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LamboAston
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2017

Mon May 08, 2017 6:14 am

NPL8800 wrote:
CI has closed reservation for their TPE-SYD-CHC summer service, TPE-MEL-CHC will remain

Over winter?
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77west
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2017

Mon May 08, 2017 6:19 am

When do we get the first A321? I know the first NEO is due later this year, but thought it would be an A320NEO rather than a 321
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DougS
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2017

Mon May 08, 2017 7:15 am

HUD is not a prerequisite to ZQN night ops. To operate night through ZQN you have to lodge an Operator Safety Case with CAA. Air NZ made their OSC with the HUD as mandatory equipment, which precluded any international ops at night until the NEOs arrive due to the lack of HUD in the OJ series of aircraft. Jetstar said screw that and lodged their case with CAA sans HUD. It was approved, so no HUD for them. As for Virgin, I don't know but really doubt they would spend the millions per frame when Jetstar had already set the precedent.

ZKOXA[/quote]
More of a question is why was it sitting in CHC for nearly a week before these flights, after positioning from MEL with the same flight number (VA9948)[/quote]

My Guess would be that they were outfitting it with HUD, and they wanted to test them in Queenstown much like NZ did with their A320s with HUD.
Now, I have four questions related to night flights into Queenstown:
1. Is VA planning on doing night operations into Queenstown along with NZ and Jetstar?
2. Is it necessary to fit HUD into aircraft for night flying ops into Queenstown or just helpful?
3. How long until we see Qantas begin night flights, or would they have to install HUD too?
4. Has Jetstar installed HUD into their A320 fleet, if so which aircraft?

ZKOXA[/quote
 
NPL8800
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2017

Mon May 08, 2017 7:16 am

LamboAston wrote:
NPL8800 wrote:
CI has closed reservation for their TPE-SYD-CHC summer service, TPE-MEL-CHC will remain

Over winter?


Just summer I believe
 
DougS
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2017

Mon May 08, 2017 7:18 am

Zkpilot wrote:
QF46 wrote:
aerorobnz wrote:
- The "old" domestics are 6.5 years compared to 13.5 years for the regionals. It seems the target window for fleet replacement for 777/A320/787s now the old 767/744s are gone is in the vicinity of 15 years. That means that even the most elderly of the A320Ds are only approaching their "half-life".


As a rule, don't short-haul aircraft have a somewhat shorter life than long-haul aircraft, due to a greater number of rotations? I think I've read somewhere that wear-and-tear is caused more by takeoff/landing cycles than by the sheer number of hours flown, such that longer haul aircraft stick around for longer (as with KLM's 747s, for instance).

Correct the number of cycles generally dictates service life (especially when aircraft come up for costly heavy maintenance).


FYI OAB pretty much has the same cycles now as OJA.
 
DougS
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2017

Mon May 08, 2017 7:24 am

LamboAston wrote:
aerorobnz wrote:
zkncj wrote:

From some quick research tonight:

OJQ,OJR, OJS and OAB - Leased
OXA-OXM - Owned

I do wonder if they are planning to replace the OJ* domestic fleet with A321's, on top of the 13 A321/320NEO purchase they did agree to lease 5x 321NEO which the rights to on sell the some of the 13 purchased if required later on. So in theory they do have slots for 18 NEO's unless they choose to onsell the 5.

A couple of points to make on this,

- I don't believe that the domestic A320s will change to A321s any time soon. The A321s will likely be utilised as regional primarily, with a few subs and for the business travel peak periods of the day and seasonal peaks domestically only. I think it is a reasonable assumption to expect that anything replacing the Regionals will likely be an A321.

- If they do go A321s to WLG.CHC/DUD/ZQN then there is a gap between 70Y and 220Y which is not an inconsequential gap to bridge especially when the ports want frequency rather than capacity.

- The domestic airports might be able to handle them, but the current AKL domestic terminal can't easily without flow restriction and overall operational penalty to domestic. Gate holds, misconnections etc. I don/t think A321s will be mainstream domestically until the new terminal is built. 40 extra seats in and out will have a impact on turn times and gate availability.

- The "old" domestics are 6.5 years compared to 13.5 years for the regionals. It seems the target window for fleet replacement for 777/A320/787s now the old 767/744s are gone is in the vicinity of 15 years. That means that even the most elderly of the A320Ds are only approaching their "half-life".

The A321s will not be 220Y, they will be 171Y if I remember correctly. They will also still have the OX series aircraft. The OJ domestic fleet is only 4 aircraft out of the total 17. This would allow for a small capacity boost on selected flights having 4 A321 and 13 A320D. The four OJ A320D could replace the oldest A320 regional aircraft, or be growth in either domestic or international. So before you go shouting "facts" Aerorobnz, check them. QF46 and ZKpilot above are also right, correcting you again.

Also, todays VA23 flew over AKL on a very southerly track.


