR2 flying this year.


I know there is a different between aircraft and "lines" but can't exactly figure out the difference. What is a "line"?


Basically a line of flying is what can be flown by 1 airplane, if it was in service year round. But, as you know, airplanes can't be in service year round, so having more than 125 airplanes around gives you the ability to fly 125 lines of flying. DL scope clause on large regional jets is frames on property, versus the 50 seaters being lines of flying. No idea why its set up that way, but it is what it is.
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alasizon
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Re: DL CRJ's this summer...

Thu May 18, 2017 2:05 am

DiamondFlyer wrote:
Basically a line of flying is what can be flown by 1 airplane, if it was in service year round. But, as you know, airplanes can't be in service year round, so having more than 125 airplanes around gives you the ability to fly 125 lines of flying. DL scope clause on large regional jets is frames on property, versus the 50 seaters being lines of flying. No idea why its set up that way, but it is what it is.


My guess is that it may possibly relate to the OO house livery birds, they could be counted as "on property" when sitting in SLC in between being needed. By specifying lines, it allows there to be more spare aircraft.
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asqx
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Re: DL CRJ's this summer...

Thu May 18, 2017 2:08 am

DiamondFlyer wrote:
That's incorrect. Per scope, Delta is limited to 125 LINES of CR2 flying.


Does that include the pro-rate flying where the connection carrier assumes the risk of operating the flight? SkyWest has quite a few pro-rate routes in the Delta system and there are frames flying Delta Connection flights (some in DL colors, some in SkyWest colors) that DL doesn't list as part of the Delta Connection fleet that are flying Delta passengers.
 
DiamondFlyer
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Re: DL CRJ's this summer...

Thu May 18, 2017 2:10 am

asqx wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:
That's incorrect. Per scope, Delta is limited to 125 LINES of CR2 flying.


Does that include the pro-rate flying where the connection carrier assumes the risk of operating the flight? SkyWest has quite a few pro-rate routes in the Delta system and there are frames flying Delta Connection flights (some in DL colors, some in SkyWest colors) that DL doesn't list as part of the Delta Connection fleet that are flying Delta passengers.

No idea, I've asked that question a couple times, even to DALPA members and they asked around and couldn't get an answer.
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asqx
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Re: DL CRJ's this summer...

Thu May 18, 2017 2:15 am

DiamondFlyer wrote:
No idea, I've asked that question a couple times, even to DALPA members and they asked around and couldn't get an answer.


I've never been able to get a clear answer myself though I have always assumed that any at-risk routes operated by the Connection carriers weren't included, much in the same way that the EMB-120 routes weren't counted after all but the SkyWest routes out of SLC were replaced with RJs.
 
FSDan
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Re: DL CRJ's this summer...

Thu May 18, 2017 3:24 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:
FSDan wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:

What happened to reducing CRJ ops. Wasn't there a big deal made about this by DL?


They have been massively reduced. Number of CR2 departures by hub/focus city (over 70 departures) for 7/13/2017:
DTW: 130
ATL: 115
MSP: 101
SLC: 53
JFK: 20
CVG: 18
LGA: 17
RDU: 7
LAX: 0
SEA: 0
BOS: 0


Where are you getting your numbers from? According to another poster there's almost 1k ops this summer Friday, July 21st:

deltairlines wrote:
920 CRJ-100/200 ops that day for Delta. It's been hovering at that level for a while on weekdays.


I'm getting my numbers straight from DL's schedules. Add them all up (130+115+101+53+20+18+17+7 = 461), multiply by 2 since the above numbers are just the departures from hubs and don't account for the corresponding return trips, and subtract 2 since CVG-RDU/RDU-CVG is operated by 2x daily CR2s and would thus be counted twice if you didn't remove it from either the CVG or the RDU stats. In the end you get (461x2)-2 = 920, and my numbers square exactly with what deltairlines posted.
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jbs2886
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Re: DL CRJ's this summer...

Thu May 18, 2017 3:32 am

DiamondFlyer wrote:
asqx wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:
That's incorrect. Per scope, Delta is limited to 125 LINES of CR2 flying.


Does that include the pro-rate flying where the connection carrier assumes the risk of operating the flight? SkyWest has quite a few pro-rate routes in the Delta system and there are frames flying Delta Connection flights (some in DL colors, some in SkyWest colors) that DL doesn't list as part of the Delta Connection fleet that are flying Delta passengers.

No idea, I've asked that question a couple times, even to DALPA members and they asked around and couldn't get an answer.


Wow - that seems like a giant loophole, if true.
 
n7371f
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Re: DL CRJ's this summer...

Thu May 18, 2017 4:30 am

Endeavor has been bringing back CRJ's from Kingman for months now - to replace the shuttered the Chautauqua operation & the pulldown at ExpressJet. But somewhat quietly, OO has added at least a dozen or more CR2's to its DL line. Now some of those may have been for subsidy flights out of MSP or at-risk flying from MSP/SLC.
 
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asqx
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Re: DL CRJ's this summer...

Thu May 18, 2017 6:17 am

jbs2886 wrote:
Wow - that seems like a giant loophole, if true.


Yes, it's a loophole in the sense that it allows more than 125 lines of flying worth of aircraft into the Delta Connection system. However, since the pro-rate/at-risk flights are operated at the risk of the connection carrier and not as part of the capacity purchase agreement, Delta only has a very limited control over the flights. It's the responsibility of the connection carrier to create schedules, hire/contract ground staff, make necessary marketing agreements, etc. In order to increase the desirability of the flights, the smaller carrier pays a fee to the mainline carrier, in this case Delta, for the use of the reservation systems, some marketing assistance, and traffic pass through rights. In exchange, Delta will ask for certain controls such as requiring certain service standards, which can include things such as painting planes in Delta Connection colors or even the preferential use of certain vendors for ground handling, catering, etc.

The key to whether it's a giant loophole or not is how is it worded in the PWA between Delta and their pilots. Is the agreement that there will only be 125 line of 50-seat RJ flying total. Or is it limited to capacity purchase agreements totaling 125 lines of 50-seat RJ flying? If it's the later than Delta is free to enter into as many pro-rate agreements with carriers like SkyWest they want. If it's the former, than Delta has flying to cut. I suspect it's the later since Delta has only limited control over the pro-rate flying and it is very much focused on markets where there's almost no likelihood of being sustainable with mainline flying. As much fun as I have going to places like Aberdeen, SD and Alpena, MI and State College, PA, based on our average loads I don't see them getting 2-class RJs in the near future let alone even small mainline planes like a 717 or C-Series.
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: DL CRJ's this summer...

Thu May 18, 2017 10:37 am

FSDan wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
FSDan wrote:

They have been massively reduced. Number of CR2 departures by hub/focus city (over 70 departures) for 7/13/2017:
DTW: 130
ATL: 115
MSP: 101
SLC: 53
JFK: 20
CVG: 18
LGA: 17
RDU: 7
LAX: 0
SEA: 0
BOS: 0


Where are you getting your numbers from? According to another poster there's almost 1k ops this summer Friday, July 21st:

deltairlines wrote:
920 CRJ-100/200 ops that day for Delta. It's been hovering at that level for a while on weekdays.


I'm getting my numbers straight from DL's schedules. Add them all up (130+115+101+53+20+18+17+7 = 461), multiply by 2 since the above numbers are just the departures from hubs and don't account for the corresponding return trips, and subtract 2 since CVG-RDU/RDU-CVG is operated by 2x daily CR2s and would thus be counted twice if you didn't remove it from either the CVG or the RDU stats. In the end you get (461x2)-2 = 920, and my numbers square exactly with what deltairlines posted.


