What airports will be difficult to combine / co-locate

For example SFO - AA would want to combine there as well

Vs LAX were it naturally takes care of itself

PITflights wrote:

What airports will be difficult to combine / co-locate

For example SFO - AA would want to combine there as well

SFO doesn't seem difficult at all once T1 opens - once T1 opens, AA moves there, and Alaska moves into the current AA gates in T2.

The good news for Alaska is that the current AA space in T2 should be more than enough to accommodate pre-merger Alaska's operations (which are smaller at SFO than AA). Thus, Alaska moving out of the International Terminal and into T2 is actually going to give the combined airline room for expansion versus the constraints with which both Alaska and Virgin America currently must contend in their respective locations.

And, needless to say, on a related note - it's a similar story for AA at SFO which is operating a split operation between T1 and T2 because the entire operation can't fit into either place. Once AA moves to T1, it will be able to operate a single, unified operation. Plus, from what I remember reading here, AA - which will be T1's largest operator - is also going to get "first dibs" on prime counter, gate and facility space in the new terminal. All in all, seems like a win-win for Alaska, AA and the airport overall.

commavia wrote:

PITflights wrote:

What airports will be difficult to combine / co-locate

For example SFO - AA would want to combine there as well

SFO doesn't seem difficult at all once T1 opens - once T1 opens, AA moves there, and Alaska moves into the current AA gates in T2.

The good news for Alaska is that the current AA space in T2 should be more than enough to accommodate pre-merger Alaska's operations (which are smaller at SFO than AA). Thus, Alaska moving out of the International Terminal and into T2 is actually going to give the combined airline room for expansion versus the constraints with which both Alaska and Virgin America currently must contend in their respective locations.

And, needless to say, on a related note - it's a similar story for AA at SFO which is operating a split operation between T1 and T2 because the entire operation can't fit into either place. Once AA moves to T1, it will be able to operate a single, unified operation. Plus, from what I remember reading here, AA - which will be T1's largest operator - is also going to get "first dibs" on prime counter, gate and facility space in the new terminal. All in all, seems like a win-win for Alaska, AA and the airport overall.

Not to derail too far, but will there be any room for other carriers to expand presence at SFO after these gate shuffles?

flyby519 wrote:

Not to derail too far, but will there be any room for other carriers to expand presence at SFO after these gate shuffles?

The new T1-B will have swing gates as well as more gates than the old T1-B, they're adding an additional gate to T2-D, they're going to be reconfiguring T3-F, and I think they're looking into adding a IT-H.

SFO has added a 15th gate to T2 (50A) that opens next week which will hopefully give Alaska some temporary room to grow. It looks like the E175s might have to be bused though. VX and AS international departure will check in T2, but will bus over to IT-A.

At the end of the day, AA will stay in T2 and AS/VX will move to the new T1B where the will have more room to expand and a proper lounge can be built for them.

What about lounge space? I'd imagine the Alaska lounge will get busy at LAX once the Loft closes at 3. Will AS take over the current Admirals Club at SFO? It's one of the nicer ones in the US...

Regarding AAG's focus city, San Diego, I have recently heard that AAG and their Virgin unit will be moving next year from their current homes (respectively, T1W and T2W) to a consolidated location in T2E. Exact placement of their ticket counters and gates is unknown at this time. This move will of course place AAG right along side their partners, AA.

Keep in mind, this is closely related to the rebuilding and relocation of SAN's FIS facilities to T2W in a fast, major project to be completed by summer of 2018. There will be a lot of relocations for many of the cx at Lindbergh Field.

AAG is currently limited to 7 gates in T1W at SAN and at the rate of growth here last year, this year, and, IMO, next year, will soon be experiencing gate gridlock. And that does not include Virgin's ops. I can only assume that after the move to T2E, AAG will have access to more gates. (And a common lounge in that terminal as well!)

bb

SANFan wrote:

Regarding AAG's focus city, San Diego, I have recently heard that AAG and their Virgin unit will be moving next year from their current homes (respectively, T1W and T2W) to a consolidated location in T2E. Exact placement of their ticket counters and gates is unknown at this time. This move will of course place AAG right along side their partners, AA.

