According to this article Norwegian's CCO mentioned these three cities for possible service once the MAX8 and 321LR are delivered.

We first have to see how the new flights to SWF, BDL and PVD will work, now grab your popcorn and enjoy:)

Makes total sense. How long before Norwegian start serving secondary Canadian cities I wonder?

Really, which airports haven't Norwegian considered?

[photoid][/photoid]

msycajun wrote:

Really, which airports haven't Norwegian considered?

Or have been linked to

I keep forgetting that DY/D8 actually doesn't do Europe from BWI, its that much of a no brainer. However I can see the airport not wanting BWI-LGW considering their BA subsidy

Dominion301 wrote:

Makes total sense. How long before Norwegian start serving secondary Canadian cities I wonder?

Well, they currently don't fly to Canada at all. Thunk costs and also some issues with flying rights had mase them prioritize USA

Dominion301 wrote:

Makes total sense. How long before Norwegian start serving secondary Canadian cities I wonder?

They will probably wait to see how the Stewart,Providence and Hartford flights have done first.

Yeah, I always found it odd that Norwegian flies those Caribbean routes from BWI but nothing TATL. Considering they already have the facilities ready to go I think that would be a slam dunk.

RDU - I can see it, good catchment area, could get cost-sensitive fliers driving from CLT where AA has a virtual monopoly on TATL. I can see it also pulling from Eastern North Carolina which is closer to RDU than CLT. If RDU has more service and better fares, I can definitely see a lot of people there wanting to drive to RDU than connect in CLT.

BUF - I don't see it. Too small, too far from YYZ. They might manage to get some leakage from ROC and SYR areas. Does IAG have a FIS? I personally think that might be a better option if the goal is to capture leakage from YYZ and YHM. They would still likely capture a lot of the BUF local market. It may only hurt them with ROC and SYR leakage.

RDU with a 788 definitely makes sense---it's not a hub for American, but RDU has service to Heathrow from the BA joint venture. I doubt that Buffalo will work, but BWI definitely could work with a 788 or A321neoLR. (The presumption is that the service would be to Gatwick.) I suggest wide bodies because RDU has a good catchment area and because WOW uses wide-bodies between BWI and KEF.

Buffalo serves the Niagria Falls, a major tourist attraction. I can see that as a popular destination from Europe. The Canadian airports on the other side of the border fall under different laws and taxes which might be less attractive to Norwegian. Raleigh-Durham would mostly serve Americans on their way to Europe as it doesn't draw much tourism from Europe. There's just nothing special there, but it does have a good cachment area.

Baltimore-Washington is already connected to Europe on another LCC, namely WOW Air. I guess Norwegian wants to take it over.

I think there is room in the market for another carrier to Europe from BWI. WOW certainly shows that is can be done. BA passenger numbers are up nicely.

Don't forget about the Norwegian codeshare with Ryanair to supply feed at some airports. Overall, I'm looking forward to seeing BWI-DUB, BWI-EDI, BWI-AMS, and BWI-CDG.

Wait....I just found a Norwegian press release that says their first A321LR planes will be delivered in 2019. 2019.

Whatever Norwegian.

BUF is quite smart. Niagara Falls & Ontario. A way to taste Canada.

I assume Canada is too expensive for them though.

I wonder whether BTV could make a decent seasonal market. Vermonters like to travel in the summer and the airport is also increasingly used by Canadians in the Montreal area. The catchment area is also larger in the summer when there's less snow/ice on the roads - Quebec, New Hampshire, etc.

I was of the opinion that if Norwegian were going for Canada it would be Toronto-Hamilton YHM and Vancouver-Abbotsford YXX as theses are the secondary airports for the two main cities. The only snag is that Canadian air taxes are high and the market is very heavily controlled by AC and WS.

Long-haul LCC to Canada has been tried in the past, with both Z4 and Y2 but both are no more.

If there was ever a customer that would be all over a Boeing Twin aisle MOM that offered great ecomomics, it would be DY. And those markets just outside of the A32lr range and maybe too small for a 788 from London, Paris, ect.

Plus, thinking about their entry into Argentina and what may even be Brazil with their new foreign ownership laws.

This article kinda shows where there's potential for such an airplane and markets that could support 2x weekly flights at least seasonally with some demand each way. Look at where Memphis' top international vistors come from

http://www.commercialappeal.com/story/m ... /97861942/

BTV runway is too short especially in a SE operation with the giant mountain at the end.

