NZ321
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:00 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2017

Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:40 am

How is traffic to the US? I was hoping for another North American destination. Maybe SEA, DEN, ORD. Seems a little early given Brazil economy to hope for a GRU route. And LIM? Seems the machinations of air-agreements means no service likely in the immediate future. So where will the extra capacity go?

Also, is it true that only 3 789 will be configured with additional premium seating? What are the implications of such a small sub-fleet for flexibility? I would have thought that the increased premium config would replace the 4 non-leased 772.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 5211
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2017

Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:44 am

MNL was indefinitely postponed or something to that affect. There is always spare capacity in winter but it often allows an operational spare and heavy maintanence.

I can't see any new long haul routes since nothing has been announced yet maybe a short haul one though with the freed up A320 with ADL going 789, personally i think the premium 789's will go to YVR, and the freed up 772's will increase frequency to TYO, HKG and more 789 flying to places like PVG and PER, I'm thinking PVG could be 11/12 weekly slot dependent up from 10 last season, maybe PER upto 14 weekly 11/12 AKL 2/3 CHC, more HND if they have the slots slightly less NRT, will they return to KIX? HKG extra 3 weekly, all flights timed to connect to EZE service.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 5211
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2017

Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:52 am

NZ321 wrote:
How is traffic to the US? I was hoping for another North American destination. Maybe SEA, DEN, ORD. Seems a little early given Brazil economy to hope for a GRU route. And LIM? Seems the machinations of air-agreements means no service likely in the immediate future. So where will the extra capacity go?

Also, is it true that only 3 789 will be configured with additional premium seating? What are the implications of such a small sub-fleet for flexibility? I would have thought that the increased premium config would replace the 4 non-leased 772.


US traffic seems fine, I'm not in the industry but like I said in my previous post I can't see another long haul route this year since they usually announce 10/12 months out. ORD still seems the best bet for the next US route, DEN will likely be performance limited ex DEN and the west coast is well covered so I can't see SEA.

I don't think it's true re the 789 configs, they just ordered another 789 for a late 2018 delivery which while not announced will likely be a premium bird giving 4 premium to cover 2 long haul routes each daily for peak season, so not to inflexible until 1 breaks and you need a different config to cover it. I'd certainly see future 789 order as more premium unless they need extra less premium birds. From what has been said no 772's will be going anywhere for atleast 5 years so it's still growth mode, if there is a downturn though I guess either 789's get pushed out or some 772's can be stored.
 
PA515
Posts: 1009
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:17 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2017

Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:00 am

NZ321 wrote:
So where will the extra capacity go?

Two 763s are being replaced by two 789s this year, so no extra capacity. But there could be some redistribution of capacity, especially on AKL-SFO as UA said they will be up to 10 weekly.
NZ321 wrote:
Also, is it true that only 3 789 will be configured with additional premium seating?

There was a report somewhere recently that said three with the additional premium seating, but I believe that was a mistake.

PA515
 
User avatar
LamboAston
Posts: 317
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:46 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2017

Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:22 am

ZKOJH wrote:
more information on NZ's choice of no J class on new A321's - but we knew it lol

Air New Zealand has chosen to go the all-economy route for its new Airbus A321neo and A320neo jets, which will take wing later this year.

The Star Alliance member has been steadily edging away from a commitment to business class on its new trans-Tasman fleet, which will replace the current A320 single-aisle jets which mainly fly its Australia-New Zealand routes.

From tip to tail the A320neo and A321neo jets will be fitted with a 'slimline' economy seat predictably finished in Kiwi black.


https://www.ausbt.com.au/air-new-zealan ... 21neo-jets

Also what is happening with the MNL route has it been official axed before even getting off the ground? seems now that all the 763's have gone they have spear capacity but nothing coming from Network planning, and with more 787's due later this year. wonder where the crystal ball is looking at lol.

Slimline probably means more plastic jutting into backs. Hopefully they aren't as bad as FZ's ones. The 789 is probably too big for MNL at the moment but a one weekly flight might work, or if it was a one stop to HKG, or some other major airport.
AS350, B733/4/7/8, B744/8, B762/3, B77E/L/W, B789, A319, A320, A321, A332, A346, A380, AT73/5/6, Q300, Q400, CR2/7, E190, S340, B1900C/D
NZ, EK, QF, SQ, UA, US, CO, FZ, FR, U2, BA, VA, VS, MH, EI, EY, LH, EN, NM, TG
 
PA515
Posts: 1009
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:17 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2017

Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:57 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
they just ordered another 789 for a late 2018 delivery which while not announced will likely be a premium bird giving 4 premium to cover 2 long haul routes each daily for peak season

Are you saying Air NZ will receive three 789s in 2018? There was an order for two in Dec 2014, one of which is for 2018 delivery, and the recently announced ALC lease for one. That would be a fleet total of thirteen (9 original config + 4 premium).

