Luisvalero
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Swiss Airlines Intercontinental Routes

Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:07 am

Hi guys! I'm wondering how is Swiss doing on it's intercontinental routes. Which have the biggest loads? And the lowest? Which are their main connection markets?

Swiss currently flies to YUL, BOS, JFK, EWR, MIA, ORD, SFO, LAX, GRU, CAI, NBO, DAR, JNB, TLV, DXB, MCT, DEL, BOM, BKK, SIN, HKG, PVG, PEK, & NRT

Any plans for new routes? I Think these routes can work IAH, YYZ, IAD, MEX, EZE, BEY, IKA, HAN, TPE, ICN
Last edited by atcsundevil on Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title edited for clarity
 
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SR380
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Re: Swiss Airlines Questions

Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:20 pm

Swiss international airline is doing very well especially since the Lufthansa takeover. It's clearly the premium/high revenu brand of the LH group. Beside maybe Johannesburg where the aircraft sit for 12 hours all of the network is doing pretty well. LX did not plan new routes, recently haded 777 are for increase capacity only. However Edelweiss Air which is belonging 100% to Swiss anounced new destinations including San Diego, Cancun and Mauritius using used A343 inherited from parent LX.
 
hynithuchi
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Re: Swiss Airlines Questions

Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:16 pm

Luisvalero wrote:
Hi guys! I'm wondering how is Swiss doing on it's intercontinental routes. Which have the biggest loads? And the lowest? Which are their main connection markets?

Swiss currently flies to YUL, BOS, JFK, EWR, MIA, ORD, SFO, LAX, GRU, CAI, NBO, DAR, JNB, TLV, DXB, MCT, DEL, BOM, BKK, SIN, HKG, PVG, PEK, & NRT

Any plans for new routes? I Think these routes can work IAH, YYZ, IAD, MEX, EZE, BEY, IKA, HAN, TPE, ICN

I think you would need a real Swiss insider to answer your question, planning of new routes is probably done by LH and not Swiss alone, trying to use all the Star synergies. As for performance, someone may be able to give you load factors, but they don't always reflect the financial aspect of the operation. Hope you can get a comprehensive answer to your question.
 
LXA340
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Re: Swiss Airlines Intercontinental Routes

Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:01 pm

When special fares for Business and First Class are promoted I can't recall to have seen NRT being amongst them. Hence using this logic which might be completely wrong, I would say that NRT probably has the highest yield in the long haul network.
 
edgaren
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Re: Swiss Airlines Intercontinental Routes

Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:41 pm

Speaking of Swiss Airlines, not long ago I was wondering why does LX fly to Mia twice daily ? I mean what are the demographics in that route ? I confess my ignorance in that market, is it high yielding, leisure, connections mostly ?.
 
MAH4546
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Re: Swiss Airlines Intercontinental Routes

Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:46 pm

edgaren wrote:
Speaking of Swiss Airlines, not long ago I was wondering why does LX fly to Mia twice daily ? I mean what are the demographics in that route ? I confess my ignorance in that market, is it high yielding, leisure, connections mostly ?.


Miami is the third largest local long-haul market from Zurich after New York City and Bangkok, so there's a lot of volume, it's 200+ PDEW. And just generally there are good business ties between South Florida and Switzerland, mainly in the financial sector.
a.
 
Bhoy
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Re: Swiss Airlines Intercontinental Routes

Sat Apr 22, 2017 12:00 am

I can't see LX opening any flights to YYZ any time soon, they already codeshare on AC's ZRH-YYZ and seasonal GVA-YUL-YYZ flights.
 
edgaren
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Re: Swiss Airlines Intercontinental Routes

Sat Apr 22, 2017 12:23 am

Miami is the third largest local long-haul market from Zurich after New York City and Bangkok, so there's a lot of volume, it's 200+ PDEW. And just generally there are good business ties between South Florida and Switzerland, mainly in the financial sector.[/quote]

Interesting...thanks for the very informative reply.
 
NichCage
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Re: Swiss Airlines Intercontinental Routes

Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:31 am

There is something that I wonder. Why does Edelweiss Air fly ZRH-Tampa? I find it strange considering ZRH doesn't have flights to MCO.
 
whywhyzee
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Re: Swiss Airlines Intercontinental Routes

Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:34 am

Bhoy wrote:
I can't see LX opening any flights to YYZ any time soon, they already codeshare on AC's ZRH-YYZ and seasonal GVA-YUL-YYZ flights.

I also believe they have a sort of informal agreement with AC that says they take YUL and AC takes YYZ, and they keep it at that.

Could YYZ support 2 daily frequencies, more then likely, but given how YYZ is just about full with no room to expand, anything new will likely be something of a greater priority, ZRH just isn't that priority.
 
daumueller
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Re: Swiss Airlines Intercontinental Routes

Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:22 am

whywhyzee wrote:
Bhoy wrote:
I can't see LX opening any flights to YYZ any time soon, they already codeshare on AC's ZRH-YYZ and seasonal GVA-YUL-YYZ flights.

