First destination: MEL! Flights due to begin in September

JL will also launch more Hawaii flights amid tourist numbers falling in Europe

http://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Consume ... lia-Hawaii

clrd4t8koff wrote:

Overthecascades wrote:

clrd4t8koff wrote:

I'm just trying to follow this logic. Traveler's from other OneWorld hubs like ORD & DFW are going to fly via SEA on JL instead of flying non-stop on JL or AA from ORD/DFW-NRT?

No. Seattle and northwest region flyers who are OW customers and are now flying thru Vancouver and Chicago etc. I thought I said it pretty clearly.

To me your post was neither clear nor intelligent. Nobody is flying Seattle/Northwest BACK to ORD to turn around and fly back west to Asia. Maybe they'll fly a little south to SFO or LAX to connect to OW carrier. But back to ORD?

It made sense when I read it. The IDEA might not make sense, but the statement was clear enough.

kriskim wrote:

First destination: MEL! Flights due to begin in September

JL will also launch more Hawaii flights amid tourist numbers falling in Europe

http://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Consume ... lia-Hawaii

Interestingly from the article - "South Korea is another challenging market. The number of flights from the country to Japan is expected to rise about 20% from last summer to this one, mostly on the back of South Korean budget carriers. With fares likely to plunge, JAL may reduce or cancel its Narita-Seoul flights"

JAL actually has partial ownership of the perfect airline to combat this - Jetstar Japan! So if they wanted to re-structure their South Korea flights while codesharing they need only co-ordinate it with GK. The same goes for Taiwan and even some points in Southeast Asia and domestically. If I was JAL I'd be more aggressively deploying GK into markets to let them build it up to a point where JAL can either take it over or can fly alongside them.

Thanks for the news article link. In sum: NRT-MEL/KOA might coming soon. NRT-CDG/ICN might be cancelled soon in favor of HND-CDG/GMP. If NRT-ICN is gone, I hope AA add another ICN-US route.

JAL's presence at ICN is relatively small anyway, most of their Seoul flights are concentrated at GMP. I would imagine dropping ICN would be a relatively easy decision, but the handing over of some flights to GK would help with the proliferation of low cost Korean carriers on the Japan/South Korea market.

Wow... I wouldn't have believed it if someone told me ten years ago that JL would eventually end ICN service. In the mid-2000's, they had up to 10 daily flights at ICN, all on widebodies (in addition to 2x daily GMP). Today, it's down to a single daily 737, plus 3x daily 787/767 to GMP.

HeeseokKoo wrote:

Thanks for the news article link. In sum: NRT-MEL/KOA might coming soon. NRT-CDG/ICN might be cancelled soon in favor of HND-CDG/GMP. If NRT-ICN is gone, I hope AA add another ICN-US route.

Maybe LAX-ICN is on the horIzon for AA?

Someone above made a blanket statement along the lines of how a Seattle-based OneWorld passenger would never fly to Asia via ORD. I guess that a.net member has access to every single record locator number. Lol!

But anyway, I'm a Los Angeles-based Skyteam Passenger and I can recall on six different occasions where I've intentionally booked LAX-DTW-ICN itineraries due to different reasons; mostly due to last-minute bookings where DTWICN was the nearest connecting city with an available Businesselite Seat to ICN. You'd be amazed how often the KE Prestige Class Cabin is sold out when I need to book LAXICN either last-minute or about a week out.

The point of this reply is to note "backtracking" isn't the end-all of plane ticket purchasing decisions.

HeeseokKoo wrote:

Thanks for the news article link. In sum: NRT-MEL/KOA might coming soon. NRT-CDG/ICN might be cancelled soon in favor of HND-CDG/GMP. If NRT-ICN is gone, I hope AA add another ICN-US route.

