N353SK wrote:

As US airlines hire pilots onto a seniority list and not a certain fleet, junior pilots generally start on a narrowbody and then move to a wide body when seniority permits. Any experience will be eventually valuable to them, because US Legacies hire a pilot for the rest of his career and not some contracted period. Delta hires pilots with 1,500 hours and also hires pilots with 20,000 hours, and they hire plenty of pilots with widebody experience from airlines such as Atlas. My point is that there is no such thing as "overqualified" for a US Legacy because it's the job that every US pilot wants, and because attrition at US Legacies is near zero.

OK, if this is a common practice then I stand corrected.

PatrickZ80 wrote:

Here is an article (in Dutch) about a well respected Dutch pilot and columnist for that website switching from Emirates to Norwegian.

http://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/c ... -norwegian

He'll be based in Fort Lauderdale flying a 787. Has flown for Air Holland, DHL and Emirates in the past and now Norwegian. The article says he's looking forward to it.

And see how his career has progressed. First company went belly up, second was night freight (which frankly is the least CHOSEN pilot career), then the sandpit which eventually wears most out.
And now boarding Bjorn Kjos's slave ship.

Great, or what?

VS11 wrote:

I don't understand what you are trying to say. My position is that in most cases an EK 777/380 Captain would be overqualified to be a DL 737/A320 First Officer and would not be considered for the job. Such cases probably do happen but I don't think that's a standard practice.

Do you not understand or do you not want to understand? There is nothing inherently over-qualifying about flying a widebody. Pilots at the ACMI freight companies go on to the US3 regularly to take positions flying narrowbodies. There is nothing unusual about that in the US. In the business aviation world being typed on the airplane you're being hired to fly is a big deal. The same is true when looking for contract work as an expat pilot. It is simply not an issue in the US when looking for work as pilot employed by a unionized carrier. I've spent my last 11 years working my way up the ladder in this country as an airline pilot. I've been to the job fairs, I've talked to the recruiters, I've spent countless hours talking to friends doing the same thing and dissected the minutiae of your job hunts, and I've gotten the (hopefully) last job I'll ever need. I have a working understanding of how pilot recruitment and hiring works in this country. If you want to argue why you think it SHOULD be different, that's fine, have at it, but facing a chorus of experts, turning around, and choosing to bury your head in the sand doesn't "[win] your argument".

doug_or wrote:

VS11 wrote:

I don't understand what you are trying to say. My position is that in most cases an EK 777/380 Captain would be overqualified to be a DL 737/A320 First Officer and would not be considered for the job. Such cases probably do happen but I don't think that's a standard practice.

Do you not understand or do you not want to understand? There is nothing inherently over-qualifying about flying a widebody. Pilots at the ACMI freight companies go on to the US3 regularly to take positions flying narrowbodies. There is nothing unusual about that in the US. In the business aviation world being typed on the airplane you're being hired to fly is a big deal. The same is true when looking for contract work as an expat pilot. It is simply not an issue in the US when looking for work as pilot employed by a unionized carrier. I've spent my last 11 years working my way up the ladder in this country as an airline pilot. I've been to the job fairs, I've talked to the recruiters, I've spent countless hours talking to friends doing the same thing and dissected the minutiae of your job hunts, and I've gotten the (hopefully) last job I'll ever need. I have a working understanding of how pilot recruitment and hiring works in this country. If you want to argue why you think it SHOULD be different, that's fine, have at it, but facing a chorus of experts, turning around, and choosing to bury your head in the sand doesn't "[win] your argument".

As I said in my reply to N353SK: If this is a common practice then I stand corrected. Nothing unusual then for a EK 380/777 Captain to become a DL 320/737 First Officer. I learn something new every day.

mcdu wrote:

I read with interest the recent accident report of the MD80 in Africa. It mentioned the Capt was an American with a dodgy past, checkride failures to the point of not being employable in the US.

These are the people that will be joining Norwegian. Those with poor skills and personality flaws will be lining up to fly for Norwegian.

OR it will be the US pilots who also apply to the ME3, most of whom come back to the US to fly for mainline carriers. The same will apply here. Don't be so dramatic.

Yep, embarrassingly for EK, well known Captain Ashley has left the Middle East to join the bottom of UA's seniority list.

https://youtu.be/7T-ujzU6vSc

Threads like these prove why labor unions get laughed at these days. You didn't fall in line and listen to ththe glorious leaders. We are going to shun you for it!

