US reportedly considering banning electronics from UK and other European countries

KTPAFlyer · Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:40 pm

Reports of a possible UK-US ban on electronics between the two countries are emerging. This would have huge ramifications on the NYC-LON market in particular and would have massive effects for both US and UK carriers. If this is true, then it looks like the past ban really was not targeted at the ME3, because this one will eat the US3 alive. Stay tuned...

https://www.google.com/amp/www.independ ... html%3Famp

Kikko19 · Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:42 pm

rest of the world will follow then...

PanzerPowner · Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:47 pm

Can't wait for the US3 to lobby this considering this is their best place to dump planes like the 75s and the 76s let alone AAs connection with BA.

Zachbt · Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:57 pm

Considering that the UK's security within airports is quite stringent, with the majority of passengers receiving full body scans, residue tests and strict on fluid allowances as well as the traditional X-Ray and pat down, I don't see the point, merica going cray

SeaKing4 · Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:05 pm

In today's Guardian Newspaper: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... k-airports

Also reported at airlive.net : http://www.airlive.net/alert-us-may-ban ... -airports/

I have just held back from booking a two week break to Florida. As if this ban goes ahead I will not travel to the USA. I can see a lot of lost revenue happening with this & that will bring misery to the Airlines that ply the Atlantic trade routes.

lesfalls · Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:05 pm

It means that aviation geeks will have to use their phones for pics now unfortounately.........

mercure1 · Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:12 pm

Considering the existing ban left open the big gap of people flying via 3rd countries to the US without experiencing limitations, its quite logical to expand the restriction to additional markets where which the threat might utilize.

Also lets not forget, this is not the first time. In 2006 the UK itself for a period banned even mobile phones from being carried onboard following the Transatlantic aircraft plot.

jfklganyc · Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:13 pm

If there's a ban, there's a ban.

After liquids ban, you and the flying public will adjust to anything.

And they'll still keep coming to the US

Sounds awful but it is true.

Jetty · Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:18 pm

Zachbt wrote:
Considering that the UK's security within airports is quite stringent, with the majority of passengers receiving full body scans, residue tests and strict on fluid allowances as well as the traditional X-Ray and pat down, I don't see the point, merica going cray

The UK has a relatively large number of muslim IS/AQAP supporters, which are the groups suspected to have developed a bomb hideable in electronic devices.

Stringent airport security is no criterium, as some countries to which the ban currently applies have that as well.

Kikko19 · Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:30 pm

what was the maximus size of a phone/ phablet allowed onboard? i'm not travelling to us, but i'm going to change my phone so i'd like to stay in the size considering i'll keep it for 3 years

thanks!

SeaKing4 · Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:42 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
If there's a ban, there's a ban.

After liquids ban, you and the flying public will adjust to anything.

And they'll still keep coming to the US

Sounds awful but it is true.

How wrong you are. I will not be told what I can & cannot take into an a/c cabin. I cannot buy insurance for electronics in the hold & I doubt anyone else can. I will vote with my feet. I simply will not travel to the USA, or anywhere else that introduces these senseless rules. Wether it's in the cabin or the hold & it's loaded with explosives set the go off during a flight, it's gong to go bang anyway. ( I spend 3 weeks per year in the US on 2 breaks at present) Let's face it. The US has the most to loose - business travellers, & pleasure travellers. The ME3 plus other Middle East markets have seen a severe turndown in travellers on routes to the US with the introduction of electronics restrictions. This will have a knock on effect in the US, hotels, travel, spending etc. Loses in the millions of US$. Can the US afford to loose this sort of income ?

blrsea · Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:54 pm

For multinational corporations, there is no way they are going to ban travel itself. They will adjust by having laptops either not have sensitive info, or encrypt them. Already many companies have bitlocker installed so that the data on the hard disk is protected.

In fact, this will be good for ME3 if electronics ban is externded to Europe and/or rest of world. Till now, the travellers were avoiding ME3 by flying non-ME3 carriers. Now that the playing field will be levelled, travellers will come back. Whether it will be extended or not needs to be seen though.

YIMBY · Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:04 pm

I may not believe that, but crazier things have happened.

IMO, a laptop or any battery powered device in cargo hold is more dangerous than in cabin, and I would support banning any batteries or battery operated devices in cargo (I thought that they have already been essentially forbidden). I cannot see a case how some terrorist could bring a bomb with a laptop in cabin so that he could not put that in the cargo. Maybe they have some idea that the terrorist will manually mix something in the battery.

I remember when I had to show to the security that my laptop really works by switching it on at the checkpoint. Wonder what would have happened if I had run out of energy before that.

Just a question: Do US authorities have power to tell UK security what to ban during the flight and what not? Or is there US security at the gate who has the authority?

alggag · Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:04 pm

Zachbt wrote:
Considering that the UK's security within airports is quite stringent, with the majority of passengers receiving full body scans, residue tests and strict on fluid allowances as well as the traditional X-Ray and pat down, I don't see the point, merica going cray

If AUH's preclearance wasn't good enough to avoid the ban then no amount of airport security is going to be stringent enough.

greg85 · Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:05 pm

Protecting freedom by taking it away. Soon we will be required to travel naked, just in case you use your clothes as a weapon.

eal · Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:12 pm

I doubt this is anything more than just conjecture-but where do you draw the line eventually? If the UK isn't safe, then what about France, Belgium, Germany? Terrorist can easily catch a connecting flight and put a bomb on a transcon from the Netherlands, Spain, Italy, etc. New security measures need to be put in place for laptops, not banning them out right-it becomes impossible to decide where the line must be drawn. When the shoe bomb attack happened we had to take off our shoes and put them through security-we didn't ban shoes on airplanes.

scbriml · Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:12 pm

SeaKing4 wrote:
I will not be told what I can & cannot take into an a/c cabin.

You already are whether consumer electronics are banned or not.

davies2911 · Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:23 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
If there's a ban, there's a ban.

After liquids ban, you and the flying public will adjust to anything.

And they'll still keep coming to the US

Sounds awful but it is true.

True about a few people sure. I won't. I will go so far as paying change fees for my Florida trip later this year and I'll go somewhere that isn't going to treat me like a potential terrorist based on my citizenship.

skipness1E · Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:27 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
If there's a ban, there's a ban.

After liquids ban, you and the flying public will adjust to anything.

And they'll still keep coming to the US

Sounds awful but it is true.

Except I won't. There is no way I am checking my electronic valuables into hold luggage, the risk is enormous, if not from theft, then simple mishandling.

mercure1 · Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:32 pm

I would say we are getting ever closer to the US suspending the visa waiver program.

Its unfortunate but too many bad people have access to easy entry to the US based on having passport nationality. Ability to avoid more rigorous vetting prior to travel is becoming a growing threat particularly from here in Europe.

ty97 · Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:35 pm

If the ban expands beyond the current limited countries to places like the UK, US airline profits and US tourism are going to take a hit. (European tourism from US travelers as well perhaps)

Egerton · Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:51 pm

Suggest that Boeing slow down the 777 line, as if true (it surely cannot be true) this anti-free trade nonsense will stuff the 777X.

Bricktop · Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:05 pm

If your business is that important to your company, a workaround will be found. Upload files to the cloud or put them on a thumb drive and use a computer locally at the other end, for example. And if you're taking a laptop on vacation, you're doing it wrong. If you absolutely cannot fly without your laptop, but you're so entitled that you'll actually consider not going somewhere because it's away from you a few hours, again you're doing it wrong. Yes, it's inconvenient, but so is being blown to pieces over the Atlantic.

FlyUSAir · Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:07 pm

Just ban humans from NYC-LON flights, cargo only. Problem solved.

JannEejit · Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:09 pm

Surely for the ban to be even moderately successful you'd need to extend it to every country on the planet that has a flight entering the USA ? How that scenario might pan out though is laughable !