SANFan wrote:

AAG is currently limited to 7 gates in T1W at SAN and at the rate of growth here last year, this year, and, IMO, next year, will soon be experiencing gate gridlock. And that does not include Virgin's ops. I can only assume that after the move to T2E, AAG will have access to more gates. (And a common lounge in that terminal as well!)

Admittedly, it's been a few years since I've flown into SAN on AA - so forgive the question - but is T2E big enough for the combined operations of post-merger AA and post-merger Alaska? It seems like those two schedules combined would be too much for 11 gates in T2E (plus maybe partial use of the 2 CUTE FIS gates). On the other hand, that could explain why Alaska didn't announce a lounge at SAN - presuming the existing reciprocal AA/Alaska lounge access deal applied, Alaska members would then presumably have access to the Airspace Lounge/Admirals Club there.

SonaSounds wrote:

At the end of the day, AA will stay in T2 and AS/VX will move to the new T1B where the will have more room to expand and a proper lounge can be built for them.

IIRC part of getting AA to move from T3-E to T2-D in the first place was giving them first/best dibs in T1B.

What about there slots at JFK will they be at terminal 4 or 8?

anonms wrote:

IIRC part of getting AA to move from T3-E to T2-D in the first place was giving them first/best dibs in T1B.

My understanding as well. AA moving to T2 - finalized long before the USAirways merger - was always supposed to be a "temporary" solution. The long-term plan for years has been for AA to ultimately move to T1 once it's rebuilt. In the intervening period, of course, both of T2's operators merged with other airlines, so now it just so happens to work out perfectly that once T1 is finally open, both carriers will be able to consolidated their enlarged operations into excellent spaces. I believe the ultimate goal is - roughly - AA, Southwest and the smaller domestic operators at T1-B, Delta in T1-C, Alaska in T2, United in T3-E/F, and international carriers in A/G.

Darklord1 wrote:

What about there slots at JFK will they be at terminal 4 or 8?

Interesting question. Assuming AA and Alaska were both interesting in consolidating Alaska in T8 to begin with, I wonder if T8 would even have enough room for the combined Alaska operation at all? Not sure, but maybe - especially since over 2/3 of Alaska's JFK schedule departures before 1400, and thus outside the peak afternoon/evening hours when T8 gates are in most high demand.

anonms wrote:

SonaSounds wrote:

At the end of the day, AA will stay in T2 and AS/VX will move to the new T1B where the will have more room to expand and a proper lounge can be built for them.

IIRC part of getting AA to move from T3-E to T2-D in the first place was giving them first/best dibs in T1B.

commavia wrote:

anonms wrote:

IIRC part of getting AA to move from T3-E to T2-D in the first place was giving them first/best dibs in T1B.

My understanding as well. AA moving to T2 - finalized long before the USAirways merger - was always supposed to be a "temporary" solution. The long-term plan for years has been for AA to ultimately move to T1 once it's rebuilt. In the intervening period, of course, both of T2's operators merged with other airlines, so now it just so happens to work out perfectly that once T1 is finally open, both carriers will be able to consolidated their enlarged operations into excellent spaces. I believe the ultimate goal is - roughly - AA, Southwest and the smaller domestic operators at T1-B, Delta in T1-C, Alaska in T2, United in T3-E/F, and international carriers in A/G.

Darklord1 wrote:

What about there slots at JFK will they be at terminal 4 or 8?

Interesting question. Assuming AA and Alaska were both interesting in consolidating Alaska in T8 to begin with, I wonder if T8 would even have enough room for the combined Alaska operation at all? Not sure, but maybe - especially since over 2/3 of Alaska's JFK schedule departures before 1400, and thus outside the peak afternoon/evening hours when T8 gates are in most high demand.