Proposed schedule for NRT-KOA (from 15 SEP 17)

JL770 NRT2125 – 1015KOA 767 D
JL779 KOA1215 – 1600+1NRT 767 D

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... esumption/

Proposed schedule for NRT-MEL (from 1 SEP 17)

JL773 NRT1030 – 2155MEL 788 D
JL774 MEL0005 – 0905NRT 788 D

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... -sep-2017/

with UA also droppinig NRT-ICN, seems like KE will become the only legacy remain on the route?
Edit: OZ also have some frequency

qf789 wrote:

Proposed schedule for NRT-KOA (from 15 SEP 17)

JL770 NRT2125 – 1015KOA 767 D
JL779 KOA1215 – 1600+1NRT 767 D

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... esumption/

Proposed schedule for NRT-MEL (from 1 SEP 17)

JL773 NRT1030 – 2155MEL 788 D
JL774 MEL0005 – 0905NRT 788 D

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... -sep-2017/

MEL schedule is surprising.. could have left NRT at 6pm and come back at 4:30pm for better connection to all Asia and US/Canada. If it was due to NRT slot, JL would want to change the schedule in the next season.

Nice to see JL returning to KOA. Should be very interesting with HA on HND.

I wonder who will pick up the ground handling contract? This will be interesting as the airport is a mess right now because of the renovations. There literally is no counter space available so they'll have to use an existing airline's space.

ua2162 wrote:

Nice to see JL returning to KOA. Should be very interesting with HA on HND.

I wonder who will pick up the ground handling contract? This will be interesting as the airport is a mess right now because of the renovations. There literally is no counter space available so they'll have to use an existing airline's space.

From what I've heard, no one is showing much interest in handling JL in KOA.

77H

leleko747 wrote:

I wonder if JAL will ever come back to GRU.

Never say never, but given that EK, QR and ET are all flooding the BR market with very cheap r/t tickets on the GRU-Japan route, I highly doubt it.

Anyone have any information on the flight details of JAL NRT-IAD flights from back in the 1990's? I've searched departed flights but no luck. I hope I'm not going crazy. I distinctly remember a JAL Sakura Lounge at Dulles Airport.

I lived in DC from 1992-2014 and AFAIK JL did not fly to IAD. NH, however, has been flying to IAD since the 90s.

Here's a link to 1988 JL schedule, and they did not serve IAD back then.

http://timetableimages.com/ttimages/jl/jl8809/

clrd4t8koff wrote:

Overthecascades wrote:

A lot of the OneWorld flyers are currently routing through Vancouver or Chicago when they travel from Seattle to east Asia. So I think if JL starts Seattle, the demand will be there, not necessarily all coming from NH and DL but from other OneWorld hubs.

I'm just trying to follow this logic. Traveler's from other OneWorld hubs like ORD & DFW are going to fly via SEA on JL instead of flying non-stop on JL or AA from ORD/DFW-NRT?

He mentions how he knows of OneWorld passengers flying SEA-East Asia via ORD and YVR. Keyword: OneWorld. That means maybe CX via YVR or AA via ORD to East Asia are their only options for whatever the reason; but most-likely for loyalty.

My personal example of me being a loyal Skyteam passenger flying in Business Class will stay loyal even if that means flying via DTW to get an available seat in J. The point I've been trying to make is OneWorld and Skyteam passengers are willing to back-track to accrue and attain status, etc... how is that delusional? He gave an example. The same applies to Star Alliance passengers. You don't need to understand logic. It happens. Whatever. Dude, chill.

And I would rather fly via DTW to get to ICN on Skyteam even if Asiana (Star Alliance) had the only Business Class seat available on the day I wanted to leave.

Since I'm paying for J and earning miles to accrue mileage and retain status, then I would be a complete idiot to throw away $5-7,000 for nothing.

You go ahead with your logic and see how fast your miles add up... I'm happy with a 4-hour detour from time-to-time to allow me to experience a free F-cabin roundtrip from LAX to ICN or CDG... class J was nice with AF to Tahiti which is normally a $6,000 ticket.

So, tell us all again about delusional?

IAD?

HeeseokKoo wrote:

qf789 wrote:

Proposed schedule for NRT-KOA (from 15 SEP 17)

JL770 NRT2125 – 1015KOA 767 D
JL779 KOA1215 – 1600+1NRT 767 D

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... esumption/

Proposed schedule for NRT-MEL (from 1 SEP 17)

JL773 NRT1030 – 2155MEL 788 D
JL774 MEL0005 – 0905NRT 788 D

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... -sep-2017/

MEL schedule is surprising.. could have left NRT at 6pm and come back at 4:30pm for better connection to all Asia and US/Canada. If it was due to NRT slot, JL would want to change the schedule in the next season.