PA515
 
User avatar
LamboAston
Posts: 317
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:46 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2017

Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:12 pm

PA515 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
they just ordered another 789 for a late 2018 delivery which while not announced will likely be a premium bird giving 4 premium to cover 2 long haul routes each daily for peak season

Are you saying Air NZ will receive three 789s in 2018? There was an order for two in Dec 2014, one of which is for 2018 delivery, and the recently announced ALC lease for one. That would be a fleet total of thirteen (9 original config + 4 premium).

PA515

I thought a while back on here one of the premium 789s got pushed back to 2019, but I could be wrong.
AS350, B733/4/7/8, B744/8, B762/3, B77E/L/W, B789, A319, A320, A321, A332, A346, A380, AT73/5/6, Q300, Q400, CR2/7, E190, S340, B1900C/D
NZ, EK, QF, SQ, UA, US, CO, FZ, FR, U2, BA, VA, VS, MH, EI, EY, LH, EN, NM, TG
 
User avatar
LamboAston
Posts: 317
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:46 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2017

Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:43 pm

Also, will the NEOs have PTVs?
AS350, B733/4/7/8, B744/8, B762/3, B77E/L/W, B789, A319, A320, A321, A332, A346, A380, AT73/5/6, Q300, Q400, CR2/7, E190, S340, B1900C/D
NZ, EK, QF, SQ, UA, US, CO, FZ, FR, U2, BA, VA, VS, MH, EI, EY, LH, EN, NM, TG
 
zkncj
Posts: 2244
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2017

Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:05 pm

LamboAston wrote:
Also, will the NEOs have PTVs?


Yes - it was one of the reasons that the seats we're needing to modified from the AREO 3 design,

Image
 
sunrisevalley
Posts: 5240
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:26 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2017

Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:04 pm

PA515 wrote:
There was an order for two in Dec 2014, one of which is for 2018 delivery, and the recently announced ALC lease for one. That would be a fleet total of thirteen (9 original config + 4 premium).


This is correct. The 2017 Interim results lists deliveries as 2 purchased for FY2018 ( second half CY2017) and 1 purchased and 1 leased for FY2019 ( second half CY2018) .
 
User avatar
Zkpilot
Posts: 3863
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:21 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2017

Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:46 pm

ZKOJH wrote:
more information on NZ's choice of no J class on new A321's - but we knew it lol

Air New Zealand has chosen to go the all-economy route for its new Airbus A321neo and A320neo jets, which will take wing later this year.

The Star Alliance member has been steadily edging away from a commitment to business class on its new trans-Tasman fleet, which will replace the current A320 single-aisle jets which mainly fly its Australia-New Zealand routes.

From tip to tail the A320neo and A321neo jets will be fitted with a 'slimline' economy seat predictably finished in Kiwi black.


https://www.ausbt.com.au/air-new-zealan ... 21neo-jets


Looks like overall NZ is upping the number of WB services across the Tasman which of course have BP and PE on them.

Still would it have really hurt to have 8 business (basically the new PE seats) seats on the A321 in place of 18 economy seats?
Sure you lose capacity by 55% in that section but when you can charge 3x the price of economy you end up 25% better revenue overall.
Even if you only charge 2.5x more than economy you still come out ahead by 10%.
57 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
 
A330NZ
Posts: 159
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 2:23 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2017

Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:15 pm

Zkpilot wrote:
ZKOJH wrote:
more information on NZ's choice of no J class on new A321's - but we knew it lol

Air New Zealand has chosen to go the all-economy route for its new Airbus A321neo and A320neo jets, which will take wing later this year.

The Star Alliance member has been steadily edging away from a commitment to business class on its new trans-Tasman fleet, which will replace the current A320 single-aisle jets which mainly fly its Australia-New Zealand routes.

From tip to tail the A320neo and A321neo jets will be fitted with a 'slimline' economy seat predictably finished in Kiwi black.


https://www.ausbt.com.au/air-new-zealan ... 21neo-jets


Looks like overall NZ is upping the number of WB services across the Tasman which of course have BP and PE on them.

Still would it have really hurt to have 8 business (basically the new PE seats) seats on the A321 in place of 18 economy seats?
Sure you lose capacity by 55% in that section but when you can charge 3x the price of economy you end up 25% better revenue overall.
Even if you only charge 2.5x more than economy you still come out ahead by 10%.


Your math there is dependent on NZ filling all the business class seats, which, as was stated when they announced the removal of J from the A320s, was very much not the case

"The major reason for the change is that ANZ is seeing a significant drop in business-class travellers out of Wellington and Christchurch to the point where just one of the eight seats is being sold on average per flight"

http://www.airlinetrends.com/2010/03/24 ... ebundling/
 
User avatar
Zkpilot
Posts: 3863
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:21 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2017

Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:03 am

A330NZ wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
ZKOJH wrote:
more information on NZ's choice of no J class on new A321's - but we knew it lol

Air New Zealand has chosen to go the all-economy route for its new Airbus A321neo and A320neo jets, which will take wing later this year.