Plattsburg would be the better option for European service in that area. But both are weak

I just can't see them using BUF. Maybe if the flight is once week. RDU would be the top of the list.

I may never understand their hesitation to go TATL from BWI. WW and BA may be deterrents, but there's plenty of traffic here.

lavalampluva wrote:

I just can't see them using BUF. Maybe if the flight is once week. RDU would be the top of the list.

I don't agree. Really, what is there in Raleigh-Durham or it's surroundings that attracts passengers from Europe? What is there in North Carolina at all? As far as I can see, nothing! Buffalo on the other hand has the Niagara Falls which attract a lot of tourists, it's world famous. It's also quite close to the Canadian border so they can attract passengers to/from Hamilton and even Toronto. Buffalo really has great potential. Raleigh-Durham? Most Europeans never even heard of it. It's in the middle of nowhere anyway.

jfklganyc wrote:

BTV runway is too short especially in a SE operation with the giant mountain at the end.

Plattsburg would be the better option for European service in that area. But both are weak

Burlington at least has a longer runway than Providence which they currently plan to use as an alternative to Boston. Can't see them using a 787 there, but a 737 should be possible and at a low frequency it might just be profitable. On the other hand they might pick Portland Maine, just a few meters longer than Providence but also a tiny bit closer to Europe. Might confuse some people thinking they're going to Portland Oregon.

Just asking if Norwegian was to fly to Chicago which airport would it be?

TheGeordielad wrote:

Just asking if Norwegian was to fly to Chicago which airport would it be?

Not yet, but I'm sure at some point in the future they will. Too early to say what airport.

PatrickZ80 wrote:

TheGeordielad wrote:

Just asking if Norwegian was to fly to Chicago which airport would it be?

Not yet, but I'm sure at some point in the future they will. Too early to say what airport.

Thanks for letting me know.

PatrickZ80 wrote:

lavalampluva wrote:

I just can't see them using BUF. Maybe if the flight is once week. RDU would be the top of the list.

I don't agree. Really, what is there in Raleigh-Durham or it's surroundings that attracts passengers from Europe? What is there in North Carolina at all? As far as I can see, nothing! Buffalo on the other hand has the Niagara Falls which attract a lot of tourists, it's world famous. It's also quite close to the Canadian border so they can attract passengers to/from Hamilton and even Toronto. Buffalo really has great potential. Raleigh-Durham? Most Europeans never even heard of it. It's in the middle of nowhere anyway.

Well, there's this little pharmaceutical company called GlaxoSmithKline

RDU has had direct service to LHR on AA for over 20 years and also has service to CDG on DL, whereas BUF has no European service. Please do your research before bashing an entire area.

Flew them for the first time last week BOS-LGW. They offer a nice product.

More Florida destinations?

Where are they now?
MCO & FLL?

PatrickZ80 wrote:

lavalampluva wrote:

I just can't see them using BUF. Maybe if the flight is once week. RDU would be the top of the list.

I don't agree. Really, what is there in Raleigh-Durham or it's surroundings that attracts passengers from Europe? What is there in North Carolina at all? As far as I can see, nothing! Buffalo on the other hand has the Niagara Falls which attract a lot of tourists, it's world famous. It's also quite close to the Canadian border so they can attract passengers to/from Hamilton and even Toronto. Buffalo really has great potential. Raleigh-Durham? Most Europeans never even heard of it. It's in the middle of nowhere anyway.

You really shouldn't make comments about topics you don't know anything about. RDU has the Research Triangle Park which is home to many pharma and technology companies (GSK, for example). There are also three major universities within twenty miles of the airport. RDU already has two daily TATL flights, DL to CDG on a 757 (upgrading to 767 in May) and AA to LHR on a 777. There is also a huge Indian population in the Raleigh metro. Many of these people that have US visas use the LHR service to connect to DOH and HYD.

PatrickZ80 wrote:

lavalampluva wrote:

I just can't see them using BUF. Maybe if the flight is once week. RDU would be the top of the list.

I don't agree. Really, what is there in Raleigh-Durham or it's surroundings that attracts passengers from Europe? What is there in North Carolina at all? As far as I can see, nothing! Buffalo on the other hand has the Niagara Falls which attract a lot of tourists, it's world famous. It's also quite close to the Canadian border so they can attract passengers to/from Hamilton and even Toronto. Buffalo really has great potential. Raleigh-Durham? Most Europeans never even heard of it. It's in the middle of nowhere anyway.