MEL-NRT is more about O&D than it is connections and especially at that time of the year, and the increasing popularity of Japan as a skiing destination, allowing maximum connections on the NRT end makes sense to get people up to CTS and the ski fields. No doubt JL also doesn't want a 788 sitting on the tarmac at MEL all day for the overnight home so the schedule kind of is what it is.

I'm shocked it's not YYZ. It's one of the largest and wealthiest cities in North America, and a global financial centre. Really don't see how they couldn't make it work.

There are a lot of more options for JAPAN AIR to expand like there is no ASIA NON STOP service from MIA, also what about AUS to NRT even with DFW having it, AUS still could benefit.

AirAfreak wrote:

Anyone have any information on the flight details of JAL NRT-IAD flights from back in the 1990's? I've searched departed flights but no luck. I hope I'm not going crazy. I distinctly remember a JAL Sakura Lounge at Dulles Airport.

JL26 NRT 11:55 - IAD 11:20 747 Tu, Sa
JL26 NRT 11:00 - IAD 10:25 747 Th

JL25 IAD 12:15 - NRT 14:55+1 747 Tu, Th
JL25 IAD 14:20 - NRT 17:00+1 747 Sa
(Summer 1991)

Inaugural: 3/30/1991
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nerPcogCsq8

Suspend: 11/1/1995

AirAfreak wrote:

He mentions how he knows of OneWorld passengers flying SEA-East Asia via ORD and YVR. Keyword: OneWorld. That means maybe CX via YVR or AA via ORD to East Asia are their only options for whatever the reason; but most-likely for loyalty.

My personal example of me being a loyal Skyteam passenger flying in Business Class will stay loyal even if that means flying via DTW to get an available seat in J. The point I've been trying to make is OneWorld and Skyteam passengers are willing to back-track to accrue and attain status, etc... how is that delusional? He gave an example. The same applies to Star Alliance passengers. You don't need to understand logic. It happens. Whatever. Dude, chill.

And I would rather fly via DTW to get to ICN on Skyteam even if Asiana (Star Alliance) had the only Business Class seat available on the day I wanted to leave.

Since I'm paying for J and earning miles to accrue mileage and retain status, then I would be a complete idiot to throw away $5-7,000 for nothing.

You go ahead with your logic and see how fast your miles add up... I'm happy with a 4-hour detour from time-to-time to allow me to experience a free F-cabin roundtrip from LAX to ICN or CDG... class J was nice with AF to Tahiti which is normally a $6,000 ticket.

So, tell us all again about delusional?

You have multiple SkyTeam options from the west coast to ICN. If you're so loyal to ST how do you not know this? Do you see why you might be delusional now?

LAX-ICN, SFO-ICN, LAS-ICN, SEA-ICN (DL & KE), YVR-ICN. You don't need to fly back to DTW to stay loyal to ST. That is my argument - you are the minority. You do not value your time, you value maximizing your Skymiles account.

The same goes for the OP I originally commented on. Very few people are flying SEA-ORD/DFW-NRT just to stay on Oneworld when they can fly SEA-YVR/SFO/LAX on AA partners AS and connect to a Oneworld carrier. They don't need to go all the way back to DFW or ORD.

Tabito wrote:

AirAfreak wrote:

Anyone have any information on the flight details of JAL NRT-IAD flights from back in the 1990's? I've searched departed flights but no luck. I hope I'm not going crazy. I distinctly remember a JAL Sakura Lounge at Dulles Airport.

JL26 NRT 11:55 - IAD 11:20 747 Tu, Sa
JL26 NRT 11:00 - IAD 10:25 747 Th

JL25 IAD 12:15 - NRT 14:55+1 747 Tu, Th
JL25 IAD 14:20 - NRT 17:00+1 747 Sa
(Summer 1991)

Inaugural: 3/30/1991
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nerPcogCsq8

Suspend: 11/1/1995

Did not remember this flight. Now, ANA started flying to DC in late 86 or 1987. So both airlines operated in DC 1991-95? Seems a bit of overkill for the DC market 25 years ago.

Tabito wrote:

AirAfreak wrote:

Anyone have any information on the flight details of JAL NRT-IAD flights from back in the 1990's? I've searched departed flights but no luck. I hope I'm not going crazy. I distinctly remember a JAL Sakura Lounge at Dulles Airport.