Thanks for doing the math as I obviously couldn't.

But to my original question - DL made a big hoorah about drastically reducing CRJ/single cabin flying. I guess I just don't see 920 flights a day and 125+ CRJ's as that. Is it smaller than before - yes. But not at all what DL made it seem like it was going to be imo.
 
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Adipasquale
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Re: DL CRJ's this summer...

Thu May 18, 2017 11:02 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:
But to my original question - DL made a big hoorah about drastically reducing CRJ/single cabin flying. I guess I just don't see 920 flights a day and 125+ CRJ's as that. Is it smaller than before - yes. But not at all what DL made it seem like it was going to be imo.

It's my understanding that a lot of these flights are to markets that can't support two class RJs or small mainline, or non-hub flights. I also see them flown to mid size markets in conjunction with larger RJs. A good example of this would be DTW-SYR which is 4x daily with the peak time flights operated by 76 seat jets and the two non peak flights operated by 50 seaters. Sure, DL could reduce frequently, but for connection purposes, I'm sure most people prefer four daily flights instead of three.
Also if you look, a lot of the 50 seat flying is out of DTW and MSP, a lot of which goes to small communities that would not otherwise see air service. A good example of this is where I live, ITH. We have three daily CR2 flights to and from DTW and theres no way such a small market could support two class RJs with any reasonable frequency.
Compared with the other two of the big 3, DL in my understanding operates a lot fewer 50 seat flights that are generally shorter as well. UA seems to be the worst offender, and has some of the longest 50 seat segments I've seen.
DH8A DH8B CR2 CR7 CR9 E45 E70 E75 E90 D93 M88 319 320 321 333 343 732 733 734 73G 738 739 752 753 762 763 77L 77W
 
michman
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Re: DL CRJ's this summer...

Thu May 18, 2017 11:18 am

clrd4t8koff wrote:

But to my original question - DL made a big hoorah about drastically reducing CRJ/single cabin flying. I guess I just don't see 920 flights a day and 125+ CRJ's as that. Is it smaller than before - yes. But not at all what DL made it seem like it was going to be imo.


The 125 50-seater number (not necessarily CRJ's) has been published by DL for about 5 years now. Pretty much everyone here but you think that going from 343 to 125 is a pretty significant reduction. The reductions have been large enough that they have walled off the end 16 gates in the C concourse at DTW. I fail to see how DL misrepresented anything as they gave a specific number and are now down to that specific number.
 
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Re: DL CRJ's this summer...

Thu May 18, 2017 1:03 pm

michman wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:

But to my original question - DL made a big hoorah about drastically reducing CRJ/single cabin flying. I guess I just don't see 920 flights a day and 125+ CRJ's as that. Is it smaller than before - yes. But not at all what DL made it seem like it was going to be imo.


The 125 50-seater number (not necessarily CRJ's) has been published by DL for about 5 years now. Pretty much everyone here but you think that going from 343 to 125 is a pretty significant reduction. The reductions have been large enough that they have walled off the end 16 gates in the C concourse at DTW. I fail to see how DL misrepresented anything as they gave a specific number and are now down to that specific number.


Fair enough, we just have a difference of opinions. However, others are saying DL has actually increased the number stealthily via OO to up around 150. That's clearly a misrepresentation, no?

MO11 wrote:
First quarter report says 150 CRJs as of 3/31/17, compared with 135 Q1 2016.
 
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Re: DL CRJ's this summer...

Thu May 18, 2017 1:54 pm

A.net has continued to perpetuate a myth that DL was going to retire all CRJ-200s in short-order. That was never the story that was ever been officially communicated.
 
DiamondFlyer
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Re: DL CRJ's this summer...

Thu May 18, 2017 2:04 pm

n7371f wrote:
Endeavor has been bringing back CRJ's from Kingman for months now - to replace the shuttered the Chautauqua operation & the pulldown at ExpressJet. But somewhat quietly, OO has added at least a dozen or more CR2's to its DL line. Now some of those may have been for subsidy flights out of MSP or at-risk flying from MSP/SLC.


Endeavor hasn't taken a plane out of IGM for probably 8 months now, it was all done in late 2015 thru mid 2016. The only additions to the fleet at 9E are 14 planes coming from ASA/Expressjet
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FSDan
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Re: DL CRJ's this summer...

Thu May 18, 2017 2:07 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
But to my original question - DL made a big hoorah about drastically reducing CRJ/single cabin flying. I guess I just don't see 920 flights a day and 125+ CRJ's as that. Is it smaller than before - yes. But not at all what DL made it seem like it was going to be imo.


When you look at the percent reductions in 50-seat flying, it's significant:
DTW: 53% reduction
ATL: 56% reduction
MSP: 35% reduction
SLC: 26% reduction
LGA: 73% reduction
JFK: 56% reduction
CVG: 72% reduction

Also (and as other posters have mentioned), DL is now operating these jets on the types of routes they were intended to be operated on: short and/or thin markets. The longest CR2 route I see as of this summer is ATL-XNA at 589 miles. Only 28 out of 171 CR2 routes are over 500 miles. And just 5-10 years ago you would see CR2s in markets like DTW-PHL and MSP-YYZ. Those are gone, while the remaining routes often link cities that wouldn't otherwise have DL service to hubs.