The Star Alliance member has been steadily edging away from a commitment to business class on its new trans-Tasman fleet, which will replace the current A320 single-aisle jets which mainly fly its Australia-New Zealand routes.

From tip to tail the A320neo and A321neo jets will be fitted with a 'slimline' economy seat predictably finished in Kiwi black.


https://www.ausbt.com.au/air-new-zealan ... 21neo-jets


Looks like overall NZ is upping the number of WB services across the Tasman which of course have BP and PE on them.

Still would it have really hurt to have 8 business (basically the new PE seats) seats on the A321 in place of 18 economy seats?
Sure you lose capacity by 55% in that section but when you can charge 3x the price of economy you end up 25% better revenue overall.
Even if you only charge 2.5x more than economy you still come out ahead by 10%.


Your math there is dependent on NZ filling all the business class seats, which, as was stated when they announced the removal of J from the A320s, was very much not the case

"The major reason for the change is that ANZ is seeing a significant drop in business-class travellers out of Wellington and Christchurch to the point where just one of the eight seats is being sold on average per flight"

http://www.airlinetrends.com/2010/03/24 ... ebundling/

That was then, this is now.
GFC budgets were being cut left right and centre.
Prices for flights have also fallen so that it is now relatively cheaper to travel in business class than it was previously (same goes for economy).
NZ is also doing more hubbing through AKL to Nth America and now Sth America. While the main connecting flights are typically on WB aircraft this isn't always the case.
Worst case scenario they don't sell the seat - some Gold/Gold Elite/Koru member gets put there and thinks highly of NZ as a result.
57 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
 
aerohottie
Posts: 727
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 3:52 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2017

Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:21 am

A330NZ wrote:
Zkpilot wrote:
ZKOJH wrote:
more information on NZ's choice of no J class on new A321's - but we knew it lol

Air New Zealand has chosen to go the all-economy route for its new Airbus A321neo and A320neo jets, which will take wing later this year.

The Star Alliance member has been steadily edging away from a commitment to business class on its new trans-Tasman fleet, which will replace the current A320 single-aisle jets which mainly fly its Australia-New Zealand routes.

From tip to tail the A320neo and A321neo jets will be fitted with a 'slimline' economy seat predictably finished in Kiwi black.


https://www.ausbt.com.au/air-new-zealan ... 21neo-jets


Looks like overall NZ is upping the number of WB services across the Tasman which of course have BP and PE on them.

Still would it have really hurt to have 8 business (basically the new PE seats) seats on the A321 in place of 18 economy seats?
Sure you lose capacity by 55% in that section but when you can charge 3x the price of economy you end up 25% better revenue overall.
Even if you only charge 2.5x more than economy you still come out ahead by 10%.


Your math there is dependent on NZ filling all the business class seats, which, as was stated when they announced the removal of J from the A320s, was very much not the case

"The major reason for the change is that ANZ is seeing a significant drop in business-class travellers out of Wellington and Christchurch to the point where just one of the eight seats is being sold on average per flight"

http://www.airlinetrends.com/2010/03/24 ... ebundling/

Although that may have been the case then (circa 2003?), it certainly isn't my experience flying QF to SYD and MEL, and VA to BNE over the past few years. On these routes I am forced to fly with QF and VA to get a business class product. For this reason I have moved my frequent flier membership to QF and VA, and for that reason NZ also miss out on my other flight choices.
My point is that it isn't just the direct revenue that NZ may get on the tasman, but also the missed revenue across their broader network.
I really now only fly NZ if I can get a cheap domestic fare, and thats about it. I now fly AA,VA or QF to North America. SQ, QF, EK or CX to Asia. And EK or EY to Europe
What?
 
downdata
Posts: 209
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 2:38 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2017

Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:15 am

Maybe that's what they are going for when they started charging fees for food/water/entertainment...etc. NZ is basically Jetstar +
 
User avatar
LamboAston
Posts: 317
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:46 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2017

Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:23 am

downdata wrote:
Maybe that's what they are going for when they started charging fees for food/water/entertainment...etc. NZ is basically Jetstar +

As is BA, and the US3.
AS350, B733/4/7/8, B744/8, B762/3, B77E/L/W, B789, A319, A320, A321, A332, A346, A380, AT73/5/6, Q300, Q400, CR2/7, E190, S340, B1900C/D
NZ, EK, QF, SQ, UA, US, CO, FZ, FR, U2, BA, VA, VS, MH, EI, EY, LH, EN, NM, TG
 
downdata
Posts: 209
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 2:38 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2017

Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:32 am

LamboAston wrote:
downdata wrote:
Maybe that's what they are going for when they started charging fees for food/water/entertainment...etc. NZ is basically Jetstar +

As is BA, and the US3.


