FlyinRabbit88
Topic Author
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Passenger assaults AA pilot in MCI.

Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:01 am

Ok with all the outrage on how passengers are tired of how they are treated by airline employees, I as flight crew am tired of some passengers thinking they are above the law towards crew. From the video, this passenger thinks it's ok to snap a photo of an AA pilot ID and doesn't like it when the pilot tries to block the attempt and ends up knocking the cell phone out of his hands. The man proceeds to attack the pilot in the terminal and while he tries to get in his wife's car.
Enough is enough. This goes both ways, if employees act badly they should be punished the same as passengers acting badly towards employees.

http://www.kmbc.com/article/watch-passe ... rt/9531047
 
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DocLightning
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Re: Passenger assaults AA pilot in MCI.

Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:04 am

FlyinRabbit88 wrote:
Enough is enough. This goes both ways, if employees act badly they should be punished the same as passengers acting badly towards employees.


Is there a point to this rant? Of course, passengers should not be permitted to assault crew. Does that make up for crappy service across the industry in general? No, it has nothing to do with it. Assault is illegal in just about every jurisdiction on the planet. What's your point?
-Doc Lightning-

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roadpilot
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Re: Passenger assaults AA pilot in MCI.

Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:31 am

I think the point of his rant is that people now think that they are gonna be able to get away with assaulting crew members because airlines are gonna be scared of being the target of the next PR nightmare. I wouldn't be shocked if AA told this pilot to not press charges initially to avoid this getting out.
 
sldispatcher
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Re: Passenger assaults AA pilot in MCI.

Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:42 am

DocLightning wrote:

Is there a point to this rant? Of course, passengers should not be permitted to assault crew. Does that make up for crappy service across the industry in general? What's your point?


That was sort of typical a.net rude.

I fly quite a bit each year and it the norm to have efficient, if not always warm, personnel. So many issues with travel seemed to be caused by things directly out of control by front line staff. The way I have seen some gate agents berated is just not normal behavior. I consider someone taking a picture of an employee badge pretty bold, especially if permission was not given by the badge wearer. I long for the days when manners and politeness were the rule and not the exception brought on by this "me first/I can do whatever I want society".

Maybe there will be more to this story come out in the coming days?
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Passenger assaults AA pilot in MCI.

Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:05 am

A passenger I was checking in took a picture behind the counter in my direction. It looked like his camera was pointing directly at my ID in the middle of my chest. I told him I did not give consent for that picture and insisted he delete it. He showed me the picture and he was just taking a picture of his bags. He couldve just swiped fast to show the picture if his bags, but i wasnt about to jump over the counter to let him have it over a stupid picture that he may or may not have taken.

The point is there are proper ways to tell someone no. Yeah the passenger shouldn't have taken the picture, but the pilot shouldn't have acted that way in return.
Last edited by TWA772LR on Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
Eat 'em up Kats!
 
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ssteve
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Re: Passenger assaults AA pilot in MCI.

Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:09 am

FlyinRabbit88 wrote:
I as flight crew am tired of some passengers thinking they are above the law towards crew.


*customers.
 
PDX88
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Re: Passenger assaults AA pilot in MCI.

Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:42 am

ssteve wrote:
FlyinRabbit88 wrote:
I as flight crew am tired of some passengers thinking they are above the law towards crew.


*customers.


Really? Is "passengers" inappropriate or offensive to you? Yeesh
 
Freshside3
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Re: Passenger assaults AA pilot in MCI.

Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:12 am

I'd say, sue the rotten SOB.
 
bgm
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Re: Passenger assaults AA pilot in MCI.

Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:32 am

ssteve wrote:
FlyinRabbit88 wrote:
I as flight crew am tired of some passengers thinking they are above the law towards crew.


*customers.


*self-loading cargo.
"When you're born you get a ticket to the freak show. When you're born in America, you get a front row seat." -George Carlin
 
flyboy730
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Re: Passenger assaults AA pilot in MCI.

Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:42 am

I don't care what we call them but, kudos to this pilot for holding back.
 
grbauc
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Re: Passenger assaults AA pilot in MCI.

Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:54 am

DocLightning wrote:
FlyinRabbit88 wrote:
Enough is enough. This goes both ways, if employees act badly they should be punished the same as passengers acting badly towards employees.


Is there a point to this rant? Of course, passengers should not be permitted to assault crew. Does that make up for crappy service across the industry in general? No, it has nothing to do with it. Assault is illegal in just about every jurisdiction on the planet. What's your point?


Crappy seats and amenities and what people want. Cheap airfare. Being treated with respect and in a civil manor happens to me the majority of times. Rarely does not being treated civil and with respect happen. Its wrong on both sides and is not acceptable to be rude and uncivil. Out rage over the conditions of cheap travel (tighter pitch, lack of free meals etc) Is ridiculous pay more. I do and am pretty happy with the results (paying more). If your outraged at the Very Few Militant GA FA That go on power trips and police that don't use there brains but brawn at the first option I get that. It seems your mixing the two. I could be wrong..
 
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scbriml
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Re: Passenger assaults AA pilot in MCI.

Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:02 am

PDX88 wrote:
Really? Is "passengers" inappropriate or offensive to you? Yeesh


Really? Is "customers" (who pay my wages, lest I forget) inappropriate or offensive to you? Yeesh
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
Sancho99504
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Re: Passenger assaults AA pilot in MCI.

Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:04 am

What the heck happened to this site? Are we really going to nitpick over passenger, customer, client, guest...etc, while being a complete dick about it? This free crap has really degraded this site and I now completely understand why some people I know, left. Sad really.
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
PDX88
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Re: Passenger assaults AA pilot in MCI.

Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:42 am

jethawk wrote:
Really? Is "customers" (who pay my wages, lest I forget) inappropriate or offensive to you? Yeesh


Not at all, but my point was "passengers" is completely fine to use on an airline forum, the correction wasn't necessary.
 
slvrblt
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Re: Passenger assaults AA pilot in MCI.

Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:11 pm

Sancho99504 wrote:
What the heck happened to this site? Are we really going to nitpick over passenger, customer, client, guest...etc, while being a complete dick about it? This free crap has really degraded this site and I now completely understand why some people I know, left. Sad really.


Precisely what I was thinking.
..everything works out in the end.
 
FlyUSAir
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Re: Passenger assaults AA pilot in MCI.

Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:21 pm

Pilot needs to be fired. No excuse for assault but you don't slap someone's phone out of someone's hands. The aircraft is private property and the employees can stop any unwanted photography they want but an airport (usually) is limited-public property meaning if you have business there, you have every right in the world to take all the pictures you want of anything and everyone (minus the usual areas like TSA screens, bathrooms, off limit areas etc).
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MIflyer12
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Re: Passenger assaults AA pilot in MCI.

Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:27 pm

FlyUSAir wrote:
Pilot needs to be fired. No excuse for assault but you don't slap someone's phone out of someone's hands. The aircraft is private property and the employees can stop any unwanted photography they want but an airport (usually) is limited-public property meaning if you have business there, you have every right in the world to take all the pictures you want of anything and everyone (minus the usual areas like TSA screens, bathrooms, off limit areas etc).


It took 17 posts but somebody finally got around to relevant U.S. law. One can have no expectation of privacy (denying photos, for example) in a public place - places like public toilets excepted. The passenger can't shove the pilot but the pilot can't knock the phone out of the passenger's hand, either.
 
flyingcat
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Re: Passenger assaults AA pilot in MCI.

Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:28 pm

While I don't support any shoving there is one thing that cops and authority figure always forget. There is no expectation of privacy in a public setting, you cannot order someone to delete photos taken of you. I don't agree with the man's method, shoving a camera in someones face is idiotic but there are numerous cases to back this up.

Can they arrest you sure, but it never holds up in court. But the minute you get physical you have lost legal backing.
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: Passenger assaults AA pilot in MCI.

Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:33 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
A passenger I was checking in took a picture behind the counter in my direction. It looked like his camera was pointing directly at my ID in the middle of my chest. I told him I did not give consent for that picture and insisted he delete it. He showed me the picture and he was just taking a picture of his bags. He couldve just swiped fast to show the picture if his bags, but i wasnt about to jump over the counter to let him have it over a stupid picture that he may or may not have taken.

The point is there are proper ways to tell someone no. Yeah the passenger shouldn't have taken the picture, but the pilot shouldn't have acted that way in return.


Just trying to understand - if the passenger was taking a picture of your ID were you afraid they'd have your information to report you? I don't understand what the fear is.
 
FlyUSAir
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Re: Passenger assaults AA pilot in MCI.

Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:39 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:

It took 17 posts but somebody finally got around to relevant U.S. law. One can have no expectation of privacy (denying photos, for example) in a public place - places like public toilets excepted. The passenger can't shove the pilot but the pilot can't knock the phone out of the passenger's hand, either.


flyingcat wrote:
While I don't support any shoving there is one thing that cops and authority figure always forget. There is no expectation of privacy in a public setting, you cannot order someone to delete photos taken of you. I don't agree with the man's method, shoving a camera in someones face is idiotic but there are numerous cases to back this up.

Can they arrest you sure, but it never holds up in court. But the minute you get physical you have lost legal backing.


:thumbsup: :thumbsup: Yep, passenger was in the right and could've got been completely fine if he didn't get physical. Now that he did, however, his legal case is out the window.
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Bricktop
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Re: Passenger assaults AA pilot in MCI.

Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:42 pm

FlyUSAir wrote:
Pilot needs to be fired. No excuse for assault but you don't slap someone's phone out of someone's hands. The aircraft is private property and the employees can stop any unwanted photography they want but an airport (usually) is limited-public property meaning if you have business there, you have every right in the world to take all the pictures you want of anything and everyone (minus the usual areas like TSA screens, bathrooms, off limit areas etc).

AYFKM? Every right in the world? Did you watch the video??? That's the entitled attitude that causes many of the problems in society these days. Bravo to the pilot! "I didn't know what this nutjob was trying to do. I thought he was going to hit me so I defended myself".
 
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zeke
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Re: Passenger assaults AA pilot in MCI.

Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:44 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
It took 17 posts but somebody finally got around to relevant U.S. law. One can have no expectation of privacy (denying photos, for example) in a public place - places like public toilets excepted. The passenger can't shove the pilot but the pilot can't knock the phone out of the passenger's hand, either.


I don't need to be told not to take photos of a police officers id, a FAA id, a TSA id, customs id, mechanis id or anyone else working in a security sensitive environment.

If a passenger wants to identify an employee it's easy via the flight number and location.

I would be concerned why they need a photo, are they planning to photoshop it and colour print it ?

Personally I would put it in my pocket and walk to the nearest law enforcement officer to get the passenger to explain their actions.

Never has anyone done this to me after decades of flying, this is not a normal situation.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
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mbmbos
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Re: Passenger assaults AA pilot in MCI.

Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:45 pm

sldispatcher wrote:
DocLightning wrote:

Is there a point to this rant? Of course, passengers should not be permitted to assault crew. Does that make up for crappy service across the industry in general? What's your point?


That was sort of typical a.net rude.



I don't think it's typical. I don't think his comment is rude. And I think he has a point.

By the way, don't know if you've ever read any Emily Post or Miss Manners, but pointing out that someone is rude by telling them they're rude is...wait for it...RUDE!

(Now that was pretty rude of me)
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FlyUSAir
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Re: Passenger assaults AA pilot in MCI.

Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:48 pm

zeke wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
It took 17 posts but somebody finally got around to relevant U.S. law. One can have no expectation of privacy (denying photos, for example) in a public place - places like public toilets excepted. The passenger can't shove the pilot but the pilot can't knock the phone out of the passenger's hand, either.