I also believe they have a sort of informal agreement with AC that says they take YUL and AC takes YYZ, and they keep it at that.

Could YYZ support 2 daily frequencies, more then likely, but given how YYZ is just about full with no room to expand, anything new will likely be something of a greater priority, ZRH just isn't that priority.


It's actually a formal agreement. They have trust immunity and full revenue sharing on those routes.
 
kimimm19
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Re: Swiss Airlines Intercontinental Routes

Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:08 am

Indications such as optimizing their fleet with new Cseries aircraft for shorthaul and higher density 77Ws (in relations to the 343s) in markets that need it and only modest expansion shorthaul as indicated from their promotions suggest that they are content with optimizing their network first, especially amidst the surplus of longhaul capacity that we keep hearing.
 
axiom
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Re: Swiss Airlines Intercontinental Routes

Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:35 am

NichCage wrote:
There is something that I wonder. Why does Edelweiss Air fly ZRH-Tampa? I find it strange considering ZRH doesn't have flights to MCO.


WK left MCO for TPA after one season in 2011. At the time, TPA-EU was relatively under-served, and the TPA administration made a point of offering WK generous subsidies to switch airports (MCO and TPA are imperfect but decent substitutes -- the former no doubt draws from the latter, given its size, and in exchange for an extended drive to the Mouse, TPA offers the beach). Ever since the switch, the route's done well and has settled in to 3/weekly in season and 2/weekly out of season with a mix of A333 and A343. I have a hunch that WK's performance in TPA helped to push LH to launch service in 2015.

As an aside, not sure why TPA's growing international footprint surprises folks. It's a very solid destination and a large market in its own right. Yesterday evening I saw 753, 763, 772, and two A343s jet off -- not so bad for Central Florida's "other" gateway.
 
PhilInBRN
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Re: Swiss Airlines Intercontinental Routes

Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:03 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
edgaren wrote:
Speaking of Swiss Airlines, not long ago I was wondering why does LX fly to Mia twice daily ? I mean what are the demographics in that route ? I confess my ignorance in that market, is it high yielding, leisure, connections mostly ?.


Miami is the third largest local long-haul market from Zurich after New York City and Bangkok, so there's a lot of volume, it's 200+ PDEW. And just generally there are good business ties between South Florida and Switzerland, mainly in the financial sector.


I recently prepared some stats provided by the Swiss Federal Bureau of Statistics, which provide O&D PDEW from ZRH in 2016. Following a list of the top 15 long haul destinations O&D:

Destination / O&D 2016
    Suvarnabhumi Bangkok International 378
    New York J F Kennedy 346
    Tel Aviv Ben Gurion International 322
    Singapore Changi 197
    Miami International 170
    Hong Kong Chek Lap Kok Int.Airport 163
    San Francisco International 155
    Seoul Incheon International Airport 147
    Los Angeles International 145
    New York Newark International 134
    Toronto Lester Pearson Internatio 125
    Tokyo Narita 117
    Shanghai Pu Dong 113
    Bombay 110
    Boston Logan International 110

Following the list for total pax on direct flights including transfer pax:

Destination / Total direct 2016
    Dubai 697
    New York J F Kennedy 606
    Tel Aviv Ben Gurion International 592
    Singapore Changi 525
    Suvarnabhumi Bangkok International 500
    Hong Kong Chek Lap Kok Int.Airport 475
    New York Newark International 344
    Muscat 323
    Miami International 295
    Chicago O Hare International 258
    Los Angeles International 249
    Boston Logan International 246
    San Francisco International 239
    Montreal Dorval International 229
    Sao Paulo Guarulhos Int 214

Largest unserved long haul destinations from ZRH in 2016

Destination / Total O&D 2016
    Nairobi Jomo Kenyatta International 90
    Colombo Bandaranayike 85
    Bali International Ngurah Rai 79
    Sydney Kingsford Smith 76
    Taipei Chiang Kai Shek Intl 67
    Manila Ninoy Aquino International 61
    Melbourne 49
    Kuala Lumpur 47
    Mexico City Benito Juarez Intl 41
    Auckland International 40
    Buenos Aires Ministro Pistarini 38
    Surathani Samui 37
    Brisbane 37
    Jakarta Soekarno-Hatta 34
    Denver International 34

Longhaul destinations that are already served from ZRH by indirect pax per day:

Destination / Total indirect PDEW 2016
    Seoul Incheon International Airport 60
    Mauritius 54
    Phuket 51
    Cape Town 43
    Male 40
    Vancouver International 28
    Punta Cana 17
    Rio De Janeiro International 10

IMO and judging from the two last lists, future destinations for LX at ZRH could include, TPE and ICN. However, due to the lack of additional longhaul aircraft, I do not see LX adding longhaul destinations in the near future. Destinations such as Colombo, Bali or Manila would fit the strategy of WK better and could certainly be on their future route map given the addition of two additional A340s until the end of 2018.