Ahem glass houses etc. You aren't recalling correctly. 321 will be 200+. Highly unlikely the domestic OAB, OJQ-OJS will end up on internationals due to the high cost of re-configuring them.
 
DougS
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2017

Mon May 08, 2017 7:26 am

77west wrote:
When do we get the first A321? I know the first NEO is due later this year, but thought it would be an A320NEO rather than a 321


First deliveries are meant to be 321s.
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2017

Mon May 08, 2017 7:38 am

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ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2017

Mon May 08, 2017 7:52 am

DougS wrote:
77west wrote:
When do we get the first A321? I know the first NEO is due later this year, but thought it would be an A320NEO rather than a 321


First deliveries are meant to be 321s.


You seem to be in the no Doug, do we have a confirmed breakdown of 320's/321's? Last I heard I think it was 8 321's?

NPL8800 wrote:
LamboAston wrote:
NPL8800 wrote:
CI has closed reservation for their TPE-SYD-CHC summer service, TPE-MEL-CHC will remain

Over winter?



Just summer I believe


Only runs over summer to CHC, if they still do the extra SYD flights they may increase AKL rather than park at SYD?
 
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77west
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2017

Mon May 08, 2017 8:04 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
DougS wrote:
77west wrote:
When do we get the first A321? I know the first NEO is due later this year, but thought it would be an A320NEO rather than a 321


First deliveries are meant to be 321s.


You seem to be in the no Doug, do we have a confirmed breakdown of 320's/321's? Last I heard I think it was 8 321's?

NPL8800 wrote:
LamboAston wrote:
Over winter?



Just summer I believe


Only runs over summer to CHC, if they still do the extra SYD flights they may increase AKL rather than park at SYD?


It may make sense for the entire regional narrowbody fleet to go A321. Given that the vast majority of them see 787/777 as well they could probably all upgauge to A321 without much issue. So maybe more than 8 eventually. I have heard 3, 4, 7 and 8 from different sources. 3 or 4 seems to low; 8 minimum would make for a good subfleet.

Do we know if the flight crew will fly both 320/321 concurrently?
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2017

Mon May 08, 2017 8:08 am

Surely flight crew will fly both. No different to the 772/77W really. Most of the ex AKL routes could use them it's more the other ports where they may not need the capacity. Can an A321 fly into ZQN?
 
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77west
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2017

Mon May 08, 2017 8:51 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
Surely flight crew will fly both. No different to the 772/77W really. Most of the ex AKL routes could use them it's more the other ports where they may not need the capacity. Can an A321 fly into ZQN?


Hmmm I would think so, but the issue with ZQN for an A321 is rotation angle; the A321 may have the thrust and lift but if the rather short runway does not allow it to rotate early enough, and to a great enough angle, it will take a hit on departure.
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2017

Mon May 08, 2017 10:01 am

Crew to fly 320/321/CEO/NEO concurrently. Conceivably you could fly both the 321/320 or NEO/CEO on the same day but generally the duties don't enable this. Training is a day in the classroom. Half day covers 321 differences, the other half, the NEO differences. There's not too many significant changes up front. Dual HUD as opposed to single, Engine parameters displayed differently, CPDLC/ADS-C, Autopliot to fly TCAS-RA automatically and that's about it AFAIK.
I don't think the ratio of 321 to 320 is set in stone yet and I think they are probably a bit cagey on those numbers being public so not going to put my foot in it there.
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2017

Mon May 08, 2017 8:59 pm

Just got home from a trip to Europe yesterday with FRA-SIN-AKL legs on 77Ws on SQ. Saw in their inflight mag references to their fleet including 777-300ER and "retrofitted" 777-300 aircraft. Does this refer to the onboard product or to an upgrade of the 777-300 to ER status (surely not)? Or something else?
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2017

Mon May 08, 2017 10:55 pm

DavidByrne wrote:
Just got home from a trip to Europe yesterday with FRA-SIN-AKL legs on 77Ws on SQ. Saw in their inflight mag references to their fleet including 777-300ER and "retrofitted" 777-300 aircraft. Does this refer to the onboard product or to an upgrade of the 777-300 to ER status (surely not)? Or something else?


They are in the process of refitting the interiors on the 77W fleet you would think this is what it means. The 773 can't be upgraded to ER.
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2017

Tue May 09, 2017 12:04 am

LamboAston wrote:
aerorobnz wrote:
zkncj wrote:

From some quick research tonight:

OJQ,OJR, OJS and OAB - Leased
OXA-OXM - Owned

I do wonder if they are planning to replace the OJ* domestic fleet with A321's, on top of the 13 A321/320NEO purchase they did agree to lease 5x 321NEO which the rights to on sell the some of the 13 purchased if required later on. So in theory they do have slots for 18 NEO's unless they choose to onsell the 5.

