LIPZ
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Busan (S.Korea) long-haul flights

Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:12 pm

We all know that Seoul apart from being the capital city represents by far the largest and most important metro area in South Korea.
That said anyway I was wondering why there are no direct long-haul services at all out of Busan, in the same way some "secondary" cities in China or Japan do.
It seems to me that Busan is a pretty large metro area, could selected flights to Europe/USA work?
 
Luisvalero
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Re: Busan (S.Korea) long-haul flights

Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:16 pm

I remember when LH used to operate MUC-PUS.

Maybe Air Busan/Korean/Jin air can operate PUS-HNL?
 
hoons90
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Re: Busan (S.Korea) long-haul flights

Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:19 pm

Infrastructure related constraints make it difficult for PUS to support long haul flights. A hydrant system will be installed in the near future to support the refueling of large aircraft for long haul flights, and a new runway with enough terrain clearance will be built as well.
The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
 
konkret
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Re: Busan (S.Korea) long-haul flights

Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:34 pm

Luisvalero wrote:
I remember when LH used to operate MUC-PUS.


Wasn't PUS just tagged onto ICN? (MUC-ICN-PUS)
 
Luisvalero
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Re: Busan (S.Korea) long-haul flights

Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:55 pm

konkret wrote:
Luisvalero wrote:
I remember when LH used to operate MUC-PUS.


Wasn't PUS just tagged onto ICN? (MUC-ICN-PUS)


Yes, You're right, The flight was MUC-ICN-PUS. A friend of mine, which has been flying from MUC to ICN several years, told me that the MUC-ICN segment had very good loads, but in the ICN-PUS segment the A340 was completely empty, just with an average of 30-40 passengers. Those passengers were coming from MUC not from ICN. Lufthansa didn't have rights between ICN and PUS. This was the reason why PUS was cancelled and LH continued flying MUC-ICN
 
303dk
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Re: Busan (S.Korea) long-haul flights

Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:03 am

Technically there's already service to the USA. Multiple airlines serve Guam and Saipan from PUS.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Busan (S.Korea) long-haul flights

Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:08 am

Mountainous terrain and engine out performance restrict performance at PUS. The terrain rises to 2165ft mere 4 miles from the runway end and above 3,000ft within 20nm.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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HELyes
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Re: Busan (S.Korea) long-haul flights

Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:27 am

hoons90 wrote:
Infrastructure related constraints make it difficult for PUS to support long haul flights. A hydrant system will be installed in the near future to support the refueling of large aircraft for long haul flights, and a new runway with enough terrain clearance will be built as well.


Any idea when PUS would be ready for long hauls? You kindly helped me with the Korean news article last spring when Finnair delegation visited Busan, would be cool if AY opened an other route to S. Korea.
 
Luisvalero
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Re: Busan (S.Korea) long-haul flights

Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:44 am

I always thought that soon or later one ME3 would have launched PUS, but they haven't.
I know EK has restrictions in South Korea, and it's allowed to operate just one daily flight to Seoul. Maybe QR can make DOH-PUS work. I could see EY launching something like AUH-PEK-PUS, like the currently AUH-PEK-NGO.
 
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hongkongflyer
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Re: Busan (S.Korea) long-haul flights

Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:08 am

LIPZ wrote:
We all know that Seoul apart from being the capital city represents by far the largest and most important metro area in South Korea.
That said anyway I was wondering why there are no direct long-haul services at all out of Busan, in the same way some "secondary" cities in China or Japan do.
It seems to me that Busan is a pretty large metro area, could selected flights to Europe/USA work?


Many long-haul flight from China secondary cities get susidiaries from local government for certain period.
After the period, it depends on whether the flight is profitable eg. KLM's AMS-Xiamen or not it got cancel eg. BA's LHR-CTU
 
usflyer msp
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Re: Busan (S.Korea) long-haul flights

Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:22 am

NW flew to PUS from NRT for a short time but it did not work out...
 
flyfresno
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Re: Busan (S.Korea) long-haul flights

Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:48 am

usflyer msp wrote:
NW flew to PUS from NRT for a short time but it did not work out...


I believe it even transitioned over to DAL for a short period after the merger.
 
hoons90
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Re: Busan (S.Korea) long-haul flights

Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:04 am

HELyes wrote:
hoons90 wrote:
Infrastructure related constraints make it difficult for PUS to support long haul flights. A hydrant system will be installed in the near future to support the refueling of large aircraft for long haul flights, and a new runway with enough terrain clearance will be built as well.


