AA to increase 737 capacity

AA747123 · Fri Apr 28, 2017 10:58 pm

Just got out of a meeting and we were told that starting with the 737 max the AA 737s will go from 160 seats to 174. Not sure of the breakdown of F/Y. As other 737s cycle through service their seating will be increased as well.

DanDun · Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:02 pm

The only way they could add two more rows of seats in would be to decrease the size of first class. Or shrink the size of the aft lavs of the galley space/closet space in the front.

Austin787 · Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:07 pm

One possibility:
Add 1 row behind the exit row - brings the seat count to 166
Remove 1 row first, then add 2 rows in front of the exit row - brings the count to 174

sagechan · Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:19 pm

Taking an already uncomfortable plane and making it more uncomfortable. At least the MAXs wont have IFE boxes under the seat. Almost certainly F would go down to 12 for this.

So post MD80s:
E175/crj900 - 76 seats
A319 - 128
A320 - 150
738s - 174
32B - 181
321 - 187

Assuming the A321s eventually standardize. There is still a huge gap between the large regionals and smallest mainline.

cheapgreek · Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:21 pm

Remember AA's MRTC or "More Room Throughout Coach"? Those days are but a pleasant memory.

wn676 · Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:23 pm

If they took out a row of F and added 3 more rows of Y, that would bring them up to 174. So 12/162.

uberflieger · Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:24 pm

AA747123 wrote:
starting with the 737 max

When will the first 737 Max enter the fleet? Thanks

ILUVDC10S · Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:27 pm

So goes the AAirline with more room through out coach huh ? AA why ? why ? why ? Personally its a S80 or 757, 767 domestically on AA or no go !
Guess we are not something special in the air anymore huh ? MOOOOO! Giddy up cowboy its roundup time !

FlyUSAir · Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:29 pm

The A321's actually aren't that bad on AA, but that is basically the only domestic mainline aircraft I'll fly with them (along with the LUS A319's) after the S80, A320, 757, and 767 leave the fleet.

airliner371 · Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:33 pm

FlyUSAir wrote:
The A321's actually aren't that bad on AA, but that is basically the only domestic mainline aircraft I'll fly with them (along with the LUS A319's) after the S80, A320, 757, and 767 leave the fleet.

The LUS A319s are gone, they're all in AA configuration now.

ILUVDC10S wrote:
So goes the AAirline with more room through out coach huh ?

That title has been JetBlue's for a long time now.

INFINITI329 · Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:38 pm

sagechan wrote:
Taking an already uncomfortable plane and making it more uncomfortable. At least the MAXs wont have IFE boxes under the seat. Almost certainly F would go down to 12 for this.

So post MD80s:
E175/crj900 - 76 seats
A319 - 128
A320 - 150
738s - 174
32B - 181
321 - 187

Assuming the A321s eventually standardize. There is still a huge gap between the large regionals and smallest mainline.

This is why I don't understand why AA doesn't think they need a 100 seater.

Dominion301 · Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:46 pm

airliner371 wrote:
FlyUSAir wrote:
The A321's actually aren't that bad on AA, but that is basically the only domestic mainline aircraft I'll fly with them (along with the LUS A319's) after the S80, A320, 757, and 767 leave the fleet.

The LUS A319s are gone, they're all in AA configuration now.

ILUVDC10S wrote:
So goes the AAirline with more room through out coach huh ?

That title has been JetBlue's for a long time now.

Even B6 will soon be getting tighter on the 320s.

sagechan · Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:54 pm

INFINITI329 wrote:

This is why I don't understand why AA doesn't think they need a 100 seater.

I agree, i think if they had not had the 30 some A319s added to the US fleet a cs100/300 order would've made a lot of sense. Now with the old US + the new AA A319s thr CS300 doesnt make sense so youd have to justify a new fleet type for 1 segment that may need 50-70 frames at max. Though AA to LCY with the CS100 would be fun!

Jo8338 · Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:07 am

Unbelievable....... another step in the race to the bottom.

This is basically a war on elites making it harder to get upgraded.

ILUVDC10S · Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:11 am

Wonders if these Airline exec's actually sat in those coach class seats ever? And How tall are they ? this idea looks good on paper however terrible in reality ! I would like to get them all together and have then set side by side and sit there for over 8 hours and see how they are afterwards I think that by the time the 8 hour mark comes they would be at each others throat and feel what us passengers have felt for YEARS ! Oh and by the way You must be seated with your seat belt fastened until the seat belt sign is switched off LOL.

DDR · Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:12 am

Jo8338 wrote:
Unbelievable....... another step in the race to the bottom.

This is basically a war on elites making it harder to get upgraded.

No war. If you want a F seat, then buy a F ticket.