http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=SLC-PSC%0d%0aSLC-MFR%0d%0aSLC-RDM%0d%0aSLC-LWS%0d%0aSLC-TWF%0d%0aSLC-PIH%0d%0aSLC-IDA%0d%0aSLC-FCA%0d%0aSLC-MSO%0d%0aSLC-GTF%0d%0aSLC-HLN%0d%0aSLC-BTM%0d%0aSLC-WYS%0d%0aSLC-BIL%0d%0aSLC-COD%0d%0aSLC-CPR%0d%0aSLC-FAT%0d%0aSLC-PSP%0d%0aSLC-EKO%0d%0aSLC-SGU%0d%0aSLC-CDC%0d%0aSLC-GJT%0d%0aSLC-COS%0d%0aSLC-RAP%0d%0aMSP-ICT%0d%0aMSP-LNK%0d%0aMSP-OMA%0d%0aMSP-RAP%0d%0aMSP-FSD%0d%0aMSP-ABR%0d%0aMSP-ISN%0d%0aMSP-BIS%0d%0aMSP-MOT%0d%0aMSP-FAR%0d%0aMSP-GFK%0d%0aMSP-INL%0d%0aMSP-BJI%0d%0aMSP-HIB%0d%0aMSP-DLH%0d%0aMSP-BRD%0d%0aMSP-RST%0d%0aMSP-DSM%0d%0aMSP-CID%0d%0aMSP-MQT%0d%0aMSP-IMT%0d%0aMSP-RHI%0d%0aMSP-CWA%0d%0aMSP-LSE%0d%0aMSP-MSN%0d%0aMSP-ATW%0d%0aMSP-MLI%0d%0aMSP-PIA%0d%0aMSP-BMI%0d%0aMSP-FWA%0d%0aMSP-SBN%0d%0aMSP-AZO%0d%0aMSP-LAN%0d%0aMSP-GRR%0d%0aMSP-TVC%0d%0aMSP-MBS%0d%0aMSP-FNT%0d%0aMSP-DAY%0d%0aDTW-YOW%0d%0aDTW-DSM%0d%0aDTW-CID%0d%0aDTW-MQT%0d%0aDTW-IMT%0d%0aDTW-ESC%0d%0aDTW-CIU%0d%0aDTW-CWA%0d%0aDTW-MSN%0d%0aDTW-GRB%0d%0aDTW-ATW%0d%0aDTW-MLI%0d%0aDTW-PIA%0d%0aDTW-EVV%0d%0aDTW-FWA%0d%0aDTW-SBN%0d%0aDTW-AZO%0d%0aDTW-LAN%0d%0aDTW-TVC%0d%0aDTW-PLN%0d%0aDTW-APN%0d%0aDTW-MBS%0d%0aDTW-CAK%0d%0aDTW-CMH%0d%0aDTW-DAY%0d%0aDTW-SDF%0d%0aDTW-LEX%0d%0aDTW-CHA%0d%0aDTW-TYS%0d%0aDTW-HSV%0d%0aDTW-GSP%0d%0aDTW-GSO%0d%0aDTW-ORF%0d%0aDTW-IAD%0d%0aDTW-ERI%0d%0aDTW-SCE%0d%0aDTW-MDT%0d%0aDTW-ABE%0d%0aDTW-AVP%0d%0aDTW-ITH%0d%0aDTW-BGM%0d%0aDTW-ROC%0d%0aDTW-SYR%0d%0aDTW-ALB%0d%0aDTW-SWF%0d%0aDTW-HPN%0d%0aDTW-BTV%0d%0aCVG-YYZ%0d%0aCVG-MCI%0d%0aCVG-STL%0d%0aCVG-MKE%0d%0aCVG-ORD%0d%0aCVG-CLT%0d%0aCVG-RDU%0d%0aCVG-BWI%0d%0aCVG-PHL%0d%0aATL-XNA%0d%0aATL-FSM%0d%0aATL-SHV%0d%0aATL-MLU%0d%0aATL-AEX%0d%0aATL-LFT%0d%0aATL-BTR%0d%0aATL-PIA%0d%0aATL-EVV%0d%0aATL-FWA%0d%0aATL-SBN%0d%0aATL-CHA%0d%0aATL-TRI%0d%0aATL-GTR%0d%0aATL-MGM%0d%0aATL-DHN%0d%0aATL-MOB%0d%0aATL-GNV%0d%0aATL-BQK%0d%0aATL-VLD%0d%0aATL-ABY%0d%0aATL-CSG%0d%0aATL-AGS%0d%0aATL-AVL%0d%0aATL-FAY%0d%0aATL-ILM%0d%0aATL-OAJ%0d%0aATL-EWN%0d%0aATL-CRW%0d%0aATL-ROA%0d%0aATL-CHO%0d%0aRDU-IND%0d%0aRDU-CVG%0d%0aRDU-BWI%0d%0aRDU-PHL%0d%0aLGA-DAY%0d%0aLGA-CHO%0d%0aLGA-ORF%0d%0aLGA-ROC%0d%0aLGA-SYR%0d%0aLGA-BTV%0d%0aLGA-MHT%0d%0aLGA-PWM%0d%0aLGA-BGR%0d%0aJFK-YUL%0d%0aJFK-YQB%0d%0aJFK-RIC%0d%0aJFK-ORF%0d%0aJFK-IAD%0d%0aJFK-BWI%0d%0aJFK-PHL%0d%0aJFK-ROC%0d%0aJFK-SYR%0d%0aJFK-MVY%0d%0aJFK-ACK&MS=wls&MR=300&MX=720x360&PM=b:disc7

Edit: pasting a GCMap of all the CR2 routes didn't appear to work, so I'm hoping the link will do.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
User avatar
tlecam
Posts: 824
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:38 pm

Re: DL CRJ's this summer...

Thu May 18, 2017 2:10 pm

As a customer, I've noticed the reduction of ERJ and CR200 flying in that I'm rarely on one now, on the same routes where they were a regular occurence previously. Specifically flights to smaller mid-west cities like CMH and DSM.
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
commavia
Posts: 10851
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

Re: DL CRJ's this summer...

Thu May 18, 2017 2:14 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
A.net has continued to perpetuate a myth that DL was going to retire all CRJ-200s in short-order. That was never the story that was ever been officially communicated.

FSDan wrote:
When you look at the percent reductions in 50-seat flying, it's significant:
DTW: 53% reduction
ATL: 56% reduction
MSP: 35% reduction
SLC: 26% reduction
LGA: 73% reduction
JFK: 56% reduction
CVG: 72% reduction

Also (and as other posters have mentioned), DL is now operating these jets on the types of routes they were intended to be operated on: short and/or thin markets. The longest CR2 route I see as of this summer is ATL-XNA at 589 miles. Only 28 out of 171 CR2 routes are over 500 miles. And just 5-10 years ago you would see CR2s in markets like DTW-PHL and MSP-YYZ. Those are gone, while the remaining routes often link cities that wouldn't otherwise have DL service to hubs.


Indeed. Delta has been quite clear about its intentions regarding 50-seat flying, and it has done exactly what it said it would do. Not sure from where any incorrect perceptions may stem, but it shouldn't be Delta.

The steady decline of 50-seat flying in the U.S. is indeed quite noticeable - not just at Delta, which has arguably been the most public and outspoken about its plans, but also at AA and United.
 
User avatar
asqx
Posts: 612
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 4:56 pm

Re: DL CRJ's this summer...

Thu May 18, 2017 2:20 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
Fair enough, we just have a difference of opinions. However, others are saying DL has actually increased the number stealthily via OO to up around 150. That's clearly a misrepresentation, no?


Again, it comes down to whether Delta has been saying "125 CRJ-200s under Capacity Purchase Agreements" or "125 CRJ-200s total". I vaguely remember when they first announced the reductions hearing on I think it was a quarterly conference call that it was a reduction the CPA flying but I'm just not that interested in researching it.

Trust me though, there's plenty of folks at SkyWest who would be happy if the pro-rate flying was done entirely on planes in OO paint and that the airport and inflight experience was entirely OO. But, I can also understand why corporate wants to do the flying under the umbrella of a major partner, especially if that helps to increase the viability of the market. Not all pro-rate flying is done for one partner so it helps to avoid passenger confusion if the flying that's integrated into say Delta's network is marketed and branded as Delta Connection. The same applies to the United Express and American Eagle pro-rate flying.
 
FSDan
Posts: 1225
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: DL CRJ's this summer...

Thu May 18, 2017 3:26 pm

commavia wrote:
The steady decline of 50-seat flying in the U.S. is indeed quite noticeable - not just at Delta, which has arguably been the most public and outspoken about its plans, but also at AA and United.


Agreed! It has been really refreshing to watch the 50-seaters dwindle at hubs like IAH, DFW, IAD, LGA, ATL, and PHX.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
klm617
Posts: 1011
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: DL CRJ's this summer...

Fri May 19, 2017 1:16 am

FSDan wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
But to my original question - DL made a big hoorah about drastically reducing CRJ/single cabin flying. I guess I just don't see 920 flights a day and 125+ CRJ's as that. Is it smaller than before - yes. But not at all what DL made it seem like it was going to be imo.