A couple of points to make on this,

- I don't believe that the domestic A320s will change to A321s any time soon. The A321s will likely be utilised as regional primarily, with a few subs and for the business travel peak periods of the day and seasonal peaks domestically only. I think it is a reasonable assumption to expect that anything replacing the Regionals will likely be an A321.

- If they do go A321s to WLG.CHC/DUD/ZQN then there is a gap between 70Y and 220Y which is not an inconsequential gap to bridge especially when the ports want frequency rather than capacity.

- The domestic airports might be able to handle them, but the current AKL domestic terminal can't easily without flow restriction and overall operational penalty to domestic. Gate holds, misconnections etc. I don/t think A321s will be mainstream domestically until the new terminal is built. 40 extra seats in and out will have a impact on turn times and gate availability.

- The "old" domestics are 6.5 years compared to 13.5 years for the regionals. It seems the target window for fleet replacement for 777/A320/787s now the old 767/744s are gone is in the vicinity of 15 years. That means that even the most elderly of the A320Ds are only approaching their "half-life".

The A321s will not be 220Y, they will be 171Y if I remember correctly. They will also still have the OX series aircraft. The OJ domestic fleet is only 4 aircraft out of the total 17. This would allow for a small capacity boost on selected flights having 4 A321 and 13 A320D. The four OJ A320D could replace the oldest A320 regional aircraft, or be growth in either domestic or international. So before you go shouting "facts" Aerorobnz, check them. QF46 and ZKpilot above are also right, correcting you again.

Also, todays VA23 flew over AKL on a very southerly track.


When I use the words "I wonder" "it seems" "might" "I believe" then I'm not talking as "facts" but as a hypothetical points of conjecture. They are discussable and debatable which of course facts are not.

DougS wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
QF46 wrote:

As a rule, don't short-haul aircraft have a somewhat shorter life than long-haul aircraft, due to a greater number of rotations? I think I've read somewhere that wear-and-tear is caused more by takeoff/landing cycles than by the sheer number of hours flown, such that longer haul aircraft stick around for longer (as with KLM's 747s, for instance).

Correct the number of cycles generally dictates service life (especially when aircraft come up for costly heavy maintenance).


FYI OAB pretty much has the same cycles now as OJA.

Yes indeed it does, and yet LH still have a few (12-13) A320s from 1989-1990 which have lead a life similar to the OJ regionals on routes around Europe between 1 and 5h for 27 years so there is obviously plenty of cycles built into the A320 frames (not DC9 levels). The LH ones will just be scrapped on retirement. It really depends what NZ has planned after they have finished with them, If they plan on scrapping them then 13-15 years is still possible. The 733s were also that kind of age on identical routes when NZ retired them
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2017

Tue May 09, 2017 12:09 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
Just got home from a trip to Europe yesterday with FRA-SIN-AKL legs on 77Ws on SQ. Saw in their inflight mag references to their fleet including 777-300ER and "retrofitted" 777-300 aircraft. Does this refer to the onboard product or to an upgrade of the 777-300 to ER status (surely not)? Or something else?


They are in the process of refitting the interiors on the 77W fleet you would think this is what it means. The 773 can't be upgraded to ER.

My understanding is that SQ has a habit of ordering more capable aircraft (77W) but having the engines de-rated so that they perform like the less capable version (773). Has some benefits in things like landing fee's and since they operate on shorter routes also savings on engine wear and tear, also they get a discount from Boeing or Airbus.
If at a later stage they want the full fat capable version then they simply pay the fee to Boeing or Airbus and the aircraft is amended to become the more capable version (often it's just a paper change or minor software setting tweak).
Not sure if this is what they are doing in this case or if they are just doing a cabin refresh.
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2017

Tue May 09, 2017 1:31 am

I don't believe the 77W Engines can be derated. SQ do have a lot of derated 77E's though used medium and short haul that can be changed back to full ER status.
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2017

Tue May 09, 2017 3:21 am

Zkpilot wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
Just got home from a trip to Europe yesterday with FRA-SIN-AKL legs on 77Ws on SQ. Saw in their inflight mag references to their fleet including 777-300ER and "retrofitted" 777-300 aircraft. Does this refer to the onboard product or to an upgrade of the 777-300 to ER status (surely not)? Or something else?


They are in the process of refitting the interiors on the 77W fleet you would think this is what it means. The 773 can't be upgraded to ER.

My understanding is that SQ has a habit of ordering more capable aircraft (77W) but having the engines de-rated so that they perform like the less capable version (773). Has some benefits in things like landing fee's and since they operate on shorter routes also savings on engine wear and tear, also they get a discount from Boeing or Airbus.
If at a later stage they want the full fat capable version then they simply pay the fee to Boeing or Airbus and the aircraft is amended to become the more capable version (often it's just a paper change or minor software setting tweak).
Not sure if this is what they are doing in this case or if they are just doing a cabin refresh.