Here, here. This what I meant by the flights to Denver. Even a few folk on Norwegian's Facebook page mentioned about what is there at Denver. New York-Stewart is trying to get traffic to head to the local area as well to NYC, and creating a promotion to support local tourism. Non-wellknown American destinations have to really push the boat to get any business, it can't rely on just the Ryanair effect.

rajincajun01 wrote:

PatrickZ80 wrote:

lavalampluva wrote:

I just can't see them using BUF. Maybe if the flight is once week. RDU would be the top of the list.

I don't agree. Really, what is there in Raleigh-Durham or it's surroundings that attracts passengers from Europe? What is there in North Carolina at all? As far as I can see, nothing! Buffalo on the other hand has the Niagara Falls which attract a lot of tourists, it's world famous. It's also quite close to the Canadian border so they can attract passengers to/from Hamilton and even Toronto. Buffalo really has great potential. Raleigh-Durham? Most Europeans never even heard of it. It's in the middle of nowhere anyway.

You really shouldn't make comments about topics you don't know anything about. RDU has the Research Triangle Park which is home to many pharma and technology companies (GSK, for example). There are also three major universities within twenty miles of the airport. RDU already has two daily TATL flights, DL to CDG on a 757 (upgrading to 767 in May) and AA to LHR on a 777. There is also a huge Indian population in the Raleigh metro. Many of these people that have US visas use the LHR service to connect to DOH and HYD.

Universities and India, yes. Pharma traffic to LON is mostly under AA contracts, IIRC.
The Indian populations in the RDU and CLT metros has visibly exploded, especially over the last ~5ish years. It'd be interesting to see what the daily traffic on CLT/RDU-Europe connecting to the Subcontinent is.

smallvoyageur wrote:

I was of the opinion that if Norwegian were going for Canada it would be Toronto-Hamilton YHM and Vancouver-Abbotsford YXX as theses are the secondary airports for the two main cities. The only snag is that Canadian air taxes are high and the market is very heavily controlled by AC and WS.

Long-haul LCC to Canada has been tried in the past, with both Z4 and Y2 but both are no more.

Z4 was a big success until a) they strayed from their business model and set up a UK subsidiary that bled cash by directly trying to take on the giants in the LON-NYC marketplace and b) the rapid spike in oil prices, which caused their dumb move in a) to result in their collapse. As a result Norwegian's SWF on a 738 strategy is brilliant and I think will succeed...not to mention the fact as that Norwegian is huge and has a much bigger war chest to survive the bad times.

PatrickZ80 wrote:

I don't agree. Really, what is there in Raleigh-Durham or it's surroundings that attracts passengers from Europe? What is there in North Carolina at all? As far as I can see, nothing! Buffalo on the other hand has the Niagara Falls which attract a lot of tourists, it's world famous. It's also quite close to the Canadian border so they can attract passengers to/from Hamilton and even Toronto. Buffalo really has great potential. Raleigh-Durham? Most Europeans never even heard of it. It's in the middle of nowhere anyway.

Come see for yourself, as you've obviously never been here.

Europeans are going to fly all the way to Buffalo to see Niagara Falls? And then what?

Not sure how I'd feel about Norwegian @ RDU. Might cannibalize/marginilize traffic on existing TATL routes.

PatrickZ80 wrote:

lavalampluva wrote:

I just can't see them using BUF. Maybe if the flight is once week. RDU would be the top of the list.

I don't agree. Really, what is there in Raleigh-Durham or it's surroundings that attracts passengers from Europe? What is there in North Carolina at all? As far as I can see, nothing! Buffalo on the other hand has the Niagara Falls which attract a lot of tourists, it's world famous. It's also quite close to the Canadian border so they can attract passengers to/from Hamilton and even Toronto. Buffalo really has great potential. Raleigh-Durham? Most Europeans never even heard of it. It's in the middle of nowhere anyway.

Since you asked, NC has mountains, beaches and great golf to name a few things. I guarantee you NC gets more European traffic to both the Outer Banks and Asheville than BUF does. I'll be the first to admit that RDU isn't a tourist Mecca but it does have a significantly higher disposable income and a much larger (and growing) catchment population. Household median income in Raleigh is also 70% higher than BUF.

msycajun wrote:

Really, which airports haven't Norwegian considered?

They haven't considered Detroit yet.

For what its worth, Norwegian Airlines were guests today at the Bi-Monthly meeting of the Chamber of Commerce in Salt Lake City.