When you look at the percent reductions in 50-seat flying, it's significant:
DTW: 53% reduction
ATL: 56% reduction
MSP: 35% reduction
SLC: 26% reduction
LGA: 73% reduction
JFK: 56% reduction
CVG: 72% reduction

Also (and as other posters have mentioned), DL is now operating these jets on the types of routes they were intended to be operated on: short and/or thin markets. The longest CR2 route I see as of this summer is ATL-XNA at 589 miles. Only 28 out of 171 CR2 routes are over 500 miles. And just 5-10 years ago you would see CR2s in markets like DTW-PHL and MSP-YYZ. Those are gone, while the remaining routes often link cities that wouldn't otherwise have DL service to hubs.

http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=SLC-PSC%0d%0aSLC-MFR%0d%0aSLC-RDM%0d%0aSLC-LWS%0d%0aSLC-TWF%0d%0aSLC-PIH%0d%0aSLC-IDA%0d%0aSLC-FCA%0d%0aSLC-MSO%0d%0aSLC-GTF%0d%0aSLC-HLN%0d%0aSLC-BTM%0d%0aSLC-WYS%0d%0aSLC-BIL%0d%0aSLC-COD%0d%0aSLC-CPR%0d%0aSLC-FAT%0d%0aSLC-PSP%0d%0aSLC-EKO%0d%0aSLC-SGU%0d%0aSLC-CDC%0d%0aSLC-GJT%0d%0aSLC-COS%0d%0aSLC-RAP%0d%0aMSP-ICT%0d%0aMSP-LNK%0d%0aMSP-OMA%0d%0aMSP-RAP%0d%0aMSP-FSD%0d%0aMSP-ABR%0d%0aMSP-ISN%0d%0aMSP-BIS%0d%0aMSP-MOT%0d%0aMSP-FAR%0d%0aMSP-GFK%0d%0aMSP-INL%0d%0aMSP-BJI%0d%0aMSP-HIB%0d%0aMSP-DLH%0d%0aMSP-BRD%0d%0aMSP-RST%0d%0aMSP-DSM%0d%0aMSP-CID%0d%0aMSP-MQT%0d%0aMSP-IMT%0d%0aMSP-RHI%0d%0aMSP-CWA%0d%0aMSP-LSE%0d%0aMSP-MSN%0d%0aMSP-ATW%0d%0aMSP-MLI%0d%0aMSP-PIA%0d%0aMSP-BMI%0d%0aMSP-FWA%0d%0aMSP-SBN%0d%0aMSP-AZO%0d%0aMSP-LAN%0d%0aMSP-GRR%0d%0aMSP-TVC%0d%0aMSP-MBS%0d%0aMSP-FNT%0d%0aMSP-DAY%0d%0aDTW-YOW%0d%0aDTW-DSM%0d%0aDTW-CID%0d%0aDTW-MQT%0d%0aDTW-IMT%0d%0aDTW-ESC%0d%0aDTW-CIU%0d%0aDTW-CWA%0d%0aDTW-MSN%0d%0aDTW-GRB%0d%0aDTW-ATW%0d%0aDTW-MLI%0d%0aDTW-PIA%0d%0aDTW-EVV%0d%0aDTW-FWA%0d%0aDTW-SBN%0d%0aDTW-AZO%0d%0aDTW-LAN%0d%0aDTW-TVC%0d%0aDTW-PLN%0d%0aDTW-APN%0d%0aDTW-MBS%0d%0aDTW-CAK%0d%0aDTW-CMH%0d%0aDTW-DAY%0d%0aDTW-SDF%0d%0aDTW-LEX%0d%0aDTW-CHA%0d%0aDTW-TYS%0d%0aDTW-HSV%0d%0aDTW-GSP%0d%0aDTW-GSO%0d%0aDTW-ORF%0d%0aDTW-IAD%0d%0aDTW-ERI%0d%0aDTW-SCE%0d%0aDTW-MDT%0d%0aDTW-ABE%0d%0aDTW-AVP%0d%0aDTW-ITH%0d%0aDTW-BGM%0d%0aDTW-ROC%0d%0aDTW-SYR%0d%0aDTW-ALB%0d%0aDTW-SWF%0d%0aDTW-HPN%0d%0aDTW-BTV%0d%0aCVG-YYZ%0d%0aCVG-MCI%0d%0aCVG-STL%0d%0aCVG-MKE%0d%0aCVG-ORD%0d%0aCVG-CLT%0d%0aCVG-RDU%0d%0aCVG-BWI%0d%0aCVG-PHL%0d%0aATL-XNA%0d%0aATL-FSM%0d%0aATL-SHV%0d%0aATL-MLU%0d%0aATL-AEX%0d%0aATL-LFT%0d%0aATL-BTR%0d%0aATL-PIA%0d%0aATL-EVV%0d%0aATL-FWA%0d%0aATL-SBN%0d%0aATL-CHA%0d%0aATL-TRI%0d%0aATL-GTR%0d%0aATL-MGM%0d%0aATL-DHN%0d%0aATL-MOB%0d%0aATL-GNV%0d%0aATL-BQK%0d%0aATL-VLD%0d%0aATL-ABY%0d%0aATL-CSG%0d%0aATL-AGS%0d%0aATL-AVL%0d%0aATL-FAY%0d%0aATL-ILM%0d%0aATL-OAJ%0d%0aATL-EWN%0d%0aATL-CRW%0d%0aATL-ROA%0d%0aATL-CHO%0d%0aRDU-IND%0d%0aRDU-CVG%0d%0aRDU-BWI%0d%0aRDU-PHL%0d%0aLGA-DAY%0d%0aLGA-CHO%0d%0aLGA-ORF%0d%0aLGA-ROC%0d%0aLGA-SYR%0d%0aLGA-BTV%0d%0aLGA-MHT%0d%0aLGA-PWM%0d%0aLGA-BGR%0d%0aJFK-YUL%0d%0aJFK-YQB%0d%0aJFK-RIC%0d%0aJFK-ORF%0d%0aJFK-IAD%0d%0aJFK-BWI%0d%0aJFK-PHL%0d%0aJFK-ROC%0d%0aJFK-SYR%0d%0aJFK-MVY%0d%0aJFK-ACK&MS=wls&MR=300&MX=720x360&PM=b:disc7

Edit: pasting a GCMap of all the CR2 routes didn't appear to work, so I'm hoping the link will do.



Let's be clear the CRJ reduction is not being replaced for the most part the flights are just being eliminated period. It would be nice to see the capacity reduction also to show the bigger picture. I would say the only market where there is upgauging almost one for one is ATL other than that the reasons for less of these flights is through capacity reduction especially at Detroit. For the most part there is lttle or no mainline between Detroit and Texas one would think that DFW and IAH warrant mainline aircraft for the most part.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
jbs2886
Posts: 583
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:07 pm

Re: DL CRJ's this summer...

Fri May 19, 2017 1:29 am

klm617 wrote:
FSDan wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
But to my original question - DL made a big hoorah about drastically reducing CRJ/single cabin flying. I guess I just don't see 920 flights a day and 125+ CRJ's as that. Is it smaller than before - yes. But not at all what DL made it seem like it was going to be imo.