The figures can be found in a thorough report from the Federal Bureau of Statistics: https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/de/home/st ... 40601.html
 
ASQ400
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Re: Swiss Airlines Intercontinental Routes

Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:39 pm

I think it'd make more sense for them to expand out of GVA, maybe to IAH. ZRH is pretty much covered for now.
 
bmacleod
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Re: Swiss Airlines Intercontinental Routes

Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:15 pm

whywhyzee wrote:
Bhoy wrote:
I can't see LX opening any flights to YYZ any time soon, they already codeshare on AC's ZRH-YYZ and seasonal GVA-YUL-YYZ flights.

I also believe they have a sort of informal agreement with AC that says they take YUL and AC takes YYZ, and they keep it at that.

Could YYZ support 2 daily frequencies, more then likely, but given how YYZ is just about full with no room to expand, anything new will likely be something of a greater priority, ZRH just isn't that priority.


Any links to SR's history in Canada? YYZ and YUL only cities served?
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
nadavatar64
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Re: Swiss Airlines Intercontinental Routes

Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:19 pm

ASQ400 wrote:
I think it'd make more sense for them to expand out of GVA, maybe to IAH. ZRH is pretty much covered for now.


There are wayyy more important routes to add from GVA other than GVA-IAH.
 
ASQ400
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Re: Swiss Airlines Intercontinental Routes

Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:24 pm

nadavatar64 wrote:
ASQ400 wrote:
I think it'd make more sense for them to expand out of GVA, maybe to IAH. ZRH is pretty much covered for now.


There are wayyy more important routes to add from GVA other than GVA-IAH.

Looking at it from the perspective of Star Alliance, it's connected to most other things. They can get Star connections to SA from there
 
nadavatar64
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Re: Swiss Airlines Intercontinental Routes

Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:33 pm

ASQ400 wrote:
nadavatar64 wrote:
ASQ400 wrote:
I think it'd make more sense for them to expand out of GVA, maybe to IAH. ZRH is pretty much covered for now.


There are wayyy more important routes to add from GVA other than GVA-IAH.

Looking at it from the perspective of Star Alliance, it's connected to most other things. They can get Star connections to SA from there


They dont even serve ZRH-IAH and IAH is not in great shape right now, so I dont see it happening but I hope I am wrong.
 
ASQ400
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Re: Swiss Airlines Intercontinental Routes

Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:43 pm

nadavatar64 wrote:
ASQ400 wrote:
nadavatar64 wrote:

There are wayyy more important routes to add from GVA other than GVA-IAH.

Looking at it from the perspective of Star Alliance, it's connected to most other things. They can get Star connections to SA from there


They dont even serve ZRH-IAH and IAH is not in great shape right now, so I dont see it happening but I hope I am wrong.

You have a point, and EWR's South American network is bolstered as is. Maybe they should just focus on frequency out of ZRH...
 
B752OS
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Re: Swiss Airlines Intercontinental Routes

Sat Apr 22, 2017 6:01 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
edgaren wrote:
Speaking of Swiss Airlines, not long ago I was wondering why does LX fly to Mia twice daily ? I mean what are the demographics in that route ? I confess my ignorance in that market, is it high yielding, leisure, connections mostly ?.


Miami is the third largest local long-haul market from Zurich after New York City and Bangkok, so there's a lot of volume, it's 200+ PDEW. And just generally there are good business ties between South Florida and Switzerland, mainly in the financial sector.


Why hasn't AA jumped on the route given it's so large?
 
MAH4546
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Re: Swiss Airlines Intercontinental Routes

Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:34 pm

B752OS wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
edgaren wrote:
Speaking of Swiss Airlines, not long ago I was wondering why does LX fly to Mia twice daily ? I mean what are the demographics in that route ? I confess my ignorance in that market, is it high yielding, leisure, connections mostly ?.


Miami is the third largest local long-haul market from Zurich after New York City and Bangkok, so there's a lot of volume, it's 200+ PDEW. And just generally there are good business ties between South Florida and Switzerland, mainly in the financial sector.


Why hasn't AA jumped on the route given it's so large?


I've wondered the same but it could possibly face the same trouble that AA has had on MIA-FRA and that is that the traffic overwhelmingly originates in Zürich so it's harder to grab marketshare. The five markets AA serves from MIA to Europe - LHR, MAD, BCN, CDG, and MXP - all have a better balance of Miami/Europe originating traffic.
a.
 
Luisvalero
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Re: Swiss Airlines Intercontinental Routes

Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:41 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
B752OS wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:

Miami is the third largest local long-haul market from Zurich after New York City and Bangkok, so there's a lot of volume, it's 200+ PDEW. And just generally there are good business ties between South Florida and Switzerland, mainly in the financial sector.


Why hasn't AA jumped on the route given it's so large?