FlyUSAir · Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:14 am

airliner371 wrote:
FlyUSAir wrote:
The A321's actually aren't that bad on AA, but that is basically the only domestic mainline aircraft I'll fly with them (along with the LUS A319's) after the S80, A320, 757, and 767 leave the fleet.

The LUS A319s are gone, they're all in AA configuration now.

ILUVDC10S wrote:
So goes the AAirline with more room through out coach huh ?

That title has been JetBlue's for a long time now.

Don't ask me why but for some reason I found even with the same configuration the LUS A319's that they updated are more comfortable than the LAA A319's.

FlyUSAir · Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:15 am

DDR wrote:
Jo8338 wrote:
Unbelievable....... another step in the race to the bottom.

This is basically a war on elites making it harder to get upgraded.

No war. If you want a F seat, then buy a F ticket.

I'll PM you my next flights so you can purchase F tickets for me.

ILUVDC10S · Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:15 am

Makes me want to fly round the world on a SF-3! would be better than a 737 sardine uh smelt can!

USAirALB · Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:16 am

I'm willing to bet that IFE will be ripped out as the aircraft go in for modifications as well.

DDR · Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:20 am

FlyUSAir wrote:
DDR wrote:
Jo8338 wrote:
Unbelievable....... another step in the race to the bottom.

This is basically a war on elites making it harder to get upgraded.

No war. If you want a F seat, then buy a F ticket.

I'll PM you my next flights so you can purchase F tickets for me.

Sitting in F is not a right. Good grief.

Jo8338 · Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:21 am

During the More Room throughout coach years the capacity was 144. Crazy there will be 30 more seats.

wenders825 · Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:25 am

DDR wrote:
FlyUSAir wrote:
DDR wrote:

No war. If you want a F seat, then buy a F ticket.

I'll PM you my next flights so you can purchase F tickets for me.

Sitting in F is not a right. Good grief.

this. just like award space

if people are willing to pay why should the airline give it out for free? they are a business

Jo8338 · Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:28 am

During the More Room throughout coach years the capacity was 144. Crazy there will be 30 more seats.

Jo8338 · Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:29 am

wenders825 wrote:
DDR wrote:
FlyUSAir wrote:

I'll PM you my next flights so you can purchase F tickets for me.

Sitting in F is not a right. Good grief.

this. just like award space

if people are willing to pay why should the airline give it out for free? they are a business

Because these are the elites that actually keep the airlines afloat with the expensive last minute fare.

tphuang · Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:29 am

I don't know how much leg room for y class but they are definitely doing this because it's getting too easy for free upgrades. Rather than going to Delta route of selling more first class seats, they just reduce first class. Interesting.

DDR · Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:34 am

wenders825 wrote:
DDR wrote:
FlyUSAir wrote:

I'll PM you my next flights so you can purchase F tickets for me.

Sitting in F is not a right. Good grief.

this. just like award space

if people are willing to pay why should the airline give it out for free? they are a business

Exactly! F fares are lower than they used to be, but still enough to make a premium for the airline. More people are willing to pay for F than in previous years. No reason the airlines shouldn't sell every F seat that they can. It's not just AA, every airline in the U.S. is doing this. BTW, when I fly on my own dime, I buy a Y ticket. Kudos to those who can afford to fly in F, I certainly don't hold a grudge against them. They help make my airline profitable. Airlines aren't a charity.

AA623BDLSJU · Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:39 am

cheapgreek wrote:
Remember AA's MRTC or "More Room Throughout Coach"? Those days are but a pleasant memory.

Ohhhhh...I remember those days. I remember AA was giving away the extra seats as part of a contest to their employees.

Taco2sDay · Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:56 am

The USAir/Parkerization continues!

UA is in the toilet and DL is bumping toilet passengers! Damn, the US3 suck and it keeps getting worse! And the airlines don't understand why they are hated. Sure, they have a fiduciary duty to the stock holders, but the management is so incompetent! Doesn't say much for the stockholders hat keep re-electing these assholes. Another reason not to buy airline stocks!

kabq737 · Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:07 am

Ummm that is interesting. I have a close friend who will be flying the MAX for AA and he told me a seat count of 179 was to be expected. He probably memorized incorrectly. Either way thats tight.

MIflyer12 · Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:22 am

On AA, the focus on Main Cabin Extra (tm) shifts to Main Cabin Execrable.

BobPatterson · Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:29 am

Jo8338 wrote:
Unbelievable....... another step in the race to the bottom.

This is basically a war on elites making it harder to get upgraded.

That too, but it is primarily a war on the traveling public. Not just a class thing. Bottom line is king and the customer be damned.