But not QF, VA, ME3 whom they actually compete with...
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 5211
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2017

Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:32 am

PA515 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
they just ordered another 789 for a late 2018 delivery which while not announced will likely be a premium bird giving 4 premium to cover 2 long haul routes each daily for peak season

Are you saying Air NZ will receive three 789s in 2018? There was an order for two in Dec 2014, one of which is for 2018 delivery, and the recently announced ALC lease for one. That would be a fleet total of thirteen (9 original config + 4 premium).

PA515


Not sure, but it's 2 this year 2017 but FY 2017/18 and 2 in FY 2018/19 , at least that's how I read it. That will give them 13 currently 9.
 
aerohottie
Posts: 727
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 3:52 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2017

Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:22 am

An AFR article mentioned in the Australian Aviation thread discussed the viability of a direct SYD-LHR route with the A359ULR.
The article quotes Alan Joyce stating that the A359ULR now has a 9,700nm range, 1,000nm more than was announced when Singapore Airlines ordered the aircraft. They also state that SYD-LHR is a distance of 9,200nm, but the aircraft would need 9,600nm capability to counter headwinds.

Thinking about AKL-LHR at 9,900nm, but with tailwinds in each direction. Would or could the A359ULR make this route viable... presumably with 9,500nm range taking tailwinds into account?

Your thoughts?
What?
 
ANZDC10
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2016 1:58 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2017

Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:34 am

Peter Burling said on Mike Hosking radio this morning, that the Emirates Team New Zealand AC boat will be leaving AKL for LAX and Bermuda this Sunday night via 747. Not sure if he said it was an Emirates aircraft or not.
 
User avatar
LamboAston
Posts: 317
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:46 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2017

Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:35 am

aerohottie wrote:
An AFR article mentioned in the Australian Aviation thread discussed the viability of a direct SYD-LHR route with the A359ULR.
The article quotes Alan Joyce stating that the A359ULR now has a 9,700nm range, 1,000nm more than was announced when Singapore Airlines ordered the aircraft. They also state that SYD-LHR is a distance of 9,200nm, but the aircraft would need 9,600nm capability to counter headwinds.

Thinking about AKL-LHR at 9,900nm, but with tailwinds in each direction. Would or could the A359ULR make this route viable... presumably with 9,500nm range taking tailwinds into account?

Your thoughts?

How soon can they order the 359LR? Also, in the Aussie thread, they said 9,600nm, not 9,700nm.
AS350, B733/4/7/8, B744/8, B762/3, B77E/L/W, B789, A319, A320, A321, A332, A346, A380, AT73/5/6, Q300, Q400, CR2/7, E190, S340, B1900C/D
NZ, EK, QF, SQ, UA, US, CO, FZ, FR, U2, BA, VA, VS, MH, EI, EY, LH, EN, NM, TG
 
PA515
Posts: 1009
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:17 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2017

Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:49 am

aerohottie wrote:
An AFR article mentioned in the Australian Aviation thread discussed the viability of a direct SYD-LHR route with the A359ULR.
The article quotes Alan Joyce stating that the A359ULR now has a 9,700nm range, 1,000nm more than was announced when Singapore Airlines ordered the aircraft. They also state that SYD-LHR is a distance of 9,200nm, but the aircraft would need 9,600nm capability to counter headwinds.

Thinking about AKL-LHR at 9,900nm, but with tailwinds in each direction. Would or could the A359ULR make this route viable... presumably with 9,500nm range taking tailwinds into account?

Your thoughts?


Could be the same article in 'theGuardian' which is sourced from Reuters.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ays-qantas

PA515
 
User avatar
aerorobnz
Posts: 7724
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 3:43 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2017

Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:04 am

There is no surprise with the A321s. I am on my way back from Europe where SN/LX/TP/A3 all have Y class conversion seats on flights of a similar length (eg: MAD-ATH 3h15min). I don't get the outrage here, it's an all Y cabin except when they sell a fare, I also don't get why anyone would actually pay for shorthaul business class anyway.. It's a total waste of money on QF/VA because it's a rubbish seat pitch, and it's a waste on EK/NZ because the product is a freaking lie flat bed for a flight of 2.5h-3.5h.

I would suggest if you had the European business class convertors you'd be better able to offer if you happened to get the first 10-12 rows for business class, or 1 row in the case I had earlier in the week. I'd question why fly an airline like VA in J at all. They as an airline have shown themselves to be chronically dim-witted and slow to fix some fairly basic and obvious flaws in their business model. QF is a different case. They are a profitable business, but they do not even offer widebodies trans tasman except seasonal peak and PER, VA in domestic business have lost market share.

