Airports in desperate need of more gates

globalcabotage · Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:09 am

Topic speaks for itself.

ORD: AA, UA, LCCs, and DL; will it happen?
DAL: unfortunately, can't happen
MDW: where?
LGA/JFK/EWR: work in progress
YYZ: Could use a 40 gate transborder terminal
ATL: DL can never have too many gates
LAX: all airlines
SEA: DL and AS
DCA: add gates, but no slots
LHR: never enough, but no slots

planespotter20 · Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:14 am

I only know mostly about ORD, and I can see it happening.. there is a 9 gate T5 (international) expansion going on, as well as a T3 AA 5 gate expansion. There were talks of a T2 redevelopment, and adding more concourses, but more details on that by the end of the year I think.

MIflyer12 · Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:18 am

There's upgauging, and there's gate utilization. End gate-squating - turn them into CUTE gates. Compare passengers per day per date at LHR versus the airports mentioned by the OP.

KTPAFlyer · Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:23 am

AUH.

Suffice to say the Midfield complex is coming, but it can't come soon enough. EY will become competitive when it opens, but until it opens AUH desperately needs more gates. Have you seen how many planes they park on the harstand!?!

On a side note, I can never understand why DXB and DOH always have a bunch of planes parked on the tarmac even when the terminal is completely empty. They don't have a shortage of gates during off peak times so I don't know what they're excuse is.

TheFlyingDisk · Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:23 am

You know what could easily solve this problem? American airlines buying A380s :duck:

FlyUSAir · Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:26 am

DAL, but not going to happen due to political reasons and good ol' AA over at DFW.

aerorobnz · Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:31 am

AKL - plenty more slots, but insufficient gates at both international and domestic terminals. Totally inadequate.

FWAERJ · Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:34 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
There's upgauging, and there's gate utilization. End gate-squating - turn them into CUTE gates. Compare passengers per day per date at LHR versus the airports mentioned by the OP.

Going to CUTE is what FWA did a few years ago when there was gate gridlock and they handled 550,000 pax/year. FWA didn't want to add gates during the Great Recession, so they installed a CUTE system.

They're now on their second CUTE system, and today, FWA is a 720,000 pax/year airport with much more efficient gate utilization. Only now are they talking about adding more gates because of the evening arrival/early morning departure rushes (though SkyWest flights don't RON at the gates because they have an MX base at FWA). In the meantime, upgauging is the new name of the game at FWA. AA's DFW and CLT flights have been upgauged, and I expect DL to upgauge ATL as soon as SkyWest is ready to maintain the larger CRJs at FWA. And if UA adds DEN, watch it be a SkyWest CR7.

atimp · Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:35 am

Here in PHX eight more gates are being put in for Southwest and then Sky Harbor will be at full capacity.

winginit · Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:56 am

LAX is grossly oversubscribed. Will be interesting to watch the customs and border patrol facilities meltdown this summer due to the increased capacity.

VS4ever · Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:36 am

BOS - Terminal E is tapped out at peak time, needs more gates, currently 12 project planned to add 7 more in 2 phases, but not started yet.. With DL wanting to regain control of Terminal A in it's entirety (21 gates) and Terminal C primarily controlled by B6 (27 gates). Terminal B definitely could do with more gates to allow expansion (37 gates), where you would put them, however i do not know.

wedgetail737 · Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:47 am

SEA really needs international gates. The N concourse construction is well underway.

boilerla · Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:49 am

winginit wrote:
LAX is grossly oversubscribed. Will be interesting to watch the customs and border patrol facilities meltdown this summer due to the increased capacity.

CPB meltdown? Heck we'll be lucky if CPB agents can even get into work, the way the upper roadway is lately. 7am on a Thursday in April (last week) and I had to take arrivals to make my flight. Departures on-ramp was backed up to Lincoln. Imagine that in July on a Monday...

But yes CPB is bad; waits of 2 hours are pretty common for non-US passport holders.

dc10lover · Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:52 am

winginit wrote:
LAX is grossly oversubscribed. Will be interesting to watch the customs and border patrol facilities meltdown this summer due to the increased capacity.

LAX is a joke. Officials want everyone to use LAX.

ITB · Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:54 am

DCA is rather pinched. Construction of the new terminal for American Airlines regionals will kick off this summer or early fall. When complete, DCA will have 14 more gates with jet bridges.

zkncj · Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:55 am

aerorobnz wrote:
AKL - plenty more slots, but insufficient gates at both international and domestic terminals. Totally inadequate.

Agreed - using bus operations for A380 services is beyond an joke.

alasizon · Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:13 am

atimp wrote:
Here in PHX eight more gates are being put in for Southwest and then Sky Harbor will be at full capacity.

Not really, T3S is coming along as well and will provide breathing room and then after that there is always the West Terminal Project which would be another 30ish gates. That being said PHX is in a desperate need for international capable gates.

The need in the US for the most part is not gates but rather short term parking spaces due to the bank structures and fleet utilization. Many airports could use a few gates but aren't in desperate need (LGA, BOS, ORD withstanding).

LAX needs better facilities first before it can support more operations.
SEA is already in the process of adding gates and the actual city itself doesn't need more gates for O&D but rather for the connections and Alaska's own hub structuring and scheduling
SAN could use a few gates soon to alleviate peak issues, but nothing desperate
ATL doesn't need gates unless they are going to someone not named DL (for the sake of competition)

ODwyerPW · Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:48 am

DAL. Let it go back to 32 gates and let WN have 30 of them. Just let it happen...end of story.

slcdeltarumd11 · Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:07 am

RKV that airport was never designed to be a multi airline hub. They desperately need gates. Iceland tourism is booming plus they are connecting like Neve before.

Den both united and Southwest want gates.
SLC needs more mainline sized gates but that is being handled in the new terminal plans.

The slot restricted airports all the airlines pretty much want more gates and slots sna, lgb, LGA, DCA but they ain't gonna get em.

CARST · Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:22 am

Couldn't we add about nearly every major hub in the world to this list? With many of the second tier airports also being contenders?

Where (except for China) you don't have NIMBYs lobbying against new or expended airports? Infrastructure investments in most First World countries have come to a total stop, due do constant fights about them in court, nature conservation, noise, traffic and others reasons. The times when infrastructure projects were seen as the natural consequence of a growing economy are long gone and thus this situation is present at nearly every airport except Denver with its gazillion of runways...

Jerseyguy · Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:28 am

While I won't say it necessarily needs more gates Trenton, NJ (TTN) definitely needs more gate/terminal space and when they get more space it might increase interest for more airlines and then they'd need more gates. As CARST said, we (along with alot of airports) have a NIMBY problem which might be coming to an end as they are in settlement negotions with the FAA at present.

airplan727 · Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:18 am

DEN needs more gates as well. I know some were recently added for SW on Concourse C, but UA is also rapidly outgrowing Concourse B. They have started to have 1 departure from A and added 2 ridiculously long jet bridges to the end of B in order to get 2 additional gates. They still need some more. Probably get rid of some of the UAX concourse and remodel that for mainline.

ZKSUJ · Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:32 am

I'm here to vote for AKL. Poor planning and future proofing, not uncommon to see aircraft hold for gates on a daily basis, and to have taxiways constantly closed for aircraft parking. Yes it might hapen elsewhere but this is AKL, a far stretch from the traffic volumes of the major hubs

jfklganyc · Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:59 am

EWR (without slots)
DAL
LAX
ORD
FLL!!

EK413 · Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:32 am

SYD - Over 19 bus bays! Airport saturated during morning peak with A380's utilising the Freight terminal many occasions!

MEL - Terrible planning & no future plans in the pipeline?

EK413

ahj2000 · Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:16 pm

They are coming (slowly) but CLT needs more gates (and gate lounge space, but not much they can do about that right now...)

GSPSPOT · Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:19 pm

MKE... is/should NOT on this list. But I understand we have full utilization with RONs at least!

klm617 · Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:29 pm

ATL: DL can never have too many gates

Flow more connections over other hubs in your system problem solved.

Flyingabout · Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:38 pm

My worst ever airport experience was in Treviso (LCC alternative to Venice, Italy). A woefully small waiting area that was cramped if any more than 2 flights were departing at similar times. Then when your flight is called, you have to walk to the corner of the room, down an escalator and into what can only be described as a warehouse with multiple exits (so-called gates) onto the apron.

Perhaps my experience was unique, but I remember that about 4 or 5 gates announced their boarding at the same time, resulting in 600 odd passengers all moving from the "shops" area to the escalator. It was actually dangerous, as the beginnings of a crowd crush was taking place at the bottom of the escalator due to the bottleneck design, and people were shouting back up to stop coming down the stairs. It really felt like we were treated as cattle, and I swore never to use the airport or airline again. Truly an accident waiting to happen.

ty97 · Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:55 pm

AUS is tapped out and needs more gates, but they are working on that.

LGA doesn't really need more gates, it needs more runways/slots (which would then mean it would need more gates) but that ain't going to happen.

mozart · Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:04 pm

Frankfurt. Faaar too many bus transfer. T3 is being built, but won't open before some time.

Berlin TXL. Operating at several times (?) its capacity.

Geneva, not enough gates in the French sector and the widebody non-Schengen sector.

Milan LIN. Out of all the mainly-mainline-operations airports I cannot think of another one where the bus-to-gate ratio is so bad.

Istanbul.

London LCY. No jetways at all.

Lisbon.

DeltaRules · Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:15 pm

CMH has A1 (no jetway, but surprised WN hasn't hooked one up yet) and A7 (ramp level), B36, and C46-49 (48 is ramp level) available. That's it.

FlyingSicilian · Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:35 pm

CTA could use more. The "new" (coming up on 10 yrs) terminal, while nice, is already at capacity many days and the bus transfers, while more common in Europe, are getting so common hardstands are filling up too.

Clipper136 · Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:48 pm

MCO!
About to break ground on initial expansion.
16/23 swing gates in phase 1 Terminal C.

bfitzflyer · Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:52 pm

SFO even after terminal 1 is complete it is going to continue to be very tight.

2travel2know2 · Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:55 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
FLL!!

IMHO, FLL seems to have the gates, just not in the terminals where they're badly needed.
Even with the new terminal gates, PTY won't have enough gates/jetways to properly support CM hub several times per day.

intothinair · Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:57 pm

DPS! I dont beleive they have more than 12 gates and neither do they have sufficient space for remote parking. The simple solution? Parking 2 planes at a gate behind each other! Genius and occurs everyday. With an anticipated 23 million pax this year, surely this has to rank as one of the airports globally with the highest passenger arrival to gate ratios in the world.

Cheers,
intothinair

lhpdx · Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:06 pm

PDX is getting a 6 gate extension on CC-E................................

United787 · Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:10 pm

planespotter20 wrote:
I only know mostly about ORD, and I can see it happening.. there is a 9 gate T5 (international) expansion going on, as well as a T3 AA 5 gate expansion. There were talks of a T2 redevelopment, and adding more concourses, but more details on that by the end of the year I think.

I thought the T5 expansion is still awaiting approval & funding, no?

Also, the T3 expansion has some construction permits issued but has work begun? We have yet to see any plans which is odd for a public works project.

Source: http://chicago.curbed.com/2017/1/20/143 ... ction-news

Some larger permits have been issued within the past month, assuming the address is referenced for this is tagged correctly.

masgniw · Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:16 pm

boilerla wrote:
7am on a Thursday in April (last week) and I had to take arrivals to make my flight. Departures on-ramp was backed up to Lincoln. Imagine that in July on a Monday.

I always use the arrivals level at LAX. They even have electronic sign boards telling you to do so. I always point and laugh at people waiting in line for the departures deck.

Devilfish · Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:22 pm

M N L

skipness1E · Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:29 pm

Not sure Heathrow has a massive shortage of gates nowadays. It gets tight on occasion but T5 was a massive game changer in that regard, the bad old days of regular queues at all times of the day have gone.
Edinburgh REALLY needs more gates, frankly it needs a rebuild from the ground up.

sassiciai · Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:41 pm

MNL needs more gates?

Well, maybe, but it needs way more of loads of things before worrying too much about gates

To have too many people trying to get through too few gates, you need to make it possible for people to get to and from the airport, something that makes MNL one of the worst airports I know of, and that I use quite regularly! A journey to the airport is at the mercy of the general Manila traffic. A journey from the airport is becoming ever more horrible as taxis are ever more difficult to get!

