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VCEflyboy
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Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:15 am

Well they're actually expanding atm. The 77W is supposed to be doing wonders for AZ so let's hope that's the case. There won't be any change until the new government takes office in spring 18.
Last edited by VCEflyboy on Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
TW870
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Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Thu Oct 26, 2017 3:48 am

I am proud of Alitalia for outlasting all of the drama on this thread! People keep posting, and Alitalia keeps flying. I flew the reconfigured 777 in J this summer from FCO-JFK, and it was the most pleasant flight - with the best food - that I have had in a decade anywhere in the world. I will absolutely fly them again next time I have to be in Italy, and I hope I get the chance to.
 
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N717TW
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Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:48 pm

Reuters and the Financial Times report that seven bids were made. All we know is that Lufthansa and EasyJet made partial bids--and the LH bid apparently ends the AZ brand at least on intra-EU and TATL (probably as a way to avoid the DL/AF-KL TATL JV). Has there been anything anywhere else suggesting who else has made bids?
 
GianiDC
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Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:30 pm

N717TW wrote:
[...]and the LH bid apparently ends the AZ brand at least on intra-EU and TATL [...]


What would then be left for AZ?
 
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N717TW
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Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:25 pm

GianiDC wrote:
N717TW wrote:
[...]and the LH bid apparently ends the AZ brand at least on intra-EU and TATL [...]


What would then be left for AZ?


Nothing, I think that's the point. The Financial Times article indicated that LH's bid called for Eurowings would take over the intra-EU flying and LH the TATL. It sounds to me as an acknowledgment by LH mgmt that the AZ brand isn't worth that much nor is AZ's network to Asia or Africa. I realize that LX and SN in particular, have strength to Africa so this is quite an admission that FCO, despite geographic advantages, isn't worth using as a launching pad.

Sounds like the major European carriers are more interested in picking over the carcass than investing in AZ.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:48 pm

N717TW wrote:
GianiDC wrote:
N717TW wrote:
[...]and the LH bid apparently ends the AZ brand at least on intra-EU and TATL [...]


What would then be left for AZ?


Nothing, I think that's the point. The Financial Times article indicated that LH's bid called for Eurowings would take over the intra-EU flying and LH the TATL. It sounds to me as an acknowledgment by LH mgmt that the AZ brand isn't worth that much nor is AZ's network to Asia or Africa. I realize that LX and SN in particular, have strength to Africa so this is quite an admission that FCO, despite geographic advantages, isn't worth using as a launching pad.

Sounds like the major European carriers are more interested in picking over the carcass than investing in AZ.

Why would they want a fractious workforce? As AB showed (and AZ for that matter), starting with a workforce that will resist all reforms is a doomed approach.

Taking on Alitalia whole is a guaranteed path to bankruptcy (again). How many times has Alitalia been bailed out? I find it impossible to keep track. I recollect more bailouts than I found in the summaries online, so I'd appreciate a full history.

It is unfair for EU airlines to have to compete with subsidized entities. Time to have this happen. I realize the election pushes this out, but enough is enough.

Lightsaber
You only have the first amendment with the 2nd. If you're not going to offend someone with what you say, you don't have the 1st.
 
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VCEflyboy
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Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:02 am

Speaking of which, life is good for the bankrupted.
Alitalia is opening Luxembourg and Athens from LIN effective dec.

AZ 144 LIN LUX 0635 0750 (123456-)
AZ 146 LIN LUX 1840 1955 (12345-7)

AZ 145 LUX LIN 0945 1100 (123456-)
AZ 147 LUX LIN 2045 2200 (12345-7)

AZ 726 LIN ATH 1025 1350 (1234567)
AZ 725 ATH LIN 1440 1615 (1234567)
 
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kitplane01
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Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:21 am

TW870 wrote:
I am proud of Alitalia for outlasting all of the drama on this thread! People keep posting, and Alitalia keeps flying. I flew the reconfigured 777 in J this summer from FCO-JFK, and it was the most pleasant flight - with the best food - that I have had in a decade anywhere in the world. I will absolutely fly them again next time I have to be in Italy, and I hope I get the chance to.


About 1000 people on this thread said the same thing. Alitalia will fly forever, be organized poorly, have more employees and fewer passengers than other airlines, and lose money forever, and continue in this path forever.

The current situation is not anything to be proud of.