773 and 77W are completely different aircraft with different engines, wings, landing gear, and many more smaller items. I think you're thinking of their 777-200 aircraft which are reduced weight ERs.
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2017

Tue May 09, 2017 4:22 am

CHCalfonzo wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

They are in the process of refitting the interiors on the 77W fleet you would think this is what it means. The 773 can't be upgraded to ER.

My understanding is that SQ has a habit of ordering more capable aircraft (77W) but having the engines de-rated so that they perform like the less capable version (773). Has some benefits in things like landing fee's and since they operate on shorter routes also savings on engine wear and tear, also they get a discount from Boeing or Airbus.
If at a later stage they want the full fat capable version then they simply pay the fee to Boeing or Airbus and the aircraft is amended to become the more capable version (often it's just a paper change or minor software setting tweak).
Not sure if this is what they are doing in this case or if they are just doing a cabin refresh.


773 and 77W are completely different aircraft with different engines, wings, landing gear, and many more smaller items. I think you're thinking of their 777-200 aircraft which are reduced weight ERs.

I know they are different aircraft however I was of the understanding that they can be effectively turned into a paper 773.
Yes probably more relevant to the 77E/772 which they did.
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2017

Tue May 09, 2017 6:21 am

Yeah the 77W is only available with the GE90-115B engine and 775,000lb MTOW. No options to derate. By upgrade, SQ probably meant cabin upgrades. Or upgraded 777-300 non-ER cabin; but I thought they were getting rid of those...

Caveat: 77W might have an option for a slightly lower MTOW, but not engines. The GE90-110B is only available on the 777-200LR and F. It is the same engine with a rating plug change.
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DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2017

Tue May 09, 2017 11:19 am

FWIW the word SQ use is "retrofitted", not upgraded. Don't know if we can read anything into the choice of word?
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2017

Tue May 09, 2017 12:00 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
Just got home from a trip to Europe yesterday with FRA-SIN-AKL legs on 77Ws on SQ. Saw in their inflight mag references to their fleet including 777-300ER and "retrofitted" 777-300 aircraft. Does this refer to the onboard product or to an upgrade of the 777-300 to ER status (surely not)? Or something else?


They are in the process of refitting the interiors on the 77W fleet you would think this is what it means. The 773 can't be upgraded to ER.


In my experience this is referring to on board product - i.e. Raffles / Business in 1-2-1 and latest Y seating and carpets and entertainment, consistent w 77W or close to so passenger experience is similar but no available performance upgrade will take 773 to 77W as far as I know - it is impossible!
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2017

Tue May 09, 2017 6:03 pm

Air NZ is expecting to have a PER lounge ready by the end of 2017, so I was wondering if they intend to serve destinations beyond PER.
When the rumours of QF PER-LHR started, I wondered if LH might do MUC-PER with the A359. However, would Air NZ's 275 seat 789s be capable of PER-MUC. I know there's a Pacific Rim strategy etc, but LHR is already an exception.

Here's a possible Northern Winter schedule based on the QF PER-LHR, less MUC-LHR, for two 789's.
Mo Th Fr Su AKL-PER 1650/1915 (7hr 25m), PER-MUC 2100/0605+1 (16hr 05m)
Mo Tu Fr Su MUC-PER 1735/1615+1 (15hr 40m), Tu We Sa Su PER-AKL 1755/0505+1 (6hr 10m)

And:
Mo We Th Fr Su AKL-SYD 0700/0835 (3hr 35m), SYD-AKL 0945/1455 (3hr 10m)
Downtime at AKL Wed 1455 to Fri 0700.

CHC-PER / PER-CHC could connect.

A third 789 would permit MUC daily ex Tu plus SYD daily, with downtime Tu 1455 to Fr 0700.

PA515
 
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Zkpilot
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2017

Tue May 09, 2017 10:19 pm

PA515 wrote:
Air NZ is expecting to have a PER lounge ready by the end of 2017, so I was wondering if they intend to serve destinations beyond PER.
When the rumours of QF PER-LHR started, I wondered if LH might do MUC-PER with the A359. However, would Air NZ's 275 seat 789s be capable of PER-MUC. I know there's a Pacific Rim strategy etc, but LHR is already an exception.

Here's a possible Northern Winter schedule based on the QF PER-LHR, less MUC-LHR, for two 789's.
Mo Th Fr Su AKL-PER 1650/1915 (7hr 25m), PER-MUC 2100/0605+1 (16hr 05m)
Mo Tu Fr Su MUC-PER 1735/1615+1 (15hr 40m), Tu We Sa Su PER-AKL 1755/0505+1 (6hr 10m)

And:
Mo We Th Fr Su AKL-SYD 0700/0835 (3hr 35m), SYD-AKL 0945/1455 (3hr 10m)
Downtime at AKL Wed 1455 to Fri 0700.

CHC-PER / PER-CHC could connect.

A third 789 would permit MUC daily ex Tu plus SYD daily, with downtime Tu 1455 to Fr 0700.

