Since Copa took its embraer into service its online performance has increased drastically. Does anybody knows the loadfactors and also if these embraer can handle the heavy loads (shopping travellers) in the Caribbean operations? Haiti Curacao Aruba etc

A388 wrote:

Copa Airlines on time performance is generally very good so that doesn't have to do with the embraer but moreover the airline itself. They use their embraers to the Caribbeans quite often to a select number of destinations so it is a good aircraft even though cargo capability of the embraer isn't great. Apparently the Caribbean routes where they use the embraer have no high cargo requirement which makes this a good aircraft. Curacao doesn't require something bigger then the embraer. The 737 is barely used to Curacao.

A388

They use the embraer to POS and also on their Jamaican routes.

[/quote]
They use the embraer to POS and also on their Jamaican routes.[/quote]

Also used to BZE

and on 2 of the 3 SJU flights.... and the 3rd in the slow season.

chepos wrote:

I have always wondered what traffic supports both PAP and KIN, they have served both markets for years. I am sure they as many other CM routes depend heavily on connections (but I wonder from where mostly)?

I think mostly from Central and South America, Maybe some from the US and Canada.

So this is the reason why carribbean airlines is loosing money? 737 to big?

A388 wrote:

Copa Airlines on time performance is generally very good so that doesn't have to do with the embraer but moreover the airline itself. They use their embraers to the Caribbeans quite often to a select number of destinations so it is a good aircraft even though cargo capability of the embraer isn't great. Apparently the Caribbean routes where they use the embraer have no high cargo requirement which makes this a good aircraft. Curacao doesn't require something bigger then the embraer. The 737 is barely used to Curacao.

A388

Haiti for sure has cargo requirements. So is it low loadfactors?☺or is the embraer such a good plane?

embraer175e2 wrote:

So this is the reason why carribbean airlines is loosing money? 737 to big?

\
No. The routes that BW serves are core routes to MIA, FLL, YYZ, and JFK which have strong VFR markets or are strong leisure destinations for Caribbean residents. MCO, which some might argue is non core, has strong loads on its 2X flights to POS.

There is no larger Caribbean owned and operated carrier which is profitable, with the possible exception of Air Antilles Express, which has a niche market with only nominal competition. Not the state owned ones, and as Insel and the myriad of Dutch Caribbean carriers have indicated, not the private ones either. Maybe the tiny ones like Inter Caribbean make money.

embraer175e2 wrote:

Haiti for sure has cargo requirements. So is it low loadfactors?☺or is the embraer such a good plane?

The 50lb baggage limit and baggage charges has changed how people travel. The extra fees for heavy bags are fierce, especially when layered on top of the bag charges that AA and other carriers levy. People going to PTY are commercial buyers, and one can bet that the customs officials eagerly await COPA knowing exactly that, so one might as well ship and be done with it.

A388 reports that in CUR arrangements to ship are readily available. I know that this is also true for MIA and SXM and I bet also PTY.

guyanam wrote:

embraer175e2 wrote:

So this is the reason why carribbean airlines is loosing money? 737 to big?

\
No. The routes that BW serves are core routes to MIA, FLL, YYZ, and JFK which have strong VFR markets or are strong leisure destinations for Caribbean residents. MCO, which some might argue is non core, has strong loads on its 2X flights to POS.

There is no larger Caribbean owned and operated carrier which is profitable, with the possible exception of Air Antilles Express, which has a niche market with only nominal competition. Not the state owned ones, and as Insel and the myriad of Dutch Caribbean carriers have indicated, not the private ones either. Maybe the tiny ones like Inter Caribbean make money.

Divi divi air curacao makes money with its simple islander operations.

Mention any ERJ 175/190/5 Operators that went bankrupt. I don't know of any. Accounts love it as Embraer states.

embraer175e2 wrote:

Mention any ERJ 175/190/5 Operators that went bankrupt. I don't know of any. Accounts love it as Embraer states.

Republic Airways... US Airways... Frontier...

embraer175e2 wrote:

Divi divi air curacao makes money with its simple islander operations.

You will admit that one cannot compare Divi Divi which flies between islands a scant 20 minutes apart with another with flights over 2.000 miles competing against some of the most powerful carriers on the planet. This is why I focused on the larger carriers which have to incur overhead expenses, like proper engineering/maintenance facilities, reservation systems, and websites, if they are to compete.