That Alitalia continues like this is not a good thing.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:17 pm

Italian Minister of Transport Graziano Delrio says LH offer for acquisition of AZ was "insufficient, needs to be improved"

http://www.lastampa.it/2017/11/22/econo ... agina.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.it/2017/11/22 ... _23285132/
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:43 pm

LAXintl wrote:
Italian Minister of Transport Graziano Delrio says LH offer for acquisition of AZ was "insufficient, needs to be improved"

http://www.lastampa.it/2017/11/22/econo ... agina.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.it/2017/11/22 ... _23285132/

Often, the rejected first is the best offer. LH made what they felt was a winning bid. They might increase it a little... But obviously if LH is being singled out, they made the high bid.


Basic game theory doesn't have LH significantly increasing the bid... I'm not certain anyone can make a ROI on Alitalia. LH needs to be careful.

Lightsaber
You only have the first amendment with the 2nd. If you're not going to offend someone with what you say, you don't have the 1st.
 
bennett123
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Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:44 pm

Perhaps it’s time for LH to focus on AB.
 
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mercure1
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Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:34 pm

In interview on Sunday on TV La7, Italian economic minister Carlo Calenda says his priority with sale of AZ is as follows:

1. Airline must retain flight links that bring tourists and business to Italy
2. Protect AZ employees
3. Minimize need for public money
 
YIMBY
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Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:24 pm

mercure1 wrote:
In interview on Sunday on TV La7, Italian economic minister Carlo Calenda says his priority with sale of AZ is as follows:

1. Airline must retain flight links that bring tourists and business to Italy
2. Protect AZ employees
3. Minimize need for public money


So protecting AZ employees has higher priority than minimizing the need for public money?
Interesting? Surprising? Fair? Sustainable? Legal? Who cares?
 
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jnev3289
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Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:49 pm

Still flying? *hits the snooze button*
 
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VCEflyboy
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Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:02 pm

what Are they supposed to say? We wanna fire 1000s of people? We wanna keep burning money on AZ? The key point is The offer by LH has been recognized as the only possible solution so they’ll try to get the best deal they can also leveraging on the counter offer by EZY. Having said that LH will likely just improve their offer a little and the government will just settle for not scaling down their current network, which is pretty much as much as they can develop. Beyond these the airline can only sustain a few more frequencies to the USA but not much more.
 
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ojjunior
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Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:34 pm

Geez... I hope they survive up to next may to honor my holiday tickets... :guilty:
 
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VCEflyboy
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Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:57 pm

Alitalia facing bankruptcy in style..
New uniforms to be rolled out by S18

https://www.google.ca/amp/nationalpost. ... iforms/amp
 
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seemyseems
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Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:11 pm

VCEflyboy wrote:
Alitalia facing bankruptcy in style..
New uniforms to be rolled out by S18

https://www.google.ca/amp/nationalpost. ... iforms/amp


Oh what. The current ones haven’t been out that long!
Tschüss, auf Wiedersehen und bye-bye
 
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ojjunior
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Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:46 pm

Excuse me but how many times did Alitalia bankrupt in past few years but it is still flying?
 
superjeff
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Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:00 pm

ojjunior wrote:
Excuse me but how many times did Alitalia bankrupt in past few years but it is still flying?


This is the first official bankruptcy filing for Alitalia. They have been insolvent for years and propped up by the Italian government. Current EU regulations don't allow those types of subsidies anymore, and their sugar daddy, Etihad, finally gave up on them.

Jeff
 
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ojjunior
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Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:55 pm

superjeff wrote:
ojjunior wrote:
Excuse me but how many times did Alitalia bankrupt in past few years but it is still flying?


This is the first official bankruptcy filing for Alitalia. They have been insolvent for years and propped up by the Italian government. Current EU regulations don't allow those types of subsidies anymore, and their sugar daddy, Etihad, finally gave up on them.

Jeff


Oh, didn't know that, thanks for clarifying.
So maybe my already paid tickets for future holidays are at risk? :banghead:
 
FW200
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Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:59 pm

What about the 77W EI-WLA? It returned from ZRH, where it has allegedly been for maintenace reasons, to FCO on Nov 15th. Since then no flights have been recorded on flightradar24.com. Does anybody know if and when it will enter service for AZ?
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:09 pm

Even in US, bankrupt airlines always repaint, rebrand and reuniform.

It’s like the thing to do!
 
LIRF
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Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:55 am

FW200 wrote:
What about the 77W EI-WLA? It returned from ZRH, where it has allegedly been for maintenace reasons, to FCO on Nov 15th. Does anybody know if and when it will enter service for AZ?

1st commercial flight
15DEC
AZ674
FCO GRU
 
FW200
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Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:50 am

@ LIRF:

Thanks! :bigthumbsup:
 
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ojjunior
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Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:00 am

LIRF wrote:
1st commercial flight
15DEC
AZ674
FCO GRU


Really??
 
superjeff
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Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:36 pm

ojjunior wrote:
superjeff wrote:
ojjunior wrote:
Excuse me but how many times did Alitalia bankrupt in past few years but it is still flying?


This is the first official bankruptcy filing for Alitalia. They have been insolvent for years and propped up by the Italian government. Current EU regulations don't allow those types of subsidies anymore, and their sugar daddy, Etihad, finally gave up on them.

Jeff


Oh, didn't know that, thanks for clarifying.
So maybe my already paid tickets for future holidays are at risk? :banghead:



I'd be sure that your tickets are paid by credit card so you have redress if they shut down.
 
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mercure1
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Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:47 am

Transport Minister Graziano Delrio says “interesting offers” had been received for AZ and that a decision could come within a month depending on the "state of the negotiations, which are moving forward day by day.”

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-italy ... KKBN1DZ2G6
 
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ojjunior
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Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:50 am

superjeff wrote:
I'd be sure that your tickets are paid by credit card so you have redress if they shut down.


But does it depend on the bank or the airline?
Is that common? The customer not having to pay for an expense because the recipient went bankrupt?
 
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Jayafe
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Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:56 am

ojjunior wrote:
superjeff wrote:
I'd be sure that your tickets are paid by credit card so you have redress if they shut down.


But does it depend on the bank or the airline?
Is that common? The customer not having to pay for an expense because the recipient went bankrupt?


Most of the credit card companies provide travel insurance when buying the tickets using that card, which usually include flight cancellations, as such.
 
hinckley
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Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:30 pm

Jayafe wrote:
ojjunior wrote:
superjeff wrote:
I'd be sure that your tickets are paid by credit card so you have redress if they shut down.


But does it depend on the bank or the airline? Is that common? The customer not having to pay for an expense because the recipient went bankrupt?


Most of the credit card companies provide travel insurance when buying the tickets using that card, which usually include flight cancellations, as such.


My credit card company - Citibank - gave me a full refund on two Air Berlin business class tickets within 10 days of filing the claim. I was very surprised and very happy. But my guess is that the exact coverage all depends on the bank and the specific credit card.
 
FW200
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Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:35 pm

LIRF wrote:
FW200 wrote:
What about the 77W EI-WLA? It returned from ZRH, where it has allegedly been for maintenace reasons, to FCO on Nov 15th. Does anybody know if and when it will enter service for AZ?

1st commercial flight
15DEC
AZ674
FCO GRU


Seems that EI-WLA has entered service already yesterday:

07 Dec Rome (FCO) Sao Paulo (GRU) AZ674 10:48 PM Landed 7:07 AM
08 Dec Sao Paulo (GRU) Rome (FCO) AZ675 Estimated departure 5:15 PM

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/ei-wla
 
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ojjunior
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Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:16 pm

Yep, first intl service, just departed GRU:
https://fr24.com/AZA675/fc684fa
Welcome!
 
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kjeld0d
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Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:33 pm

mercure1 wrote:
Transport Minister Graziano Delrio says “interesting offers” had been received for AZ


Some "interesting" brown envelopes coming across his desk most likely.
 
777
Posts: 435
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2005 9:21 pm

Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:57 am

ojjunior wrote:
Yep, first intl service, just departed GRU:
https://fr24.com/AZA675/fc684fa
Welcome!


A nice video of this first commercial flight from FCO.
https://youtu.be/NXRacbdoXb0
 
Waterbomber
Posts: 494
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Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:09 am

kjeld0d wrote:
mercure1 wrote:
Transport Minister Graziano Delrio says “interesting offers” had been received for AZ


Some "interesting" brown envelopes coming across his desk most likely.


It wouldn't be Italy otherwise...