I've wondered the same but it could possibly face the same trouble that AA has had on MIA-FRA and that is that the traffic overwhelmingly originates in Zürich so it's harder to grab marketshare. The five markets AA serves from MIA to Europe - LHR, MAD, BCN, CDG, and MXP - all have a better balance of Miami/Europe originating traffic.



MAD-MIA is a really huge route. 700.000 passengers each year
 
filipair
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Re: Swiss Airlines Intercontinental Routes

Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:58 pm

PhilInBRN wrote:


Wow, really cool to see some actual traffic data. Thanks for sharing and thanks for putting this together!

PhilInBRN wrote:

Longhaul destinations that are already served from ZRH by indirect pax per day:

Destination / Total indirect PDEW 2016
    Seoul Incheon International Airport 60
    Mauritius 54
    Phuket 51
    Cape Town 43
    Male 40
    Vancouver International 28
    Punta Cana 17
    Rio De Janeiro International 10

IMO and judging from the two last lists, future destinations for LX at ZRH could include, TPE and ICN. However, due to the lack of additional longhaul aircraft, I do not see LX adding longhaul destinations in the near future. Destinations such as Colombo, Bali or Manila would fit the strategy of WK better and could certainly be on their future route map given the addition of two additional A340s until the end of 2018.

The figures can be found in a thorough report from the Federal Bureau of Statistics: https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/de/home/st ... 40601.html


A minor note about this last table. And please correct me if I'm wrong. But the data in this list (excel file tab C2) is not just indirect passengers to these destinations... it's total PDEW for nonstop (direct) AND connecting (indirect) passengers. The wording in the description is something like "Final destination of local passengers by city of departure." If that's the case, there may not be much more of a market to ICN that what is already served with the 3x weekly Korean Air flight.

Gosh, I really love reading through traffic data like this. I'm aware of Transtat BLS statistics for US domestic and international flights. Also the 2011 Brookings study on US int'l traffic. Does anyone else here know of publicly available traffic data from around the world?
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Swiss Airlines Intercontinental Routes

Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:27 pm

As already mentioned, people are reading far too much into YYZ. Air Canada, United and Lufthansa Group have a fully immunised joint venture where they share costs and revenue.

When setting capacity and schedules it has worked out that AC took YYZ-ZRH and LX YUL-ZRH. United fly IAD-ZRH and Swiss fly ORD-ZRH. Notionally these carriers are fully interchangeable so which airlines metal is on the route is irrelevant.

If that confuses you consider that it makes more sense than Delta flying PHL-AMS!
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
Luisvalero
Topic Author
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Re: Swiss Airlines Intercontinental Routes

Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:47 pm

RyanairGuru wrote:
As already mentioned, people are reading far too much into YYZ. Air Canada, United and Lufthansa Group have a fully immunised joint venture where they share costs and revenue.

When setting capacity and schedules it has worked out that AC took YYZ-ZRH and LX YUL-ZRH. United fly IAD-ZRH and Swiss fly ORD-ZRH. Notionally these carriers are fully interchangeable so which airlines metal is on the route is irrelevant.

If that confuses you consider that it makes more sense than Delta flying PHL-AMS!


UA doesn't fly IAH-ZRH
 
THY748i
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Re: Swiss Airlines Intercontinental Routes

Sat Apr 22, 2017 9:04 pm

For all I know from second hand information, ZRH-TLV yields must be one of the best across the network. Anyone can back this up? Any information out there on yields on different routes?
 
georgiabill
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Re: Swiss Airlines Intercontinental Routes

Sat Apr 22, 2017 9:32 pm

Does anyone think the 789 and 781 will be in LX future fleet? The 781 would serve heavier demand routes and 789 would serve longer routes and possibly allow opening new routes.
 
Taco2sDay
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Re: Swiss Airlines Intercontinental Routes

Sat Apr 22, 2017 9:37 pm

Luisvalero wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
As already mentioned, people are reading far too much into YYZ. Air Canada, United and Lufthansa Group have a fully immunised joint venture where they share costs and revenue.

When setting capacity and schedules it has worked out that AC took YYZ-ZRH and LX YUL-ZRH. United fly IAD-ZRH and Swiss fly ORD-ZRH. Notionally these carriers are fully interchangeable so which airlines metal is on the route is irrelevant.

If that confuses you consider that it makes more sense than Delta flying PHL-AMS!


UA doesn't fly IAH-ZRH


It's IAD-ZRH, not IAH to ZRH that UA flies.
 
PhilInBRN
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Re: Swiss Airlines Intercontinental Routes

Fri Apr 28, 2017 6:42 pm

filipair wrote:
A minor note about this last table. And please correct me if I'm wrong. But the data in this list (excel file tab C2) is not just indirect passengers to these destinations... it's total PDEW for nonstop (direct) AND connecting (indirect) passengers. The wording in the description is something like "Final destination of local passengers by city of departure." If that's the case, there may not be much more of a market to ICN that what is already served with the 3x weekly Korean Air flight.