I fly all sorts of airlines, and the more I fly, the more I see there is actually little wrong with NZ's product to the market.
Flown to 126 Airports in 47 Countries on 80 Operators. Visited 56 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
User avatar
Zkpilot
Posts: 3863
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:21 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2017

Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:31 am

aerorobnz wrote:
There is no surprise with the A321s. I am on my way back from Europe where SN/LX/TP/A3 all have Y class conversion seats on flights of a similar length (eg: MAD-ATH 3h15min). I don't get the outrage here, it's an all Y cabin except when they sell a fare, I also don't get why anyone would actually pay for shorthaul business class anyway.. It's a total waste of money on QF/VA because it's a rubbish seat pitch, and it's a waste on EK/NZ because the product is a freaking lie flat bed for a flight of 2.5h-3.5h.

I would suggest if you had the European business class convertors you'd be better able to offer if you happened to get the first 10-12 rows for business class, or 1 row in the case I had earlier in the week. I'd question why fly an airline like VA in J at all. They as an airline have shown themselves to be chronically dim-witted and slow to fix some fairly basic and obvious flaws in their business model. QF is a different case. They are a profitable business, but they do not even offer widebodies trans tasman except seasonal peak and PER, VA in domestic business have lost market share.

I fly all sorts of airlines, and the more I fly, the more I see there is actually little wrong with NZ's product to the market.

There are 4 main paying types in shorthaul business: 1) Actual businessmen who need space to do some work. 2) Wealthy who don't care about spending an extra $700 or so. 3) Large/tall pax who for comfort reasons need the extra space. 4) Businessmen who have it in their contract/work policy to travel in business - they might be connecting onwards on a flight without business so this is their chance for a bit of comfort.
Then of course you have the frequent flyers with points to burn or upgrades to use, not too mention airline staff that can and do pay extra to fly in business where available.
57 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
 
zkncj
Posts: 2244
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2017

Fri Apr 07, 2017 5:41 am

Zkpilot wrote:
There are 4 main paying types in shorthaul business: 1) Actual businessmen who need space to do some work.


I've worked done work on an NZ A320 in Y plenty of times, its not that hard and if you're an frequent flyer you have access to Space+


Zkpilot wrote:
4) Businessmen who have it in their contract/work policy to travel in business - they might be connecting onwards on a flight without business so this is their chance for a bit of comfort.


Very little companies in New Zealand, will allow you to fly an 3hour Tasman flight in J apart from an select few its the bare basics. If anything Seat Only fares have become the norm for some companies on the Tasman, if you have Lounge access you don't really need an onboard meal.


Zkpilot wrote:
Then of course you have the frequent flyers with points to burn or upgrades to use, not too mention airline staff that can and do pay extra to fly in business where available.


None of theses are profitable...
 
zkncj
Posts: 2244
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2017

Fri Apr 07, 2017 5:42 am

Anyone else noticed that the airfares ex-AKL in the recent weeks have gone crazy low? surely there must be some of the players in the market hurting?

Having recently seen Qantas do AKL-China return for $500, makes you wonder how there AKL feed must be going?
 
downdata
Posts: 209
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 2:38 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2017

Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:01 am

zkncj wrote:
Anyone else noticed that the airfares ex-AKL in the recent weeks have gone crazy low? surely there must be some of the players in the market hurting?

Having recently seen Qantas do AKL-China return for $500, makes you wonder how there AKL feed must be going?


Qantas recently had SYD-PEK for $350 on sale
 
zkncj
Posts: 2244
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2017

Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:04 am

What is up with VH-VOR? seems to be doing allot of flying ex-AKL currently. This had been transfered to TT and configured in al Y for TT services.

Now that is seems to be attached to AKL, have they returned the J seats? or is there some unlucky J passengers.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 5211
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2017

Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:12 am

zkncj wrote:
What is up with VH-VOR? seems to be doing allot of flying ex-AKL currently. This had been transfered to TT and configured in al Y for TT services.

Now that is seems to be attached to AKL, have they returned the J seats? or is there some unlucky J passengers.


According to The VA source it has 8J 168Y. It could do with some colour.
 
zkeoj
Posts: 1039
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 3:00 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2017

Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:15 pm

Hi Guys

I have an Airpoints question: If I reach Gold, let's say 2 months before the end of the previous period, do the points earned in the 2 months count towards the following period already, or solely toward Elite status? Hard to put in words, so here is the example:

End of current Gold period is 31 May 17
Reaching Gold already in March 17, valid until May 18
Are status points earned in April 17 counting towards the Gold status 18/19, or just towards elite?

Cheers
micha
 
Nouflyer
Posts: 301
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2014 9:38 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2017

Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:49 pm

The issue with the all-economy A321 is primarily for long-haul connecting Business Class and Premium Economy traffic.

I recently purchased BNE-HNL Business Class return tickets. The outbound journey connects on widebody aircraft but the inbound connects to an A320, so I get Works Deluxe instead of Business.

