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braniff2hav
Posts: 92
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2015 9:20 pm

Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:44 pm

kitplane01 wrote:
TW870 wrote:
I am proud of Alitalia for outlasting all of the drama on this thread! People keep posting, and Alitalia keeps flying. I flew the reconfigured 777 in J this summer from FCO-JFK, and it was the most pleasant flight - with the best food - that I have had in a decade anywhere in the world. I will absolutely fly them again next time I have to be in Italy, and I hope I get the chance to.


About 1000 people on this thread said the same thing. Alitalia will fly forever, be organized poorly, have more employees and fewer passengers than other airlines, and lose money forever, and continue in this path forever.

The current situation is not anything to be proud of.

That Alitalia continues like this is not a good thing.


I too flew that route, but I think it was the A330 and will say the AZ flight outshined the front cabin offerings of JJ, LA, DL, AA, UA, AF and even my very short EK Business Class flight. Service spot on, food amazing and seat was the most comfortable.
 
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mercure1
Posts: 3718
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:26 pm

Italy economic minister Carlo Calenda says they are "within days" of selecting successful bidders for AZ and beginning exclusive talks.

http://aviationweek.com/awincommercial/ ... ithin-days
 
User avatar
ojjunior
Posts: 493
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:31 am

Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:12 am

mercure1 wrote:
Italy economic minister Carlo Calenda says they are "within days" of selecting successful bidders for AZ and beginning exclusive talks.

http://aviationweek.com/awincommercial/ ... ithin-days


Candidates?
Assumptions?
Thoughts?
 
MrBren
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:44 am

Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:31 am

 
Egerton
Posts: 731
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:50 am

Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:32 am

Given that Easyjet has made a bid and won slots etc from AirBerlin, and IAG the same for Niki (although in doubt now), one can see the sense re Alitalia. It all depends on how much trust one can assign to the Italian Government. But if you don't ask, you won't get. Maybe high risk, maybe high reward?
 
vahancrazy
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2007 5:54 pm

Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:18 am

I will believe it only when AF-KL and/our U2 becomes Alitalia management. Until that moment, Italians can do any Italian games and change their mind.
 
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seahawk
Posts: 6048
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 1:29 am

Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:58 am

If AF/KLM do not try, they would surrender to IAG and LH.
 
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ojjunior
Posts: 493
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:31 am

Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:50 pm

So perhaps there will be an AF/KL/AZ?
Beginning of an oligopoly?
 
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LAXintl
Posts: 22111
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:25 pm

Lufthansa CEO calls for significant Alitalia cuts
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-alit ... SKBN1F01RW

=

Basically, a restructured “NewAlitalia” would be smaller in terms of both staff and its fleet. LH sees use for 90-100 AZ planes and about half of its staff.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
GianiDC
Posts: 148
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:30 pm

Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:38 pm

Recently I read an article that AZ staff have priviliges that LH wants them to get rid of first before a possible takeover. One of those is that every staff based in Milan can live in Rome and AZ completly pays for the journey and if necessary a hotel room.
 
LPSHobby
Posts: 345
Joined: Tue May 01, 2007 9:14 pm

Lufthansa, AirnFrance-Easyjet and Cerberus fight for Alitalia

Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:43 pm

3 contenders for Alitalia, in portuguese only:

http://www.jb.com.br/internacional/noti ... -alitalia/
 
Jetty
Posts: 391
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:27 pm

Re: Lufthansa, AirnFrance-Easyjet and Cerberus fight for Alitalia

Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:02 pm

A bit more detail in Italian. http://www.tgcom24.mediaset.it/economia ... 802a.shtml

It mentions DL is part of the AF/KL/U2 combination.
 
Amsterdam
Posts: 200
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:52 am

Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:00 pm

Why easyJet together with AFKL?
 
Jetty
Posts: 391
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:27 pm

Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:08 pm

Amsterdam wrote:
Why easyJet together with AFKL?

It isn't mentioned in any of the news articles but I imagine U2 is interested in shorthaul and AF/KL in longhaul. Shorthoul could also be divided by base, with AF/KL getting FCO because of feed for the longhaul operation and U2 the rest.
 
AtomicGarden
Posts: 126
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:57 pm

Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:42 am

I hope LH and IAG don't get to win the bid. They have enough power as it is, more competition is good (and also don't wanna lose SkyTeam's AZ to Star or OW).
 
sevenair
Posts: 1799
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2001 7:18 am

Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:42 am

I find the easyJet Air France joint bid deeply troubling. Having just bought part of a basket case airline the airline is geared fully toward its integration. No offence to anyone but they’re joining forces with a basket case airline to buy another basket case airline. It just doesn’t make sense. U2/AF are biggest competitors at CDG/ORY.

I appreciate that ops can be split into short haul and long haul with airlines buying different parts but a joint bid suggests the price is too high or it’s simply too big a task for one airline.

I see a vastly successful airline trying to outstretched itself. U2 already closed its FCO base so it would be odd to create another U2 mega base there not to mention training capacity. U2 is a huge airline. But it’s not that huge.
 