Any idea when PUS would be ready for long hauls? You kindly helped me with the Korean news article last spring when Finnair delegation visited Busan, would be cool if AY opened an other route to S. Korea.


The new hydrant refueling system should be in place sometime this year. The new runway and terminal isn't expected to be complete until 2026.
If Finnair wants to start PUS before that, they will have to either take a payload restriction on the Westbound flight, or add a stop-over somewhere.

Image
The new runway is the one highlighted in purple. It will face away from the mountainous terrain to the North (the same area where Air China crashed on approach back in 2002).

flyfresno wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
NW flew to PUS from NRT for a short time but it did not work out...


I believe it even transitioned over to DAL for a short period after the merger.


The flight operated from 2002 until 2013. Between 2002-2003, it was operated by A320s, and 757s from 2004-2013.

Luisvalero wrote:
I always thought that soon or later one ME3 would have launched PUS, but they haven't.
I know EK has restrictions in South Korea, and it's allowed to operate just one daily flight to Seoul. Maybe QR can make DOH-PUS work. I could see EY launching something like AUH-PEK-PUS, like the currently AUH-PEK-NGO.


EK requested rights to fly to PUS a few years ago, but nothing really came out of it.
The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
 
c152sy
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Re: Busan (S.Korea) long-haul flights

Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:19 am

So this is my take on things, mostly taken from experience.

Busan is well connected to East Asia’s main hubs e.g. Beijing, Guangzhou, Hong Kong, Shanghai Pudong, Taipei, Tokyo Narita and of course Incheon thus it is possible to fly almost anyway on one airline from Busan with just one stop. Of course, it is also possible to catch a KTX and arrive at Incheon Airport in about three hours for those not wanting to change flights. Thus one really needs to ask whether long haul flights to the city are necessary. In my opinion the international terminal (despite its expansion) is still too small to large numbers of passengers departing on widebody aircraft at similar times.

That said, many of the people I know here in Korea often oppose the idea of connecting in another nation in order to get to their destination and are willing to pay slightly more to avoid this. In fact, some of those I know living in the cities around Busan generally tend to look past the airport when searching for long haul flights, knowing that they will have to change flights and generally opposing this.
Thanks to the industries within the airport’s catchment area (shipyards in Geoje, the container port near Busan, factories in Changwon, Hyundai’s facilities in Ulsan and the steel factories in Pohang) I suspect that there is enough passenger traffic to/from Europe to support a route. Of course, there are also many Koreans who holiday and study Europe and likewise there are a reasonable number of Europeans who study and holiday in Korea.

Who could make it work?
I highly doubt OZ or KE would want to get involved in the opening of any new and potentially risky long haul ventures from Busan. Lufthansa have tried before, and so I don’t they’ll be trying again. KLM were set to open a AMS-PUS-FUK-AMS route in 2015 although this never took off and so I don’t they would be the airline to open a long haul route to Busan from Europe. Oneworld? British Airways – considering the fact that many of the Korean passengers (especially leisure passengers) will be bound for London, I highly doubt BA would do this, Finnair – perhaps? However I think the airline would be a member of Skyteam or Star Alliance and codeshare the route with KE/OZ. AF? Who knows.

(Ps if you consider a 6H20 flight within one continent to be long haul, then Busan does already have a long haul route in the form of AirAsiaX's Kuala Lumpur service! ;) )
Based in Seoul.
 
MON
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Re: Busan (S.Korea) long-haul flights

Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:42 am

KE at least serves BKK out of PUS.
 
Luisvalero
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Re: Busan (S.Korea) long-haul flights

Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:57 am

I Think Finnair is the better candidate to connect Busan to Europe. Finnair is sucesfull in North Asia, and mainly in Japan. They have expanded it's presence in Japan serving 4 key cities NRT, KIX, NGO and FUK ( the remaing big route underserved is CTS, which i think it can work). Now it's time to expand in South Korea. The only candidate i can Think is PUS. Finnair is the best option, the flight would take 9h until it arrives to HEL, and then plenty of connections to Europe. Korean citizens, in general, travel a Lot and are quite wealthy. I can see Finnair starting 3 weekly HEL-PUS with it's new 359
 
flyfresno
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Re: Busan (S.Korea) long-haul flights

Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:14 pm

hoons90 wrote:
Image
The new runway is the one highlighted in purple. It will face away from the mountainous terrain to the North (the same area where Air China crashed on approach back in 2002).