When you look at the percent reductions in 50-seat flying, it's significant:
DTW: 53% reduction
ATL: 56% reduction
MSP: 35% reduction
SLC: 26% reduction
LGA: 73% reduction
JFK: 56% reduction
CVG: 72% reduction

Also (and as other posters have mentioned), DL is now operating these jets on the types of routes they were intended to be operated on: short and/or thin markets. The longest CR2 route I see as of this summer is ATL-XNA at 589 miles. Only 28 out of 171 CR2 routes are over 500 miles. And just 5-10 years ago you would see CR2s in markets like DTW-PHL and MSP-YYZ. Those are gone, while the remaining routes often link cities that wouldn't otherwise have DL service to hubs.

http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=SLC-PSC%0d%0aSLC-MFR%0d%0aSLC-RDM%0d%0aSLC-LWS%0d%0aSLC-TWF%0d%0aSLC-PIH%0d%0aSLC-IDA%0d%0aSLC-FCA%0d%0aSLC-MSO%0d%0aSLC-GTF%0d%0aSLC-HLN%0d%0aSLC-BTM%0d%0aSLC-WYS%0d%0aSLC-BIL%0d%0aSLC-COD%0d%0aSLC-CPR%0d%0aSLC-FAT%0d%0aSLC-PSP%0d%0aSLC-EKO%0d%0aSLC-SGU%0d%0aSLC-CDC%0d%0aSLC-GJT%0d%0aSLC-COS%0d%0aSLC-RAP%0d%0aMSP-ICT%0d%0aMSP-LNK%0d%0aMSP-OMA%0d%0aMSP-RAP%0d%0aMSP-FSD%0d%0aMSP-ABR%0d%0aMSP-ISN%0d%0aMSP-BIS%0d%0aMSP-MOT%0d%0aMSP-FAR%0d%0aMSP-GFK%0d%0aMSP-INL%0d%0aMSP-BJI%0d%0aMSP-HIB%0d%0aMSP-DLH%0d%0aMSP-BRD%0d%0aMSP-RST%0d%0aMSP-DSM%0d%0aMSP-CID%0d%0aMSP-MQT%0d%0aMSP-IMT%0d%0aMSP-RHI%0d%0aMSP-CWA%0d%0aMSP-LSE%0d%0aMSP-MSN%0d%0aMSP-ATW%0d%0aMSP-MLI%0d%0aMSP-PIA%0d%0aMSP-BMI%0d%0aMSP-FWA%0d%0aMSP-SBN%0d%0aMSP-AZO%0d%0aMSP-LAN%0d%0aMSP-GRR%0d%0aMSP-TVC%0d%0aMSP-MBS%0d%0aMSP-FNT%0d%0aMSP-DAY%0d%0aDTW-YOW%0d%0aDTW-DSM%0d%0aDTW-CID%0d%0aDTW-MQT%0d%0aDTW-IMT%0d%0aDTW-ESC%0d%0aDTW-CIU%0d%0aDTW-CWA%0d%0aDTW-MSN%0d%0aDTW-GRB%0d%0aDTW-ATW%0d%0aDTW-MLI%0d%0aDTW-PIA%0d%0aDTW-EVV%0d%0aDTW-FWA%0d%0aDTW-SBN%0d%0aDTW-AZO%0d%0aDTW-LAN%0d%0aDTW-TVC%0d%0aDTW-PLN%0d%0aDTW-APN%0d%0aDTW-MBS%0d%0aDTW-CAK%0d%0aDTW-CMH%0d%0aDTW-DAY%0d%0aDTW-SDF%0d%0aDTW-LEX%0d%0aDTW-CHA%0d%0aDTW-TYS%0d%0aDTW-HSV%0d%0aDTW-GSP%0d%0aDTW-GSO%0d%0aDTW-ORF%0d%0aDTW-IAD%0d%0aDTW-ERI%0d%0aDTW-SCE%0d%0aDTW-MDT%0d%0aDTW-ABE%0d%0aDTW-AVP%0d%0aDTW-ITH%0d%0aDTW-BGM%0d%0aDTW-ROC%0d%0aDTW-SYR%0d%0aDTW-ALB%0d%0aDTW-SWF%0d%0aDTW-HPN%0d%0aDTW-BTV%0d%0aCVG-YYZ%0d%0aCVG-MCI%0d%0aCVG-STL%0d%0aCVG-MKE%0d%0aCVG-ORD%0d%0aCVG-CLT%0d%0aCVG-RDU%0d%0aCVG-BWI%0d%0aCVG-PHL%0d%0aATL-XNA%0d%0aATL-FSM%0d%0aATL-SHV%0d%0aATL-MLU%0d%0aATL-AEX%0d%0aATL-LFT%0d%0aATL-BTR%0d%0aATL-PIA%0d%0aATL-EVV%0d%0aATL-FWA%0d%0aATL-SBN%0d%0aATL-CHA%0d%0aATL-TRI%0d%0aATL-GTR%0d%0aATL-MGM%0d%0aATL-DHN%0d%0aATL-MOB%0d%0aATL-GNV%0d%0aATL-BQK%0d%0aATL-VLD%0d%0aATL-ABY%0d%0aATL-CSG%0d%0aATL-AGS%0d%0aATL-AVL%0d%0aATL-FAY%0d%0aATL-ILM%0d%0aATL-OAJ%0d%0aATL-EWN%0d%0aATL-CRW%0d%0aATL-ROA%0d%0aATL-CHO%0d%0aRDU-IND%0d%0aRDU-CVG%0d%0aRDU-BWI%0d%0aRDU-PHL%0d%0aLGA-DAY%0d%0aLGA-CHO%0d%0aLGA-ORF%0d%0aLGA-ROC%0d%0aLGA-SYR%0d%0aLGA-BTV%0d%0aLGA-MHT%0d%0aLGA-PWM%0d%0aLGA-BGR%0d%0aJFK-YUL%0d%0aJFK-YQB%0d%0aJFK-RIC%0d%0aJFK-ORF%0d%0aJFK-IAD%0d%0aJFK-BWI%0d%0aJFK-PHL%0d%0aJFK-ROC%0d%0aJFK-SYR%0d%0aJFK-MVY%0d%0aJFK-ACK&MS=wls&MR=300&MX=720x360&PM=b:disc7

Edit: pasting a GCMap of all the CR2 routes didn't appear to work, so I'm hoping the link will do.



Let's be clear the CRJ reduction is not being replaced for the most part the flights are just being eliminated period. It would be nice to see the capacity reduction also to show the bigger picture. I would say the only market where there is upgauging almost one for one is ATL other than that the reasons for less of these flights is through capacity reduction especially at Detroit. For the most part there is lttle or no mainline between Detroit and Texas one would think that DFW and IAH warrant mainline aircraft for the most part.


The CRJ capacity has clearly been replaced by larger RJs, 717s and general upgauging. DL has reported decent capacity increases every year since the drawdown began. Just because the reduction may have disproportionately hit your golden DTW does not mean its just elimination.
 
jb1087xna
Posts: 272
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:11 am

Re: DL CRJ's this summer...

Fri May 19, 2017 2:03 am

FSDan wrote:
The longest CR2 route I see as of this summer is ATL-XNA at 589 miles.


And hopefully, if the mid-August schedules hold, the CR2 will be off ATL-XNA starting then. :D
A320/321/330 B717/722/733/735/737/738/739/744/752/762/763 CR1/2/7/9 D95 E145 M82/88/90
 
FSDan
Posts: 1225
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: DL CRJ's this summer...

Fri May 19, 2017 2:27 pm

klm617 wrote:
FSDan wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
But to my original question - DL made a big hoorah about drastically reducing CRJ/single cabin flying. I guess I just don't see 920 flights a day and 125+ CRJ's as that. Is it smaller than before - yes. But not at all what DL made it seem like it was going to be imo.