JL26 NRT 11:55 - IAD 11:20 747 Tu, Sa
JL26 NRT 11:00 - IAD 10:25 747 Th

JL25 IAD 12:15 - NRT 14:55+1 747 Tu, Th
JL25 IAD 14:20 - NRT 17:00+1 747 Sa
(Summer 1991)

Inaugural: 3/30/1991
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nerPcogCsq8

Suspend: 11/1/1995

May I just respectfully say thank you so much for posting this schedule.

A very small part of me was slightly beginning to think maybe I'm going crazy or I inherited Alzheimer's from my grandmother based on some of the previous replies from other members not recalling JAL flights at IAD.

JAL Executive Class was amazing for the few times I was able to experience this treat after being surprised at the gate with a complimentary upgrade with a new boarding pass. I wasn't an elite status member, but the agents seemed really friendly, hospitable, and generous at IAD. Maybe because I was a UM-passenger, they wanted to keep a close watch in me. JAL had this noodle snack called, "Udon de Sky" which was a comforting noodle soup snack. Cabin Crew would pack me a duty-free skyshop bag with extras to take home to enjoy.

Thanks again so much!

AirAfreak wrote:

clrd4t8koff wrote:

Overthecascades wrote:

A lot of the OneWorld flyers are currently routing through Vancouver or Chicago when they travel from Seattle to east Asia. So I think if JL starts Seattle, the demand will be there, not necessarily all coming from NH and DL but from other OneWorld hubs.

I'm just trying to follow this logic. Traveler's from other OneWorld hubs like ORD & DFW are going to fly via SEA on JL instead of flying non-stop on JL or AA from ORD/DFW-NRT?

He mentions how he knows of OneWorld passengers flying SEA-East Asia via ORD and YVR. Keyword: OneWorld. That means maybe CX via YVR or AA via ORD to East Asia are their only options for whatever the reason; but most-likely for loyalty.

My personal example of me being a loyal Skyteam passenger flying in Business Class will stay loyal even if that means flying via DTW to get an available seat in J. The point I've been trying to make is OneWorld and Skyteam passengers are willing to back-track to accrue and attain status, etc... how is that delusional? He gave an example. The same applies to Star Alliance passengers. You don't need to understand logic. It happens. Whatever. Dude, chill.

And I would rather fly via DTW to get to ICN on Skyteam even if Asiana (Star Alliance) had the only Business Class seat available on the day I wanted to leave.

Since I'm paying for J and earning miles to accrue mileage and retain status, then I would be a complete idiot to throw away $5-7,000 for nothing.

You go ahead with your logic and see how fast your miles add up... I'm happy with a 4-hour detour from time-to-time to allow me to experience a free F-cabin roundtrip from LAX to ICN or CDG... class J was nice with AF to Tahiti which is normally a $6,000 ticket.

So, tell us all again about delusional?

What frequent flyer benefits do status-holders get over business class pax?
If you fly JL TPAC in C frequentlly enough, you can become a Jal Global Club status holder and have Oneworld Sapphire elite status for life.
No need to back-track.

If you value status and good service, I really suggest the LAX-NRT-ICN routing for you with JL. The service is miles ahead anything any Skyteam carrier will offer you.

SEA-NRT might work, but it might be very seasonal. I don't see this route being popular during the winter months.
LAS-NRT would work for sure with a B788.

nascar1 wrote:

Hope to see BCN in their plans.

I would think if they went Spain, they'd do a HND-MAD since they are part of the JV with IB, AY, and BA and IB for onward connections to Latin America

LupineChemist wrote:

nascar1 wrote:

Hope to see BCN in their plans.

I would think if they went Spain, they'd do a HND-MAD since they are part of the JV with IB, AY, and BA and IB for onward connections to Latin America

Spain is not an authorized service point from HND. Any such flight would need to be from NRT.

gregn21 wrote:

HeeseokKoo wrote:

Thanks for the news article link. In sum: NRT-MEL/KOA might coming soon. NRT-CDG/ICN might be cancelled soon in favor of HND-CDG/GMP. If NRT-ICN is gone, I hope AA add another ICN-US route.

