Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
pksundevil wrote:30% of Alitalia's revenues are from US operations? That's amazing.
commavia wrote:pksundevil wrote:30% of Alitalia's revenues are from US operations? That's amazing.
What I think is even more remarkable, albeit perhaps not necessarily all that surprising, is that JFK alone accounts for over 15% of the company's global revenue. That speaks to the enduring centrality of NYC to the overall transatlantic marketplace.
hawk44 wrote:If and I really hope it doesn't happen but if AZ folds do you think another SkyTeam member steps in to increase service and will SkyTeam look to add another member?
ScottB wrote:ro1960 wrote:Not an expert but why is an italian company filing for bankruptcy in the US? Sorry Not a subscriber so I can't read the whole article.
Because they have operations in the U.S., the U.S. Bankruptcy Code offers them access to the U.S. courts to deal with their debtors, claims, assets, etc. with respect to those operations; under Chapter 15, the case is ancillary to the Italian insolvency proceedings. In this particular case, their landlord at JFK planned to throw them out as of today due to unpaid bills while their telecom provider was going to cut service next week; with the bankruptcy filing, the landlord/vendors can't terminate service due to the past unpaid bills but AZ will have to stay current on its obligations post-filing.
uberflieger wrote:hawk44 wrote:If and I really hope it doesn't happen but if AZ folds do you think another SkyTeam member steps in to increase service and will SkyTeam look to add another member?
Sky Team is the alliance to lose most should Alitalia fold. Italian loyalists will have no more domestic and few European nonstop options and the Transcontinental void will quickly get filled by all competitors.
I would be very surprised if Air France wasn't one of the interested parties.
scotron11 wrote:Does it mean AZ is now having to pay daily for whatever airport charges are incurred?
uberflieger wrote:hawk44 wrote:If and I really hope it doesn't happen but if AZ folds do you think another SkyTeam member steps in to increase service and will SkyTeam look to add another member?
Sky Team is the alliance to lose most should Alitalia fold. Italian loyalists will have no more domestic and few European nonstop options and the Transcontinental void will quickly get filled by all competitors.
I would be very surprised if Air France wasn't one of the interested parties.
lightsaber wrote:uberflieger wrote:hawk44 wrote:If and I really hope it doesn't happen but if AZ folds do you think another SkyTeam member steps in to increase service and will SkyTeam look to add another member?
Sky Team is the alliance to lose most should Alitalia fold. Italian loyalists will have no more domestic and few European nonstop options and the Transcontinental void will quickly get filled by all competitors.
I would be very surprised if Air France wasn't one of the interested parties.
I would be shocked if AF was interested. There is no business case for investing in AZ. AF/KLM was emphatic they would not bid for Alitalia.
It is sad, but the only rescue would be another government investment. Etihad was there best hope and little reform occurred. How is AZ going to compete with LCCs with A321NEOs and -10 MAX?
Lightsaber
GCT64 wrote:Easyjet have confirmed that they are one of the companies that have expressed interest in AZ.
“We can confirm we are interested,” CEO Carolyn McCall told ATW at a media event in Toulouse June 14. She added: “We are not allowed to comment on the process, whatsoever. We have been asked by the government not to make any comments on Alitalia.”
The sale has had 32 expressions of interest, including FR that is interested in a connecting flight partnership.
bostero2 wrote:GCT64 wrote:Easyjet have confirmed that they are one of the companies that have expressed interest in AZ.
“We can confirm we are interested,” CEO Carolyn McCall told ATW at a media event in Toulouse June 14. She added: “We are not allowed to comment on the process, whatsoever. We have been asked by the government not to make any comments on Alitalia.”
The sale has had 32 expressions of interest, including FR that is interested in a connecting flight partnership.
Let's keep in mind that these expressions of interest are just that, companies asking to view the balances before making a non-binding offer. Also there have been reports that a considerable number of AZ's pilots are already signing contracts with other companies (mostly in China and the UAE). And to make matters worse there is another strike today (though this time it's a general transport sector strike).