HighFlyerIT
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:02 pm

Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:30 pm

Yesterday the Italian minister of economic development Carlo Calenda said during a TV interview that he will meet the three bidders on monday and subsequently choose the one to continue negotiations. The aim is to reach an agreement before the elections, and he is confident that it is feasible.

Full video (in Italian): http://www.la7.it/otto-e-mezzo/rivedila ... 018-231351
 
sevenair
Posts: 1799
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2001 7:18 am

Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:13 pm

Latest is that AF have pulled out. My hope is that U2 do the same and pull out. It is too much work between this and TXL.

Surely it's better business sense to let it implode and pick up the pieces? If the Italians are happy to bankroll them then let them. State aid rules are very selectively penalised and there are many ways around it if needed (post offices investing etc).
 
76er
Posts: 521
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:04 pm

Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:14 pm

Several media in The Netherlands report AFKL denies to have bid on Alitalia. Can’t find any conformation on any AFKL website though.
 
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nordikcam
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:44 pm

Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:10 pm

The directors of Air France-KLM have not heard of any plans to take over the Italian company put on sale after the departure of its shareholder Etihad.
( source : Le Figaro )
http://www.lefigaro.fr/societes/2018/01 ... italia.php
 
vahancrazy
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2007 5:54 pm

Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:22 am

sevenair wrote:
Latest is that AF have pulled out. My hope is that U2 do the same and pull out. It is too much work between this and TXL.

Surely it's better business sense to let it implode and pick up the pieces? If the Italians are happy to bankroll them then let them. State aid rules are very selectively penalised and there are many ways around it if needed (post offices investing etc).


Italians think AZ is a national pride and those employeed by AZ or their Unions do not want to loose their fat seat.
AZ has never been economically well run. It's easier to have it re-nationalised than to sell it and have it run like a proper business.
 
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mercure1
Posts: 3718
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:57 pm

Two Italian ministers says Italy needs more time to consider expressions of interest for AZ before they decide on entering exclusive talks.

Italy needs more time before starting exclusive talks on Alitalia sale
https://in.reuters.com/article/us-alita ... NKBN1F42GH
 
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kitplane01
Posts: 690
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 5:58 am

Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:31 pm

vahancrazy wrote:
sevenair wrote:
Latest is that AF have pulled out. My hope is that U2 do the same and pull out. It is too much work between this and TXL.

Surely it's better business sense to let it implode and pick up the pieces? If the Italians are happy to bankroll them then let them. State aid rules are very selectively penalised and there are many ways around it if needed (post offices investing etc).


Italians think AZ is a national pride and those employeed by AZ or their Unions do not want to loose their fat seat.
AZ has never been economically well run. It's easier to have it re-nationalised than to sell it and have it run like a proper business.


How would renationalizing it solve the losses?
 
vahancrazy
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2007 5:54 pm

Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:23 pm

kitplane01 wrote:
vahancrazy wrote:
sevenair wrote:
Latest is that AF have pulled out. My hope is that U2 do the same and pull out. It is too much work between this and TXL.

Surely it's better business sense to let it implode and pick up the pieces? If the Italians are happy to bankroll them then let them. State aid rules are very selectively penalised and there are many ways around it if needed (post offices investing etc).


Italians think AZ is a national pride and those employeed by AZ or their Unions do not want to loose their fat seat.
AZ has never been economically well run. It's easier to have it re-nationalised than to sell it and have it run like a proper business.


How would renationalizing it solve the losses?


It would not. It would just make things honest... which is already an achievement when you consider they pretendere to be a business!
Honestly, I do not think there will be anything good from Alitalia.
Of course, as I cannot forecast the future, I'll change my opinion only when i see the proper project to be actually implemented.
 
LJ
Posts: 4380
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:40 pm

mercure1 wrote:
Two Italian ministers says Italy needs more time to consider expressions of interest for AZ before they decide on entering exclusive talks.


In short, they don't like none of the offers and are trying to delay the process till after the election.
 
F9flyer
Topic Author
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 12:11 pm

Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:11 pm

Two Italian ministers says Italy needs more time to consider expressions of interest for AZ before they decide on entering exclusive talks.

Italy needs more time before starting exclusive talks on Alitalia sale
Agreed as they can't quite agree as to what to say in the press--- this for two days ago---
https://www.eturbonews.com/175139/new-d ... e-alitalia
 
GianiDC
Posts: 148
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:30 pm

Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:00 pm

Yes, because 3/4 of a year is clearly a very short period to get the deal done. There even were seriously interested parties. I tend to agree now that a renationalisation would be best. There seems to be no way the unions give in and the state aid is very likely already technically illegal. The governement wont let AZ die because if they haven´t done so already they never will.
 
User avatar
VCEflyboy
Posts: 1208
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:23 pm

Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:32 pm

The interest from AFKL has little to do with AZ and everything to do with LH. They’re afraid that if LH gets their hands on AZ AF will be pushed to the corner fighting with a huge airline group.
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