KTPAFlyer · Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:15 pm

Bricktop wrote:
If your business is that important to your company, a workaround will be found. Upload files to the cloud or put them on a thumb drive and use a computer locally at the other end, for example. And if you're taking a laptop on vacation, you're doing it wrong. If you absolutely cannot fly without your laptop, but you're so entitled that you'll actually consider not going somewhere because it's away from you a few hours, again you're doing it wrong. Yes, it's inconvenient, but so is being blown to pieces over the Atlantic.

I'm going to guess you don't happen to have a company laptop. You also don't seem to realize the irony of the chance of being blown apart over the Atlantic because of a single rouge device vs. hundreds of lithium batteries sitting in the hold.

PanHAM · Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:18 pm

The more Notebooks and smart phones are flown in passengers luggage in the bellies of commerial jets, the higher will be the Chance that runaway batteries will bring an airliner down. A comination of careless packing inside a suitcase and careless handling by loaders will do it.

Theseus · Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:18 pm

Bricktop wrote:
If your business is that important to your company, a workaround will be found. Upload files to the cloud or put them on a thumb drive and use a computer locally at the other end, for example. And if you're taking a laptop on vacation, you're doing it wrong. If you absolutely cannot fly without your laptop, but you're so entitled that you'll actually consider not going somewhere because it's away from you a few hours, again you're doing it wrong. Yes, it's inconvenient, but so is being blown to pieces over the Atlantic.

If XYZ, you are doing it wrong.
If XYZ, you are doing it wrong.
If XYZ, you are doing it wrong.
You seem to have quite a universal experience of life, don't you ?

As noted above, one of the last (if not the last) attempt to blow a plane over the Atlantic was using a shoe. Yet, shoes have not been banned from aircraft cabins. Recent terrorist attacks in Europe have used cars or trucks, and we have not seen these banned either. So what is going on with "electronics" and "flights to the US" ?

StTim · Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:18 pm

Those who say people will travel anyway are wrong. Some will where they have no choice/don't care. Many will choose not to travel.

The US has been off my list of holiday destinations for many years due to feeling like a criminal at entry with a mug shot and finger prints being taken.

I have however gone for business. Now I would turn that down.

LAXdude1023 · Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:26 pm

Frankly, I hope this bites us in the rear end economically. The Trump administration has taken this country in a very dark direction and America will not wake up until we see the ramifications of policies like this.

KTPAFlyer · Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:35 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
Frankly, I hope this bites us in the rear end economically. The Trump administration has taken this country in a very dark direction and America will not wake up until we see the ramifications of policies like this.

Yup, it's going to get worse before it gets better.

Mortyman · Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:40 pm

So I can't bring my DSLR camera with me ... ? What about People With Medical machines like CPAP etc ?

Bricktop · Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:48 pm

Theseus wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
If your business is that important to your company, a workaround will be found. Upload files to the cloud or put them on a thumb drive and use a computer locally at the other end, for example. And if you're taking a laptop on vacation, you're doing it wrong. If you absolutely cannot fly without your laptop, but you're so entitled that you'll actually consider not going somewhere because it's away from you a few hours, again you're doing it wrong. Yes, it's inconvenient, but so is being blown to pieces over the Atlantic.

If XYZ, you are doing it wrong.
If XYZ, you are doing it wrong.
If XYZ, you are doing it wrong.
You seem to have quite a universal experience of life, don't you ?

As noted above, one of the last (if not the last) attempt to blow a plane over the Atlantic was using a shoe. Yet, shoes have not been banned from aircraft cabins. Recent terrorist attacks in Europe have used cars or trucks, and we have not seen these banned either. So what is going on with "electronics" and "flights to the US" ?

Theseus, not a universal experience of life, a very personal experience of life. So yes it's a shocker, these are my opinions. My posting your opinions would be redundant, no? And while A-net is full of armchair airline CEO's, it seems it's also full of armchair security chiefs as well. Of course I am aware of the shoe bomber. Why do you think we have to take our shoes off now? Or have limited liquids. But we somehow manage to deal with it.

I think what they need is not a laptop ban, but a separate security line for everyone who wants to bring a laptop on board, so they can open them, power them up and show them working. And charge them a $50 fee to cover the costs. After all, what's a few bucks in expense to those oh-so-important people who absolutely positively need their laptops with them?

airbazar · Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:53 pm

The irony of this ridiculous ban is that more people have been killed by "electronics" in the cargo hold of airplanes than by electronics in the cabin.

LAXdude1023 · Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:58 pm

airbazar wrote:
The irony of this ridiculous ban is that more people have been killed by "electronics" in the cargo hold of airplanes than by electronics in the cabin.

Yep. This, exactly.

SCQ83 · Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:04 pm

I think European leisure travel would be hit the most. Business people will need to travel like it or not, but tourists will have other friendlier choices.

mercure1 wrote:
I would say we are getting ever closer to the US suspending the visa waiver program.

I doubt this will ever happen. The tourism industry in some cities like New York would collapse. European tourism would just vanish.

smallvoyageur · Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:07 pm

mercure1 wrote:
I would say we are getting ever closer to the US suspending the visa waiver program.

Its unfortunate but too many bad people have access to easy entry to the US based on having passport nationality. Ability to avoid more rigorous vetting prior to travel is becoming a growing threat particularly from here in Europe.

With the European Parliament voting only last month a resolution to introduce visas to US nationals to the Schengen zone countries. This is due to non-removal of visas to Poland, Croatia, Romania, Bulgaria and Cyprus. http://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-us ... SKBN1691Q9

Dark clouds are certainly coming.

bgm · Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:07 pm

Bricktop wrote:
Theseus wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
If your business is that important to your company, a workaround will be found. Upload files to the cloud or put them on a thumb drive and use a computer locally at the other end, for example. And if you're taking a laptop on vacation, you're doing it wrong. If you absolutely cannot fly without your laptop, but you're so entitled that you'll actually consider not going somewhere because it's away from you a few hours, again you're doing it wrong. Yes, it's inconvenient, but so is being blown to pieces over the Atlantic.

If XYZ, you are doing it wrong.
If XYZ, you are doing it wrong.
If XYZ, you are doing it wrong.
You seem to have quite a universal experience of life, don't you ?

As noted above, one of the last (if not the last) attempt to blow a plane over the Atlantic was using a shoe. Yet, shoes have not been banned from aircraft cabins. Recent terrorist attacks in Europe have used cars or trucks, and we have not seen these banned either. So what is going on with "electronics" and "flights to the US" ?

Theseus, not a universal experience of life, a very personal experience of life. So yes it's a shocker, these are my opinions. My posting your opinions would be redundant, no? And while A-net is full of armchair airline CEO's, it seems it's also full of armchair security chiefs as well. Of course I am aware of the shoe bomber. Why do you think we have to take our shoes off now? Or have limited liquids. But we somehow manage to deal with it.

I think what they need is not a laptop ban, but a separate security line for everyone who wants to bring a laptop on board, so they can open them, power them up and show them working. And charge them a $50 fee to cover the costs. After all, what's a few bucks in expense to those oh-so-important people who absolutely positively need their laptops with them?

You really have a chip on your shoulder, don't you?

For me the issue is not having the laptop/iPad in the cabin, it's the risk of it being damaged/stolen. As others have said, most insurance policies don't cover damage or theft in this situation.

StarAC17 · Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:10 pm

eal wrote:
I doubt this is anything more than just conjecture-but where do you draw the line eventually? If the UK isn't safe, then what about France, Belgium, Germany? Terrorist can easily catch a connecting flight and put a bomb on a transcon from the Netherlands, Spain, Italy, etc. New security measures need to be put in place for laptops, not banning them out right-it becomes impossible to decide where the line must be drawn. When the shoe bomb attack happened we had to take off our shoes and put them through security-we didn't ban shoes on airplanes.

I travel quite a bit (I'm sure many of you way more) but the US is the only country in recent years that I have had to take my shoes off at security. I have been through FRA, LHR, LIS, MUC, MEL, SYD, AKL, YYZ etc and never have been told to take my shoes off at security. It is strictly as US thing in my experience, it wasn't at first but it is now.

Bricktop wrote:
If your business is that important to your company, a workaround will be found. Upload files to the cloud or put them on a thumb drive and use a computer locally at the other end, for example. And if you're taking a laptop on vacation, you're doing it wrong. If you absolutely cannot fly without your laptop, but you're so entitled that you'll actually consider not going somewhere because it's away from you a few hours, again you're doing it wrong. Yes, it's inconvenient, but so is being blown to pieces over the Atlantic.

I can somewhat agree with not taking a laptop on vacation but I have taken mine when in California last year as we did not have all our hotels booked and the laptop was useful to do that over using just your phone. Also there are movies and other entertainment that can be useful on vacation especially if you are going as a family with kids.

Now regarding work, what if that person needs to finish something on a 7 hour TATL flight in the day time. They might as well complete the work on the flight, I mean what else is there to do.

Furthermore if there was an explosive electronic device on board it would more than likely be able to be remote detonated by blue-tooth from the cabin transmitting to the cargo hold. Also more than likely anyone sophisticated to come up with a concoction like this probably knows where exactly the bags are and will get a seat right above them.

BobbyPSP · Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:17 pm

It'll be a nightmare to manage but if they're going to force you to check your electronics, then they should be declared, noted and covered for theft and damage. I think this is what concerns folks most as right now you're SOLif they go missing or damaged.

Bricktop · Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:24 pm

bgm wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
Theseus wrote:

If XYZ, you are doing it wrong.
If XYZ, you are doing it wrong.
If XYZ, you are doing it wrong.
You seem to have quite a universal experience of life, don't you ?

As noted above, one of the last (if not the last) attempt to blow a plane over the Atlantic was using a shoe. Yet, shoes have not been banned from aircraft cabins. Recent terrorist attacks in Europe have used cars or trucks, and we have not seen these banned either. So what is going on with "electronics" and "flights to the US" ?

Theseus, not a universal experience of life, a very personal experience of life. So yes it's a shocker, these are my opinions. My posting your opinions would be redundant, no? And while A-net is full of armchair airline CEO's, it seems it's also full of armchair security chiefs as well. Of course I am aware of the shoe bomber. Why do you think we have to take our shoes off now? Or have limited liquids. But we somehow manage to deal with it.

I think what they need is not a laptop ban, but a separate security line for everyone who wants to bring a laptop on board, so they can open them, power them up and show them working. And charge them a $50 fee to cover the costs. After all, what's a few bucks in expense to those oh-so-important people who absolutely positively need their laptops with them?

You really have a chip on your shoulder, don't you?

For me the issue is not having the laptop/iPad in the cabin, it's the risk of it being damaged/stolen. As others have said, most insurance policies don't cover damage or theft in this situation.

No chip, bgm. I even offered a solution to the laptop ban that doesn't involve checking it. Chill.

readytotaxi · Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:24 pm

mercure1 wrote:
I would say we are getting ever closer to the US suspending the visa waiver program.

Its unfortunate but too many bad people have access to easy entry to the US based on having passport nationality. Ability to avoid more rigorous vetting prior to travel is becoming a growing threat particularly from here in Europe.

I agree that this is a possible outcome but the knock on effect to the US economy would be staggering. Just take MCO for example, you could probably slash in half the volume of people willing to go through the Visa process from the UK to get in. Airlines would be tearing their hair out and lobbying government for a change.
Hope it does not happen but I think all options are open, as they are with North Korea. My :twocents:

KTPAFlyer · Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:42 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
Hope it does not happen but I think all options are open, as they are with North Korea. My

bgm · Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:00 pm

BobPatterson wrote:
SeaKing4 wrote:
I have just held back from booking a two week break to Florida. As if this ban goes ahead I will not travel to the USA.