CarbHeatIn wrote:

Yep, embarrassingly for EK, well known Captain Ashley has left the Middle East to join the bottom of UA's seniority list.

https://youtu.be/7T-ujzU6vSc

Must be a new development. She hasn't updated her twitter yet:

https://twitter.com/fashionash777?lang=en

catiii wrote:

mcdu wrote:

I read with interest the recent accident report of the MD80 in Africa. It mentioned the Capt was an American with a dodgy past, checkride failures to the point of not being employable in the US.

These are the people that will be joining Norwegian. Those with poor skills and personality flaws will be lining up to fly for Norwegian.

OR it will be the US pilots who also apply to the ME3, most of whom come back to the US to fly for mainline carriers. The same will apply here. Don't be so dramatic.

I don't think so. The ME3 have had a great safety record and have been selective over the years in their hiring. At one time EK was a very good job but I read and talk with friends that work there that the job has taken a turn for the worse; schedules, vacation, staffing etc.

Norwegian is going to comprise the worlds cast offs of pilots. Those that can't get hired anywhere else at a reputable carrier will be flying you and your family on those $89 trans Atlantic flights.

777PHX wrote:

sk736 wrote:

What a load of rubbish has been posted in this thread. Anyone who thinks an airline wouldn't hire a pilot simply because he or she has previously worked for Norwegian has completely lost the plot. Get a grip.

You have no clue what you're talking about. There are already US airlines out there that aren't looked highly upon when on a resume. Norwegian will join them.

What utter rubbish!

DiamondFlyer wrote:

sk736 wrote:

What a load of rubbish has been posted in this thread. Anyone who thinks an airline wouldn't hire a pilot simply because he or she has previously worked for Norwegian has completely lost the plot. Get a grip.

No, that's exactly what's going to happen in the US. These guys working for Norwegian are as close as you can get to being a SCAB without being one.

well then
i do feel very sorry for the american airlines and people if they are so mind closed.

sk736 wrote:

777PHX wrote:

sk736 wrote:

What a load of rubbish has been posted in this thread. Anyone who thinks an airline wouldn't hire a pilot simply because he or she has previously worked for Norwegian has completely lost the plot. Get a grip.

You have no clue what you're talking about. There are already US airlines out there that aren't looked highly upon when on a resume. Norwegian will join them.

What utter rubbish!

The man speaks the truth rather you like it or not.

airbazar wrote:

mcdu wrote:

I have no ill feelings toward someone that decides to go to Norwegian. That is a choice they can make, but to think that there won't be repercussions in the future if you desire to leave Norwegian would be short sighted. I know I certainly would not want my company to hire anyone with a background at Norwegian.

That's real classy, and then people wonder why there's no love loss towards the spoiled brats who work in the airline industry.
So you'd rather a pilot be unemployed instead of taking a job doing what he/she loves until a better opportunity comes along? That's just a great attitude to have. You must have been born with a silver spoon in your mouth.

Fresh pilots with 1500 hours are getting their doors beaten down with interview offers as soon as they fill out their airlineapps profile, so there aren't a whole lot of unemployed pilots out there. They are also getting bonuses unimaginable 5 years ago. Hence the anger from those actually flying the line. There really isn't a compelling reason for a US pilot to even apply.

Now I'm not going to call someone a scab for working there, but I won't go out of my way to help him/her get on at a major either. There's a certain amount of professional ethics amongst most pilots in the US, and taking short cuts or signing on at places that harm the overall good of the profession is frowned upon.

I'm not a hardcore Union guy but I recognize that it does a lot of good that the general public and even anet know nothing about. They arent perfect but what organization is?

To echo something someone else mentioned, I have been on this board for a long time. When I was a student pilot a decade ago I ran into a line pilot and even then he called anet "a bunch of pilot haters."

Sure we all love flying, but it is a very demanding career path that is easily derailed, often permenantly, if you mess up. The road to the dream job is very, very long, difficult, and brutally competitive.

So if the pilots here are up in arms there's probably a good reason why. That reason is Norwegian's wages and days off are abysmal for the equipment flown, and while they are small, they are a threat to the dream job most pilots want.

If Norwegian's pay was forced on me tomorrow, it would be the day I start a career change. I love flying and what I do, but it's not worth it at those wages.