TheGeordielad wrote:

[photoid][/photoid]

msycajun wrote:

Really, which airports haven't Norwegian considered?

Or have been linked to

Ithaca, Elmira or Binghamton, NY. I can see a market there...(sarcasm intended...)

RDUDDJI wrote:

Not sure how I'd feel about Norwegian @ RDU. Might cannibalize/marginilize traffic on existing TATL routes.

PatrickZ80 wrote:

lavalampluva wrote:

I just can't see them using BUF. Maybe if the flight is once week. RDU would be the top of the list.

I don't agree. Really, what is there in Raleigh-Durham or it's surroundings that attracts passengers from Europe? What is there in North Carolina at all? As far as I can see, nothing! Buffalo on the other hand has the Niagara Falls which attract a lot of tourists, it's world famous. It's also quite close to the Canadian border so they can attract passengers to/from Hamilton and even Toronto. Buffalo really has great potential. Raleigh-Durham? Most Europeans never even heard of it. It's in the middle of nowhere anyway.

Since you asked, NC has mountains, beaches and great golf to name a few things. I guarantee you NC gets more European traffic to both the Outer Banks and Asheville than BUF does. I'll be the first to admit that RDU isn't a tourist Mecca but it does have a significantly higher disposable income and a much larger (and growing) catchment population. Household median income in Raleigh is also 70% higher than BUF.

Unless I'm misinformed (very possible), BUF could be done using a 737-8 where RDU would need something bigger. A two or three weekly summer seasonal flight on a 737 seems like it would have potential.

It's hilarious how this forums works. Last time there's was a Norwegian thread, I brought up YYZ, and people were adamant that there wasn't sufficient demand...YYZ with 33 destinations in Europe, including many with considerable frequency (Peak YYZ-London is 10x daily for example) yet there was not enough demand for some. Now this comes up and there isn't even close to the resistance for cities with less flights per hour then per minute to Toronto. Sorry for the Toronto centric rant, look at my username, should tell you where I'm from and what I know. It goes to show how little logic goes into this forum at times. If someone presents a source suggesting that something might happen, maybe it's best to consider why it might work rather then why it won't. I applaude people in this thread for doing just that.

aemoreira1981 wrote:

RDU with a 788 definitely makes sense---it's not a hub for American, but RDU has service to Heathrow from the BA joint venture

RDU had LON service lonnnnng before AA and BA were in a j/v.

WaywardMemphian wrote:

If there was ever a customer that would be all over a Boeing Twin aisle MOM that offered great ecomomics, it would be DY.

CM too, they'd likely be all over that. Could finally hit anywhere in the Americas nonstop.

jfklganyc wrote:

BTV runway is too short

8300ft should be fine for a route like BTV-LGW, that's barely 6hr.
Now, as for demand....

Delta066 wrote:

RDU has had direct service to LHR on AA for over 20 years

To LON yes, but not LHR.
For most of its existence, the route was at LGW.

klm617 wrote:

msycajun wrote:

Really, which airports haven't Norwegian considered?

They haven't considered Detroit yet.

And they wont, EVER.... because they're out to get you.
Be afraid.

PatrickZ80 is quite right in that nobody in Europe knows where the hell Raleigh is. I don"t understand either the posters here talking about Indians in the area. What is the relation with Norwegian which does not even fly to India? (and with rock bottom ME3 fares US-India really no sense to self connect in London or anywhere in Europe).

However that area is demographically very dynamic, young and "millennial" http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/mor ... by-50.html In a way similar to Seattle or Denver (albeit Raleigh is smaller). Which is not case for Chicago or Detroit. So RDU screams Norwegian all over the place.

Norwegian does not only cater to European tourists to the US but also to American tourists in Europe. And don't forget that American tourism in Europe is a market with much more potential (demographics, currency exchange, change of habits - more Americans travelling abroad than ever before - etc)

AVLAirlineFreq wrote:

Europeans are going to fly all the way to Buffalo to see Niagara Falls? And then what?

They could easily fly Europe-BUF and then back home SWF/JFK/EWR-Europe (Norwegian will fly soon to three airports in the NYC area). It saves you one trip; otherwise you should fly Europe-NYC-Europe and then NYC-BUF-NYC.

That is the beauty of low cost, you can buy independent tickets and tailor your trips to your needs. Many people in Europe do that with Ryanair (even Americans, I fly Ryanair all the time, and I hear American accents pretty much in every flight, even in extremely odd city pairs for typical American tourism... but that is another beauty of low cost, it generates demand by itself).