I don't need to be told not to take photos of a police officers id, a FAA id, a TSA id, customs id, mechanis id or anyone else working in a security sensitive environment.

If a passenger wants to identify an employee it's easy via the flight number and location.

I would be concerned why they need a photo, are they planning to photoshop it and colour print it ?

Personally I would put it in my pocket and walk to the nearest law enforcement officer to get the passenger to explain their actions.

Never has anyone done this to me after decades of flying, this is not a normal situation.


You would then be arrested for theft.
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Bricktop
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Re: Passenger assaults AA pilot in MCI.

Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:49 pm

FlyUSAir wrote:
zeke wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
It took 17 posts but somebody finally got around to relevant U.S. law. One can have no expectation of privacy (denying photos, for example) in a public place - places like public toilets excepted. The passenger can't shove the pilot but the pilot can't knock the phone out of the passenger's hand, either.


I don't need to be told not to take photos of a police officers id, a FAA id, a TSA id, customs id, mechanis id or anyone else working in a security sensitive environment.

If a passenger wants to identify an employee it's easy via the flight number and location.

I would be concerned why they need a photo, are they planning to photoshop it and colour print it ?

Personally I would put it in my pocket and walk to the nearest law enforcement officer to get the passenger to explain their actions.

Never has anyone done this to me after decades of flying, this is not a normal situation.


You would then be arrested for theft.

I think zeke is referring to putting his ID in his pocket.
 
jersey777
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Re: Passenger assaults AA pilot in MCI.

Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:51 pm

After watching the video, it looks like the passenger was the aggressor. All this after the pilot was supposedly "disrespectful" by taking too much time in the aisle? The passenger literally stalks the guy and shoves a camera at him. I would have smacked it out of his hand too!
 
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zeke
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Re: Passenger assaults AA pilot in MCI.

Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:59 pm

Bricktop wrote:
I think zeke is referring to putting his ID in his pocket.


Correct
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
JohnsonRod
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Re: Passenger assaults AA pilot in MCI.

Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:16 pm

jersey777 wrote:
After watching the video, it looks like the passenger was the aggressor. All this after the pilot was supposedly "disrespectful" by taking too much time in the aisle? The passenger literally stalks the guy and shoves a camera at him. I would have smacked it out of his hand too!


But as is very typical in today's society, people are taking the side of the complainant without knowing all of the facts. It has gotten so bad. Videos are out there that only show part of the story after much of the aggression has taken place. And everyone jumps right onboard the mob wagon. Social media needs to be policed much more. Because this kind of issue is causing much more harm to businesses than is often deserved. And to individuals in this case.
 
gonnagetbumpy
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Re: Passenger assaults AA pilot in MCI.

Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:29 pm

Many customers, in general, are beyond rude the moment they get to the airport. I think it is because they are expecting the worst and at times they get the worst, however, it is certainly a two way street. I regularly see airlines get the blame for things that they shouldn't. I would say it is also really hard to give service with a smile when customers are berating an individual for something they have little ability to control.

Also, I'm as big of a Delta fan boy as they come but the comment of saying they are trying to run a business and the others aren't is ridiculous. I do think Delta is much better than the other US carriers, however, they have issues too and it certainly isn't appropriate to bash other airlines in a blanket statement like that. I don't think 'Delta employees' in general are arrogant and also a statement that isn't true, some definitely are but the group as an entirety is not.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Passenger assaults AA pilot in MCI.

Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:19 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
A passenger I was checking in took a picture behind the counter in my direction. It looked like his camera was pointing directly at my ID in the middle of my chest. I told him I did not give consent for that picture and insisted he delete it. He showed me the picture and he was just taking a picture of his bags. He couldve just swiped fast to show the picture if his bags, but i wasnt about to jump over the counter to let him have it over a stupid picture that he may or may not have taken.

The point is there are proper ways to tell someone no. Yeah the passenger shouldn't have taken the picture, but the pilot shouldn't have acted that way in return.


Just trying to understand - if the passenger was taking a picture of your ID were you afraid they'd have your information to report you? I don't understand what the fear is.