The transition from 8J/144Y to 168Y can only make sense if more than a 86% load replaces an empty Business cabin, or 88.5% load replaces 1 sold Business seat, or 91% replaces 2 sold Business seats or 93.5% replaces 3 sold Business seats or 96% load replaces 4 sold Business seats or 98.5% load replaces 5 sold Business seats.

But no A320 all-Economy loading can earn as much revenue as selling 6, 7 or 8 Business seats.

If the problem was Hamilton, Dunedin and Gold Coast then send a smaller all-Economy A320.

But all services to Adelaide, Brisbane, Melbourne and Sydney from Auckland should be at least two Class services.
 
zkncj
Posts: 2244
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2017

Sun Apr 09, 2017 1:15 am

Nouflyer wrote:
But all services to Adelaide, Brisbane, Melbourne and Sydney from Auckland should be at least two Class services.


Most peak-hour / connecting services between AKL-SYD,BNE,MEL are now operated by the 787/777s, also AKL-ADL is being changed to an 787 in a few months time.

BNE-AKL NZ136 Daily 77W
SYD-AKL NZ104 Daily 772/789
MEL-AKL NZ124 Daily 77W

All of these connect to most North American services
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 5211
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2017

Sun Apr 09, 2017 1:33 am

The thing is you can't have it both ways, some flights connect well in both directions like SYD/BNE/MEL which are all widebodies on those services, that SYD flight used to often be an A320 which it rarely is now. So things have got better and with the 763's gone now you won't get subbed to one of them. LAX/SFO/YVR/EZE connect to these flights plus ADL, PER only for 6 months of the year has connections to these a few days a week.

IAH is a 1600 departure in winter meaning the only widebody connection is usually a 789 off NZ102 from SYD while MEL has a daily A320 at 1415 arriving and BNE has an A320 a few days a week at 1320, there is OOL aswell 5/7 weekly at 1445.

HNL has only connected in 1 direction for years, used to be the morning arrival into AKL, but the evening departure connects from all of OZ and the now afternoon arrival is better than the morning departure was for connections, you can get to SYD/MEL most days and BNE/PER a few days.

CNS and ADL are longer sector times and can be a bit of a squeeze at times particularly at one end of the day, as there isn't the demand for more than current daily flight, or in CNS case it is no longer year round.

I say this regularly but it will be interesting to see as the hub grows weather the AKL departures are split with IAH/EZE and maybe YVR and in future ORD are brought foward to 1700/1800 departures ex AKL which is will free up gate space for later if so. Or weather they decide the ADL/PER/CNS connections are important and they leave it as is.
 
ZKOJH
Posts: 1481
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:51 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2017

Sun Apr 09, 2017 4:31 am

*BREAKING NEWS*

NZ Plane making emergency landing in Palmerston North

A plane is due to make an emergency landing after being diverted to Palmerston North.  A fire service spokesman said the issue was with the plane's landing gear, which has been deemed 'unsafe'.  The plane will attempted to land around 4:30pm. 

Seventy one people are believed to be on board the flight, which was due to head from Auckland to Nelson. Flight radar has shown an Air New Zealand plane circling over Auckland airport. 

http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zeala ... north.html

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/artic ... d=11835086

Fire Service shift manager Mike Wanoa said emergency services are on site in case the heavy aircraft does have problems when landing.
Vietnam time..
 
User avatar
LamboAston
Posts: 317
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:46 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2017

Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:06 am

ZKOJH wrote:
*BREAKING NEWS*

NZ Plane making emergency landing in Palmerston North

A plane is due to make an emergency landing after being diverted to Palmerston North.  A fire service spokesman said the issue was with the plane's landing gear, which has been deemed 'unsafe'.  The plane will attempted to land around 4:30pm. 

Seventy one people are believed to be on board the flight, which was due to head from Auckland to Nelson. Flight radar has shown an Air New Zealand plane circling over Auckland airport. 

http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zeala ... north.html

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/artic ... d=11835086

Fire Service shift manager Mike Wanoa said emergency services are on site in case the heavy aircraft does have problems when landing.

Down safely. No incident.
AS350, B733/4/7/8, B744/8, B762/3, B77E/L/W, B789, A319, A320, A321, A332, A346, A380, AT73/5/6, Q300, Q400, CR2/7, E190, S340, B1900C/D
NZ, EK, QF, SQ, UA, US, CO, FZ, FR, U2, BA, VA, VS, MH, EI, EY, LH, EN, NM, TG
 
ZKSUJ
Posts: 6828
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 5:15 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2017

Sun Apr 09, 2017 11:05 am

EK skycargo 744F at AKL today. Must be team NZ's cargo
 
qf789
Crew
Topic Author
Posts: 1844
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2017

Mon Apr 10, 2017 3:28 am

TG to send A359 instead of 77W to AKL in NS18

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... f-09apr17/
Forum Moderator
 