Why? How would this discommode your trip?

By having to risk losing/damaging thousands of dollars worth of electronic equipment that would have to be checked in. US baggage handlers are known for their sticky fingers, especially at big airports like JFK/LAX etc.

cv990Coronado · Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:27 pm

Could there really be a security risk, the details of which are being hidden from us? If so then perhaps it is the way to go. The airlines have a choice, put into effect serious measures to protect personal baggage in the hold or risk saying goodbye to many customers. I can see that all these devices with lithium batteries in the hold and close to each other are a big fire risk. What would stop a suicide bomber activating one of these with a mobile phone in flight while on board? Basically, you are going to make travel so inconvenient and personally so intrusive that many sane people will look for other options. For business travellers perhaps more video conferencing, for leisure ones anoher destination perhaps. As has been mentioned maybe Boeing needs to slow down on the 777X? I would say ditto to other Boeing and Airbus products too.

hvusslax · Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:31 pm

The US authorities are just doing their part in decreasing CO2 emissions from aviation.

SmithAir747 · Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:44 pm

I have travelled a lot between the US and London over the last 13 years (most recently, January 2016), because of my education and work in the field of craniofacial anomalies research (I went to uni in London 2004-2007 and began my work there). Often I have had to take a laptop (for my work mainly), plus I am an avid photographer (I use a Canon 300D DSLR, which I prefer obviously over using a phone's "camera"). As a person with severe obstructive sleep apnea (OSA), I use a CPAP machine, which MUST travel everywhere I go. The laptop (when I take it), my camera, and my CPAP always travel in carry-on luggage, never in the hold (due to potential for breakage or theft).

London is my favourite overseas destination (from my current home in the USA), and I am thinking of taking another trip to London sometime this year both for nostalgia and for my craniofacial awareness and research work.

I wonder what this will mean for me as I carry my DSLR and CPAP (and maybe my smaller laptop), on my next potential trip to London (maybe this year). Could I be forced to check all this in the hold, and risk mishandling and theft?

As an alternative to the hassle that flying has descended into, the Cunard Queen Mary 2 looks awfully attractive to me more and more now...

SmithAir747

Planesmart · Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:49 pm

My 5 cents worth.

We are all going to die sometime. Me, based on age, much sooner than most here.

If the USA is concerned about citizen safety, energy could far more successfully be devoted to policies and action to reduce motor vehicle and firearm deaths.

Any coincidence there was a five eyes meeting in NZ late last week? Presumably members were asked / instructed to 100% reflect US initiatives, hence the threat by the US to impose restrictions on NZ, Australia and the UK, unless they fall into line.

cedarjet · Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:03 pm

Couple of things: 1. the publicly stated threat is from laptops that will switch on yet contain a bomb. They are not being checked in to allow closer inspection, it's thought that a laptop bomb could be undetectable and when they explode, being in the hold means they are less likely to bring down the plane. 2. A laptop is a powerful creative tool and the patronising "if you're taking it on holiday you're doing it wrong" angle just shows some people don't understand the potential of the age they're living in. I take my laptop on holiday because I use it for making music, editing video, designing graphics, writing blogs, magazine articles and books. If I owned a camera I'd be using it for photo editing and sharing. I would be unlikely to travel somewhere without it in my possession. I was going to fly on QR's DOH-MIA on a recent trip but because of the laptop ban I went to a civilised country instead: Japan.

Bricktop · Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:25 pm

cedarjet wrote:
2. A laptop is a powerful creative tool and the patronising "if you're taking it on holiday you're doing it wrong" angle just shows some people don't understand the potential of the age they're living in. I take my laptop on holiday because I use it for making music, editing video, designing graphics, writing blogs, magazine articles and books.

As the author of that comment, I'm sorry if it came across as patronizing. That was not my intent. And you make a valid point on the usages you discuss. Forgive my oldfartiness, those uses weren't on my radar because well, oldfart.

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