Get back to me when Divi Divi starts flights to MIA from CUR or BON. Then you can compare them with BW, OJ, KX or the other carriers which either lose money, or are struggling to survive (I happen to know that OJ thinks that paying a US$1,500 invoice is one that gives them pause, so clearly they are cash strapped).

guyanam wrote:

embraer175e2 wrote:

Divi divi air curacao makes money with its simple islander operations.

You will admit that one cannot compare Divi Divi which flies between islands a scant 20 minutes apart with another with flights over 2.000 miles competing against some of the most powerful carriers on the planet. This is why I focused on the larger carriers which have to incur overhead expenses, like proper engineering/maintenance facilities, reservation systems, and websites, if they are to compete.

Get back to me when Divi Divi starts flights to MIA from CUR or BON. Then you can compare them with BW, OJ, KX or the other carriers which either lose money, or are struggling to survive (I happen to know that OJ thinks that paying a US$1,500 invoice is one that gives them pause, so clearly they are cash strapped).

You were talking about tiny ones. Well this is a tiny one.

Most of CM's E190 end in the Central American flights, some to the Caribbean and nearly non to the rest. As some mention, CM keeps running some of their destinations profitably because of the connections from other countries, not from passengers straight from PTY. CM also uses the E190 for the only domestic flight they operate, but interchange it with a B737 and B738 from time to time. By 2020 all E190 will be phased out of the fleet, replaced by more B738s; maybe some with stay with P5 on Colombian domestic routes.

[quote="tommyarias"]Most of CM's E190 end in the Central American flights, some to the Caribbean and nearly non to the rest. As some mention, CM keeps running some of their destinations profitably because of the connections from other countries, not from passengers straight from PTY. CM also uses the E190 for the only domestic flight they operate, but interchange it with a B737 and B738 from time to time. By 2020 all E190 will be phased out of the fleet, replaced by more B738s; maybe some with stay with P5 on Colombian domestic routes.[/quote

Why phase out the e190?

embraer175e2 wrote:

tommyarias wrote:

Most of CM's E190 end in the Central American flights, some to the Caribbean and nearly non to the rest. As some mention, CM keeps running some of their destinations profitably because of the connections from other countries, not from passengers straight from PTY. CM also uses the E190 for the only domestic flight they operate, but interchange it with a B737 and B738 from time to time. By 2020 all E190 will be phased out of the fleet, replaced by more B738s; maybe some with stay with P5 on Colombian domestic routes.[/quote

Why phase out the e190?

They have already 61 B737 MAX -8 and -9 on order, so maybe they hope that with the expansion will come more passengers to fill the planes? I wouldn't be surprised if they move the E190 to P5, or open another subsidiary in Central America and fly them there.

A388 wrote:

I think that the E190 serves CM very well as it allows them to have more flexibilty in their route network. Some of their routes are perfect for the E190 and the capacity of the E190 allows CM to operate thinner routes. I don't see CM going for an all Boeing MAX fleet as some destinations will not be attractive anymore for them if they will use the MAX, especially in the Caribbean. I see CM even go for the E190E2 in the future. Just my opinion.

A388

I agree

A388 wrote:

Okay that's a valid point. I don't know how the range of the "E2" compares to the CSeries so I can't comment on that yet. From an appearance point of view I find the CSeries to be a beautiful aircraft

A388

190e2=2800nm
195e2=2400nm
Cs300=3400nm
Max7=3800nm

Based on range and approximately same capacity the will most probably choose for the max7 (already familiar with 737 training and ops)

The CM E190s do venture outside the Caribbean and Central America. In fact, they do go as far south as Chiclayo, Peru (CIX) and Manaos, Brazil (MAO).

chepos wrote:

I have always wondered what traffic supports both PAP and KIN, they have served both markets for years.

Well back in the day both CUR & PTY were popular destinations for Jamaican Informal Commercial Importers (ICI's). But as previously stated, times have changed and alternative shopping arrangements are now utilized as well. Many local ICI's are now traveling all the way to China as well to buy stuff. PTY was also historically very popular with local church groups, schools, businesses etc. for group trips, as no visa is required for short stay. This popularity still exists so I guess KIN has a nice mix. It should be noted that CM only served KIN for many years before starting MBJ. I assume MBJ receive a fair number of connecting traffic with visitors from various South American cities, mixed with our locals who visit Panama for vacation.

CM wouldn't look at the CSeries as they don't want to start from scratch with a new aircraft. The B737-700s will most likely will be transferred to Wingo and taken out entirely from the mainline, and the E190s to P5 as their fleet consist mostly of this aircrafts already. Most likely CM wants to operate an all-Boeing fleet.