http://www.aviationpros.com/article/122 ... ue-airways

Interesting article which gives some interesting points which weren't covered in the Q1 earnings conference call. I particularly found the below points to be notable:

(1) Plans for 4 new cities next year
(2) ATL - "finally" going to be in Concourse E; D gate holdrooms fit only "15 or 20 people", which is inadequate for its 150-seat A320's
(3) BOS-LGA has been "fantastic"
(4) New self-bag tag check-in lobbies at JFK, BOS and SJU, with continued system deployment expected; major part of cost reduction initiative
(5) More connecting the dots for Caribbean growth; very few new islands to be added (as most are covered already)
(6) FLL - believes B6 has the "right" to use some gates in WN's new international terminal

Looking good.

jetbluefan1 wrote:

http://www.aviationpros.com/article/12299952/industry-insider-marty-st-george-executive-vice-president-commercial-planning-jetblue-airways

Interesting article which gives some interesting points which weren't covered in the Q1 earnings conference call. I particularly found the below points to be notable:

(1) Plans for 4 new cities next year
(2) ATL - "finally" going to be in Concourse E; D gate holdrooms fit only "15 or 20 people", which is inadequate for its 150-seat A320's
(3) BOS-LGA has been "fantastic"
(4) New self-bag tag check-in lobbies at JFK, BOS and SJU, with continued system deployment expected; major part of cost reduction initiative
(5) More connecting the dots for Caribbean growth; very few new islands to be added (as most are covered already)
(6) FLL - believes B6 has the "right" to use some gates in WN's new international terminal

1) Hmm...I wonder if they are domestic?
2) I wonder how much of a battle that was.
3) Not surprising
4) OK
5) More connecting dots to where? What's not connected? BOS has most things doesn't it? JFK had. FLL has. Are we talking about MCO? OR are we talking about point to point? That would be big.
6) We'll see. LOL

Hoping MSP will finally make the cut.

TerminalD wrote:

5) More connecting dots to where? What's not connected? BOS has most things doesn't it? JFK had. FLL has. Are we talking about MCO? OR are we talking about point to point? That would be big.

More connecting the dots = don't expect a lot of growth/new flights in the Caribbean from B6, just a new flight here or there between BOS/JFK/FLL to a Caribbean dot not served from the airport.

Wonder what the four will be.

speedbird2263 wrote:

Hoping MSP will finally make the cut.

Honestly wouldn't surprise me.
I'd look at the big domestics they are missing and then near South America (maybe PTY or GYE?)

Highly unlikely, but I wish they'd announce FLL or MCO-REC and code-share with AD.

I'd like to see new midcon stations.

MCI/STL/MSP

I would assume Central America (at least one destination) is on the next round of expansion. It would only seem logical.

speedbird2263 wrote:

Hoping MSP will finally make the cut.

Just a thought, I will wonder if b6 has looked into purchasing sun country.

tphuang wrote:

speedbird2263 wrote:

Hoping MSP will finally make the cut.

Just a thought, I will wonder if b6 has looked into purchasing sun country.

Not sure, but I'd think culturally B6 would probably prefer to grow organically.

PlanesNTrains wrote:

tphuang wrote:

speedbird2263 wrote:

Hoping MSP will finally make the cut.

Just a thought, I will wonder if b6 has looked into purchasing sun country.

Not sure, but I'd think culturally B6 would probably prefer to grow organically.

B6 was all set to purchase VX. If they see a good opportunity they will grow through acquisition. That said I'm not sure they would have an interest in Sun Country.

Varsity1 wrote:

I'd like to see new midcon stations.

MCI/STL/MSP

True. B9 has been cold towards the Midwest.

ELP.

Polot wrote:

PlanesNTrains wrote:

tphuang wrote:

Just a thought, I will wonder if b6 has looked into purchasing sun country.

Not sure, but I'd think culturally B6 would probably prefer to grow organically.

B6 was all set to purchase VX. If they see a good opportunity they will grow through acquisition. That said I'm not sure they would have an interest in Sun Country.