For the last table, I actually subtracted pax on direct flight from total pax. So for ICN, total PDEW per day is 147, whereof 87 travel on the KE direct flight and 60 use stop-over flights.

Here are the top 10 unserved European routes from ZRH

Ankara Esenboga 27 --> in S17 served by GM (once weekly)
Tallinn 26
Bergen 21 --> in S17 served by LX (twice weekly)
Wroclaw 21
Tirana 20
Glasgow International 19
Gdansk 18
Billund 17
Bremen 17
Gaziantep 15

As you can see, O&D from ZRH is very well covered. Out of the above, Tirana (GM), Wroclaw (LX) and Tallinn (nordica) seem most likely to see future services. Keep in mind also that direct flights usually stimulate demand and there will be connecting pax on LX as well.

Here are the top 10 underserved European routes from ZRH

Edinburgh 39 --> frequency expaned in S17 by WK
Beirut 16
Göteborg Landvetter 16 --> capacity expanded in S17 by LX
Tromsö 13
Faro 12
Antalya 12
Lamezia Terme 11
Varna 11
Sarajevo 10
Aeroporto da Madeira 9
Fuerteventura 8

This is a clear indicator that connecting on intra-European flights is not a very common occurrence at ZRH. Most ZRH outbound pax connect to longhaul destinations.

I will later post some more figures in the Swiss Aviation thread.
 
EddieDude
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Re: Swiss Airlines Intercontinental Routes

Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:06 pm

PhilInBRN wrote:
Largest unserved long haul destinations from ZRH in 2016

Destination / Total O&D 2016
    Nairobi Jomo Kenyatta International 90
    Colombo Bandaranayike 85
    Bali International Ngurah Rai 79
    Sydney Kingsford Smith 76
    Taipei Chiang Kai Shek Intl 67
    Manila Ninoy Aquino International 61
    Melbourne 49
    Kuala Lumpur 47
    Mexico City Benito Juarez Intl 41
    Auckland International 40
    Buenos Aires Ministro Pistarini 38
    Surathani Samui 37
    Brisbane 37
    Jakarta Soekarno-Hatta 34
    Denver International 34

ZRH-MEX does not look too auspicious based on this. The only scenario that I could see LX launching ZRH-MEX nonstop is to preempt EK's plans to fly to MEX via ZRH with fifth freedom rights. Even then, I think is a super long shot, considering that the Lufthansa Group has MEX well covered with daily service from FRA (748I) and 6x weekly service from MUC (A346).
Upcoming S4 0221 LIS-PDL A310-300!!!
 
Wpr8e
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Re: Swiss Airlines Intercontinental Routes

Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:12 pm

EddieDude wrote:
PhilInBRN wrote:
Largest unserved long haul destinations from ZRH in 2016

Destination / Total O&D 2016
    Nairobi Jomo Kenyatta International 90
    Colombo Bandaranayike 85
    Bali International Ngurah Rai 79
    Sydney Kingsford Smith 76
    Taipei Chiang Kai Shek Intl 67
    Manila Ninoy Aquino International 61
    Melbourne 49
    Kuala Lumpur 47
    Mexico City Benito Juarez Intl 41
    Auckland International 40
    Buenos Aires Ministro Pistarini 38
    Surathani Samui 37
    Brisbane 37
    Jakarta Soekarno-Hatta 34
    Denver International 34

ZRH-MEX does not look too auspicious based on this. The only scenario that I could see LX launching ZRH-MEX nonstop is to preempt EK's plans to fly to MEX via ZRH with fifth freedom rights. Even then, I think is a super long shot, considering that the Lufthansa Group has MEX well covered with daily service from FRA (748I) and 6x weekly service from MUC (A346).


This begs a question I've always had. Does the LH group run their respective airlines as one network, or are they independent entities each competing for independent benefits? Given Swiss is not in the EU, I presume they are run completely independent. But I would also guess that LH/SN/OS have a higher level of collusion given their respective countries EU membership.
 
nadavatar64
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Re: Swiss Airlines Intercontinental Routes

Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:33 pm

THY748i wrote:
For all I know from second hand information, ZRH-TLV yields must be one of the best across the network. Anyone can back this up? Any information out there on yields on different routes?


Well as far as I know, Israel and Switzerland have pretty big business realations ( mostly about finances and diamond IINM), although that route gets tons of connecting traffic due to the codeshare agreement between LX and LY, and also alot of leisure traffic from Israel.
 
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ankaraflyjet
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Re: Swiss Airlines Intercontinental Routes

Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:35 pm

I think the sole reason why Swiss is not reinstating ZRH ESB ZRH is because of LH trying not to lose transfer pax on MUC-ESB-MUC but LX can easily start the route with the new Bombardier a/c a daily rotation will make this route very profitable...ESB is the only growing market nowadays in Turkey

PhilInBRN wrote:
filipair wrote:
A minor note about this last table. And please correct me if I'm wrong. But the data in this list (excel file tab C2) is not just indirect passengers to these destinations... it's total PDEW for nonstop (direct) AND connecting (indirect) passengers. The wording in the description is something like "Final destination of local passengers by city of departure." If that's the case, there may not be much more of a market to ICN that what is already served with the 3x weekly Korean Air flight.