They are not allowed to take pictures of govt (city, state, federal) IDs, especially not without consent of the badge holder. My SIDA badge was facing out and I don't want my name out there for the world to see. We even took delays and cancellations a couple times and some pax took pictures of the boarding area that had me and the other agents in it and posted it to the airlines Twitter. They can't do that neither without consent, and I definitely don't want to be associated with an airline in a social media post aimed at shaming the airline. I just don't want my name to be slandered is all.
Eat 'em up Kats!
 
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ssteve
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Re: Passenger assaults AA pilot in MCI.

Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:02 pm

PDX88 wrote:
ssteve wrote:
FlyinRabbit88 wrote:
I as flight crew am tired of some passengers thinking they are above the law towards crew.


*customers.


Really? Is "passengers" inappropriate or offensive to you? Yeesh


No, the words passengers isn't offensive.

Calling them customers really steamed a bunch of people though, which is telling.
 
INFINITI329
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Re: Passenger assaults AA pilot in MCI.

Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:07 pm

zeke wrote:


You have to no expectation of privacy in a public setting. You can call the police all you want, they is no crime being committed. Security sensitive or not is no crime has been committed or is being committed there is nothing for law enforcement to do. There is a difference between going in someone's wallet vs taking a picture of an id vs one that's publicly displayed. You'd lose in court every time.

TWA772LR wrote:

There is no blanket law that bans the photography of said ids. The is a federal law that protects federal ids, but it would stretch to prosecute someone under the statute when the id incidentally caught.
 
C767P
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Re: Passenger assaults AA pilot in MCI.

Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:22 pm

FlyUSAir wrote:
Pilot needs to be fired. No excuse for assault but you don't slap someone's phone out of someone's hands. The aircraft is private property and the employees can stop any unwanted photography they want but an airport (usually) is limited-public property meaning if you have business there, you have every right in the world to take all the pictures you want of anything and everyone (minus the usual areas like TSA screens, bathrooms, off limit areas etc).


Did you watch the video? How the pilot didn't slug that idiot is beyond me.

You need to run this scenario where ANYONE approaches you like this fool did to that pilot and see how YOU react.

"Pilot needs to be fired" is EVERYTHING that is wrong with the world in 2017. We are all doomed.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: Passenger assaults AA pilot in MCI.

Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:24 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
A passenger I was checking in took a picture behind the counter in my direction. It looked like his camera was pointing directly at my ID in the middle of my chest. I told him I did not give consent for that picture and insisted he delete it. He showed me the picture and he was just taking a picture of his bags. He couldve just swiped fast to show the picture if his bags, but i wasnt about to jump over the counter to let him have it over a stupid picture that he may or may not have taken.

The point is there are proper ways to tell someone no. Yeah the passenger shouldn't have taken the picture, but the pilot shouldn't have acted that way in return.


Just trying to understand - if the passenger was taking a picture of your ID were you afraid they'd have your information to report you? I don't understand what the fear is.


That is how counterfeit ID's are created, take a picture of real one and then create a fake from it. Taking pictures of airport badges and Airline ID's are big no-no at the airport....
 
727200
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Re: Passenger assaults AA pilot in MCI.

Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:36 pm

Pretty obvious to me who the 'wanna-be's' on this site are; as in "I fly once a year so I know everything." Reality is the AA guy should have made a citizens arrest on the guy for harassment and assault, then made sure he didn't 'resist' anymore; if you get what I mean. Lot's of restraint by the AA guy; more than I would have taken.
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: Passenger assaults AA pilot in MCI.

Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:45 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
A passenger I was checking in took a picture behind the counter in my direction. It looked like his camera was pointing directly at my ID in the middle of my chest. I told him I did not give consent for that picture and insisted he delete it. He showed me the picture and he was just taking a picture of his bags. He couldve just swiped fast to show the picture if his bags, but i wasnt about to jump over the counter to let him have it over a stupid picture that he may or may not have taken.