How quickly I forget. lol However, they are probably the two most culturally similar in some respects, and the product transition would have been minor for all involved. I just can't believe VX didn't even occur to me.

lavalampluva wrote:

Varsity1 wrote:

I'd like to see new midcon stations.

MCI/STL/MSP

True. B9 has been cold towards the Midwest.

In fairness, the midwest has been cold to all of us. lol

PlanesNTrains wrote:

Polot wrote:

PlanesNTrains wrote:

Not sure, but I'd think culturally B6 would probably prefer to grow organically.

B6 was all set to purchase VX. If they see a good opportunity they will grow through acquisition. That said I'm not sure they would have an interest in Sun Country.

How quickly I forget. lol However, they are probably the two most culturally similar in some respects, and the product transition would have been minor for all involved. I just can't believe VX didn't even occur to me.

IMO SY would have been a better fit for AS. At least they have similar a/c and the route structure would have blended.

lavalampluva wrote:

PlanesNTrains wrote:

Polot wrote:

B6 was all set to purchase VX. If they see a good opportunity they will grow through acquisition. That said I'm not sure they would have an interest in Sun Country.

How quickly I forget. lol However, they are probably the two most culturally similar in some respects, and the product transition would have been minor for all involved. I just can't believe VX didn't even occur to me.

IMO SY would have been a better fit for AS. At least they have similar a/c and the route structure would have blended.

Perhaps, but I'm not sure that they'd want to be THAT good of friends with DL. Seattle is one thing, MSP is another.

Would love to get STT<>JFK or FLL instead of having to take a 20 min flight just to connect through SJU

TerminalD wrote:

jetbluefan1 wrote:

http://www.aviationpros.com/article/12299952/industry-insider-marty-st-george-executive-vice-president-commercial-planning-jetblue-airways

Interesting article which gives some interesting points which weren't covered in the Q1 earnings conference call. I particularly found the below points to be notable:

(1) Plans for 4 new cities next year
(2) ATL - "finally" going to be in Concourse E; D gate holdrooms fit only "15 or 20 people", which is inadequate for its 150-seat A320's
(3) BOS-LGA has been "fantastic"
(4) New self-bag tag check-in lobbies at JFK, BOS and SJU, with continued system deployment expected; major part of cost reduction initiative
(5) More connecting the dots for Caribbean growth; very few new islands to be added (as most are covered already)
(6) FLL - believes B6 has the "right" to use some gates in WN's new international terminal

1) Hmm...I wonder if they are domestic?
2) I wonder how much of a battle that was.
3) Not surprising
4) OK
5) More connecting dots to where? What's not connected? BOS has most things doesn't it? JFK had. FLL has. Are we talking about MCO? OR are we talking about point to point? That would be big.
6) We'll see. LOL

1)I wonder too. 4 domestics seem like a big jump as well. Assuming international is in the mix I would speculate MEM MSP STL and SVD (from JFK) will be added. They will get a nice subsidy for the new SVD. I'm surprised they haven't studied CZM.
2)Good news
3)What's the definition of fantastic?
4) That has pro's and cons... the leisure traveler has difficulty with these self tags at times.
5) MCO-PAP was just loaded... BOS-HAV weekly frequency is being asked for... Weekly BOS-ANU would probably be the only hole in BOS though. BOS-CUR could be attempted too.
6)

Hoping for SAT

adamh8297 wrote:

3)What's the definition of fantastic?

Airline executive profitability characterization translation table...

"Not quite where we want it to be yet" = "This is a huge disaster, who is getting fired?"
"It's improving" = "Last year it was not quite where we want it to be, and now it is only a little better".
"Meeting expectations" = "Full, but yields are garbage...and we knew that going in."
"It's making money" = "It's unprofitable by 9 out of the ten ways we measure such things, but this 10th one shows it made a 0.0004% profit margin if we assume we had to pay the pilots anyway and the plane has its mortgage paid off."
"It's making tons of money" = This never happens referring to a single route. Airlines never call out profitable markets because it is the siren song of an engraved invitation for a competitor to enter.

Gimme an "O"!
Gimme an "R"!
Gimme an "F"!
What's that spell?