VS11 wrote:

N766UA wrote:

I will briefly point out, yet again, that this thread is basically why almost no professionals actually use this board. You get line pilots telling you how it is and how they feel, and you get a bunch of armchair knowitalls telling them why they're "mindless," amongst other things.

Norwegian's practices directly affect my *career.*

If you refer to me, I said "mindless hatred" as in lacking reason. I never said pilots were mindless. I have a deep respect for pilots and generally higher expectations from them so yes I find certain attitudes coming from pilots disturbing as I expect them to have a better judgement.

I take it "having better judgement" means agreeing with you

N766UA wrote:

I will briefly point out, yet again, that this thread is basically why almost no professionals actually use this board. You get line pilots telling you how it is and how they feel, and you get a bunch of armchair knowitalls telling them why they're "mindless," amongst other things.

Norwegian's practices directly affect my *career.*

Welcome to adolescentasshatstalkingaboutairliners.net, where the 12 year old down the street knows more about your job than you do, and won't hesitate to blast you for being wrong.

Nobody in the industry takes this website seriously. It's just a bunch of children and know-nothings.

exunited wrote:

VS11 wrote:

N766UA wrote:

I will briefly point out, yet again, that this thread is basically why almost no professionals actually use this board. You get line pilots telling you how it is and how they feel, and you get a bunch of armchair knowitalls telling them why they're "mindless," amongst other things.

Norwegian's practices directly affect my *career.*

If you refer to me, I said "mindless hatred" as in lacking reason. I never said pilots were mindless. I have a deep respect for pilots and generally higher expectations from them so yes I find certain attitudes coming from pilots disturbing as I expect them to have a better judgement.

I take it "having better judgement" means agreeing with you

No, it means not getting petty because other pilots have chosen different paths from them.

Is Norwegian hiring American pilots over EU pilots for political or logistical reasons?
Do EU majors hire American pilots also?

If all the "decent pilots" in US wouldn't work for Norwegian, why would they not just hire on EU side?

ual777 wrote:

To echo something someone else mentioned, I have been on this board for a long time. When I was a student pilot a decade ago I ran into a line pilot and even then he called anet "a bunch of pilot haters."

One thing I'd like to point out. Pilots spend a heck of a lot of time locked in a very small room with one other person who typically shares their pro union views. Yes I've met some airline pilots who also own their own business's and do not share these views. But I think pilots are typically surrounded by others who share their exact views. Then they see forums like this made up of the outside views and label the community pilot haters. I think the people who are drawn to this website have a massive amount of respect for airline pilots. And a little admiration too. However, many of also shake are head at some of the typical pilot union mantra we see thrown around here. I suspect that many of these same people would never have these kind of views if they were not union airline pilots.

777PHX wrote:

Welcome to adolescentasshatstalkingaboutairliners.net, where the 12 year old down the street knows more about your job than you do, and won't hesitate to blast you for being wrong.

Nobody in the industry takes this website seriously. It's just a bunch of children and know-nothings.

Honestly, you would be surprised to the number of very high level people throughout aviation who are part of airlines.net. Not just the airline industry . For somebody who has posted over 200 times here, you obviously take it somewhat seriously.

No matter how you look at it from a professional view these pilots are a threat to the exiting professional pilots. Sort of like living a a very block and some jerk come in leave trash in the front yard, parties and noms at all hours and then sell his house for 200K below the existing market. Probably no law against it, but it sure rubs you the wrong way.

I think they are getting seven 787's this year and nine more next year, so yes they are a threat to ones professional we'll being. Listening to those without any skin in the game, only makes me think the ignorance shown is rather pathetic.

So far from this thread I have learned from the pilots:
1) Norwegian's employment scheme here will fail because no self respecting US pilot will want to work there. And if they do they are scabs and will be ostracized deliberately by US airlines forever..
2) Norwegian might succeed and all tens of thousands of US pilots are going to have their careers screwed forever.somehow, because a hundred (maybe) US pilots were hired by them.

It seems one or the other. Not both.

Keith2004 wrote:

Is Norwegian hiring American pilots over EU pilots for political or logistical reasons?
Do EU majors hire American pilots also?

If all the "decent pilots" in US wouldn't work for Norwegian, why would they not just hire on EU side?