PA515

Hmm Oktoberfest Express... I like!!! :D :D :D
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DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2017

Tue May 09, 2017 10:37 pm

Can't think of anything worse than being in Munich in October with a few hundred thousand drunks! I was in Helsinki some years ago on 1 May, and that was an extraordinary scene of mass public drunkenness (and I mean mass!) on a scale I'd never believed possible . . .
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2017

Tue May 09, 2017 11:27 pm

PA515 wrote:
However, would Air NZ's 275 seat 789s be capable of PER-MUC. I know there's a Pacific Rim strategy etc, but LHR is already an exception.

Here's a possible Northern Winter schedule based on the QF PER-LHR, less MUC-LHR, for two 789's.
Mo Th Fr Su AKL-PER 1650/1915 (7hr 25m), PER-MUC 2100/0605+1 (16hr 05m)
Mo Tu Fr Su MUC-PER 1735/1615+1 (15hr 40m), Tu We Sa Su PER-AKL 1755/0505+1 (6hr 10m)


A third 789 would permit MUC daily ex Tu plus SYD daily, with downtime Tu 1455 to Fr 0700.


PER-MUC has a similar track to PER-DXB which has a conservative flight time typically of 11hrs. This would put PER-MUC at about 16hrs 30min. The 275 seat 789 should be good for about 31t payload for this sector time, which is max passenger plus a bit. Thus I think it would work. Also I believe PER-FRA would work.
 
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Zkpilot
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2017

Wed May 10, 2017 4:07 am

NZ is upping EZE by 1 flight per week (up to 5 now in Peak Summer).
They are also going to send the new premium configured 789 to IAH up to daily during peak.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news ... d=11853158
Luxon also hinted at an additional USA destination and an East Coast South America destination (in other words Brazil).
''We are looking at the unique geography that New Zealand has and the unique aircraft technology we have today and that is increasingly coming to propel ourselves more into the midwest and east of North America and into the east coast of South America," he said.
Bye Bye Pac Rim policy finally!
Typically "The Midwest" is considered to be the following: Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota, Ohio, South Dakota and Wisconsin.
Illinois being the state where Chigago (ORD) is located. So the short odds would be on ORD being next along with a Brazil destination.
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2017

Wed May 10, 2017 4:53 am

NZ will still call it pacific rim since they won't add any 1 stop services to anywhere weather these cities are on the pacific or not.

I still don't no that we will see another South America destination until EZE is daily.

EZE was announced 5 weekly a while back but we do now no where the 2 premium 789's arriving this year are going.

Also said more KIX flights this year, I wonder if they can increase HND slot wise?
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2017

Wed May 10, 2017 5:34 am

Why do posters have to interpret "Pacific Rim" in the most literal manner possible? Can't we just accept that it means "within the nonstop range of a typical long-haul aircraft" and we can all move on . . . I'm absolutely sure that when the strategy was announced, way back now, it was never expected that it would be analysed so deeply for its meaning.

Perhaps the next interesting question will be where the two 77Es that last summer served IAH will be deployed to next summer. I still have hopes for a new destination.
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2017

Wed May 10, 2017 5:46 am

Last I looked the extra PVG flights that ran last summer weren't in the schedules yet.

772's at this stage will be doing in summer
HKG daily 2 aircraft
YVR daily 2 aircraft
RAR-LAX, RAR-SYD, SFO all weekly so 1 frame with some down time
HNL 4-5 weekly .75 frames NOV17th JAN30th then 789 again

Last year NRT was a daily 772 so there is some jigging still to go, I'm not sure on the 789 yet but more KIX it seems More HKG connecting to EZE slots permitting?
 
smi0006
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2017

Wed May 10, 2017 6:19 am

Zkpilot wrote:
NZ is upping EZE by 1 flight per week (up to 5 now in Peak Summer).
They are also going to send the new premium configured 789 to IAH up to daily during peak.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news ... d=11853158
Luxon also hinted at an additional USA destination and an East Coast South America destination (in other words Brazil).
''We are looking at the unique geography that New Zealand has and the unique aircraft technology we have today and that is increasingly coming to propel ourselves more into the midwest and east of North America and into the east coast of South America," he said.
Bye Bye Pac Rim policy finally!
Typically "The Midwest" is considered to be the following: Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota, Ohio, South Dakota and Wisconsin.
Illinois being the state where Chigago (ORD) is located. So the short odds would be on ORD being next along with a Brazil destination.


Not a regular poster in the NZ thread, but always curious to hear what NZ is up to. With IAH going to 789, where would the two displaced 772 be sent? More Tasman and islands, or could we see them sent to A new route sooner than later? Seems a lot of slack. Or will HND, KIX, DPS, SGN and other seasonal increases absorb them?
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2017

Wed May 10, 2017 6:43 am

The linked article said KIX will increase, nothing else other than that announced, I think it will be increasing existing routes. SGN and DPS are NS only, the extra PVG flights that operated last NW aren't loaded but they will still be finalising things.
 
QF46
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2017

Wed May 10, 2017 8:06 am

Zkpilot wrote:
NZ is upping EZE by 1 flight per week (up to 5 now in Peak Summer).
They are also going to send the new premium configured 789 to IAH up to daily during peak.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news ... d=11853158
Luxon also hinted at an additional USA destination and an East Coast South America destination (in other words Brazil).
''We are looking at the unique geography that New Zealand has and the unique aircraft technology we have today and that is increasingly coming to propel ourselves more into the midwest and east of North America and into the east coast of South America," he said.
Bye Bye Pac Rim policy finally!
Typically "The Midwest" is considered to be the following: Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota, Ohio, South Dakota and Wisconsin.
Illinois being the state where Chigago (ORD) is located. So the short odds would be on ORD being next along with a Brazil destination.


While AKL is geographically well-placed to act has a transit point between EZE (and other potential Latin American destinations) and Asian destinations such as SIN, HKG, NRT etc., NZ's schedules don't yet facilitate that - typically there are a long layovers in both directions. I assume that's because there's much more commercial value for NZ in ensuring good connectivity with Australia. But, couldn't routes like AKL-SIN (on either NZ or SQ) be retimed to connect with EZE-AKL? Could SQ's summer A380 be downsized to an A350/777-300ER or an NZ 787, so as to allow a third early morning flight?

Also, any thoughts as to whether SCL would be viable? I'm aware that one of NZ's criteria for choosing routes is having a partner at the destination, to facilitate onward connections. That would obviously be missing at SCL, a LATAM stronghold. However, ...

    Chile must have reasonable O&D traffic in its own right;
    NZ offers superb connectivity on to Australia (and, potentially/subject to the above, to Asia) - including beyond LATAM's existing SYD and future MEL destinations; and
    it seems there's a fair bit of demand of the route. During summer, LATAM has more than seven flights a week AKL-SCL doesn't it?
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2017

Wed May 10, 2017 8:23 am

smi0006 wrote:
Not a regular poster in the NZ thread, but always curious to hear what NZ is up to. With IAH going to 789, where would the two displaced 772 be sent? More Tasman and islands, or could we see them sent to A new route sooner than later? Seems a lot of slack. Or will HND, KIX, DPS, SGN and other seasonal increases absorb them?


With the 763 left the fleet (finally) the the 772 has picked up some of the Tasman/Pacific slack, and would expect durring the peak summer period to see more 772 services. With the 4 oldest 772s now reaching around 12 years old, maybe we will see these ones becoming the new 763s? Being run to the ground until we're all complain about them.

Makes sense to use the 789s on the longer routes, we're the fuel saving are worth it. We're as it might workout better to use the 772s which are getting older, but have an lower ownership cost on short-haul we're fuel useage isn't as much as an issue.
 
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Zkpilot
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2017

Wed May 10, 2017 8:24 am

QF46 wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
NZ is upping EZE by 1 flight per week (up to 5 now in Peak Summer).
They are also going to send the new premium configured 789 to IAH up to daily during peak.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news ... d=11853158
Luxon also hinted at an additional USA destination and an East Coast South America destination (in other words Brazil).
''We are looking at the unique geography that New Zealand has and the unique aircraft technology we have today and that is increasingly coming to propel ourselves more into the midwest and east of North America and into the east coast of South America," he said.
Bye Bye Pac Rim policy finally!
Typically "The Midwest" is considered to be the following: Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota, Ohio, South Dakota and Wisconsin.
Illinois being the state where Chigago (ORD) is located. So the short odds would be on ORD being next along with a Brazil destination.


While AKL is geographically well-placed to act has a transit point between EZE (and other potential Latin American destinations) and Asian destinations such as SIN, HKG, NRT etc., NZ's schedules don't yet facilitate that - typically there are a long layovers in both directions. I assume that's because there's much more commercial value for NZ in ensuring good connectivity with Australia. But, couldn't routes like AKL-SIN (on either NZ or SQ) be retimed to connect with EZE-AKL? Could SQ's summer A380 be downsized to an A350/777-300ER or an NZ 787, so as to allow a third early morning flight?

Also, any thoughts as to whether SCL would be viable? I'm aware that one of NZ's criteria for choosing routes is having a partner at the destination, to facilitate onward connections. That would obviously be missing at SCL, a LATAM stronghold. However, ...

    Chile must have reasonable O&D traffic in its own right;
    NZ offers superb connectivity on to Australia (and, potentially/subject to the above, to Asia) - including beyond LATAM's existing SYD and future MEL destinations; and
    it seems there's a fair bit of demand of the route. During summer, LATAM has more than seven flights a week AKL-SCL doesn't it?