That was the case, but when AS first announced the purchase of VX and the AS executive team came down to SFO, they decided they would rather move into T1B after the remodel. AA dug in their heals to a move now that VX will relocate. UA will eventually get a gate or two in T2 after the T2/T3E connector opens. AA will share the rest of the terminal with UA and vacate T1C. AS/VX want T1B as this will have 8 extra gates that both them and B6 want to use for expansion.

flyby519 wrote:

Not to derail too far, but will there be any room for other carriers to expand presence at SFO after these gate shuffles?

I'd heard there will be some. I would not be surprised to see B6 ramp up service at SFO if they had better add'l gate space. They're clearly interested based on their run at VX. I'm not sure how DL is doing with their current gate utilization, but I imagine they'd be open to more flights. Big question longer term will be about the arrival/departure capacity at SFO and whether the FAA moves closer to slot controls.

SFOtoORD wrote:

flyby519 wrote:

Not to derail too far, but will there be any room for other carriers to expand presence at SFO after these gate shuffles?

I'd heard there will be some. I would not be surprised to see B6 ramp up service at SFO if they had better add'l gate space. They're clearly interested based on their run at VX. I'm not sure how DL is doing with their current gate utilization, but I imagine they'd be open to more flights. Big question longer term will be about the arrival/departure capacity at SFO and whether the FAA moves closer to slot controls.

Out east the FAA seems to be going the opposite direction in regards to slot controls. EWR recently dropped, and JFK possibly after the runway construction is complete in 2018.

commavia wrote:

Admittedly, it's been a few years since I've flown into SAN on AA - so forgive the question - but is T2E big enough for the combined operations of post-merger AA and post-merger Alaska? It seems like those two schedules combined would be too much for 11 gates in T2E (plus maybe partial use of the 2 CUTE FIS gates). On the other hand, that could explain why Alaska didn't announce a lounge at SAN - presuming the existing reciprocal AA/Alaska lounge access deal applied, Alaska members would then presumably have access to the Airspace Lounge/Admirals Club there.

Good questions. T2E should actually have at least 13 (domestic) gates -- 20 thru 32 -- in its post-FIS configuration. (It's conceivable that they could even add a gate as 20 had to be able to handle a 747; if there are no big wide-bodies expected from either AA or AS, then maybe SDIA would add gate 19 into the gate population of 2East.) G4 is also currently in T2E but they have a pretty negligible presence. Of course the int'l flags -- WS, BA, and JL would move to the west end of T2W,

Therefore, I imagine all gates will be CUTE so AA & AAG should pretty much have the run of those 13 (or 14?) gates. And, even though I can't believe I'm reporting this, by the end of 2017, it looks like AAG will have about 25% more departures at SAN than AA! (AAG with ~40 flts, AA with ~30 flights.) I could see by the end of 2018, AAG perhaps using ~8-9 gates and AA using 5-6 of them.

I also agree about the lounge situation. I just posted the other day somewhere that I now understood why perhaps AAG never built a Board Room lounge in T1W. And who knows, maybe AAG would still go ahead and build a Board Room somewhere in T2E... Otherwise, at least AS-flyers would have access to A lounge of some kind.

bb

flyby519 wrote:

SFOtoORD wrote:

flyby519 wrote:

Not to derail too far, but will there be any room for other carriers to expand presence at SFO after these gate shuffles?

I'd heard there will be some. I would not be surprised to see B6 ramp up service at SFO if they had better add'l gate space. They're clearly interested based on their run at VX. I'm not sure how DL is doing with their current gate utilization, but I imagine they'd be open to more flights. Big question longer term will be about the arrival/departure capacity at SFO and whether the FAA moves closer to slot controls.

Out east the FAA seems to be going the opposite direction in regards to slot controls. EWR recently dropped, and JFK possibly after the runway construction is complete in 2018.

Which is crazy because EWR still seems like the most delayed s*%thole on the face of the earth.