User avatar
LamboAston
Posts: 317
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:46 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2017

Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:13 am

qf789 wrote:
TG to send A359 instead of 77W to AKL in NS18

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... f-09apr17/

A downsize, but an upgrade
AS350, B733/4/7/8, B744/8, B762/3, B77E/L/W, B789, A319, A320, A321, A332, A346, A380, AT73/5/6, Q300, Q400, CR2/7, E190, S340, B1900C/D
NZ, EK, QF, SQ, UA, US, CO, FZ, FR, U2, BA, VA, VS, MH, EI, EY, LH, EN, NM, TG
 
NPL8800
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 5:00 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2017

Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:48 am

LamboAston wrote:
qf789 wrote:
TG to send A359 instead of 77W to AKL in NS18

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... f-09apr17/

A downsize, but an upgrade


A pretty modest downsize in the scheme of things, only losing 27 seats per flight
 
User avatar
LamboAston
Posts: 317
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:46 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2017

Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:37 am

Why is there a 789 going from AKL to CHC on flight NZ162D? ZK-NZD
AS350, B733/4/7/8, B744/8, B762/3, B77E/L/W, B789, A319, A320, A321, A332, A346, A380, AT73/5/6, Q300, Q400, CR2/7, E190, S340, B1900C/D
NZ, EK, QF, SQ, UA, US, CO, FZ, FR, U2, BA, VA, VS, MH, EI, EY, LH, EN, NM, TG
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 5211
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2017

Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:54 am

LamboAston wrote:
Why is there a 789 going from AKL to CHC on flight NZ162D? ZK-NZD


PER-CHC service diverted to AKL due fog at CHC SQ297 also diverted.
NPL8800 wrote:


LamboAston wrote:
qf789 wrote:
TG to send A359 instead of 77W to AKL in NS18

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... f-09apr17/

A downsize, but an upgrade


A pretty modest downsize in the scheme of things, only losing 27 seats per flight


Long way off yet TG like to keep you guessing as to what they will use, 77W due to start on SEP 1st, I'm surprised they havn't gone back to daily currently 5 weekly, I heard the 788 fleet will get long haul crew rests added maybe they will send them in winter and something a little bigger in summer?

77W seats 364 and the 359 is 321 I think so 43 seats.
 
NPL8800
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 5:00 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2017

Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:18 am

TG 777-300 = 364 seats
TG 777-300ER = 348 seat
TG A359 = 321 seats

Believe its the 300ER that is going to be serving AKL from later in the year
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 5211
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2017

Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:36 am

NPL8800 wrote:
TG 777-300 = 364 seats
TG 777-300ER = 348 seat
TG A359 = 321 seats

Believe its the 300ER that is going to be serving AKL from later in the year



You are right. I Thought they had the same as the 773 for some reason. Defiantly the 300ER scheduled for AKL but the problem is that the 300 can make it and TG are notorious for last minute changes. The 300 has subbed for the 200ER a few times but not recently.
 
NPL8800
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 5:00 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2017

Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:39 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
NPL8800 wrote:
TG 777-300 = 364 seats
TG 777-300ER = 348 seat
TG A359 = 321 seats

Believe its the 300ER that is going to be serving AKL from later in the year



You are right. I Thought they had the same as the 773 for some reason. Defiantly the 300ER scheduled for AKL but the problem is that the 300 can make it and TG are notorious for last minute changes. The 300 has subbed for the 200ER a few times but not recently.


Yeah will definitely be interesting to see how they go with fleet consistency, MEL comes to mind as an airport recently that has had rather inconsistent fleet ops, though I'm sure there's always a myriad of factors in play when changes do occur, with not all of them necessarily being within the airlines control
 
User avatar
Zkpilot
Posts: 3863
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:21 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2017

Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:50 am

I made a comment yesterday in the Oz thread about how QFs fleet will basically look like NZ's soon most likely.
QF is seriously talking about East Coast-LHR direct and SYD-JFK direct. The only aircraft that can do this in standard config will be the 778 and A359ER. However QF have also said they want 300 pax onboard in a 3 class config (Business/PremiumY/Y). This might be hard to do with the 778 and isn't possible in the A359. There is talk that they might abuse a 779 by blocking off seats/fitting a slightly more spacious economy section (take out a few rows). So QF would end up with about 24x 779, however many 789/78X for their long haul fleet. They would also be converting their A380 options into A320/A321 for their short haul ops with some 787 in the mix (or MoM) for certain routes.
In other words pretty much what NZ has.
I feel like maybe NZ won't mix and match 778/9 so will just pick one. Since the 778 isn't much bigger than the 789/X I think that NZ will also go down the 779 route since it offers the best CASM (even if being abused). So will they look to NY?
In this case I could see them also getting the 78X as it will by then be capable of doing AKL-LAX/SFO/TYO/SIN/HKG at a better CASM (LAX would still stay 777 though for NZ1&5 at least).
Sunrise valley, any idea how a 779 would go out of DEN on a summers evening?
57 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
 
zkncj
Posts: 2244
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2017

Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:38 am

qf789 wrote:
TG to send A359 instead of 77W to AKL in NS18

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... f-09apr17/


In the last 10 years anyone know how many times TG has swapped the aircraft on AKL-BKK?