For the last table, I actually subtracted pax on direct flight from total pax. So for ICN, total PDEW per day is 147, whereof 87 travel on the KE direct flight and 60 use stop-over flights.

Here are the top 10 unserved European routes from ZRH

Ankara Esenboga 27 --> in S17 served by GM (once weekly)
Tallinn 26
Bergen 21 --> in S17 served by LX (twice weekly)
Wroclaw 21
Tirana 20
Glasgow International 19
Gdansk 18
Billund 17
Bremen 17
Gaziantep 15

As you can see, O&D from ZRH is very well covered. Out of the above, Tirana (GM), Wroclaw (LX) and Tallinn (nordica) seem most likely to see future services. Keep in mind also that direct flights usually stimulate demand and there will be connecting pax on LX as well.

Here are the top 10 underserved European routes from ZRH

Edinburgh 39 --> frequency expaned in S17 by WK
Beirut 16
Göteborg Landvetter 16 --> capacity expanded in S17 by LX
Tromsö 13
Faro 12
Antalya 12
Lamezia Terme 11
Varna 11
Sarajevo 10
Aeroporto da Madeira 9
Fuerteventura 8

This is a clear indicator that connecting on intra-European flights is not a very common occurrence at ZRH. Most ZRH outbound pax connect to longhaul destinations.

I will later post some more figures in the Swiss Aviation thread.
 
345tas
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:05 pm

Re: Swiss Airlines Intercontinental Routes

Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:54 pm

nadavatar64 wrote:
THY748i wrote:
For all I know from second hand information, ZRH-TLV yields must be one of the best across the network. Anyone can back this up? Any information out there on yields on different routes?


Well as far as I know, Israel and Switzerland have pretty big business realations ( mostly about finances and diamond IINM), although that route gets tons of connecting traffic due to the codeshare agreement between LX and LY, and also alot of leisure traffic from Israel.


Switzerland and Israel have solid business traffic that should help C yields. However in Y Swiss is often one of the cheapest options to/from the US and Far East. I myself have flown TLV-ZRH-HKG-MEL as part of a cheap ticket booked through Lufthansa. So yields in Y may not be great but of course I have no proper commercial info about this.
 
MoonC
Posts: 80
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:26 am

Re: Swiss Airlines Intercontinental Routes

Fri Apr 28, 2017 10:21 pm

EddieDude wrote:
PhilInBRN wrote:
Largest unserved long haul destinations from ZRH in 2016

Destination / Total O&D 2016
    Nairobi Jomo Kenyatta International 90
    Colombo Bandaranayike 85
    Bali International Ngurah Rai 79
    Sydney Kingsford Smith 76
    Taipei Chiang Kai Shek Intl 67
    Manila Ninoy Aquino International 61
    Melbourne 49
    Kuala Lumpur 47
    Mexico City Benito Juarez Intl 41
    Auckland International 40
    Buenos Aires Ministro Pistarini 38
    Surathani Samui 37
    Brisbane 37
    Jakarta Soekarno-Hatta 34
    Denver International 34

ZRH-MEX does not look too auspicious based on this. The only scenario that I could see LX launching ZRH-MEX nonstop is to preempt EK's plans to fly to MEX via ZRH with fifth freedom rights. Even then, I think is a super long shot, considering that the Lufthansa Group has MEX well covered with daily service from FRA (748I) and 6x weekly service from MUC (A346).


EK has 5th freedom rights to MEX only from GVA, not ZRH.
 
nadavatar64
Posts: 196
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:44 pm

Re: Swiss Airlines Intercontinental Routes

Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:20 am

345tas wrote:
nadavatar64 wrote:
THY748i wrote:
For all I know from second hand information, ZRH-TLV yields must be one of the best across the network. Anyone can back this up? Any information out there on yields on different routes?


Well as far as I know, Israel and Switzerland have pretty big business realations ( mostly about finances and diamond IINM), although that route gets tons of connecting traffic due to the codeshare agreement between LX and LY, and also alot of leisure traffic from Israel.


Switzerland and Israel have solid business traffic that should help C yields. However in Y Swiss is often one of the cheapest options to/from the US and Far East. I myself have flown TLV-ZRH-HKG-MEL as part of a cheap ticket booked through Lufthansa. So yields in Y may not be great but of course I have no proper commercial info about this.


Yes they are very cheap, I flew with them TLV-ZRH-MIA-ZRH-TLV for around 600$ RT, which is dirt cheap ( I think one of the ZRH-TLV sectors was with LY). But as long as C and F are pretty full, there is no problem.
 
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ankaraflyjet
Posts: 340
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:34 pm

Re: Swiss Airlines Intercontinental Routes

Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:32 pm

Thank you for this information,
Are these pax numbers per day? If so are these year-round? Where did you get these numbers from?
Thank you

PhilInBRN wrote:
filipair wrote:
A minor note about this last table. And please correct me if I'm wrong. But the data in this list (excel file tab C2) is not just indirect passengers to these destinations... it's total PDEW for nonstop (direct) AND connecting (indirect) passengers. The wording in the description is something like "Final destination of local passengers by city of departure." If that's the case, there may not be much more of a market to ICN that what is already served with the 3x weekly Korean Air flight.


For the last table, I actually subtracted pax on direct flight from total pax. So for ICN, total PDEW per day is 147, whereof 87 travel on the KE direct flight and 60 use stop-over flights.

Here are the top 10 unserved European routes from ZRH

Ankara Esenboga 27 --> in S17 served by GM (once weekly)
Tallinn 26
Bergen 21 --> in S17 served by LX (twice weekly)
Wroclaw 21
Tirana 20
Glasgow International 19
Gdansk 18
Billund 17
Bremen 17
Gaziantep 15

As you can see, O&D from ZRH is very well covered. Out of the above, Tirana (GM), Wroclaw (LX) and Tallinn (nordica) seem most likely to see future services. Keep in mind also that direct flights usually stimulate demand and there will be connecting pax on LX as well.

Here are the top 10 underserved European routes from ZRH

Edinburgh 39 --> frequency expaned in S17 by WK
Beirut 16
Göteborg Landvetter 16 --> capacity expanded in S17 by LX
Tromsö 13
Faro 12
Antalya 12
Lamezia Terme 11
Varna 11
Sarajevo 10
Aeroporto da Madeira 9
Fuerteventura 8

This is a clear indicator that connecting on intra-European flights is not a very common occurrence at ZRH. Most ZRH outbound pax connect to longhaul destinations.

I will later post some more figures in the Swiss Aviation thread.
 
User avatar
SFOA380
Posts: 463
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 4:35 am

Re: Swiss Airlines Intercontinental Routes

Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:02 am

I recently prepared some stats provided by the Swiss Federal Bureau of Statistics, which provide O&D PDEW from ZRH in 2016. Following a list of the top 15 long haul destinations O&D:

Destination / O&D 2016
[list]Suvarnabhumi Bangkok International 378
New York J F Kennedy 346
Tel Aviv Ben Gurion International 322
Singapore Changi 197
Miami International 170
Hong Kong Chek Lap Kok Int.Airport 163
San Francisco International 155
Seoul Incheon International Airport 147
Los Angeles International 145
New York Newark International 134
Toronto Lester Pearson Internatio 125
Tokyo Narita 117
Shanghai Pu Dong 113
Bombay 110

I'm surprised SFO is as big as it is. Bigger than LAX? I wonder how much of this is Genentech/Roche...
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 8205
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Swiss Airlines Intercontinental Routes

Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:42 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
If that confuses you consider that it makes more sense than Delta flying PHL-AMS!

DL doesn't fly PHL-AMS. But if you meant its PHL-CDG route, then the route makes perfect sense:
DL has a smaller aircraft that's more conducive to the route, one that it turns in CDG (an immunized J/V hub) and places into PHL.

Just another hub-spoke; what's confusing about that?

It's perhaps the most adept use of the benefits of ATI-- have someone with a better plane for the market, operate there for you.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
xorrygva
Posts: 38
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:32 pm

Re: Swiss Airlines Intercontinental Routes

Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:59 am

SFOA380 wrote:
I'm surprised SFO is as big as it is. Bigger than LAX? I wonder how much of this is Genentech/Roche...


Google has over 2000 employees in Zurich (and expects 5000 by 2020), this probably also explains SFO's demand from ZRH.
 
PhilInBRN
Posts: 283
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2009 3:30 pm

Re: Swiss Airlines Intercontinental Routes

Sun Apr 30, 2017 12:05 pm

ankaraflyjet wrote:
Thank you for this information,
Are these pax numbers per day? If so are these year-round? Where did you get these numbers from?
Thank you

PhilInBRN wrote:
filipair wrote:
A minor note about this last table. And please correct me if I'm wrong. But the data in this list (excel file tab C2) is not just indirect passengers to these destinations... it's total PDEW for nonstop (direct) AND connecting (indirect) passengers. The wording in the description is something like "Final destination of local passengers by city of departure." If that's the case, there may not be much more of a market to ICN that what is already served with the 3x weekly Korean Air flight.


For the last table, I actually subtracted pax on direct flight from total pax. So for ICN, total PDEW per day is 147, whereof 87 travel on the KE direct flight and 60 use stop-over flights.