With LA operating multiple flights to SCL along with QF flying there too there isn't a lot of room for another player (especially without much feed at the SCL end). If it was just LA and only daily then NZ would probably do it.
The strategy is likely to be to build EZE and Brazil first and connecting to Asia then after that possibly SCL along with LIM.
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ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2017

Wed May 10, 2017 8:39 am

QF46 wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
NZ is upping EZE by 1 flight per week (up to 5 now in Peak Summer).
They are also going to send the new premium configured 789 to IAH up to daily during peak.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news ... d=11853158
Luxon also hinted at an additional USA destination and an East Coast South America destination (in other words Brazil).
''We are looking at the unique geography that New Zealand has and the unique aircraft technology we have today and that is increasingly coming to propel ourselves more into the midwest and east of North America and into the east coast of South America," he said.
Bye Bye Pac Rim policy finally!
Typically "The Midwest" is considered to be the following: Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota, Ohio, South Dakota and Wisconsin.
Illinois being the state where Chigago (ORD) is located. So the short odds would be on ORD being next along with a Brazil destination.


While AKL is geographically well-placed to act has a transit point between EZE (and other potential Latin American destinations) and Asian destinations such as SIN, HKG, NRT etc., NZ's schedules don't yet facilitate that - typically there are a long layovers in both directions. I assume that's because there's much more commercial value for NZ in ensuring good connectivity with Australia. But, couldn't routes like AKL-SIN (on either NZ or SQ) be retimed to connect with EZE-AKL? Could SQ's summer A380 be downsized to an A350/777-300ER or an NZ 787, so as to allow a third early morning flight?

Also, any thoughts as to whether SCL would be viable? I'm aware that one of NZ's criteria for choosing routes is having a partner at the destination, to facilitate onward connections. That would obviously be missing at SCL, a LATAM stronghold. However, ...

    Chile must have reasonable O&D traffic in its own right;
    NZ offers superb connectivity on to Australia (and, potentially/subject to the above, to Asia) - including beyond LATAM's existing SYD and future MEL destinations; and
    it seems there's a fair bit of demand of the route. During summer, LATAM has more than seven flights a week AKL-SCL doesn't it?



NZ are well aware that flights don't connect in both directions or at all to EZE from Asia, they Have said they would like to run 2 dailies to HKG/PVG/TYO, which they are working towards those 3 airports are slot restricted both NRT/HND. PVG had a second flight with less than desireable slots last NW and TYO is increasing aswell, HKG they need slots aswell to increase.

Not sure what they will do with SIN, to add a third daily it might be SQ adding a second by taking back the night flight and NZ going with a 1030 departure ex AKL returning at 1500 which is different to current long haul banks.

LAN are daily year round 789's to AKL, but I can't see NZ going there.
 
PA515
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2017

Wed May 10, 2017 5:29 pm

sunrisevalley wrote:
PER-MUC has a similar track to PER-DXB which has a conservative flight time typically of 11hrs. This would put PER-MUC at about 16hrs 30min. The 275 seat 789 should be good for about 31t payload for this sector time, which is max passenger plus a bit. Thus I think it would work. Also I believe PER-FRA would work.


Thanks Hugh.

For PER-MUC I deducted 75 min from the QF PER-LHR 789 time of 17 hrs 20 min (distance difference of 917km @ 457 knots = 65 min, plus 10 min for the LHR approach holds). Same for MUC-PER but without the additional 10 min. MUC seems to be a straight in approach.

With IAH getting 789s Air NZ will clearly be getting more than the four 275 seat aircraft ordered so far.

PA515
 
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sunrisevalley
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2017

Wed May 10, 2017 8:31 pm

PA515 wrote:
With IAH getting 789s Air NZ will clearly be getting more than the four 275 seat aircraft ordered so far.

If Brazil is added this would mean at least one more 789. I believe the 275 seat 789 would be good for 36 to 37t. payload out of GRU especially for an evening takeoff. If GIG is preferred an additional 4t. is likely.
 
ZKOJH
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2017

Thu May 11, 2017 2:23 pm

"Wellington Airport FY profit rises 29 per cent"

Wellington International Airport, the Infratil-controlled capital city gateway, posted a 29 per cent gain in full-year profit on growth in aeronautical and passenger services income.
Profit rose to $16.1 million in the 12 months ended March 31, from $12.5m a year earlier. Revenue climbed 5.3 per cent to $119.6m.

The capital city's airport company has almost completed the first stage of a $300m capital investment programme that has seen the domestic terminal expanded and upgraded, work start on a multi-level transport hub and a 4-star hotel and plans for an expanded international terminal. The programme includes plans to extend its runways to accommodate larger long-haul aircraft, although that has become bogged down by objections to the plans from the New Zealand Airline Pilots' Association, and a Supreme Court appeal date is now awaited.