When you look at the percent reductions in 50-seat flying, it's significant:
DTW: 53% reduction
ATL: 56% reduction
MSP: 35% reduction
SLC: 26% reduction
LGA: 73% reduction
JFK: 56% reduction
CVG: 72% reduction

Also (and as other posters have mentioned), DL is now operating these jets on the types of routes they were intended to be operated on: short and/or thin markets. The longest CR2 route I see as of this summer is ATL-XNA at 589 miles. Only 28 out of 171 CR2 routes are over 500 miles. And just 5-10 years ago you would see CR2s in markets like DTW-PHL and MSP-YYZ. Those are gone, while the remaining routes often link cities that wouldn't otherwise have DL service to hubs.

http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=SLC-PSC%0d%0aSLC-MFR%0d%0aSLC-RDM%0d%0aSLC-LWS%0d%0aSLC-TWF%0d%0aSLC-PIH%0d%0aSLC-IDA%0d%0aSLC-FCA%0d%0aSLC-MSO%0d%0aSLC-GTF%0d%0aSLC-HLN%0d%0aSLC-BTM%0d%0aSLC-WYS%0d%0aSLC-BIL%0d%0aSLC-COD%0d%0aSLC-CPR%0d%0aSLC-FAT%0d%0aSLC-PSP%0d%0aSLC-EKO%0d%0aSLC-SGU%0d%0aSLC-CDC%0d%0aSLC-GJT%0d%0aSLC-COS%0d%0aSLC-RAP%0d%0aMSP-ICT%0d%0aMSP-LNK%0d%0aMSP-OMA%0d%0aMSP-RAP%0d%0aMSP-FSD%0d%0aMSP-ABR%0d%0aMSP-ISN%0d%0aMSP-BIS%0d%0aMSP-MOT%0d%0aMSP-FAR%0d%0aMSP-GFK%0d%0aMSP-INL%0d%0aMSP-BJI%0d%0aMSP-HIB%0d%0aMSP-DLH%0d%0aMSP-BRD%0d%0aMSP-RST%0d%0aMSP-DSM%0d%0aMSP-CID%0d%0aMSP-MQT%0d%0aMSP-IMT%0d%0aMSP-RHI%0d%0aMSP-CWA%0d%0aMSP-LSE%0d%0aMSP-MSN%0d%0aMSP-ATW%0d%0aMSP-MLI%0d%0aMSP-PIA%0d%0aMSP-BMI%0d%0aMSP-FWA%0d%0aMSP-SBN%0d%0aMSP-AZO%0d%0aMSP-LAN%0d%0aMSP-GRR%0d%0aMSP-TVC%0d%0aMSP-MBS%0d%0aMSP-FNT%0d%0aMSP-DAY%0d%0aDTW-YOW%0d%0aDTW-DSM%0d%0aDTW-CID%0d%0aDTW-MQT%0d%0aDTW-IMT%0d%0aDTW-ESC%0d%0aDTW-CIU%0d%0aDTW-CWA%0d%0aDTW-MSN%0d%0aDTW-GRB%0d%0aDTW-ATW%0d%0aDTW-MLI%0d%0aDTW-PIA%0d%0aDTW-EVV%0d%0aDTW-FWA%0d%0aDTW-SBN%0d%0aDTW-AZO%0d%0aDTW-LAN%0d%0aDTW-TVC%0d%0aDTW-PLN%0d%0aDTW-APN%0d%0aDTW-MBS%0d%0aDTW-CAK%0d%0aDTW-CMH%0d%0aDTW-DAY%0d%0aDTW-SDF%0d%0aDTW-LEX%0d%0aDTW-CHA%0d%0aDTW-TYS%0d%0aDTW-HSV%0d%0aDTW-GSP%0d%0aDTW-GSO%0d%0aDTW-ORF%0d%0aDTW-IAD%0d%0aDTW-ERI%0d%0aDTW-SCE%0d%0aDTW-MDT%0d%0aDTW-ABE%0d%0aDTW-AVP%0d%0aDTW-ITH%0d%0aDTW-BGM%0d%0aDTW-ROC%0d%0aDTW-SYR%0d%0aDTW-ALB%0d%0aDTW-SWF%0d%0aDTW-HPN%0d%0aDTW-BTV%0d%0aCVG-YYZ%0d%0aCVG-MCI%0d%0aCVG-STL%0d%0aCVG-MKE%0d%0aCVG-ORD%0d%0aCVG-CLT%0d%0aCVG-RDU%0d%0aCVG-BWI%0d%0aCVG-PHL%0d%0aATL-XNA%0d%0aATL-FSM%0d%0aATL-SHV%0d%0aATL-MLU%0d%0aATL-AEX%0d%0aATL-LFT%0d%0aATL-BTR%0d%0aATL-PIA%0d%0aATL-EVV%0d%0aATL-FWA%0d%0aATL-SBN%0d%0aATL-CHA%0d%0aATL-TRI%0d%0aATL-GTR%0d%0aATL-MGM%0d%0aATL-DHN%0d%0aATL-MOB%0d%0aATL-GNV%0d%0aATL-BQK%0d%0aATL-VLD%0d%0aATL-ABY%0d%0aATL-CSG%0d%0aATL-AGS%0d%0aATL-AVL%0d%0aATL-FAY%0d%0aATL-ILM%0d%0aATL-OAJ%0d%0aATL-EWN%0d%0aATL-CRW%0d%0aATL-ROA%0d%0aATL-CHO%0d%0aRDU-IND%0d%0aRDU-CVG%0d%0aRDU-BWI%0d%0aRDU-PHL%0d%0aLGA-DAY%0d%0aLGA-CHO%0d%0aLGA-ORF%0d%0aLGA-ROC%0d%0aLGA-SYR%0d%0aLGA-BTV%0d%0aLGA-MHT%0d%0aLGA-PWM%0d%0aLGA-BGR%0d%0aJFK-YUL%0d%0aJFK-YQB%0d%0aJFK-RIC%0d%0aJFK-ORF%0d%0aJFK-IAD%0d%0aJFK-BWI%0d%0aJFK-PHL%0d%0aJFK-ROC%0d%0aJFK-SYR%0d%0aJFK-MVY%0d%0aJFK-ACK&MS=wls&MR=300&MX=720x360&PM=b:disc7

Edit: pasting a GCMap of all the CR2 routes didn't appear to work, so I'm hoping the link will do.



Let's be clear the CRJ reduction is not being replaced for the most part the flights are just being eliminated period. It would be nice to see the capacity reduction also to show the bigger picture. I would say the only market where there is upgauging almost one for one is ATL other than that the reasons for less of these flights is through capacity reduction especially at Detroit. For the most part there is lttle or no mainline between Detroit and Texas one would think that DFW and IAH warrant mainline aircraft for the most part.


I'm guessing facts won't change your mind at all, but just in case they do, here are some that show DTW has more seats on DL than it did two years ago. The bigger picture you asked for:

Summer 2014
ER4: 37
CR2: 172
CR7: 43
CR9: 45
E70: 1
E75: 11
717: 18
M88: 28
M90: 13
319: 39
320: 21
738: 10
739: 9
752: 19
753: 1
763: 8
764: 2
333: 4
772: 3
77L: 3
744: 2

Total departures: 489
Approx. seats: 47097

Summer 2017
CR2: 130
CR7: 60
CR9: 70
E70: 2
E75: 12
717: 38
M88: 23
M90: 25
319: 19
320: 21
738: 5
739: 29
752: 12
753: 8
763: 3
332: 6
333: 3
744: 3

Total departures: 469
Approx. seats: 48696

But obviously DL is committed to pulling down DTW as a hub. We all know that 48696 is actually a smaller number of seats than 47097. DL just wants us to think it's a bigger number so they can pull the wool over our eyes.