The point is there are proper ways to tell someone no. Yeah the passenger shouldn't have taken the picture, but the pilot shouldn't have acted that way in return.


Just trying to understand - if the passenger was taking a picture of your ID were you afraid they'd have your information to report you? I don't understand what the fear is.

They are not allowed to take pictures of govt (city, state, federal) IDs, especially not without consent of the badge holder. My SIDA badge was facing out and I don't want my name out there for the world to see. We even took delays and cancellations a couple times and some pax took pictures of the boarding area that had me and the other agents in it and posted it to the airlines Twitter. They can't do that neither without consent, and I definitely don't want to be associated with an airline in a social media post aimed at shaming the airline. I just don't want my name to be slandered is all.


Are you a gov't employee or airline employee? The post sounded like an airline employee since you said you were checking in the individual who snapped the pic.
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: Passenger assaults AA pilot in MCI.

Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:48 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
A passenger I was checking in took a picture behind the counter in my direction. It looked like his camera was pointing directly at my ID in the middle of my chest. I told him I did not give consent for that picture and insisted he delete it. He showed me the picture and he was just taking a picture of his bags. He couldve just swiped fast to show the picture if his bags, but i wasnt about to jump over the counter to let him have it over a stupid picture that he may or may not have taken.

The point is there are proper ways to tell someone no. Yeah the passenger shouldn't have taken the picture, but the pilot shouldn't have acted that way in return.


Just trying to understand - if the passenger was taking a picture of your ID were you afraid they'd have your information to report you? I don't understand what the fear is.


That is how counterfeit ID's are created, take a picture of real one and then create a fake from it. Taking pictures of airport badges and Airline ID's are big no-no at the airport....


That might be true, but it sounds linke most airline employees just don't want passengers having their info to report their bad behavior as opposed to being afraid someone might create a counterfeit badge.

Also - hasn't it already been mentioned that people have the right to take photos in airports outside of controlled areas like security screening and customs areas. Sounds like check in counters are safe to snap photos.
Last edited by clrd4t8koff on Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Passenger assaults AA pilot in MCI.

Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:48 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:

Just trying to understand - if the passenger was taking a picture of your ID were you afraid they'd have your information to report you? I don't understand what the fear is.

They are not allowed to take pictures of govt (city, state, federal) IDs, especially not without consent of the badge holder. My SIDA badge was facing out and I don't want my name out there for the world to see. We even took delays and cancellations a couple times and some pax took pictures of the boarding area that had me and the other agents in it and posted it to the airlines Twitter. They can't do that neither without consent, and I definitely don't want to be associated with an airline in a social media post aimed at shaming the airline. I just don't want my name to be slandered is all.


Are you a gov't employee or airline employee? The post sounded like an airline employee since you said you were checking in the individual who snapped the pic.

I was an airline employee with a government-issued SIDA badge.
Eat 'em up Kats!
 
Sancho99504
Posts: 360
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:44 pm

Re: Passenger assaults AA pilot in MCI.

Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:21 pm

flyingcat wrote:
While I don't support any shoving there is one thing that cops and authority figure always forget. There is no expectation of privacy in a public setting, you cannot order someone to delete photos taken of you. I don't agree with the man's method, shoving a camera in someones face is idiotic but there are numerous cases to back this up.

Can they arrest you sure, but it never holds up in court. But the minute you get physical you have lost legal backing.

in the state of Washington, it is against state law to photograph, video or voice recorder anyone without their permission. I do believe there are exceptions, but the wording is very broad.
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
FlyUSAir
Posts: 388
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:26 am

Re: Passenger assaults AA pilot in MCI.

Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:32 pm

Sancho99504 wrote:
flyingcat wrote:
While I don't support any shoving there is one thing that cops and authority figure always forget. There is no expectation of privacy in a public setting, you cannot order someone to delete photos taken of you. I don't agree with the man's method, shoving a camera in someones face is idiotic but there are numerous cases to back this up.