A place you don't fly!

Please come to Norfolk

PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASE come to MKE!

There was a recent article about Ontario trying to get JetBlue to come back. I think that is quite likely.
And looking even further ahead if they add a321lr then lgw and dub in 2019. So I would imagine no new domestic city in 2019.

vatveng wrote:

Gimme an "O"!
Gimme an "R"!
Gimme an "F"!
What's that spell?

A place you don't fly!

Please come to Norfolk

Sounds good! I may be a little biased though...

Looking through this thread has made me realize how lucky we are to get bored of seeing B6 around here all the time! Talk about a good problem to have, I've been taking it for granted it all these years, but the more I think about it, the more I realize how many big holes are in the network...

Midwest to MCO is a gap right now, the east coast is pretty much covered so I think MCO-PIT, CLE, DTW and ORD could happen eventually.

I am still having trouble with this awful quoting system...so just to respond to a few points made:

MSP is probably one of those 4 cities - as long as the US economy doesn't tank. It's by far the largest unserved market by B6 from BOS. Both cities have growing and diverse economies, and both are inhabited by largely liberal populations. There are also some very strong industry links (mutual funds, asset management, consulting) so I would expect B6 could pick up a slice of that high yield business traffic. Seems like a good match for B6's brand - at least relative to other unserved Midwest markets.

LGA being "fantastic", per the article, means that B6 is making money off of $129 walk-up business fares. (Note the interview was conducted a few weeks ago, before B6 raised walk-up fares to $199.) I would infer that a majority of seats on BOS-LGA are purchased within days of departure.

The FLL Terminal 1 comment is interesting. Why would B6 have a "right" to some of the gates? WN is financing the construction of that terminal, from what I understand. Will this result in higher PFC's for everyone...including B6 customers. Currently, I believe B6 has preferential use to 3 (soon to be 6) gates at the new Terminal 4, as well as access to CUTE gates.

TerminalD wrote:

adamh8297 wrote:

3)What's the definition of fantastic?

Airline executive profitability characterization translation table...

"Not quite where we want it to be yet" = "This is a huge disaster, who is getting fired?"
"It's improving" = "Last year it was not quite where we want it to be, and now it is only a little better".
"Meeting expectations" = "Full, but yields are garbage...and we knew that going in."
"It's making money" = "It's unprofitable by 9 out of the ten ways we measure such things, but this 10th one shows it made a 0.0004% profit margin if we assume we had to pay the pilots anyway and the plane has its mortgage paid off."
"It's making tons of money" = This never happens referring to a single route. Airlines never call out profitable markets because it is the siren song of an engraved invitation for a competitor to enter.

This is great, thanks for sharing!

Polot wrote:

PlanesNTrains wrote:

tphuang wrote:

Just a thought, I will wonder if b6 has looked into purchasing sun country.

Not sure, but I'd think culturally B6 would probably prefer to grow organically.

B6 was all set to purchase VX. If they see a good opportunity they will grow through acquisition. That said I'm not sure they would have an interest in Sun Country.

A failed bid they will continuously regret for years to come.

QueenoftheSkies wrote:

Polot wrote:

PlanesNTrains wrote:

Not sure, but I'd think culturally B6 would probably prefer to grow organically.

B6 was all set to purchase VX. If they see a good opportunity they will grow through acquisition. That said I'm not sure they would have an interest in Sun Country.

A failed bid they will continuously regret for years to come.

That remains to be seen. Let's not forget B6 was the party that put down the pencil when at the negotiating table. AS arguably had more to lose.

Of course B6 would have fewer uncertainties with significant LAX and SFO operations, essentially wiping away B6's weak West Coast presence overnight. However, B6 has $2.5B more to play with today, which is a good chunk of change to pursue organic expansion.

But this will be a non-issue in 6-8 years when B6/AS merge and build a bi-coastal powerhouse

tphuang wrote:

There was a recent article about Ontario trying to get JetBlue to come back. I think that is quite likely.
And looking even further ahead if they add a321lr then lgw and dub in 2019. So I would imagine no new domestic city in 2019.

With Jetblue deferring A321neos (and switching their deliveries next year to ceos) I wouldn't hold your breath on them picking up A321LRs before 2020.

tphuang wrote:

There was a recent article about Ontario trying to get JetBlue to come back. I think that is quite likely.

I think a return to TUS would be far more likely, or they could try a new beyond-LGA perimeter market like COS, EGE, JAC or SAT. Now that B6 has added ample service to LAX and PSP there is very little reason for B6 to serve ONT. Seeing as how DL can no longer manage any kind of nonstop ONT-ATL service (they were even willing to try a limited Christmas holiday operation on this route) and AA is only confident enough to offer nonstop ONT-ORD during a limited peak summer travel timeframe I would be shocked to see B6 retry JFK-ONT anytime soon. Today I really like the idea of JFK-SNA-ONT-JFK, but SNA's short runway may no longer preclude nonstop service to the East Coast (with a viable payload, of course) in a few years when the A32xneos enter the B6 fleet?

here is a list of the current up and coming 3 routes connecting the dots:

Boston, MA (BOS) to Bermuda (BDA)
May 18, 2017

Fort Lauderdale, FL (FLL) to Salt Lake City, UT (SLC)
November 16, 2017

Orlando, FL (MCO) to Port-au-Prince, Haiti (PAP)
December 14, 2017

Varsity1 wrote:

I'd like to see new midcon stations.

MCI/STL/MSP

Don't they have to add some more tiny cities in Mass. before they can add another midwest city?!!? For a long time they flew to more cities in Massachusetts than all of the central time zone.

Along with MSP I could see B6 starting flights from JFK,BOS and FLL to CVG.

AirbusMDCFAN wrote:

here is a list of the current up and coming 3 routes connecting the dots:

Boston, MA (BOS) to Bermuda (BDA)
May 18, 2017

I've been wondering why they call this a new route? Its only newly operated year round per my understanding.

I really think they are waiting on BOS-HAV approval to decide on BOS-ANU. Massport and Antigua both want an ANU flight.

Hawaii seems like a "hole" in the network. Not sure if B6 has an ETOPS program or ETOPS rated planes but HI would surely complement their bevy of fantastic vacation destinationin the Caribbean and Gulf for West Coast FF's.

77H

adamh8297 wrote:

AirbusMDCFAN wrote:

here is a list of the current up and coming 3 routes connecting the dots:

Boston, MA (BOS) to Bermuda (BDA)
May 18, 2017

I've been wondering why they call this a new route? Its only newly operated year round per my understanding.

I really think they are waiting on BOS-HAV approval to decide on BOS-ANU. Massport and Antigua both want an ANU flight.

BOS-BDA is currently seasonal service

"But this will be a non-issue in 6-8 years when B6/AS merge and build a bi-coastal powerhouse"

It struck me some time ago that the two of them interlining and/or certain code sharing could provide powerful competition to the bigger four. The lacuna is some of flyover country. They could probably provide a little subsidy and a lot of stability to a/some regional airlines and offer excellent coverage the country over. Hawaii? hmmmmm.

I wonder if MHT could be in the mix. It would finish the Boston/New England blanket of coverage for B6 and it's been speculated for a long time. MSP and STL are obvious holes int he network. MSP would certainly draw a response from DL and STL would be a direct strike at WN from BOS which could be interesting to see play out. WN now wins that route by default, but if B6 could win enough local BOS travelers to knock WN down a frequency or two, it could set a tone for B6 on other routes that WN serves but B6 doesn't.

georgiabill wrote:

Along with MSP I could see B6 starting flights from JFK,BOS and FLL to CVG.

I don't CVG is in their sights. They have CLE/DTW/PIT/ORD all in the old Industrial Belt with room for expansion. I think they'll move further west to places like STL/MSP. But that's if they go into the central Midwest at all.

They should really serve Cap Haitien from
FLL sometime as far as new Caribbean destinations. AA must make a killing on that flight.

Re: STT

The plane can not get off the runway and make JFK or BOS non stop without penalty.