In any case BUF seems very attractive because is a very diversified demand:

1) European tourists to Niagara Falls
2) Americans in BUF area which currently have no TATL options (DY will have the monopoly on non-stop TATL from the area)
3) Canadians from nearby Ontario

How low will the fares from BUF be compared to fares from YYZ? If it's significant and marketed properly I can see a large number of Canadian's taking this route. Back when the dollar was at parity there were huge numbers of Canadian's flying from airports near the border.

Edit: They could even charter buses from Toronto if they were so inclined.

the amount of Americans aware of Norwegian versus the amount of Europeans aware is like 20/80. most Americans will stick with the legacies or other airlines (BA has been popular as of late) than go with Norwegian. I would say the majority of DY's demand is tourism from the EU side.

RDU's two TATL flights are very business focused (both have corporate contracts) and people in the metro region are more than willing to pay legacy carrier prices (which are not all that high anyway) to sustain daily service. Norwegian coming in with less than daily service on a plane with no business class isn't going to take any corporate customers away from AA and DL. I think the only airline that could come in and do such a thing is Lufthansa, since there's plenty of onward connects to Germany from LHR and CDG, present day.

so that leaves Norwegian with the passengers that fill up the back of the bus. and I don't think they're going to get much tourism from Europe to North Carolina. so personally, I don't see a fit for Norwegian at RDU. I think Icelandair (since they have stronger onward connections) would be a better fit if a lower cost airline came in. but given the success of the current AA and DL flights, I think the next TATL flight we'd see from RDU would be DL to AMS or LH to FRA. I just can't picture Norwegian coming in to attempt LGW. there are much bigger fish for them to fry (I think BUF and BWI are decent ideas)

wenders825 wrote:

the amount of Americans aware of Norwegian versus the amount of Europeans aware is like 20/80. most Americans will stick with the legacies or other airlines (BA has been popular as of late) than go with Norwegian. I would say the majority of DY's demand is tourism from the EU side.

Do you have data to back this?

SCQ83 wrote:

wenders825 wrote:

the amount of Americans aware of Norwegian versus the amount of Europeans aware is like 20/80. most Americans will stick with the legacies or other airlines (BA has been popular as of late) than go with Norwegian. I would say the majority of DY's demand is tourism from the EU side.

Do you have data to back this?

ask most people outside of aviation circles if they've heard of Norwegian and see how it goes. I mention them to almost anyone and am always met with confused looks

so no, while I don't have numbers, I'd be surprised if I wasn't close to accurate there. most people I know going abroad this summer are using BA, Swiss, Lufthansa, or a US legacy. even LEVEL has gotten some mention from Bay Area friends. Icelandair is far, far more popular than Norwegian too.

I could see BUF being big for demand originating from the N. American side. It can easily pick up demand in Ontario from Hamilton and even as far as London (the Canadian one) since it's just as easy as getting to YYZ at that point. On the US, it could definitely pick up demand from as far away as Syracuse or Erie since there isn't much else in the way of options.

wenders825 wrote:

ask most people outside of aviation circles if they've heard of Norwegian and see how it goes. I mention them to almost anyone and am always met with confused looks

so no, while I don't have numbers, I'd be surprised if I wasn't close to accurate there. most people I know going abroad this summer are using BA, Swiss, Lufthansa, or a US legacy. even LEVEL has gotten some mention from Bay Area friends. Icelandair is far, far more popular than Norwegian too.

So no data to back this, pure assumptions. And saying that LEVEL is better known in the US than Norwegian... seriously.

SCQ83 wrote:

wenders825 wrote:

ask most people outside of aviation circles if they've heard of Norwegian and see how it goes. I mention them to almost anyone and am always met with confused looks

so no, while I don't have numbers, I'd be surprised if I wasn't close to accurate there. most people I know going abroad this summer are using BA, Swiss, Lufthansa, or a US legacy. even LEVEL has gotten some mention from Bay Area friends. Icelandair is far, far more popular than Norwegian too.

So no data to back this, pure assumptions. And saying that LEVEL is better known in the US than Norwegian... seriously.

similarly, how do you know LEVEL isn't better known than norwegian? where's your data?

Did the article mention London, cause it could potentially be routes like PVD has....

I cant believe they consider RDU and BUF before even serving Chicago and Washington DC, those are serious holes in their network.