Here are the top 10 unserved European routes from ZRH

Ankara Esenboga 27 --> in S17 served by GM (once weekly)
Tallinn 26
Bergen 21 --> in S17 served by LX (twice weekly)
Wroclaw 21
Tirana 20
Glasgow International 19
Gdansk 18
Billund 17
Bremen 17
Gaziantep 15

As you can see, O&D from ZRH is very well covered. Out of the above, Tirana (GM), Wroclaw (LX) and Tallinn (nordica) seem most likely to see future services. Keep in mind also that direct flights usually stimulate demand and there will be connecting pax on LX as well.

Here are the top 10 underserved European routes from ZRH

Edinburgh 39 --> frequency expaned in S17 by WK
Beirut 16
Göteborg Landvetter 16 --> capacity expanded in S17 by LX
Tromsö 13
Faro 12
Antalya 12
Lamezia Terme 11
Varna 11
Sarajevo 10
Aeroporto da Madeira 9
Fuerteventura 8

This is a clear indicator that connecting on intra-European flights is not a very common occurrence at ZRH. Most ZRH outbound pax connect to longhaul destinations.

I will later post some more figures in the Swiss Aviation thread.


It's pax per day (one-way). I calculated this using the O&D figures (full-year) in the table provided by the bureau of statistics and divided this figure by 365 to arrive at PDEW.
 
johnclipper
Posts: 496
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 5:44 am

Re: Swiss Airlines Intercontinental Routes

Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:21 pm

Is Swiss Global still operating the 77Ws?
"Flown every aircraft since the Wright Flyer" (guys, if you take this literally, then you need to get a life...)
 
User avatar
ankaraflyjet
Posts: 340
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:34 pm

Re: Swiss Airlines Intercontinental Routes

Sun Apr 30, 2017 7:52 pm

Thank you for the explanation

PhilInBRN wrote:
ankaraflyjet wrote:
Thank you for this information,
Are these pax numbers per day? If so are these year-round? Where did you get these numbers from?
Thank you

PhilInBRN wrote:

For the last table, I actually subtracted pax on direct flight from total pax. So for ICN, total PDEW per day is 147, whereof 87 travel on the KE direct flight and 60 use stop-over flights.

Here are the top 10 unserved European routes from ZRH

Ankara Esenboga 27 --> in S17 served by GM (once weekly)
Tallinn 26
Bergen 21 --> in S17 served by LX (twice weekly)
Wroclaw 21
Tirana 20
Glasgow International 19
Gdansk 18
Billund 17
Bremen 17
Gaziantep 15

As you can see, O&D from ZRH is very well covered. Out of the above, Tirana (GM), Wroclaw (LX) and Tallinn (nordica) seem most likely to see future services. Keep in mind also that direct flights usually stimulate demand and there will be connecting pax on LX as well.

Here are the top 10 underserved European routes from ZRH

Edinburgh 39 --> frequency expaned in S17 by WK
Beirut 16
Göteborg Landvetter 16 --> capacity expanded in S17 by LX
Tromsö 13
Faro 12
Antalya 12
Lamezia Terme 11
Varna 11
Sarajevo 10
Aeroporto da Madeira 9
Fuerteventura 8

This is a clear indicator that connecting on intra-European flights is not a very common occurrence at ZRH. Most ZRH outbound pax connect to longhaul destinations.

I will later post some more figures in the Swiss Aviation thread.


It's pax per day (one-way). I calculated this using the O&D figures (full-year) in the table provided by the bureau of statistics and divided this figure by 365 to arrive at PDEW.
 
LXA340
Posts: 1123
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 11:55 pm

Re: Swiss Airlines Intercontinental Routes

Sun May 07, 2017 12:30 pm

johnclipper wrote:
Is Swiss Global still operating the 77Ws?


SWISS Global is the pilot union of the former Crossair pilots, in the meanwhile various adjustments were made not going into details re contracts such as job opportunities, salaries etc nevertheless they are part of SWISS. Since there is no separate union of the cabin crews, these are anyhow from Swiss International Air Lines Ltd.
 
User avatar
glen
Posts: 296
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 4:43 pm

Re: Swiss Airlines Intercontinental Routes

Sun May 07, 2017 1:11 pm

LXA340 wrote:
johnclipper wrote:
Is Swiss Global still operating the 77Ws?


SWISS Global is the pilot union of the former Crossair pilots, in the meanwhile various adjustments were made not going into details re contracts such as job opportunities, salaries etc nevertheless they are part of SWISS. Since there is no separate union of the cabin crews, these are anyhow from Swiss International Air Lines Ltd.


Swiss Global is not a union.
In order to operate under different AOC's und with pilots under different contracts, Swiss was divided into two: "Swiss International" for the operation of former Swissair (i.e. Airbus fleet, pilots from Aeropers union) and "Swiss European" for the former Crossair operations (i.e. AVRO fleet, pilots union IPG).
With the B777, pilots under either contract started to operate. This was done under the AOC of Swiss European. As this name made no sense for the B777 operation, it was renamed "Swiss Global Airlines"
The unions in the meantime have merged under the only name "Aeropers".
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