Can they arrest you sure, but it never holds up in court. But the minute you get physical you have lost legal backing.

in the state of Washington, it is against state law to photograph, video or voice recorder anyone without their permission. I do believe there are exceptions, but the wording is very broad.


No, it's not, it's perfectly legal in all 50 states as long as you are on public property. The Supreme Court has ruled so, and that trumps any state/local laws.
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surfdog75
Posts: 249
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 5:39 am

Re: Passenger assaults AA pilot in MCI.

Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:43 pm

FlyUSAir wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

It took 17 posts but somebody finally got around to relevant U.S. law. One can have no expectation of privacy (denying photos, for example) in a public place - places like public toilets excepted. The passenger can't shove the pilot but the pilot can't knock the phone out of the passenger's hand, either.


flyingcat wrote:
While I don't support any shoving there is one thing that cops and authority figure always forget. There is no expectation of privacy in a public setting, you cannot order someone to delete photos taken of you. I don't agree with the man's method, shoving a camera in someones face is idiotic but there are numerous cases to back this up.

Can they arrest you sure, but it never holds up in court. But the minute you get physical you have lost legal backing.


:thumbsup: :thumbsup: Yep, passenger was in the right and could've got been completely fine if he didn't get physical. Now that he did, however, his legal case is out the window.


Are you freaking kidding me? The guy basically chased the pilot through the terminal and jammed a phone in his face, Looked like assault to me even before he started shoving. The pilot did nothing but raise his hand. I hope the jerk spends a couple days in prison to contemplate what an ahole he is. Unfortunately the world is becoming overrun by people like him. Kudos to the airline employees who show so much restraint and provide great service on a daily basis.
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 2596
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: Passenger assaults AA pilot in MCI.

Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:49 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:

Just trying to understand - if the passenger was taking a picture of your ID were you afraid they'd have your information to report you? I don't understand what the fear is.


That is how counterfeit ID's are created, take a picture of real one and then create a fake from it. Taking pictures of airport badges and Airline ID's are big no-no at the airport....


That might be true, but it sounds linke most airline employees just don't want passengers having their info to report their bad behavior as opposed to being afraid someone might create a counterfeit badge.

Also - hasn't it already been mentioned that people have the right to take photos in airports outside of controlled areas like security screening and customs areas. Sounds like check in counters are safe to snap photos.


Just because photography is allowed does not mean you can take photos of anything. Taking a picture of the pilot = fine. Taking a picture of his badge = absolutely not as that is security sensitive information...
 
clrd4t8koff
Posts: 864
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:57 am

Re: Passenger assaults AA pilot in MCI.

Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:07 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:

That is how counterfeit ID's are created, take a picture of real one and then create a fake from it. Taking pictures of airport badges and Airline ID's are big no-no at the airport....


That might be true, but it sounds linke most airline employees just don't want passengers having their info to report their bad behavior as opposed to being afraid someone might create a counterfeit badge.

Also - hasn't it already been mentioned that people have the right to take photos in airports outside of controlled areas like security screening and customs areas. Sounds like check in counters are safe to snap photos.


Just because photography is allowed does not mean you can take photos of anything. Taking a picture of the pilot = fine. Taking a picture of his badge = absolutely not as that is security sensitive information...


I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but outside of the aircraft where is one going to get fined taking a picture of a pilot? Heck I'm seeing media reports now of the incident with photos of the pilot and passenger fighting. Is that individual who took the photos and videos going to be fined?
 
sw733
Posts: 5434
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:19 am

Re: Passenger assaults AA pilot in MCI.

Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:48 pm

Sancho99504 wrote:
flyingcat wrote:
While I don't support any shoving there is one thing that cops and authority figure always forget. There is no expectation of privacy in a public setting, you cannot order someone to delete photos taken of you. I don't agree with the man's method, shoving a camera in someones face is idiotic but there are numerous cases to back this up.

Can they arrest you sure, but it never holds up in court. But the minute you get physical you have lost legal backing.

in the state of Washington, it is against state law to photograph, video or voice recorder anyone without their permission. I do believe there are exceptions, but the wording is very broad.