Too bad it's not just an AA thing. The term legacy should not be used anymore.

cheapgreek · Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:47 am

ILUVDC10S wrote:
So goes the AAirline with more room through out coach huh ? AA why ? why ? why ? Personally its a S80 or 757, 767 domestically on AA or no go !
Guess we are not something special in the air anymore huh ? MOOOOO! Giddy up cowboy its roundup time !

Keep in mind who's running AA now. The Airways gang who had poor customer service and was the only major to charge for water for a time.

ahj2000 · Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:10 am

wn676 wrote:
If they took out a row of F and added 3 more rows of Y, that would bring them up to 174. So 12/162.

COnsidering 319s have 8J, that actually makes sense.

JAAlbert · Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:24 am

DDR wrote:
Jo8338 wrote:
Unbelievable....... another step in the race to the bottom.

This is basically a war on elites making it harder to get upgraded.

No war. If you want a F seat, then buy a F ticket.

Yes, and with fewer F seats available, and miserable conditions in the back, AA will be selling those F seats at a premium. Very clever and diabolical all at the same time! :devil:

727200 · Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:25 am

Jo8338 wrote:
Unbelievable....... another step in the race to the bottom.

This is basically a war on elites making it harder to get upgraded.

War on elites and upgrades? Only about 3% of passengers actually pay for F-class. Means 97% are looking for some type of free UG. I have never understood how an airline will give away its most expensive product for free and make no revenue off it.

afcjets · Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:25 am

I never considered the 737-800 a replacement for the 757 before.

jetblueguy22 · Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:41 am

Jo8338 wrote:
wenders825 wrote:
DDR wrote:

Sitting in F is not a right. Good grief.

this. just like award space

if people are willing to pay why should the airline give it out for free? they are a business

Because these are the elites that actually keep the airlines afloat with the expensive last minute fare.

We see this a lot on here. Elites always buying tickets last minute, but I'd really wonder how that can be the case anymore. Corporations have cut down big time on travel related expenses. A lot have placed restrictions on F and J travel. I highly doubt last minute bookings make up THAT much of an airlines revenue to where it makes a difference. Elites are being rewarded because they are loyal to an airline. It doesn't mean they book their tickets yesterday. Not all business travel is something that came out of the blue...

incitatus · Sat Apr 29, 2017 3:07 am

FlyUSAir wrote:

I'll PM you my next flights so you can purchase F tickets for me.

I have a friend who bought SFO-DFW roundtrip for $400 in F. Domestic F really does not seem very expensive these days.

tphuang · Sat Apr 29, 2017 3:12 am

jetblueguy22 wrote:
Jo8338 wrote:
wenders825 wrote:
this. just like award space

if people are willing to pay why should the airline give it out for free? they are a business

Because these are the elites that actually keep the airlines afloat with the expensive last minute fare.

We see this a lot on here. Elites always buying tickets last minute, but I'd really wonder how that can be the case anymore. Corporations have cut down big time on travel related expenses. A lot have placed restrictions on F and J travel. I highly doubt last minute bookings make up THAT much of an airlines revenue to where it makes a difference. Elites are being rewarded because they are loyal to an airline. It doesn't mean they book their tickets yesterday. Not all business travel is something that came out of the blue...

The upgrade rules dictate that of each elite levels, the ones who requested earliest will get upgraded first. Of course, that's until AA's new EQD rule come into affect of upgrades. All this means is that the earlier you buy your economy class seat, the earlier you get upgraded. Of course, the EQD rule will make it even more dependent on how much the member has spent. A more logical system.

Sure, it gives AA elite members a lot of free upgrades as long as they book those cheap economy fares early, but this ensures those elite flyer constantly pay more to fly on AA and OW allies.

Up to this point, I have avoided Delta like plague because they offer very few free upgrades and don't do any free upgrades on Delta One. But if AA reduces their First class availability, it's just another downgrade in their ff program after all the miles devaluations.

I guess I can either try America's most customer friendly airlines UA or go back to B6 after this.

alasizon · Sat Apr 29, 2017 3:36 am

With the way AA's current layout is, the removal of a row of first and shifting the seats around you would be able to get the two rows in without squeezing anyone too much (as I recall the bulkhead is currently 41 inches compared to the mandated 38). In order to add another row past that, you would have to chop off an inch of pitch off every single row or really get creative with the layout (if there is extra room in the forward galley that isn't needed on a given flight then that would be able to solve the issue). I don't think this will effect First Class income/availability for the most part on AA since 738s are typically usually right at 12-13 on most flights but if it gets as tight as the LAA 319 config, count me out. I enjoyed the 738 because even in the middle of coach, my legs weren't knocking the armrest in front of me.

Okcflyer · Sat Apr 29, 2017 3:50 am

AA's 738s (and -8s) will seat 8 more than United's slimline edition. United uses a 16J front cabin with a decent-sized Economy Plus cabin.

