Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
FlyinRabbit88 wrote:Enough is enough. This goes both ways, if employees act badly they should be punished the same as passengers acting badly towards employees.
DocLightning wrote:
Is there a point to this rant? Of course, passengers should not be permitted to assault crew. Does that make up for crappy service across the industry in general? What's your point?
FlyinRabbit88 wrote:I as flight crew am tired of some passengers thinking they are above the law towards crew.
ssteve wrote:FlyinRabbit88 wrote:I as flight crew am tired of some passengers thinking they are above the law towards crew.
*customers.
ssteve wrote:FlyinRabbit88 wrote:I as flight crew am tired of some passengers thinking they are above the law towards crew.
*customers.
DocLightning wrote:FlyinRabbit88 wrote:Enough is enough. This goes both ways, if employees act badly they should be punished the same as passengers acting badly towards employees.
Is there a point to this rant? Of course, passengers should not be permitted to assault crew. Does that make up for crappy service across the industry in general? No, it has nothing to do with it. Assault is illegal in just about every jurisdiction on the planet. What's your point?
PDX88 wrote:Really? Is "passengers" inappropriate or offensive to you? Yeesh
jethawk wrote:Really? Is "customers" (who pay my wages, lest I forget) inappropriate or offensive to you? Yeesh
Sancho99504 wrote:What the heck happened to this site? Are we really going to nitpick over passenger, customer, client, guest...etc, while being a complete dick about it? This free crap has really degraded this site and I now completely understand why some people I know, left. Sad really.
FlyUSAir wrote:Pilot needs to be fired. No excuse for assault but you don't slap someone's phone out of someone's hands. The aircraft is private property and the employees can stop any unwanted photography they want but an airport (usually) is limited-public property meaning if you have business there, you have every right in the world to take all the pictures you want of anything and everyone (minus the usual areas like TSA screens, bathrooms, off limit areas etc).
TWA772LR wrote:A passenger I was checking in took a picture behind the counter in my direction. It looked like his camera was pointing directly at my ID in the middle of my chest. I told him I did not give consent for that picture and insisted he delete it. He showed me the picture and he was just taking a picture of his bags. He couldve just swiped fast to show the picture if his bags, but i wasnt about to jump over the counter to let him have it over a stupid picture that he may or may not have taken.
The point is there are proper ways to tell someone no. Yeah the passenger shouldn't have taken the picture, but the pilot shouldn't have acted that way in return.
MIflyer12 wrote:
It took 17 posts but somebody finally got around to relevant U.S. law. One can have no expectation of privacy (denying photos, for example) in a public place - places like public toilets excepted. The passenger can't shove the pilot but the pilot can't knock the phone out of the passenger's hand, either.
flyingcat wrote:While I don't support any shoving there is one thing that cops and authority figure always forget. There is no expectation of privacy in a public setting, you cannot order someone to delete photos taken of you. I don't agree with the man's method, shoving a camera in someones face is idiotic but there are numerous cases to back this up.
Can they arrest you sure, but it never holds up in court. But the minute you get physical you have lost legal backing.
FlyUSAir wrote:Pilot needs to be fired. No excuse for assault but you don't slap someone's phone out of someone's hands. The aircraft is private property and the employees can stop any unwanted photography they want but an airport (usually) is limited-public property meaning if you have business there, you have every right in the world to take all the pictures you want of anything and everyone (minus the usual areas like TSA screens, bathrooms, off limit areas etc).
MIflyer12 wrote:It took 17 posts but somebody finally got around to relevant U.S. law. One can have no expectation of privacy (denying photos, for example) in a public place - places like public toilets excepted. The passenger can't shove the pilot but the pilot can't knock the phone out of the passenger's hand, either.
sldispatcher wrote:DocLightning wrote:
Is there a point to this rant? Of course, passengers should not be permitted to assault crew. Does that make up for crappy service across the industry in general? What's your point?
That was sort of typical a.net rude.
zeke wrote:MIflyer12 wrote:It took 17 posts but somebody finally got around to relevant U.S. law. One can have no expectation of privacy (denying photos, for example) in a public place - places like public toilets excepted. The passenger can't shove the pilot but the pilot can't knock the phone out of the passenger's hand, either.
I don't need to be told not to take photos of a police officers id, a FAA id, a TSA id, customs id, mechanis id or anyone else working in a security sensitive environment.
If a passenger wants to identify an employee it's easy via the flight number and location.
I would be concerned why they need a photo, are they planning to photoshop it and colour print it ?
Personally I would put it in my pocket and walk to the nearest law enforcement officer to get the passenger to explain their actions.
Never has anyone done this to me after decades of flying, this is not a normal situation.
FlyUSAir wrote:zeke wrote:MIflyer12 wrote:It took 17 posts but somebody finally got around to relevant U.S. law. One can have no expectation of privacy (denying photos, for example) in a public place - places like public toilets excepted. The passenger can't shove the pilot but the pilot can't knock the phone out of the passenger's hand, either.
I don't need to be told not to take photos of a police officers id, a FAA id, a TSA id, customs id, mechanis id or anyone else working in a security sensitive environment.
If a passenger wants to identify an employee it's easy via the flight number and location.
I would be concerned why they need a photo, are they planning to photoshop it and colour print it ?
Personally I would put it in my pocket and walk to the nearest law enforcement officer to get the passenger to explain their actions.
Never has anyone done this to me after decades of flying, this is not a normal situation.
You would then be arrested for theft.
Bricktop wrote:I think zeke is referring to putting his ID in his pocket.
jersey777 wrote:After watching the video, it looks like the passenger was the aggressor. All this after the pilot was supposedly "disrespectful" by taking too much time in the aisle? The passenger literally stalks the guy and shoves a camera at him. I would have smacked it out of his hand too!
clrd4t8koff wrote:TWA772LR wrote:A passenger I was checking in took a picture behind the counter in my direction. It looked like his camera was pointing directly at my ID in the middle of my chest. I told him I did not give consent for that picture and insisted he delete it. He showed me the picture and he was just taking a picture of his bags. He couldve just swiped fast to show the picture if his bags, but i wasnt about to jump over the counter to let him have it over a stupid picture that he may or may not have taken.
The point is there are proper ways to tell someone no. Yeah the passenger shouldn't have taken the picture, but the pilot shouldn't have acted that way in return.
Just trying to understand - if the passenger was taking a picture of your ID were you afraid they'd have your information to report you? I don't understand what the fear is.
PDX88 wrote:ssteve wrote:FlyinRabbit88 wrote:I as flight crew am tired of some passengers thinking they are above the law towards crew.
*customers.
Really? Is "passengers" inappropriate or offensive to you? Yeesh
zeke wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
FlyUSAir wrote:Pilot needs to be fired. No excuse for assault but you don't slap someone's phone out of someone's hands. The aircraft is private property and the employees can stop any unwanted photography they want but an airport (usually) is limited-public property meaning if you have business there, you have every right in the world to take all the pictures you want of anything and everyone (minus the usual areas like TSA screens, bathrooms, off limit areas etc).
clrd4t8koff wrote:TWA772LR wrote:A passenger I was checking in took a picture behind the counter in my direction. It looked like his camera was pointing directly at my ID in the middle of my chest. I told him I did not give consent for that picture and insisted he delete it. He showed me the picture and he was just taking a picture of his bags. He couldve just swiped fast to show the picture if his bags, but i wasnt about to jump over the counter to let him have it over a stupid picture that he may or may not have taken.
The point is there are proper ways to tell someone no. Yeah the passenger shouldn't have taken the picture, but the pilot shouldn't have acted that way in return.
Just trying to understand - if the passenger was taking a picture of your ID were you afraid they'd have your information to report you? I don't understand what the fear is.
TWA772LR wrote:clrd4t8koff wrote:TWA772LR wrote:A passenger I was checking in took a picture behind the counter in my direction. It looked like his camera was pointing directly at my ID in the middle of my chest. I told him I did not give consent for that picture and insisted he delete it. He showed me the picture and he was just taking a picture of his bags. He couldve just swiped fast to show the picture if his bags, but i wasnt about to jump over the counter to let him have it over a stupid picture that he may or may not have taken.
The point is there are proper ways to tell someone no. Yeah the passenger shouldn't have taken the picture, but the pilot shouldn't have acted that way in return.
