commavia wrote:

PlanesNTrains wrote:

Guess we know where this is going.

Indeed. Both airlines will likely settle because they won't be able to stand the P.R.

And long-term, "where this is going" is more delays and more cancellations. Going forward, airlines will simply refuse to shoulder the liability of attempting to enforce their own rules when passengers refuse to comply with them. After crew members, for example, attempt to gate-check a stroller and a passenger refuses to surrender it, there won't be any arguing or negotiation, and certainly no risk of physical altercation. The crew member will simply say, "okay, we'll all just sit here until you comply with crew member instructions."

ILUVDC10S wrote:

[As I have said earlier there is plenty of wasted dead space in the cabin where you can stuff plenty of strollers in a folded state. and Musical instruments such as Guitars and brass instruments . Like I said use that space behind your one beverage cart as storage space its a simple and inexpensive fix !
dead space behind the last row of seats. I should not give out my secret should I LOL .

DocLightning wrote:

This. And it's not impossible. Back in 1998 or so I was flying TW SFO-STL and there was a UM who was boarding the flight. His mother, who had accompanied him to the gate, wanted to accompany him on to the airplane and help him get seated. The gate agent held firm: only airline personnel and ticketed passengers with a boarding pass were permitted down the jetway. She would have to say goodbye to her son here. Well, the mother escalated. The screamed, shouted, cursed the gate agent, etc. all in front of the child. The agent kept repeating herself, either she said goodbye to the child here, or the child would not be permitted to board. Evidently, there was court-ordered visitation so she wasn't going to just take the child home. She escalated more, agent remained calm and finally, airport security showed up and took her out of the way.

During that time, other passengers were beginning to plead with the mother, "Please, ma'am, you're holding up an entire plane." Mom swore at them. The result of all this was because the gate agent behaved like a professional, the mother was made to look like the jerk (and deservedly so) and the passengers did not hold TW responsible for any of this. The flight was about 15 minutes late out of the gate, but we arrived at STL on time. Never did see if the kid made it aboard or not, but if he didn't, it won't go very well for that mother when there's a police report of her exploding at a gate agent and causing her kid to miss his court-mandated visitation with his father (all the passengers got all the details of the arrangement during the mother's rant; it was quite amusing).

That's how you handle a situation like that. And as the former vice president of my company once taught me: "As a mother of two and a grandmother of five, I've learned that when you are dealing with a child or an adult who is acting like a child, just keep repeating yourself. Repetition, repetition, repetition." I've used that trick a fair amount in my work and it really does eventually work.

Blimpie wrote:

Give me something more amusing that angry self-entitled doctor or mom with oversized baby buggy.

That's how you handle a situation like that. And as the former vice president of my company once taught me: "As a mother of two and a grandmother of five, I've learned that when you are dealing with a child or an adult who is acting like a child, just keep repeating yourself. Repetition, repetition, repetition." I've used that trick a fair amount in my work and it really does eventually work.

guyanam wrote:

DLFREEBIRD wrote:

, Nobody knows how hard their job is, unless you have their job, .

We don't have to know what happened before because there is no excuse for a customer service person behaving in such a manner, regardless as to what happened before, that is unless the passenger had hit him, which he had not.

Those who work with airlines in a customer service capacity do NOT have life any harder than do others in other businesses where they have to engage the customer. If some one lacks the psychological ability to de-escalate a situation then they need to go find another job. A customer service person relying on violence should instantly be fired. Not only is his/her behavior in poor shape but it can lead toi a dangerous situation developing and can create significant liability for the airline, and as we see, bad PR.

FACT. US airlines treat passengers like cattle. That is aside from this in the premium classes. The rest of us are treated as if they are doing us a favor. Now when I see an airline with planes offering premium class service only, dropping coach then I can be convinced that airlines don't have a need for this type of passenger to fill planes.

FACT. This has led to some passengers adopting an aggressive attitude as they tire of this. If people are disrespected they will in turn behave with disrespect. Since 9/11 treatment of passengers by many cabin and ground crews has become quite cruel at times.

FACT. Ground and cabin crews have to learn how to avoid a situation and then know how to de-escalate a crisis if it emerges. If they cannot deal with this then what will they do if a terrorist event occurs on a flight? It will be the SAME alpha male passenger that they would have to rely on to help them!

DLFREEBIRD wrote:

You try turning a plane in 45 minutes with passenger who won't obey simple rules.

gzm wrote:

Remember my words, Southwest is next!

mjoelnir wrote:

I think quite a few posters here hate mothers with children, is that an USA airline crew trent? On most of the airline I have flown on, mothers or families with small children are preboarded, they get help installing the children and themselves in the airplane. A police like with the big strollers and that they would get them back at the other side at deboarding would have been carefully explained, the stroller tacked. And than there is the USA airline industry.

PlanesNTrains wrote:

mjoelnir wrote:

I think quite a few posters here hate mothers with children, is that an USA airline crew trent? On most of the airline I have flown on, mothers or families with small children are preboarded, they get help installing the children and themselves in the airplane. A police like with the big strollers and that they would get them back at the other side at deboarding would have been carefully explained, the stroller tacked. And than there is the USA airline industry.

Every_single_flight that I can remember, they've allowed parents with small children to pre-board. I know it goes against your pre-conceived notion, but perhaps she wasn't at the gate until the last minute? Perhaps she misunderstood what the gate agent said? Perhaps the FA's were in the galley when she boarded and didn't see her?