Edit: updating approx. 2014 seat count to account for domestic vs. international 767s.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 2716
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: DL CRJ's this summer...

Fri May 19, 2017 4:27 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:
asqx wrote:

Does that include the pro-rate flying where the connection carrier assumes the risk of operating the flight? SkyWest has quite a few pro-rate routes in the Delta system and there are frames flying Delta Connection flights (some in DL colors, some in SkyWest colors) that DL doesn't list as part of the Delta Connection fleet that are flying Delta passengers.

No idea, I've asked that question a couple times, even to DALPA members and they asked around and couldn't get an answer.


Wow - that seems like a giant loophole, if true.

Not really. It's just a codeshare arrangement. OO is the carrier just as if it was a codeshare with another airline.
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 3856
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

Re: DL CRJ's this summer...

Fri May 19, 2017 4:43 pm

tlecam wrote:
As a customer, I've noticed the reduction of ERJ and CR200 flying in that I'm rarely on one now, on the same routes where they were a regular occurence previously. Specifically flights to smaller mid-west cities like CMH and DSM.


Using today as the gauge, CRJs departing CMH: DTW (3), JFK (3), RDU (1). Everything else has been upgauged (CMH-MSP used to have a couple a day, but is now M90, 717, 2x CR9; BOS is 3x CR9, etc.).
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
FSDan
Posts: 1225
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: DL CRJ's this summer...

Fri May 19, 2017 6:35 pm

DeltaRules wrote:
tlecam wrote:
As a customer, I've noticed the reduction of ERJ and CR200 flying in that I'm rarely on one now, on the same routes where they were a regular occurence previously. Specifically flights to smaller mid-west cities like CMH and DSM.


Using today as the gauge, CRJs departing CMH: DTW (3), JFK (3), RDU (1). Everything else has been upgauged (CMH-MSP used to have a couple a day, but is now M90, 717, 2x CR9; BOS is 3x CR9, etc.).


This summer (I'm looking at 7/13), CMH-JFK will be all E70, and CMH-RDU will be 1x CR7 and 1x CR9. CMH-DTW will have 5x CR2s (in addition to 1x CR7 and 2x E-Jets), but that's it for 50-seaters from CMH. CMH-MSP will be 3x CR7s and 2x 319s.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
Menzenski
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:19 pm

Re: DL CRJ's this summer...

Fri May 19, 2017 10:17 pm

Adipasquale wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
Also if you look, a lot of the 50 seat flying is out of DTW and MSP, a lot of which goes to small communities that would not otherwise see air service. A good example of this is where I live, ITH. We have three daily CR2 flights to and from DTW and theres no way such a small market could support two class RJs with any reasonable frequency.


I actually think ITH (in particular) could support twice-daily CRJ-700 flights to DTW -- after all, that would be fewer seats than the three daily -200s. Considering ITH-DTW has been (mostly) twice-daily since it started years ago, I don't think the loss of one frequency would be that all that bad.

That said, I'd personally prefer three flights to two, even if they're all on 200s.
 
User avatar
Adipasquale
Posts: 767
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:39 pm

Re: DL CRJ's this summer...

Sat May 20, 2017 1:07 am

Menzenski wrote:
I actually think ITH (in particular) could support twice-daily CRJ-700 flights to DTW -- after all, that would be fewer seats than the three daily -200s. Considering ITH-DTW has been (mostly) twice-daily since it started years ago, I don't think the loss of one frequency would be that all that bad.

That said, I'd personally prefer three flights to two, even if they're all on 200s.

From a customer perspective, 3x daily is SO much better than 2x daily. When DTW-ITH was 2x daily, a lot of connections were in the 4+ hour range, which made it more attractive to fly out of other airports. Now that it's gone 3x daily, the aren't any layovers much longer than three hours and flying from ITH is a much more attractive option. Which gets to my main point, on the routes they were meant to fly on. CRJs are not anywhere as bad to fly on as some people claim they are. The convenience they offer is much greater than sitting in a smaller than average seat for one hour.
DH8A DH8B CR2 CR7 CR9 E45 E70 E75 E90 D93 M88 319 320 321 333 343 732 733 734 73G 738 739 752 753 762 763 77L 77W
 
DiamondFlyer
Posts: 2422
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:50 pm

Re: DL CRJ's this summer...

Sat May 20, 2017 12:18 pm

Menzenski wrote:
Adipasquale wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
Also if you look, a lot of the 50 seat flying is out of DTW and MSP, a lot of which goes to small communities that would not otherwise see air service. A good example of this is where I live, ITH. We have three daily CR2 flights to and from DTW and theres no way such a small market could support two class RJs with any reasonable frequency.


I actually think ITH (in particular) could support twice-daily CRJ-700 flights to DTW -- after all, that would be fewer seats than the three daily -200s. Considering ITH-DTW has been (mostly) twice-daily since it started years ago, I don't think the loss of one frequency would be that all that bad.

That said, I'd personally prefer three flights to two, even if they're all on 200s.


I wouldn't count on seeing ITH as anything but a 200, since the flight numbers are in the 7xxx range, which is generally where the EAS/At Risk OO flying is numbered.
From my cold, dead hands
 
highflier92660
Posts: 571
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 2:16 am

Re: DL CRJ's this summer...

Sat May 20, 2017 2:09 pm

Going to CLE next weekend via Delta. I don't mind the arrival aboard a CRJ-900, particularly up front in the business class seats. However Delta still insists on torturing we travelers by using its regional affiliates obsolete 50-passenger CRJ-200s. On the CLE-JFK route an Endeaver CRJ-200 departs at roughly the same time as a Republic (American) E-170. While the American Airlines passengers are enjoying a flight to the Big Apple aboard Embraer's "full size" regional jet we'll be squeezed-in an old stretched Challenger, looking out windows located at our waists in an airplane who's rate-of-climb poops-out above 20,000 feet.

You're better than that Delta. Schedule some E-jets into CLE.
 
SESGDL
Posts: 2640
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:25 am

Re: DL CRJ's this summer...

Sat May 20, 2017 2:37 pm

FSDan wrote:
klm617 wrote:
FSDan wrote:

When you look at the percent reductions in 50-seat flying, it's significant:
DTW: 53% reduction
ATL: 56% reduction
MSP: 35% reduction
SLC: 26% reduction
LGA: 73% reduction
JFK: 56% reduction
CVG: 72% reduction

Also (and as other posters have mentioned), DL is now operating these jets on the types of routes they were intended to be operated on: short and/or thin markets. The longest CR2 route I see as of this summer is ATL-XNA at 589 miles. Only 28 out of 171 CR2 routes are over 500 miles. And just 5-10 years ago you would see CR2s in markets like DTW-PHL and MSP-YYZ. Those are gone, while the remaining routes often link cities that wouldn't otherwise have DL service to hubs.