Also today the government appointed interventor has corrected the information of 32 expressions of interest saying that there were actually 33.
11725Flyer wrote:My prediction - Alitalia will cease to exist within the next 12 months.
uberflieger wrote:Sky Team is the alliance to lose most should Alitalia fold. Italian loyalists will have no more domestic and few European nonstop options and the Transcontinental void will quickly get filled by all competitors.
I would be very surprised if Air France wasn't one of the interested parties.
LJ wrote:uberflieger wrote:Thus I doubt Skyteam is feeling any pain.
sassiciai wrote:Arghh! The English grammar police service has been alerted by the title! But this time, it was decided not to take action. It's not worth the problem, its service to the English-speaking population is on a loosing streak
I hope Alitalia pulls through somehow, at least its logo is very pretty!
stefanJ wrote:sassiciai wrote:Arghh! The English grammar police service has been alerted by the title! But this time, it was decided not to take action. It's not worth the problem, its service to the English-speaking population is on a loosing streak
I hope Alitalia pulls through somehow, at least its logo is very pretty!
The irony in your statement is that your spelling seems to be on a losing streak. "Attend to yourself first, before helping others" said an onboard safety video not too long ago...
pksundevil wrote:30% of Alitalia's revenues are from US operations? That's amazing.
bostero2 wrote:The media today is saying that the administrators have narrowed down the expressions of interest to 15 for the next stage (non-binding offers). All the articles I've read talk about LH, FR, U2, DL, AF, EY (still), IAG. Though at this point the names of the interested are mostly rumors since it's all confidential and nothing has been communicated by AZ.
Also the entrance of the 77W (EI-WLA) that was scheduled for 5 Aug has been postponed to 30 Oct apparently because of some delays from the lessor.
bostero2 wrote:The media today is saying that the administrators have narrowed down the expressions of interest to 15 for the next stage (non-binding offers). All the articles I've read talk about LH, FR, U2, DL, AF, EY (still), IAG. Though at this point the names of the interested are mostly rumors since it's all confidential and nothing has been communicated by AZ.
bostero2 wrote:The media today is saying that the administrators have narrowed down the expressions of interest to 15 for the next stage (non-binding offers). All the articles I've read talk about LH, FR, U2, DL, AF, EY (still), IAG. Though at this point the names of the interested are mostly rumors since it's all confidential and nothing has been communicated by AZ.
Also the entrance of the 77W (EI-WLA) that was scheduled for 5 Aug has been postponed to 30 Oct apparently because of some delays from the lessor.
davidjohnson6 wrote:At this stage, think of Alitalia as an unconscious old drunkard lying on the street who needs to sell his final belongings to get another fix of alcohol, while a few local thugs go through his pockets and decide which things they might want to 'buy' from him ! Do not magine in any way that these nonbinding expressions of interest are anything other than self-centred - the vast majority of them will almost certainly not progress to buying Alitalia the company
VolvoBus wrote:I am still totally baffled why anybody would actually want to buy AZ.
L1049L1011 wrote:Does anyone have experience with Millemiglia? I've long distance flights coming up with AZ, and inquired with the Millemiglia customer service about the possibility of using miles for an upgrade either way. The booking class (H) allows for upgrades. After voicing my interest, I was put on hold for 15min, and then told that there are no upgrades possible to any higher class on any of the flights.
Yet at the same time, AZ keeps pestering me with emails that I should place a bid (e.g., Euro 500) with upgrade.plusgrade.com for an upgrade on exactly these flights.
In can understand that AZ is now scrambling for every Euro, US$, £ they can get get, but I'm starting to wonder if Millemiglia has turned into a scam?
ScottB wrote:scotron11 wrote:Does it mean AZ is now having to pay daily for whatever airport charges are incurred?