Just trying to understand - if the passenger was taking a picture of your ID were you afraid they'd have your information to report you? I don't understand what the fear is.
They are not allowed to take pictures of govt (city, state, federal) IDs, especially not without consent of the badge holder. My SIDA badge was facing out and I don't want my name out there for the world to see. We even took delays and cancellations a couple times and some pax took pictures of the boarding area that had me and the other agents in it and posted it to the airlines Twitter. They can't do that neither without consent, and I definitely don't want to be associated with an airline in a social media post aimed at shaming the airline. I just don't want my name to be slandered is all.
usflyer msp wrote:clrd4t8koff wrote:TWA772LR wrote:A passenger I was checking in took a picture behind the counter in my direction. It looked like his camera was pointing directly at my ID in the middle of my chest. I told him I did not give consent for that picture and insisted he delete it. He showed me the picture and he was just taking a picture of his bags. He couldve just swiped fast to show the picture if his bags, but i wasnt about to jump over the counter to let him have it over a stupid picture that he may or may not have taken.
The point is there are proper ways to tell someone no. Yeah the passenger shouldn't have taken the picture, but the pilot shouldn't have acted that way in return.
Just trying to understand - if the passenger was taking a picture of your ID were you afraid they'd have your information to report you? I don't understand what the fear is.
That is how counterfeit ID's are created, take a picture of real one and then create a fake from it. Taking pictures of airport badges and Airline ID's are big no-no at the airport....
clrd4t8koff wrote:TWA772LR wrote:clrd4t8koff wrote:
Just trying to understand - if the passenger was taking a picture of your ID were you afraid they'd have your information to report you? I don't understand what the fear is.
They are not allowed to take pictures of govt (city, state, federal) IDs, especially not without consent of the badge holder. My SIDA badge was facing out and I don't want my name out there for the world to see. We even took delays and cancellations a couple times and some pax took pictures of the boarding area that had me and the other agents in it and posted it to the airlines Twitter. They can't do that neither without consent, and I definitely don't want to be associated with an airline in a social media post aimed at shaming the airline. I just don't want my name to be slandered is all.
Are you a gov't employee or airline employee? The post sounded like an airline employee since you said you were checking in the individual who snapped the pic.
flyingcat wrote:While I don't support any shoving there is one thing that cops and authority figure always forget. There is no expectation of privacy in a public setting, you cannot order someone to delete photos taken of you. I don't agree with the man's method, shoving a camera in someones face is idiotic but there are numerous cases to back this up.
Can they arrest you sure, but it never holds up in court. But the minute you get physical you have lost legal backing.
Sancho99504 wrote:flyingcat wrote:While I don't support any shoving there is one thing that cops and authority figure always forget. There is no expectation of privacy in a public setting, you cannot order someone to delete photos taken of you. I don't agree with the man's method, shoving a camera in someones face is idiotic but there are numerous cases to back this up.
Can they arrest you sure, but it never holds up in court. But the minute you get physical you have lost legal backing.
in the state of Washington, it is against state law to photograph, video or voice recorder anyone without their permission. I do believe there are exceptions, but the wording is very broad.
FlyUSAir wrote:MIflyer12 wrote:
It took 17 posts but somebody finally got around to relevant U.S. law. One can have no expectation of privacy (denying photos, for example) in a public place - places like public toilets excepted. The passenger can't shove the pilot but the pilot can't knock the phone out of the passenger's hand, either.flyingcat wrote:While I don't support any shoving there is one thing that cops and authority figure always forget. There is no expectation of privacy in a public setting, you cannot order someone to delete photos taken of you. I don't agree with the man's method, shoving a camera in someones face is idiotic but there are numerous cases to back this up.
Can they arrest you sure, but it never holds up in court. But the minute you get physical you have lost legal backing.
Yep, passenger was in the right and could've got been completely fine if he didn't get physical. Now that he did, however, his legal case is out the window.
clrd4t8koff wrote:usflyer msp wrote:clrd4t8koff wrote:
Just trying to understand - if the passenger was taking a picture of your ID were you afraid they'd have your information to report you? I don't understand what the fear is.
That is how counterfeit ID's are created, take a picture of real one and then create a fake from it. Taking pictures of airport badges and Airline ID's are big no-no at the airport....