Whether or not that is the truth, this happened in Missouri so Washington law is moot.
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 2596
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: Passenger assaults AA pilot in MCI.

Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:02 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:

That might be true, but it sounds linke most airline employees just don't want passengers having their info to report their bad behavior as opposed to being afraid someone might create a counterfeit badge.

Also - hasn't it already been mentioned that people have the right to take photos in airports outside of controlled areas like security screening and customs areas. Sounds like check in counters are safe to snap photos.


Just because photography is allowed does not mean you can take photos of anything. Taking a picture of the pilot = fine. Taking a picture of his badge = absolutely not as that is security sensitive information...


I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but outside of the aircraft where is one going to get fined taking a picture of a pilot? Heck I'm seeing media reports now of the incident with photos of the pilot and passenger fighting. Is that individual who took the photos and videos going to be fined?


I am not quite sure where we are disagreeing. You can take photos, just not of security sensitive areas and documents like airport badges and airline ID's
 
User avatar
DDR
Posts: 1083
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:09 pm

Re: Passenger assaults AA pilot in MCI.

Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:03 pm

The video proves the pilot was assulted. End of story.
 
Sancho99504
Posts: 360
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:44 pm

Re: Passenger assaults AA pilot in MCI.

Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:29 pm

sw733 wrote:
Sancho99504 wrote:
flyingcat wrote:
While I don't support any shoving there is one thing that cops and authority figure always forget. There is no expectation of privacy in a public setting, you cannot order someone to delete photos taken of you. I don't agree with the man's method, shoving a camera in someones face is idiotic but there are numerous cases to back this up.

Can they arrest you sure, but it never holds up in court. But the minute you get physical you have lost legal backing.

in the state of Washington, it is against state law to photograph, video or voice recorder anyone without their permission. I do believe there are exceptions, but the wording is very broad.


Whether or not that is the truth, this happened in Missouri so Washington law is moot.


The comment was in response to there being no expectations of privacy in public. Therefore, whether you like it or not, is a valid comment.
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
Sancho99504
Posts: 360
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:44 pm

Re: Passenger assaults AA pilot in MCI.

Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:31 pm

FlyUSAir wrote:
Sancho99504 wrote:
flyingcat wrote:
While I don't support any shoving there is one thing that cops and authority figure always forget. There is no expectation of privacy in a public setting, you cannot order someone to delete photos taken of you. I don't agree with the man's method, shoving a camera in someones face is idiotic but there are numerous cases to back this up.

Can they arrest you sure, but it never holds up in court. But the minute you get physical you have lost legal backing.

in the state of Washington, it is against state law to photograph, video or voice recorder anyone without their permission. I do believe there are exceptions, but the wording is very broad.


No, it's not, it's perfectly legal in all 50 states as long as you are on public property. The Supreme Court has ruled so, and that trumps any state/local laws.


Washington law is very clear. Regardless of constitutional legality, it is on the books and has been for at least 20 years. I do believe it falls under voyeurism and is a misdemeanor.
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
Trololzilla
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2016 11:53 pm

Re: Passenger assaults AA pilot in MCI.

Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:07 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but outside of the aircraft where is one going to get fined taking a picture of a pilot? Heck I'm seeing media reports now of the incident with photos of the pilot and passenger fighting. Is that individual who took the photos and videos going to be fined?

He said that it was fine (as in okay) to take a picture of the pilot but not of the ID. It was not a 'fine' in the punitive sense.
 
clrd4t8koff
Posts: 864
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:57 am

Re: Passenger assaults AA pilot in MCI.

Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:19 pm

Trololzilla wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but outside of the aircraft where is one going to get fined taking a picture of a pilot? Heck I'm seeing media reports now of the incident with photos of the pilot and passenger fighting. Is that individual who took the photos and videos going to be fined?

He said that it was fine (as in okay) to take a picture of the pilot but not of the ID. It was not a 'fine' in the punitive sense.


Ah, thank you. I mis-read the post.

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