http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=SLC-PSC%0d%0aSLC-MFR%0d%0aSLC-RDM%0d%0aSLC-LWS%0d%0aSLC-TWF%0d%0aSLC-PIH%0d%0aSLC-IDA%0d%0aSLC-FCA%0d%0aSLC-MSO%0d%0aSLC-GTF%0d%0aSLC-HLN%0d%0aSLC-BTM%0d%0aSLC-WYS%0d%0aSLC-BIL%0d%0aSLC-COD%0d%0aSLC-CPR%0d%0aSLC-FAT%0d%0aSLC-PSP%0d%0aSLC-EKO%0d%0aSLC-SGU%0d%0aSLC-CDC%0d%0aSLC-GJT%0d%0aSLC-COS%0d%0aSLC-RAP%0d%0aMSP-ICT%0d%0aMSP-LNK%0d%0aMSP-OMA%0d%0aMSP-RAP%0d%0aMSP-FSD%0d%0aMSP-ABR%0d%0aMSP-ISN%0d%0aMSP-BIS%0d%0aMSP-MOT%0d%0aMSP-FAR%0d%0aMSP-GFK%0d%0aMSP-INL%0d%0aMSP-BJI%0d%0aMSP-HIB%0d%0aMSP-DLH%0d%0aMSP-BRD%0d%0aMSP-RST%0d%0aMSP-DSM%0d%0aMSP-CID%0d%0aMSP-MQT%0d%0aMSP-IMT%0d%0aMSP-RHI%0d%0aMSP-CWA%0d%0aMSP-LSE%0d%0aMSP-MSN%0d%0aMSP-ATW%0d%0aMSP-MLI%0d%0aMSP-PIA%0d%0aMSP-BMI%0d%0aMSP-FWA%0d%0aMSP-SBN%0d%0aMSP-AZO%0d%0aMSP-LAN%0d%0aMSP-GRR%0d%0aMSP-TVC%0d%0aMSP-MBS%0d%0aMSP-FNT%0d%0aMSP-DAY%0d%0aDTW-YOW%0d%0aDTW-DSM%0d%0aDTW-CID%0d%0aDTW-MQT%0d%0aDTW-IMT%0d%0aDTW-ESC%0d%0aDTW-CIU%0d%0aDTW-CWA%0d%0aDTW-MSN%0d%0aDTW-GRB%0d%0aDTW-ATW%0d%0aDTW-MLI%0d%0aDTW-PIA%0d%0aDTW-EVV%0d%0aDTW-FWA%0d%0aDTW-SBN%0d%0aDTW-AZO%0d%0aDTW-LAN%0d%0aDTW-TVC%0d%0aDTW-PLN%0d%0aDTW-APN%0d%0aDTW-MBS%0d%0aDTW-CAK%0d%0aDTW-CMH%0d%0aDTW-DAY%0d%0aDTW-SDF%0d%0aDTW-LEX%0d%0aDTW-CHA%0d%0aDTW-TYS%0d%0aDTW-HSV%0d%0aDTW-GSP%0d%0aDTW-GSO%0d%0aDTW-ORF%0d%0aDTW-IAD%0d%0aDTW-ERI%0d%0aDTW-SCE%0d%0aDTW-MDT%0d%0aDTW-ABE%0d%0aDTW-AVP%0d%0aDTW-ITH%0d%0aDTW-BGM%0d%0aDTW-ROC%0d%0aDTW-SYR%0d%0aDTW-ALB%0d%0aDTW-SWF%0d%0aDTW-HPN%0d%0aDTW-BTV%0d%0aCVG-YYZ%0d%0aCVG-MCI%0d%0aCVG-STL%0d%0aCVG-MKE%0d%0aCVG-ORD%0d%0aCVG-CLT%0d%0aCVG-RDU%0d%0aCVG-BWI%0d%0aCVG-PHL%0d%0aATL-XNA%0d%0aATL-FSM%0d%0aATL-SHV%0d%0aATL-MLU%0d%0aATL-AEX%0d%0aATL-LFT%0d%0aATL-BTR%0d%0aATL-PIA%0d%0aATL-EVV%0d%0aATL-FWA%0d%0aATL-SBN%0d%0aATL-CHA%0d%0aATL-TRI%0d%0aATL-GTR%0d%0aATL-MGM%0d%0aATL-DHN%0d%0aATL-MOB%0d%0aATL-GNV%0d%0aATL-BQK%0d%0aATL-VLD%0d%0aATL-ABY%0d%0aATL-CSG%0d%0aATL-AGS%0d%0aATL-AVL%0d%0aATL-FAY%0d%0aATL-ILM%0d%0aATL-OAJ%0d%0aATL-EWN%0d%0aATL-CRW%0d%0aATL-ROA%0d%0aATL-CHO%0d%0aRDU-IND%0d%0aRDU-CVG%0d%0aRDU-BWI%0d%0aRDU-PHL%0d%0aLGA-DAY%0d%0aLGA-CHO%0d%0aLGA-ORF%0d%0aLGA-ROC%0d%0aLGA-SYR%0d%0aLGA-BTV%0d%0aLGA-MHT%0d%0aLGA-PWM%0d%0aLGA-BGR%0d%0aJFK-YUL%0d%0aJFK-YQB%0d%0aJFK-RIC%0d%0aJFK-ORF%0d%0aJFK-IAD%0d%0aJFK-BWI%0d%0aJFK-PHL%0d%0aJFK-ROC%0d%0aJFK-SYR%0d%0aJFK-MVY%0d%0aJFK-ACK&MS=wls&MR=300&MX=720x360&PM=b:disc7

Edit: pasting a GCMap of all the CR2 routes didn't appear to work, so I'm hoping the link will do.



Let's be clear the CRJ reduction is not being replaced for the most part the flights are just being eliminated period. It would be nice to see the capacity reduction also to show the bigger picture. I would say the only market where there is upgauging almost one for one is ATL other than that the reasons for less of these flights is through capacity reduction especially at Detroit. For the most part there is lttle or no mainline between Detroit and Texas one would think that DFW and IAH warrant mainline aircraft for the most part.


I'm guessing facts won't change your mind at all, but just in case they do, here are some that show DTW has more seats on DL than it did two years ago. The bigger picture you asked for:

Summer 2014
ER4: 37
CR2: 172
CR7: 43
CR9: 45
E70: 1
E75: 11
717: 18
M88: 28
M90: 13
319: 39
320: 21
738: 10
739: 9
752: 19
753: 1
763: 8
764: 2
333: 4
772: 3
77L: 3
744: 2

Total departures: 489
Approx. seats: 47097

Summer 2017
CR2: 130
CR7: 60
CR9: 70
E70: 2
E75: 12
717: 38
M88: 23
M90: 25
319: 19
320: 21
738: 5
739: 29
752: 12
753: 8
763: 3
332: 6
333: 3
744: 3

Total departures: 469
Approx. seats: 48696

But obviously DL is committed to pulling down DTW as a hub. We all know that 48696 is actually a smaller number of seats than 47097. DL just wants us to think it's a bigger number so they can pull the wool over our eyes.

Edit: updating approx. 2014 seat count to account for domestic vs. international 767s.


Great info! Do you have these stats for DL's other hubs as well?

Jeremy
 
flight152
Posts: 3250
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2000 8:04 am

Re: DL CRJ's this summer...

Sat May 20, 2017 3:27 pm

highflier92660 wrote:
Going to CLE next weekend via Delta. I don't mind the arrival aboard a CRJ-900, particularly up front in the business class seats. However Delta still insists on torturing we travelers by using its regional affiliates obsolete 50-passenger CRJ-200s. On the CLE-JFK route an Endeaver CRJ-200 departs at roughly the same time as a Republic (American) E-170. While the American Airlines passengers are enjoying a flight to the Big Apple aboard Embraer's "full size" regional jet we'll be squeezed-in an old stretched Challenger, looking out windows located at our waists in an airplane who's rate-of-climb poops-out above 20,000 feet.

You're better than that Delta. Schedule some E-jets into CLE.

Dude. It's a one hour flight. No need to be so dramatic.

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