Presumably Norwegian have already got a fairly large number of EU/EEA pilots in their employment. To hire these guys they'd have to compete with Easyjet/Ryanair as well as BA/KLM/SAS etc. Now I don't know if there is less of a pilot shortage in Europe than North America, but presumably they've found some way of hiring pilots, if their T&Cs are significantly below those at other US carriers then as in any other industry they'll struggle. I also expect some pilots will prefer fewer days off for more money and some less money for more days off, different people want different things but some posters have suggested they're worse on both which seems odd. If they don't have the US pilots by the time they launch then it's obvious they messed up. Would there be a difficulty in crewing their new TATL 737s from Edinburgh?

On the Union stuff, I don't presume to understand exactly how it works, but from the UK it does seem slightly odd that the home of capitalism has (in the sectors which are still unionised) practices which haven't been around since the 70s or early 80s here. E.g. competitive hiring based on performance and ability for Captains rather than time served promotion of FOs would be how I think a lot of non-pilots would expect things from experience elsewhere.

TVNWZ wrote:

So far from this thread I have learned from the pilots:
1) Norwegian's employment scheme here will fail because no self respecting US pilot will want to work there. And if they do they are scabs and will be ostracized deliberately by US airlines forever..
2) Norwegian might succeed and all tens of thousands of US pilots are going to have their careers screwed forever.somehow, because a hundred (maybe) US pilots were hired by them.

It seems one or the other. Not both.

It is the downward pressure that is applied to all jobs in the industry if Norwegian is successful in finding employees willing to accept their wages. It can easily be both, the pilots that sign up for Norwegian will be ostracized and the other carriers will use Norwegian wages in any negotiations that take place. They become the new low and all carriers will want to factor in those wages for new contracts.

VS11 wrote:

As I said in my reply to N353SK: If this is a common practice then I stand corrected. Nothing unusual then for a EK 380/777 Captain to become a DL 320/737 First Officer. I learn something new every day.

I hope I didn't come off as harshly as some of the other replies. The key to understanding is that in the US pilots are not hired to fly a specific type. In the US, a pilot is hired at Delta and placed on the seniority list, and then bids for fleet, base, and seat based on seniority. Occasionally new-hires can hold a seat on the 757/767 (considered a single fleet) ... I'm not sure if it's happened at Delta but it's definitely happened at United over the past few years. Obviously though, most new-hires go on the MD-88, 717, A320, 737, or E190 aircraft at the US legacies.

N353SK wrote:

VS11 wrote:

As I said in my reply to N353SK: If this is a common practice then I stand corrected. Nothing unusual then for a EK 380/777 Captain to become a DL 320/737 First Officer. I learn something new every day.

I hope I didn't come off as harshly as some of the other replies. The key to understanding is that in the US pilots are not hired to fly a specific type. In the US, a pilot is hired at Delta and placed on the seniority list, and then bids for fleet, base, and seat based on seniority. Occasionally new-hires can hold a seat on the 757/767 (considered a single fleet) ... I'm not sure if it's happened at Delta but it's definitely happened at United over the past few years. Obviously though, most new-hires go on the MD-88, 717, A320, 737, or E190 aircraft at the US legacies.

The last few classes have had new hires go to the ER at Delta, so yes it happens there too. I don't think that the 330/777/747 have gone newhires, but that's it.

BravoOne wrote:

No matter how you look at it from a professional view these pilots are a threat to the exiting professional pilots. Sort of like living a a very block and some jerk come in leave trash in the front yard, parties and noms at all hours and then sell his house for 200K below the existing market. Probably no law against it, but it sure rubs you the wrong way.

I think they are getting seven 787's this year and nine more next year, so yes they are a threat to ones professional we'll being. Listening to those without any skin in the game, only makes me think the ignorance shown is rather pathetic.

I'd like to learn two things.

1. What are the potential number of aircraft and pilots that Norwegian might fly to the United States, and what percentage would those numbers represent against the aircraft/pilots presently employed by major airlines in the USA?

2. What are the equivalent numbers for the ME3 + Turkey?

Is life really that expensive over there? I would have thought that it was about as expensive as in the EU. Few people earn that kind of money here (5-10k a month), even in Germany or Switzerland.

BravoOne wrote:

No matter how you look at it from a professional view these pilots are a threat to the exiting professional pilots. Sort of like living a a very block and some jerk come in leave trash in the front yard, parties and noms at all hours and then sell his house for 200K below the existing market. Probably no law against it, but it sure rubs you the wrong way.