Assuming AA keeps the same A321 cabin on the neo, looks like the -8 Max will have a lower CASM compared to the 321neo, and certainly so below 2000nm. The A321 will <should> generate a slightly higher RASM from the larger front and MCE cabins.

For those that tend to lump the 738 and A320 in the "same size" bracket, this is one example that demostrates the 738 capacity is actually quite a bit larger (at least two rows physically). Reality is, it's about halfway sized between A320 and A321. I think this is one reason so many Airbus operators are going A321neo on this buying cycle, the A320 is just a little too small for economical optimum.

Interestingly enough, the new AA configuration is likely to be more roomy then legacy European carriers with their slimline, packed out stuffing of 180pax in the A320 (different J class offsets slightly)

grbauc · Sat Apr 29, 2017 3:56 am

Taco2sDay wrote:
The USAir/Parkerization continues!

UA is in the toilet and DL is bumping toilet passengers! Damn, the US3 suck and it keeps getting worse! And the airlines don't understand why they are hated. Sure, they have a fiduciary duty to the stock holders, but the management is so incompetent! Doesn't say much for the stockholders hat keep re-electing these assholes. Another reason not to buy airline stocks!

You have 16 posts welcome to flyertalk, I mean Anet...

grbauc · Sat Apr 29, 2017 3:58 am

Okcflyer wrote:
AA's 738s (and -8s) will seat 8 more than United's slimline edition. United uses a 16J front cabin with a decent-sized Economy Plus cabin.

Assuming AA keeps the same A321 cabin on the neo, looks like the -8 Max will have a lower CASM compared to the 321neo, and certainly so below 2000nm. The A321 will <should> generate a slightly higher RASM from the larger front and MCE cabins.

For those that tend to lump the 738 and A320 in the "same size" bracket, this is one example that demostrates the 738 capacity is actually quite a bit larger (at least two rows physically). Reality is, it's about halfway sized between A320 and A321. I think this is one reason so many Airbus operators are going A321neo on this buying cycle, the A320 is just a little too small for economical optimum.

Interestingly enough, the new AA configuration is likely to be more roomy then legacy European carriers with their slimline, packed out stuffing of 180pax in the A320 (different J class offsets slightly)

awesome post informative... :bigthumbsup:

Okcflyer · Sat Apr 29, 2017 3:58 am

I wonder if AA will retrofit SpaceBins during the cabin refresh? Lots of carryones will have to go underneath if not!

EA CO AS · Sat Apr 29, 2017 3:58 am

BobPatterson wrote:
Jo8338 wrote:
Unbelievable....... another step in the race to the bottom.

This is basically a war on elites making it harder to get upgraded.

That too, but it is primarily a war on the traveling public. Not just a class thing. Bottom line is king and the customer be damned.

Too bad it's not just an AA thing.

It's hardly a war on the traveling public; it's giving them exactly what they want - low fares, high frequency.

The public has been voting with their wallets since 1978, so we've had nearly 40 years of consumer behavior that has shaped the market accordingly.

grbauc · Sat Apr 29, 2017 4:07 am

BobPatterson wrote:
Jo8338 wrote:
Unbelievable....... another step in the race to the bottom.

This is basically a war on elites making it harder to get upgraded.

That too, but it is primarily a war on the traveling public. Not just a class thing. Bottom line is king and the customer be damned.

Too bad it's not just an AA thing. The term legacy should not be used anymore.

Just pay more and you'll get more. Look I love the old days. Back in the early to mid 90's I would buy a few months worth of tickets and then go in to the club room with all my paper tickets and a few hours later after I'd tip them $100 all my flights were upgraded. There was no upgrade Que back then. With has much energy spent complaining yikes. F fares today are about legacy coach fare prices of the 90's. That's why I now pay for First and I'll pay for E+ if its sold out or to much. With today prices I can fly anywhere in the County for $850-$1050.

Boeing778X · Sat Apr 29, 2017 4:11 am

To increase to 174 from 160 required three additional rows of Main Cabin and a reduction of one row of First.

May be a prudent move, assuming they keep MCE.

uberflieger · Sat Apr 29, 2017 4:15 am

Okcflyer wrote:
Assuming AA keeps the same A321 cabin

I'd say that's highly unlikely. There's a pattern.

9w748capt · Sat Apr 29, 2017 4:21 am

Jesus is this for real? Holy hell. Upgrades are hard enough as it is even with 16F - I find it hard to believe AA isn't selling a good chunk of those these days. Where the hell did the poster above come up with only 3% of F seats are sold? That is total and utter BS. 3% - hahahah that means less than 1 seat per 737 flight is actually sold - LMAO - not true.

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