Earnings are "expected to continue to increase, reflecting investment in route development, new and expanded airport facilities and services, growth in passenger numbers and scheduled aeronautical charges," chairman Tim Brown and chief executive Steven Sanderson said in a statement.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news ... d=11853959
Vietnam time..
 
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sunrisevalley
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2017

Thu May 11, 2017 3:53 pm

sunrisevalley wrote:
PA515 wrote:
With IAH getting 789s Air NZ will clearly be getting more than the four 275 seat aircraft ordered so far.

If Brazil is added this would mean at least one more 789. I believe the 275 seat 789 would be good for 36 to 37t. payload out of GRU especially for an evening takeoff. If GIG is preferred an additional 4t. is likely.

I should have added that I assume the 275 seat version will be the 254t MTOW version fitted with the RR TEN engine with its better fuel consumption. It is not clear to me whether the existing nine frames are this MTOW or whether they are the 250.8t version. Both factors make a material difference as the sector times get to 16hrs. +
 
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SXI899
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2017

Thu May 11, 2017 4:08 pm

sunrisevalley wrote:
It is not clear to me whether the existing nine frames are this MTOW or whether they are the 250.8t version.

According to the NZ Aircraft Register, all nine have a MCTOW of 244,944kgs.
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zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2017

Fri May 12, 2017 6:51 am

PA515 wrote:

With IAH getting 789s Air NZ will clearly be getting more than the four 275 seat aircraft ordered so far.



Don't they still hold purchase options for another 5-6 789s, at the original purchase price. I could be likely within the next 12months we could see these firmed up, it seems like 3x 789s/year has been an pretty good growth path for NZ.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2017

Fri May 12, 2017 7:03 am

zkncj wrote:
PA515 wrote:

With IAH getting 789s Air NZ will clearly be getting more than the four 275 seat aircraft ordered so far.



Don't they still hold purchase options for another 5-6 789s, at the original purchase price. I could be likely within the next 12months we could see these firmed up, it seems like 3x 789s/year has been an pretty good growth path for NZ.


Was 6 they exercised 1 a few weeks ago, I'd expect the remaining to probably be firmed up 1-2 at a time as required. I would say most of them will be the more premium layout replacing 772's on the longest routes.
 
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77west
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2017

Fri May 12, 2017 8:14 pm

Can the 244t versions be paper upgraded to the 250t or 254t option? There are no structural changes from what I understand, just what rating you buy from Boeing.
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ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2017

Sat May 13, 2017 12:15 am

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... e-changes/

CI changes from DEC 1st no more Tasman ex SYD to AKL/CHC, SYD goes A359 and increase to 14 weekly from 7 last NW, BNE daily with daily AKL service A333 from 5 weekly last year overall AKL reduces 10 to 7 weekly MEL-CHC 3 weekly A333 same as last year overall CHC reduces 6 to 3 weekly with end of SYD-CHC.

Interesting big increase to SYD, I expect about connections, they start LGW later in the year.
 
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sunrisevalley
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2017

Sat May 13, 2017 12:30 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
Was 6 they exercised 1 a few weeks ago, I'd expect the remaining to probably be firmed up 1-2 at a time as required. I would say most of them will be the more premium layout replacing 772's on the longest routes.


The recent one would have been from ALC's options not NZ's. I wonder when Boeing will get FAA EDTO> 180 approval for the 787/RR TEN combination. NZ will be looking for that otherwise under NZCAA rules requiring FAA approval they will be limited to EDTO 180 since I expect at least some of the deliveries later this year will be fitted with the TEN engine.
 
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sunrisevalley
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2017

Sat May 13, 2017 12:39 am

77west wrote:
Can the 244t versions be paper upgraded to the 250t or 254t option? There are no structural changes from what I understand, just what rating you buy from Boeing.

I have reason to believe that NZ are operating at 250.8t. They might find it advantageous to go to 254t for the 275-seaters.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2017

Sat May 13, 2017 6:59 am

https://globenewswire.com/news-release/ ... aland.html

You are right Sunrisevalley.

I wonder when NZ's options expire? I'd imagine they will use the 6 they have as needed not more than 1-2 at a time.

I would have thought NZ would have the highest rated engines on the 789 given some of the routes they fly.
 
QF46
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - May 2017

Sat May 13, 2017 8:08 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/272790/china-airlines-nw17-australia-new-zealand-service-changes/

CI changes from DEC 1st no more Tasman ex SYD to AKL/CHC, SYD goes A359 and increase to 14 weekly from 7 last NW, BNE daily with daily AKL service A333 from 5 weekly last year overall AKL reduces 10 to 7 weekly MEL-CHC 3 weekly A333 same as last year overall CHC reduces 6 to 3 weekly with end of SYD-CHC.

Interesting big increase to SYD, I expect about connections, they start LGW later in the year.


Any thoughts as to why there's no non-stop AKL-TPE service? The route's existed previously (served by NZ, at least), and the number of CI services across the Tasman suggests that the demand is there.

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