That might be true, but it sounds linke most airline employees just don't want passengers having their info to report their bad behavior as opposed to being afraid someone might create a counterfeit badge.
Also - hasn't it already been mentioned that people have the right to take photos in airports outside of controlled areas like security screening and customs areas. Sounds like check in counters are safe to snap photos.
usflyer msp wrote:clrd4t8koff wrote:usflyer msp wrote:
That is how counterfeit ID's are created, take a picture of real one and then create a fake from it. Taking pictures of airport badges and Airline ID's are big no-no at the airport....
That might be true, but it sounds linke most airline employees just don't want passengers having their info to report their bad behavior as opposed to being afraid someone might create a counterfeit badge.
Also - hasn't it already been mentioned that people have the right to take photos in airports outside of controlled areas like security screening and customs areas. Sounds like check in counters are safe to snap photos.
Just because photography is allowed does not mean you can take photos of anything. Taking a picture of the pilot = fine. Taking a picture of his badge = absolutely not as that is security sensitive information...
Sancho99504 wrote:flyingcat wrote:While I don't support any shoving there is one thing that cops and authority figure always forget. There is no expectation of privacy in a public setting, you cannot order someone to delete photos taken of you. I don't agree with the man's method, shoving a camera in someones face is idiotic but there are numerous cases to back this up.
Can they arrest you sure, but it never holds up in court. But the minute you get physical you have lost legal backing.
in the state of Washington, it is against state law to photograph, video or voice recorder anyone without their permission. I do believe there are exceptions, but the wording is very broad.
clrd4t8koff wrote:usflyer msp wrote:clrd4t8koff wrote:
That might be true, but it sounds linke most airline employees just don't want passengers having their info to report their bad behavior as opposed to being afraid someone might create a counterfeit badge.
Also - hasn't it already been mentioned that people have the right to take photos in airports outside of controlled areas like security screening and customs areas. Sounds like check in counters are safe to snap photos.
Just because photography is allowed does not mean you can take photos of anything. Taking a picture of the pilot = fine. Taking a picture of his badge = absolutely not as that is security sensitive information...
I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but outside of the aircraft where is one going to get fined taking a picture of a pilot? Heck I'm seeing media reports now of the incident with photos of the pilot and passenger fighting. Is that individual who took the photos and videos going to be fined?
sw733 wrote:Sancho99504 wrote:flyingcat wrote:While I don't support any shoving there is one thing that cops and authority figure always forget. There is no expectation of privacy in a public setting, you cannot order someone to delete photos taken of you. I don't agree with the man's method, shoving a camera in someones face is idiotic but there are numerous cases to back this up.
Can they arrest you sure, but it never holds up in court. But the minute you get physical you have lost legal backing.
in the state of Washington, it is against state law to photograph, video or voice recorder anyone without their permission. I do believe there are exceptions, but the wording is very broad.
Whether or not that is the truth, this happened in Missouri so Washington law is moot.
FlyUSAir wrote:Sancho99504 wrote:flyingcat wrote:While I don't support any shoving there is one thing that cops and authority figure always forget. There is no expectation of privacy in a public setting, you cannot order someone to delete photos taken of you. I don't agree with the man's method, shoving a camera in someones face is idiotic but there are numerous cases to back this up.
Can they arrest you sure, but it never holds up in court. But the minute you get physical you have lost legal backing.
in the state of Washington, it is against state law to photograph, video or voice recorder anyone without their permission. I do believe there are exceptions, but the wording is very broad.
No, it's not, it's perfectly legal in all 50 states as long as you are on public property. The Supreme Court has ruled so, and that trumps any state/local laws.
clrd4t8koff wrote:I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but outside of the aircraft where is one going to get fined taking a picture of a pilot? Heck I'm seeing media reports now of the incident with photos of the pilot and passenger fighting. Is that individual who took the photos and videos going to be fined?
Trololzilla wrote:clrd4t8koff wrote:I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but outside of the aircraft where is one going to get fined taking a picture of a pilot? Heck I'm seeing media reports now of the incident with photos of the pilot and passenger fighting. Is that individual who took the photos and videos going to be fined?
He said that it was fine (as in okay) to take a picture of the pilot but not of the ID. It was not a 'fine' in the punitive sense.