Maybe LAX-ICN is on the horIzon for AA?

it needs to be. DFW performs very well from what we're aware of

dcajet wrote:

leleko747 wrote:

I wonder if JAL will ever come back to GRU.

Never say never, but given that EK, QR and ET are all flooding the BR market with very cheap r/t tickets on the GRU-Japan route, I highly doubt it.

ET flies to GRU? And would European long haul LCCs like Finnair or Norwegian have a chance against them in NE Asia - GRU?

The MEL schedule compliments the QF service nicely. Is there a reason why QF and JL don't codeshare? Or is this a rumour I've gotten wrong

OSL should not be an impossible route. With tourism both ways and Norwegian salmon, this route would be interesting for JAL.

c933103 wrote:

dcajet wrote:

leleko747 wrote:

I wonder if JAL will ever come back to GRU.

Never say never, but given that EK, QR and ET are all flooding the BR market with very cheap r/t tickets on the GRU-Japan route, I highly doubt it.

ET flies to GRU? And would European long haul LCCs like Finnair or Norwegian have a chance against them in NE Asia - GRU?

Yes, it does with the 788 via Lome, Togo.

The Brazil - Asia market seems to be well covered by QR, EK, ET and CA. The bulk of the traffic is ethnic JP-BR, thanks to the largest Japanese community outside of Japan (mostly in the states of Sao Paulo and Parana). Norwegian does not fly to either country and I am certain Finnair does not have suicidal tendencies.

On another forum it's posted that there is yet one more new JL destination, besides KOA and MEL. Any guesses?

I suppose the most popular idea here would be MIA.

According to Airlineroute, JAL announced a seasonal suspension on NRT-CDG route.

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... -oct-2017/

dcajet wrote:

c933103 wrote:

dcajet wrote:

Never say never, but given that EK, QR and ET are all flooding the BR market with very cheap r/t tickets on the GRU-Japan route, I highly doubt it.

ET flies to GRU? And would European long haul LCCs like Finnair or Norwegian have a chance against them in NE Asia - GRU?

Yes, it does with the 788 via Lome, Togo.

The Brazil - Asia market seems to be well covered by QR, EK, ET and CA. The bulk of the traffic is ethnic JP-BR, thanks to the largest Japanese community outside of Japan (mostly in the states of Sao Paulo and Parana). Norwegian does not fly to either country and I am certain Finnair does not have suicidal tendencies.

Then ET's route from GRU to Japan is GRU-LFW-ADD-HKG-NRT. Is the pricing that attractive to make people opt for 3-stop?

c933103 wrote:

Then ET's route from GRU to Japan is GRU-LFW-ADD-HKG-NRT. Is the pricing that attractive to make people opt for 3-stop?

If the price is right, you bet.

Back in the 80s, SU used to operate IL86 flights from EZE to SVO - and connections to pretty much anywhere in Europe. The flight did tech stops at Salvador, Ilha do Sal, Algiers and Budapest, if memory serves. and then the connecting flight ex-SVO to places such as LHR, MAD, FCO, etc. There was no shortage of takers and I seem to remember SU would throw in a Moscow city tour - all for a couple hundred dollars less than IB, AZ, LH, SR, AR, RG, etc.

dcajet wrote:

c933103 wrote:

Then ET's route from GRU to Japan is GRU-LFW-ADD-HKG-NRT. Is the pricing that attractive to make people opt for 3-stop?

If the price is right, you bet.

Back in the 80s, SU used to operate IL86 flights from EZE to SVO - and connections to pretty much anywhere in Europe. The flight did tech stops at Salvador, Ilha do Sal, Algiers and Budapest, if memory serves. and then the connecting flight ex-SVO to places such as LHR, MAD, FCO, etc. There was no shortage of takers and I seem to remember SU would throw in a Moscow city tour - all for a couple hundred dollars less than IB, AZ, LH, SR, AR, RG, etc.

But a quick search on ET's site for a late September return trip shows a fare of 200,000 Yen, while searching with same date on expedia give me United and Delta flights that cost less than 1200USD...

Listen, not sure what you are trying to prove. From Brazil, the airlines I mentioned earlier, have very competitive fares to Asia. Make what you want of that. And do not forget that a good number of travelers do not have a US visa needed to transfer in the US; or they do not want the hassle of getting one.