That's a bit murkier, actually. In the U.S., ordinary expenses for a business (i.e. terminal charges, telecom expenses in this case) incurred post-petition are generally accorded administrative claim status which basically means they get paid first when the bankruptcy is settled (through reorganization or liquidation). AZ might not have to pay up-front simply because the vendors/suppliers, if they do their paperwork correctly, are more or less guaranteed to get what they're owed for everything after June 12. The vendors/suppliers also cannot withhold service without approval from the bankruptcy court.
aemoreira1981 wrote:Alitalia has further delayed its B77W entry into service...will it ever happen?
http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... -oct-2017/
As for the airline and buying it, creditors should take over the Linate operation and then flip it to another airline and sell off AZ's slots at JFK Airport (currently 28 weekly, 4 a day), but the demise of Alitalia would really open up competition on LIN-FCO with Ryanair (already with an extensive Italy domestic network but not Milan to Rome) and Norwegian ready to pounce. The airline should finally die. I would expect IAG and Norwegian to bid for the JFK slots.
ec99 wrote:Does anyone know if Italian bankruptcy law allows the court to sell off assets piecemeal a la the TWA bankruptcy? It makes the most sense but the Italian legal system is very very different from the Anglo-American system.
ec99 wrote:You are assuming Alitalia is going through chapter 11 bankruptcy. They are in chapter 15, which is designed to allow foreign companies to complete bankruptcy in their own country. I'm not an expert on chapter 15 but the chapter 11 payoff rules cannot apply since if that was the case you would have two conflicting bankruptcy decisions, one in the USA and one in your home country. But it is largely irrelevant since it is unlikely any business is going to sell much to AZ on credit since if they go bankrupt the business would then have to wait a year to get paid while the case goes through court. Getting paid is good, having to wait a year to get paid is bad. Also, in bankruptcy people often forget who really gets paid first. It is the lawyers. Lawyers wrote the bankruptcy code and you better believe they, as well as the specialists required to turn around/liquidate a large company get paid first. This does make sense though since trying to take a company through bankruptcy without lawyers and accountants would be impossible.
ScottB wrote:ec99 wrote:You are assuming Alitalia is going through chapter 11 bankruptcy. They are in chapter 15, which is designed to allow foreign companies to complete bankruptcy in their own country. I'm not an expert on chapter 15 but the chapter 11 payoff rules cannot apply since if that was the case you would have two conflicting bankruptcy decisions, one in the USA and one in your home country. But it is largely irrelevant since it is unlikely any business is going to sell much to AZ on credit since if they go bankrupt the business would then have to wait a year to get paid while the case goes through court. Getting paid is good, having to wait a year to get paid is bad. Also, in bankruptcy people often forget who really gets paid first. It is the lawyers. Lawyers wrote the bankruptcy code and you better believe they, as well as the specialists required to turn around/liquidate a large company get paid first. This does make sense though since trying to take a company through bankruptcy without lawyers and accountants would be impossible.
Under Chapter 15, there is a clause which requires the Court to ensure that domestic creditors are "sufficiently protected." In practice, that means that domestic creditors are expected to receive at least comparable protections as they would in an entirely domestic proceeding based on the local assets. Chapter 15 also requires the Court to ensure that decisions made by the foreign court are not prejudicial with respect to U.S.-based creditors. I interpret this as meaning that the U.S. assets would be used to ensure payment of administrative claims just as they would be in Chapter 11 or 7, although the Court has no jurisdiction over foreign assets.
Osubuckeyes wrote:Maybe someone could shed some light on this: I'm considering booking BCN-LIN in November as this is the best timing and convenience for this flight. It is only $50 so not a huge loss, but I would obviously like to avoid that if I can. I was wondering what the likelyhood of AZ ceasing before then is? Additionally, do credit cards with travel insurance generally cover for this type of thing?
Nola wrote:Any updates? Considering a flight in October/November through FCO. Best to purchase through AF/KLM or DL instead of AZ?