My sister-in-law has been an FA for close to 30 years and I've heard countless examples of how she and others have gone out of their way to help people in just these types of situations. I'm sorry that gets lost when a viral video is spread.

Tugger wrote:

DLFREEBIRD wrote:

You try turning a plane in 45 minutes with passenger who won't obey simple rules.

It is not the requirement of the FAA or DOT regulations and rules to assist airlines in turning an aircraft in 45 minutes. That is up to the airline. There is a difference between not obeying a rules and airlines abusing the power of a rule to force a situation from a customer service solution. Airlines honestly simply need to improve their customer service.

Tugg

mjoelnir wrote:

PlanesNTrains wrote:

mjoelnir wrote:

I think quite a few posters here hate mothers with children, is that an USA airline crew trent? On most of the airline I have flown on, mothers or families with small children are preboarded, they get help installing the children and themselves in the airplane. A police like with the big strollers and that they would get them back at the other side at deboarding would have been carefully explained, the stroller tacked. And than there is the USA airline industry.

Every_single_flight that I can remember, they've allowed parents with small children to pre-board. I know it goes against your pre-conceived notion, but perhaps she wasn't at the gate until the last minute? Perhaps she misunderstood what the gate agent said? Perhaps the FA's were in the galley when she boarded and didn't see her?

My sister-in-law has been an FA for close to 30 years and I've heard countless examples of how she and others have gone out of their way to help people in just these types of situations. I'm sorry that gets lost when a viral video is spread.

I go by the sentiment on this thread. And very simple, are mothers with little children preboarded in the USA?I have been oft astonished that in the USA all empathy seems to go to the premium passenger only. And I have boarded few flights were not at least one FA is standing near the door welcoming the passengers, after the passenger having passed the gate staff while your boarding pass is scanned. Perhaps that mother had an invisible shroud or did transpose to the cabin.

And does people here also perhaps believe that the FA in question had reasoned with the mother for some time, before gripping to more forceful action?

727LOVER wrote:

According to this Wash Post article....the same lawyer is representing both " victims "


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dr- ... b08776c41d


Also, what the hell would she be suing for? AA was quite generous toward her.

usflyer msp wrote:

727LOVER wrote:

According to this Wash Post article....the same lawyer is representing both " victims "


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dr- ... b08776c41d


Also, what the hell would she be suing for? AA was quite generous toward her.

I concur, I cannot see what her damages could possibly be. She got $1000, an upgrade, and still got to her destination in a timely manner. Ridiculous...

PlanesNTrains wrote:

I'm not sure if that's because they don't allow enough time to get to the gate or if they just don't want to get on early with small children

PlanesNTrains wrote:

I think you are under the impression that folks like me want to blame the mother and absolve the flight crew. Were life so simple.

EA CO AS wrote:

D L X wrote:

PlanesNTrains wrote:

I'm not sure if that's because they don't allow enough time to get to the gate or if they just don't want to get on early with small children

Speaking for myself here, i greatly prefer NOT preboarding when I'm traveling with my toddler. She's antsy and fidgety and is guaranteed to tantrum on a plane that's not moving. I do not believe it takes significantly longer to set up with a toddler or infant.

Now one thing I would do is if I'm traveling with my wife and my kid, I'll preboard with the kid's and my wife's crap, and at last call, my wife will come on with the kid. We get to use the overhead space while keeping our precious little terrorist baby out of a confined space. That's potentially half an hour less time baby is on the plane.

This is arguably the best way to travel with little ones, if you have the means to do it. Let one parent preboard and get everything sorted, including carryons and car seats (if any), and THEN board with the kid(s) toward the end to minimize the fussiness.

Oh, and while hand sanitizer is a must-have both before and after using this, the single BEST keep-your-toddler-occupied item at your disposal is one you didn't even bring onboard - the inflight magazine. Kids are fascinated by them for anywhere from 20 minutes to an hour, and that time is golden!

mjoelnir wrote:

PlanesNTrains wrote:

I think you are under the impression that folks like me want to blame the mother and absolve the flight crew. Were life so simple.

That is exactly my impression. A complete whitewash for a person hitting another person in the face with an object and trying to produce ridiculous scenarios where that is OK.

intotheair wrote:

EA CO AS wrote:

D L X wrote:

Speaking for myself here, i greatly prefer NOT preboarding when I'm traveling with my toddler. She's antsy and fidgety and is guaranteed to tantrum on a plane that's not moving. I do not believe it takes significantly longer to set up with a toddler or infant.

Now one thing I would do is if I'm traveling with my wife and my kid, I'll preboard with the kid's and my wife's crap, and at last call, my wife will come on with the kid. We get to use the overhead space while keeping our precious little terrorist baby out of a confined space. That's potentially half an hour less time baby is on the plane.

This is arguably the best way to travel with little ones, if you have the means to do it. Let one parent preboard and get everything sorted, including carryons and car seats (if any), and THEN board with the kid(s) toward the end to minimize the fussiness.

Oh, and while hand sanitizer is a must-have both before and after using this, the single BEST keep-your-toddler-occupied item at your disposal is one you didn't even bring onboard - the inflight magazine. Kids are fascinated by them for anywhere from 20 minutes to an hour, and that time is golden!

Hah! I've long since grown up but I still pull out the magazine to look at the route map on almost every flight I take. Reminds me of how my dad used to pull out Hemispheres on almost every flight we took when I grew up!