You need a 757 (and I think a 738 can do it)

The Airbus simply can not do it.

They can fly to STT nonstop as they do from BOS. But the return needs to stop somewhere.

Even in SXM, you often see B6 departing over Maho Beach.

Terrain, engine thrust, aircraft size...all play a part.

DTW-JFK is a possibility along with ORD/DTW/CLE/PIT-MCO.

I think it would be interesting and great to see B6 try Key West from either MCO or FLL. I dont think the 190 would have any issues with the runway going that short of a distance at a full load. And would add another vacation destination to B6's route map.

adamh8297 wrote:

TerminalD wrote:

jetbluefan1 wrote:

http://www.aviationpros.com/article/12299952/industry-insider-marty-st-george-executive-vice-president-commercial-planning-jetblue-airways

Interesting article which gives some interesting points which weren't covered in the Q1 earnings conference call. I particularly found the below points to be notable:

(1) Plans for 4 new cities next year
(2) ATL - "finally" going to be in Concourse E; D gate holdrooms fit only "15 or 20 people", which is inadequate for its 150-seat A320's
(3) BOS-LGA has been "fantastic"
(4) New self-bag tag check-in lobbies at JFK, BOS and SJU, with continued system deployment expected; major part of cost reduction initiative
(5) More connecting the dots for Caribbean growth; very few new islands to be added (as most are covered already)
(6) FLL - believes B6 has the "right" to use some gates in WN's new international terminal

1) Hmm...I wonder if they are domestic?
2) I wonder how much of a battle that was.
3) Not surprising
4) OK
5) More connecting dots to where? What's not connected? BOS has most things doesn't it? JFK had. FLL has. Are we talking about MCO? OR are we talking about point to point? That would be big.
6) We'll see. LOL

1)I wonder too. 4 domestics seem like a big jump as well. Assuming international is in the mix I would speculate MEM MSP STL and SVD (from JFK) will be added. They will get a nice subsidy for the new SVD. I'm surprised they haven't studied CZM.
2)Good news
3)What's the definition of fantastic?
4) That has pro's and cons... the leisure traveler has difficulty with these self tags at times.
5) MCO-PAP was just loaded... BOS-HAV weekly frequency is being asked for... Weekly BOS-ANU would probably be the only hole in BOS though. BOS-CUR could be attempted too.
6)

MEM officials want BOS and better FFL connectivity.
MSP, STL, and MEM along with MSY covers the major Mississippi River towns from top to bottom. All have Global Entry. MEM would steal from LIT at some level making it a larger market than it appears when just looking at Memphis Proper. Memphis seems right for an E Jet while others are Airbus towns. MEM O&D continues to grow, basically new concourse on the way. I don't know about JFK but man that would be swell.

I've posted way too much that Alaska and Jet Blue should jump on the new non hubbed Memphis market and grow their presences there with their business models that cater for more average passengers and decent reward programs.

georgiabill wrote:

Along with MSP I could see B6 starting flights from JFK,BOS and FLL to CVG.

CVG is still a hub, Delta will either aggressively fight back against an invasion of Southwest and/or JetBlue as they aren't the typical LCC types and could steal more business passengers or dehub it.

WaywardMemphian wrote:

CVG is still a hub, Delta will either aggressively fight back against an invasion of Southwest and/or JetBlue as they aren't the typical LCC types and could steal more business passengers or dehub it.

With DL switching to offense in BOS and B6 once again in ATL. Just because someplace is a hub doesn't mean its going to keep B6 out. ATL has shown us if B6's business customers really want a route....they will add it. And at least for BOS-ATL early booking has been a success.

jfklganyc wrote:

Re: STT

The plane can not get off the runway and make JFK or BOS non stop without penalty.

You need a 757 (and I think a 738 can do it)

The Airbus simply can not do it.

They can fly to STT nonstop as they do from BOS. But the return needs to stop somewhere.

Even in SXM, you often see B6 departing over Maho Beach.

Terrain, engine thrust, aircraft size...all play a part.

Except that the load was light enough and winds favorable enough that the A320 has done STT-BOS nonstop many times since the route started.