From what I can remember we've seen in recent years MD11, 744, 346, 772, 77W did the 343 every make it to AKL?
 
QF46
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:09 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2017

Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:25 am

Re the above 778/779 discussion, around when would we expect to see NZ place such an order? When will the 772 be up for retirement?
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 5211
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2017

Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:06 am

zkncj wrote:
qf789 wrote:
TG to send A359 instead of 77W to AKL in NS18

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... f-09apr17/


In the last 10 years anyone know how many times TG has swapped the aircraft on AKL-BKK?

From what I can remember we've seen in recent years MD11, 744, 346, 772, 77W did the 343 every make it to AKL?



You would need to go back further, the 772 has been here since March 2008 unchanged bar the odd 773 sub, 346 was October 2005-March 2008, MD11 started the non stop for the first few months July October 2005. Before that it was trans Tasman daily 744/743 via SYD with a 3 weekly service via BNE also from 2002/05 with MD11's, 744's and 773's were all used atleast seasonally, they were going to make it daily but didn't once EK entered. TG never had 343's, but their 345's subbed a few times for 346's. They also flew DC10's and 742's in the 1980's early 90's. This will be the first time the 77W has been but as I say the 773 flew via SYD/BNE and the odd 772 sub.

QF46 wrote:
Re the above 778/779 discussion, around when would we expect to see NZ place such an order? When will the 772 be up for retirement?


The 772 looks to be in the fleet for the next 5/6 years, the oldest is only 11.5 years and youngest 10.3. I would say NZ will add additional 789's in the short term if they need more aircraft. It would seem that they won't need any replacements for a while yet. As to 77X, it's a big expensive machine yes it's efficient but NZ will keep an eye on 78X IMO and lean towards that if Boeing can ER it a bit. In the A350 thread I was told NZ would look at A350 which they will but I just can't see them going that route even if it looks a good fit. Heck they could add a third 789 config down the line with say 35J 35W 170Y and use it to LAX/SFO, smaller but use UA to backfill or a mix of 275 seat and 240 seat 789's to balance capacity.

The 78X would be a good fit for Asia but 2 daily with 789's is probably more important imo on trunk routes to connect to EZE.

Re QF I agree but the 778 seems to make sense if it can carry 280 odd SYD-LHR, I'm not s
 
777ER
Crew
Posts: 9908
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:04 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2017

Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:45 pm

Zkpilot wrote:
I made a comment yesterday in the Oz thread about how QFs fleet will basically look like NZ's soon most likely.
QF is seriously talking about East Coast-LHR direct and SYD-JFK direct. The only aircraft that can do this in standard config will be the 778 and A359ER. However QF have also said they want 300 pax onboard in a 3 class config (Business/PremiumY/Y). This might be hard to do with the 778 and isn't possible in the A359. There is talk that they might abuse a 779 by blocking off seats/fitting a slightly more spacious economy section (take out a few rows). So QF would end up with about 24x 779, however many 789/78X for their long haul fleet. They would also be converting their A380 options into A320/A321 for their short haul ops with some 787 in the mix (or MoM) for certain routes.
In other words pretty much what NZ has.
I feel like maybe NZ won't mix and match 778/9 so will just pick one. Since the 778 isn't much bigger than the 789/X I think that NZ will also go down the 779 route since it offers the best CASM (even if being abused). So will they look to NY?
In this case I could see them also getting the 78X as it will by then be capable of doing AKL-LAX/SFO/TYO/SIN/HKG at a better CASM (LAX would still stay 777 though for NZ1&5 at least).
Sunrise valley, any idea how a 779 would go out of DEN on a summers evening?

Is this your own personal view or has QF announced things like A380 orders converted in A320/321? Could the A320/321 eventually make its way to Jetconnect?
Head Forum Moderator
moderators@airliners.net
Flown: 1900D,S340,Q300,AT72-5/6,DC3,CR2/7,E145,E70/90,A319/20/21,A380,F100,B717,B733/4/8/9,B742/4,B752/3,B763,B772/W,B789
With: NZ,SJ,QF,JQ,EK,VA,AA,UA,DL,FL,AC
 
sunrisevalley
Posts: 5240
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:26 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2017

Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:30 pm

Zkpilot wrote:
There is talk that they might abuse a 779 by blocking off seats


This will not work . Assuming a 9600nm ESAD westbound sector the 779 payload is about 15t or ~130 passengers. This is not going to make it I'm afraid.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos