PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:

kitplane01 wrote:

This is a great example of how the EAS program can make things worse. The closest non-EAS airport to Iron Mountain and Escanaba is Sawyer, and non-subsidized Sawyer is losing traffic to these subsidized flights. Therefore I get less options when flying. Even worse, I need to drive an extra hour to get to one of the subsidized airports, and the subsidy is so large that it's economically worth it.

The result is that the raise my taxes, divert traffic from my local airport, and make me drive longer to fly. Please save me from government help!

Thats a broader question about the role and the intent of the EAS program. However its hard to say if the EAS service into IMT and ESC truly reduces demand for service at MQT/SAW.
The fares on most routes appear to be pretty comparble out of all 3 of those airports. IMT and ESC I would venture tend to have significant leakage to GRB and ATW.

I've noticed fares maybe $100 lower. Many people will drive 2 hours to save $100.

I'm sure that there is leakage from Sawyer to Iron Mountain and Escanaba. I'm an example, and so are several friends/family. It's a common thing to do. I don't have statistics, but it is non-zero.

EAS is bad.

Yes, there is also leakage to Green Bay.

-Batman

Has anyone heard if United (Skywest) might add a peak summer 3rd daily from ORD to CMX in 2017 as they did a couple years ago when Funniest was being held in Hancock?

It is also interesting to note that MBL-MDW on P1 is going to 3 daily this summer,.

Correction to post #52 above. I meant to say FinnFest not Funniest!

What's going on at FNT? They posted on their Facebook about an incident under investigation?

FNT has an exciting announcement tomorrow, any ideas as to what it may be? https://www.facebook.com/BishopInternat ... 42500488:0

iFlyDTW wrote:

FNT has an exciting announcement tomorrow, any ideas as to what it may be? https://www.facebook.com/BishopInternat ... 42500488:0

If I had to guess, I'd say it's some sort of added G4 flight- maybe LAS or AZA.

coronado wrote:

Correction to post #52 above. I meant to say FinnFest not Funniest!

I remember back in 2004, Finnair operated a 757 into MQT when FinnFest was held there...stopped in BOS first to clear immigration..

910A wrote:

I remember back in 2004, Finnair operated a 757 into MQT when FinnFest was held there...stopped in BOS first to clear immigration..

Interesting! A Finnair 757 at Sawyer is quite the exotic visitor... I'm guessing it was a special charter? And why only in 2004, was it particularly big that year? I'd love to see pictures of the plane on the ramp.

I wonder if the FNT announcement is a new destination from AA, likely CLT?

In this week's OAG thread, AA shows a reduction of 3>2 flights to ORD effective in November. Thus the only departures to ORD would be ~6am & 11am.
Earlier this year, AA added CLT service to TOL alongside the long-standing ORD flights.
Perhaps AA is going to swap an ORD flight with CLT?

Highly doubtful the announcement involves UA, DL, or WN at this point.

N415XJ wrote:

910A wrote:

I remember back in 2004, Finnair operated a 757 into MQT when FinnFest was held there...stopped in BOS first to clear immigration..

Interesting! A Finnair 757 at Sawyer is quite the exotic visitor... I'm guessing it was a special charter? And why only in 2004, was it particularly big that year? I'd love to see pictures of the plane on the ramp.

It brought in a bunch of performers from HEL for the Grand Finn Fest. It unloaded and was ferry to YYZ. Later in the week another one came it to take the performers home again via YYZ. American Eagle was the one that handled the flights. Oops I got the year wrong it was 2005.

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:

I wonder if the FNT announcement is a new destination from AA, likely CLT?

In this week's OAG thread, AA shows a reduction of 3>2 flights to ORD effective in November. Thus the only departures to ORD would be ~6am & 11am.
Earlier this year, AA added CLT service to TOL alongside the long-standing ORD flights.
Perhaps AA is going to swap an ORD flight with CLT?

Highly doubtful the announcement involves UA, DL, or WN at this point.

AA will continue to maintain FNT/ORD at 3x daily, including one flight operated with the CR7. Several of the "cuts" in the OAG thread were just timing issue, as is often the case.

That said, if it's new service, I'd put my money on G6 to LAS. FNT/CLT would be equivalent to a trainwreck, just as TOL/CLT would be sans the gift from Federal tax payers (IMO, once the grant is gone, so will the service). There's no natural business links between mid-Michigan and CLT and the flights would lean heavily on cheap "sun" connections -- not a recipe for sound profitable service. Surprisingly, DL has been able to turn FNT around into carrying a fair amount of local business traffic at decent average fares (comparable to ORD, CLE, etc. but more than a 1/3 less than DTW), which is why the flights turn from M88 into 717 (or smaller) during holiday periods. AA just wouldn't have that lift.

tjwgrr wrote:

iFlyDTW wrote:

FNT has an exciting announcement tomorrow, any ideas as to what it may be? https://www.facebook.com/BishopInternat ... 42500488:0

If I had to guess, I'd say it's some sort of added G4 flight- maybe LAS or AZA.

G4 to PGD (Punta Gorda, FL) starting October 6:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1366251
.
I was almost right.....

Does anyone think Allegiant might add TVC flights in the future ?

Has anyone heard any rumors about Frontier possibly adding Grand Rapids ?

klm617 wrote:

Has anyone heard any rumors about Frontier possibly adding Grand Rapids ?

Frontier is in fact adding GRR-MCO it is now listed as bookable on their website.

klm617 wrote:

klm617 wrote:

Has anyone heard any rumors about Frontier possibly adding Grand Rapids ?

Frontier is in fact adding GRR-MCO it is now listed as bookable on their website.

They are also adding DEN-GRR good to see Frontier back in Grand Rapids. Hopefully Flint is not to far behind.

I would love to see some additional service to Muskegon (MKG), but that airport is probably too close to Grand Rapids to support anything more than the current EAS offering from SkyWest (United Express) on its own. It's a shame, given how nice the passenger terminal is at MKG.

Frontier announced an additional 3x weekly seasonal service from GRR to RSW. The service will operate Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Sundays from December 10, 2017 to April 7, 2018. These are un-coincidentally the days Orlando service does not operate. I'm assuming this means the bookings for Orlando are stronger than expected. http://woodtv.com/2017/09/06/frontier-plans-flights-to-fort-myers-from-ford-airport/

N592NW wrote:

Frontier announced an additional 3x weekly seasonal service from GRR to RSW. The service will operate Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Sundays from December 10, 2017 to April 7, 2018. These are un-coincidentally the days Orlando service does not operate. I'm assuming this means the bookings for Orlando are stronger than expected. http://woodtv.com/2017/09/06/frontier-plans-flights-to-fort-myers-from-ford-airport/

If this says anything, GRR-MCO will be 4x weekly and DTW will be only 3x, the remainder of the days GRR doesn't operate, which is why B6 on DTW-MCO is a strong possibility.

Any chance for a seasonal PIE, PGD, SFB-LAN or TVC?

Anyone have any news on the Upper Peninsula? That's the part of Michigan by Lake Superior. The ocean that's unsalted and shark free.

Still keep wishing OO at risk EAS route to CMX gets changed to a Delta DTW - CMX - MSP and a reverse. Both are better hubs to connect in with stronger ties you the Copper Country and DTW and CMX are both in Michigan. I see a lot more MN plated on cars in Houghton than WI and IL plates.

Frontier will also be adding GRR-DEN flights.

DL tacked a 757-200 on GRR-DTW through February, expected to begin later this week.

Glad to see AA back on Summer18 seasonal LGA-TVC. They concede that route last year completely to DL. I wish AA would do TVC-PHL,DCAor CLT seasonally

flymco753 wrote:

DL tacked a 757-200 on GRR-DTW through February, expected to begin later this week.

Actrually, it's already begun:

GRR-DTW
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL1323

RON in GRR from DTW. To bad it arrives and departs in the dark- not good for spotting.

tjwgrr wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

DL tacked a 757-200 on GRR-DTW through February, expected to begin later this week.

Actrually, it's already begun:

GRR-DTW
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL1323

RON in GRR from DTW. To bad it arrives and departs in the dark- not good for spotting.

Ahh yes I forgot the December scheduled started slightly early. Either way it leaves full every time, I actually know someone who stacked 190 GRR bags in Bin 3 and 4 on the 752, crazy!

RJNUT wrote:

Glad to see AA back on Summer18 seasonal LGA-TVC. They concede that route last year completely to DL. I wish AA would do TVC-PHL,DCAor CLT seasonally

The OAG thread also shows they've brought DFW-TVC back too, I think the next logical add would be CLT on a -900. Perhaps AA can be the next airline to introduce mainline to TVC? Maybe a 319 to DFW?

AA would add more capacity and/or upgauge on TVC-ORD in peak summer months long before putting mainline on DFW-TVC.

I can remember when AA Eagle ran the place(TVC) with very frequent ATR72's coming and going. NW eventually added in the capacity / mainline JETS to eventually take over.

Yeah, in the early 90's NW was running everything from a 19 seat Metro to a 90 seat DC9-30 on DTW-TVC. With the standardization of the XJ prop fleet to the SF340 that boosted capacity and then the ARJ with 69 seats was introduced which did a lot to push market share over to NW. It was an important market that they felt they could win. AA had been in the market a long time, but when the ATR's left Chicago they didn't have a tool to fight with as the ERJ was too small during peak season but the market couldn't support an MD-80 and I think they were loathe to use the F100 for a route like that. NW also had MSP to use to lure loyalty by offering flights to a separate hub (although many years TVC-MSP was only seasonal).

drdisque wrote:

Yeah, in the early 90's NW was running everything from a 19 seat Metro to a 90 seat DC9-30 on DTW-TVC. With the standardization of the XJ prop fleet to the SF340 that boosted capacity and then the ARJ with 69 seats was introduced which did a lot to push market share over to NW. It was an important market that they felt they could win. AA had been in the market a long time, but when the ATR's left Chicago they didn't have a tool to fight with as the ERJ was too small during peak season but the market couldn't support an MD-80 and I think they were loathe to use the F100 for a route like that. NW also had MSP to use to lure loyalty by offering flights to a separate hub (although many years TVC-MSP was only seasonal).

Wasn't there an Access Michigan state incentive program for NW to bring jets to many MI cities at that time? That seems to be when all this market lead transition took place.
I do see that AA has at least bumped capacity up to the CRJ700 on the ORD route, gotta start somewhere , I guess. I would think UA has better chance in the future of adding mainline to TVC seasonally than AA.

RJNUT wrote:

Glad to see AA back on Summer18 seasonal LGA-TVC. They concede that route last year completely to DL. I wish AA would do TVC-PHL,DCAor CLT seasonally

Indeed. I remember when AA first announced LGA-TVC ... all the way back on March 20, 2000!

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:

AA would add more capacity and/or upgauge on TVC-ORD in peak summer months long before putting mainline on DFW-TVC.

Agreed. I, too, am happy to see the summer seasonal DFW-TVC, but I don't expect that route to go mainline any time soon.

commavia wrote:

RJNUT wrote:

Glad to see AA back on Summer18 seasonal LGA-TVC. They concede that route last year completely to DL. I wish AA would do TVC-PHL,DCAor CLT seasonally

Indeed. I remember when AA first announced LGA-TVC ... all the way back on March 20, 2000!

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:

AA would add more capacity and/or upgauge on TVC-ORD in peak summer months long before putting mainline on DFW-TVC.

Agreed. I, too, am happy to see the summer seasonal DFW-TVC, but I don't expect that route to go mainline any time soon.

Yeah, as of right now, DFW-TVC is showing an EMB-140, downgauged from the EMB-175 from last summer.

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:

I wonder if the FNT announcement is a new destination from AA, likely CLT?

In this week's OAG thread, AA shows a reduction of 3>2 flights to ORD effective in November. Thus the only departures to ORD would be ~6am & 11am.
Earlier this year, AA added CLT service to TOL alongside the long-standing ORD flights.
Perhaps AA is going to swap an ORD flight with CLT?

Highly doubtful the announcement involves UA, DL, or WN at this point.

I wish AA brought back the DFW-FNT flight that was axed back around 2008, used to be operated by American Eagle (Envoy) all economy CR7.

Please continue your discussion and to post your updates in thread for 2018:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1384465

Thread will be locked.