The very fact that the transport minister is deciding on the fate of AZ shows that no matter what anyone says and who risks their capital, it's a national airline.
Let's see which suck*rs will get the privilege of burning their shirts this time. I hope that LH gets that privilege, because that is what they deserve after "saving" AB and stealing SN.
 
bennett123
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Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:25 am

The truly amazing thing is the title of this thread.
 
ahmetdouas
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Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:00 pm

Waterbomber wrote:
kjeld0d wrote:
mercure1 wrote:
Transport Minister Graziano Delrio says “interesting offers” had been received for AZ


Some "interesting" brown envelopes coming across his desk most likely.


It wouldn't be Italy otherwise...

The very fact that the transport minister is deciding on the fate of AZ shows that no matter what anyone says and who risks their capital, it's a national airline.
Let's see which suck*rs will get the privilege of burning their shirts this time. I hope that LH gets that privilege, because that is what they deserve after "saving" AB and stealing SN.



Yes but don't forget LH is German, and Merkel calls the shots in the EU. So if Italy tries to trick and cheat LH, Merkel will put them in line!
LH is the ideal airline to buy AZ!
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:51 pm

Allegedly, the LH offer is €300mil for a core fleet of about 60 aircraft with an option on another 60.
Apparently on sticking point is LH on wants to acquire the airline operational unit of AZ, but not many of its support divisions like ground handling, maintenance, etc which would mean job losses.
A target date of December 19th was set to sign a LoI with the Italian government.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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NYPECO
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Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:31 am

So what's going to happen? Will Italy be the only country in western Europe without a major international airline, or will there be a replacement?
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:48 am

LAXintl wrote:
Allegedly, the LH offer is €300mil for a core fleet of about 60 aircraft with an option on another 60.
Apparently on sticking point is LH on wants to acquire the airline operational unit of AZ, but not many of its support divisions like ground handling, maintenance, etc which would mean job losses.
A target date of December 19th was set to sign a LoI with the Italian government.

That is a generous offer by LH. If Italy turns it down...

There is pride and there is foolishness. Alitalia is foolishness.

Lightsaber
You only have the first amendment with the 2nd. If you're not going to offend someone with what you say, you don't have the 1st.
 
jeffrey1970
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Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:02 am

Why don't they just let it die, or maybe just fly to European cities, and domestic routes?
God bless through Jesus, Jeff
 
YIMBY
Posts: 359
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Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:26 am

NYPECO wrote:
So what's going to happen? Will Italy be the only country in western Europe without a major international airline, or will there be a replacement?


Most countries in western Europe do not have "a major international airline" if that is understood as an independent national airline with international traffic.

Most countries in western Europe have "a major international airline" if that is understood as a subsidiary or base of any European airline. Italy already has more than one.

The void from Alitalia will be replaced by major international airlines, do not worry.
 
andymartin
Posts: 95
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Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:38 am

Isnt Air Italy going to become the new 'national' airline?
 
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VCEflyboy
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Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:45 am

Quick update: AZ is in the process of removing all the Etihad partner logo and reverting to the old Skyteam logo.
 
xiaotung
Posts: 901
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 7:58 pm

Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:30 am

VCEflyboy wrote:
Quick update: AZ is in the process of removing all the Etihad partner logo and reverting to the old Skyteam logo.


Not surprising. EY has stopped using the Etihad Airways Partners logo for quite some time now
 
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VCEflyboy
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Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:15 am

xiaotung wrote:
VCEflyboy wrote:
Quick update: AZ is in the process of removing all the Etihad partner logo and reverting to the old Skyteam logo.


Not surprising. EY has stopped using the Etihad Airways Partners logo for quite some time now


Actually no. In some pages of the official AZ website the EY partner logo is still showing.
 
Jetty
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Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:21 am

NYPECO wrote:
So what's going to happen? Will Italy be the only country in western Europe without a major international airline, or will there be a replacement?

Belgium doesn't have one since the demise of Sabana, and then there are the multinational airline groups of course.
 
toxtethogrady
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Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:33 pm

 
superjeff
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Re: Alitalia Files For Bankruptcy

Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:32 pm

Jetty wrote:
NYPECO wrote:
So what's going to happen? Will Italy be the only country in western Europe without a major international airline, or will there be a replacement?

Belgium doesn't have one since the demise of Sabana, and then there are the multinational airline groups of course.


Sure they do: Brussels Airlines (I know its owned by Lufthansa, but it still uses the SN code (Former Sabena) and actually involves the former Delta Air Transport (DAT), much like Crossair in Switzerland essentially took over Swissair (and which, as Swiss Air Lines, is also owned by Lufthansa).

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