Once you get people into the terminals, through the check-in process, through the gate and onto the plane, you then need runway capacity to get the plane airborne and en route. Something notoriously difficult to achieve at NAIA!

There have been so many "projects" to improve the Manila airport situation - but I dont thing one spade has been used yet to begin any of them!

Devilfish · Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:27 pm

sassiciai wrote:
MNL needs more gates?

Haven't you waited impatiently in the boarding area at T2 or T3 while a big widebody unloads its passengers, or sat in the plane interminably because the jetbridge was still being used for boarding?

sassiciai wrote:
To have too many people trying to get through too few gates, you need to make it possible for people to get to and from the airport, something that makes MNL one of the worst airports I know of, and that I use quite regularly!

I'm guessing you haven't been driven over this yet.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJKHuak6 ... _JQdafttEr

.....or crossed over this.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woDVKvRFABU

sassiciai wrote:
A journey to the airport is at the mercy of the general Manila traffic. A journey from the airport is becoming ever more horrible as taxis are ever more difficult to get!

But I think you've known that all along. Comes with being part of the "developing" world.

sassiciai wrote:
Once you get people into the terminals, through the check-in process, through the gate and onto the plane, you then need runway capacity to get the plane airborne and en route. Something notoriously difficult to achieve at NAIA!

I'd say near impossible. Though that has been long established.

AM744 · Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:32 pm

GDL
SJD

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theSFOspotter · Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:05 pm

SFO. The H concourse will be built behind the G concourse with something like 6 international gates. The new QX flights will be departing off stands. The new B concourse will have 19 gates and 6 will be swing gates for international narrow/widebodies. As of today all SEA bound AS flights depart T2. That will open up some gates in A as of now.

Bostrom · Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:27 pm

skipness1E wrote:
Not sure Heathrow has a massive shortage of gates nowadays. It gets tight on occasion but T5 was a massive game changer in that regard, the bad old days of regular queues at all times of the day have gone.
Edinburgh REALLY needs more gates, frankly it needs a rebuild from the ground up.

Totally agree with you on Edinburgh! It could use a couple of more gates. And maybe a railway station as well.

Regarding Heathrow I'd say that it needs a new runway more than it needs more gates.

jetmatt777 · Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:32 pm

airplan727 wrote:
DEN needs more gates as well. I know some were recently added for SW on Concourse C, but UA is also rapidly outgrowing Concourse B. They have started to have 1 departure from A and added 2 ridiculously long jet bridges to the end of B in order to get 2 additional gates. They still need some more. Probably get rid of some of the UAX concourse and remodel that for mainline.

Those two gates (B11, B14) were built to accommodate gate closures for concrete repairs to the B gates over the next two years. The airport has a very bad sinking problem, with the building sinking in to the ground and thus the concrete ramp areas for the gates are falling apart.

B42 and B44 are going to be closed for 4 months starting in May for concrete replacement and repairs. Not sure which 2 gates will be closed next after that.

Dominion301 · Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:17 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
There's upgauging, and there's gate utilization. End gate-squating - turn them into CUTE gates. Compare passengers per day per date at LHR versus the airports mentioned by the OP.

Well that's true of most US airports. However YYZ is 100% CUTE and is reaching its breaking point. Interim solution would be to re-open the infield terminal.

As for lacking gates, I'm surprised nobody's mentioned KEF yet.

Kden95 · Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:18 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
airplan727 wrote:
DEN needs more gates as well. I know some were recently added for SW on Concourse C, but UA is also rapidly outgrowing Concourse B. They have started to have 1 departure from A and added 2 ridiculously long jet bridges to the end of B in order to get 2 additional gates. They still need some more. Probably get rid of some of the UAX concourse and remodel that for mainline.

Those two gates (B11, B14) were built to accommodate gate closures for concrete repairs to the B gates over the next two years. The airport has a very bad sinking problem, with the building sinking in to the ground and thus the concrete ramp areas for the gates are falling apart.

B42 and B44 are going to be closed for 4 months starting in May for concrete replacement and repairs. Not sure which 2 gates will be closed next after that.

So are those gates temporary once the concrete work is done. I also read that they are adding more gates to the A concourse.

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