I could see the 787 potentially serving LAX or YVR out of PUS, depending on who the airline is. There is likely enough traffic for a few flights per week. They're going to have to figure out how to use all those new gates on that photo ^^^
 
HeeseokKoo
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Re: Busan (S.Korea) long-haul flights

Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:38 pm

Luisvalero wrote:
I always thought that soon or later one ME3 would have launched PUS, but they haven't.
I know EK has restrictions in South Korea, and it's allowed to operate just one daily flight to Seoul. Maybe QR can make DOH-PUS work. I could see EY launching something like AUH-PEK-PUS, like the currently AUH-PEK-NGO.

All ME carriers have restrictions. They are using all operational rights or some of them have 1 extra weekly left. (granted only 7 or 8/w for each carriers)

Luisvalero wrote:
I Think Finnair is the better candidate to connect Busan to Europe. Finnair is sucesfull in North Asia, and mainly in Japan. They have expanded it's presence in Japan serving 4 key cities NRT, KIX, NGO and FUK ( the remaing big route underserved is CTS, which i think it can work). Now it's time to expand in South Korea. The only candidate i can Think is PUS. Finnair is the best option, the flight would take 9h until it arrives to HEL, and then plenty of connections to Europe. Korean citizens, in general, travel a Lot and are quite wealthy. I can see Finnair starting 3 weekly HEL-PUS with it's new 359

AY was one of the most recent carriers who tried PUS. AY wanted 5/w or more but Korean Gov lobbied by KE+OZ granted only 3/w. I do agree that 3/w should be enough to begin with.. probably it was just a Busan-area local media that exaggerated the story.

More than 50% of SK population lives in or near Seoul (and the rate could become 60% if foreigners and temporary out-of-home livings are included), and like France, ground transportation is heavily focused to/from the capital city. Even smaller cities in 1-hour drive distance from PUS, there's a nonstop bus to ICN but none to PUS. In other words, PUS covers only 15% or less of the population while ICN covers remainders. But the rise of LCC and adding runway etc. will definitely change the scene in near future.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Busan (S.Korea) long-haul flights

Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:09 pm

flyfresno wrote:
hoons90 wrote:
Image
The new runway is the one highlighted in purple. It will face away from the mountainous terrain to the North (the same area where Air China crashed on approach back in 2002).


I could see the 787 potentially serving LAX or YVR out of PUS, depending on who the airline is. There is likely enough traffic for a few flights per week. They're going to have to figure out how to use all those new gates on that photo ^^^

3x weekly on a 788 could work on UA to SFO.
Eat 'em up Kats!
 
N292UX
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Re: Busan (S.Korea) long-haul flights

Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:58 pm

NW flew to Busan for a while. I believe from NRT.
 
flyfresno
Posts: 158
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Re: Busan (S.Korea) long-haul flights

Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:44 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
flyfresno wrote:
hoons90 wrote:
Image
The new runway is the one highlighted in purple. It will face away from the mountainous terrain to the North (the same area where Air China crashed on approach back in 2002).


I could see the 787 potentially serving LAX or YVR out of PUS, depending on who the airline is. There is likely enough traffic for a few flights per week. They're going to have to figure out how to use all those new gates on that photo ^^^

3x weekly on a 788 could work on UA to SFO.


Eh, I'm not too sure about that for two reasons. 1) While the Bay Area definitely has one of the top 5 largest Korean populations in the US, there are way, way more Koreans in both LA and Vancouver (120,000+ in SoCal and 50,000+ in the Vancouver metro area, 25,000+ in the Bay Area). 2) Korea has not been a super strong market for UA (I think there is an ICN thread floating around about that). While they have shown an affinity for serving "smaller" (relatively) Asian markets out of SFO on the 787 (KIX, CTU, etc), the combination of new leadership and a less optimistic outlook for the international market in the future leads me to believe that there will be fewer new routes like those going forward. I think KE would be the best bet for this route.
 
bzcat
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Re: Busan (S.Korea) long-haul flights

Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:30 pm

To some extend, Busan has the same problem as Osaka or Manchester... Yields not as good as nearby national mega hub / business financial center (Seoul, Tokyo or London) so foreign airlines would rather focus on those hub; and it is a reasonable short high speed train ride away. And on the other hand, there is excellent short haul international flight connections that offers good 1-stop long haul choices, which further diminishes the number of passengers for non-stop flights.
 
devyanks90
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Re: Busan (S.Korea) long-haul flights

Sat Apr 22, 2017 12:02 am

c152sy wrote:
In my opinion the international terminal (despite its expansion) is still too small to large numbers of passengers departing on widebody aircraft at similar times.


Not sure if it has been expanded since 2014, but I agree adding ~300 passengers into the international terminal at PUS would be tough.

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