I think they are getting seven 787's this year and nine more next year, so yes they are a threat to ones professional we'll being. Listening to those without any skin in the game, only makes me think the ignorance shown is rather pathetic.

US Airlines are welcome to offer their services from Norway, but history has proven that they run as soon as things become a little competitive. That has been the case both before Norwegian and after. One has to go back to the 80's, early 90's when the last time US Airlines were offering their services in a big way. This is why Norwegian has become populare in Norway, because they offer services that SAS used to have monopolyand was very Limited and bad on from Norway and US Airlines don't bother with anymore. Norwegian has so far delivered on their promise, breaking the monoply and delivering long haul options from Norway.

Boeingphan wrote:

On the flipside many of you pilots complain at length of the process it takes to get to a major. If I could be captain of a 787 in 3 years for Norwegian it sounds a helluva lot more attractive than flying an RJ from Grand Forks to Wichita and sleeping at the Hi Ho Motel for 8 years on a $40k salary, but thats just a counterpoint. In that instance Norwegian sounds a bit more attractive.

It's attitudes like this that were responsible for the regional airline mess that we're just now recovering from.

N766UA wrote:

I will briefly point out, yet again, that this thread is basically why almost no professionals actually use this board. You get line pilots telling you how it is and how they feel, and you get a bunch of armchair knowitalls telling them why they're "mindless," amongst other things.

Norwegian's practices directly affect my *career.*

Agreed. The more I work in the industry the less I come here. I keep saying that for a website supposedly comprised of aviation enthusiasts, they don't seem to care about the people who actually work to bring them the hobby they enjoy.

If a Norwegian pilot (if there was a jumpseat agreement) ever tried to ride as a jumpseater, in the cockpit or as flow-back they would promptly be told to get off the airplane. I'm not a chest-beating union guy and the whole Norwegian debacle has nothing to do with unions. Norwegian is undercutting the pilot profession and the airline business by engaging in unethical labor practices. Hopefully President Trump deals with them and protects the US airlines and pilots.

This arguement about scabs and not allowing folks to jump seat, et al., is the exact reason I chose, 30 years ago, to avoid an airline pilot job. Can you imagine sitting next to a Trump (or otherwise) supporter having to listen to his/her drivel about union/company/politics for 5 hours? I can't. Makes for s bad day at work.

Much happier flying corporate for 30 years with a small group of good guys and riding the bicycle around Hawai'i during the down time as I am doing today.

[photoid][/photoid]

spudsmac wrote:

If a Norwegian pilot (if there was a jumpseat agreement) ever tried to ride as a jumpseater, in the cockpit or as flow-back they would promptly be told to get off the airplane. I'm not a chest-beating union guy and the whole Norwegian debacle has nothing to do with unions. Norwegian is undercutting the pilot profession and the airline business by engaging in unethical labor practices. Hopefully President Trump deals with them and protects the US airlines and pilots.

Why are they so bad? Those Norwegians?.

mcdu wrote:

catiii wrote:

mcdu wrote:

I read with interest the recent accident report of the MD80 in Africa. It mentioned the Capt was an American with a dodgy past, checkride failures to the point of not being employable in the US.

These are the people that will be joining Norwegian. Those with poor skills and personality flaws will be lining up to fly for Norwegian.

OR it will be the US pilots who also apply to the ME3, most of whom come back to the US to fly for mainline carriers. The same will apply here. Don't be so dramatic.

I don't think so. The ME3 have had a great safety record and have been selective over the years in their hiring. At one time EK was a very good job but I read and talk with friends that work there that the job has taken a turn for the worse; schedules, vacation, staffing etc.

Norwegian is going to comprise the worlds cast offs of pilots. Those that can't get hired anywhere else at a reputable carrier will be flying you and your family on those $89 trans Atlantic flights.

Ah got it. So it's okay to go work for a sovereign wealth ME3 subsidized carrier that's taking advantage of various government loopholes to beat the US3's brains in, but going to work for a carrier that is taking advantage of various loopholes to compete against the US3 is not okay.

That's not inconsistent or hypocritical...

spudsmac wrote:

If a Norwegian pilot (if there was a jumpseat agreement) ever tried to ride as a jumpseater, in the cockpit or as flow-back they would promptly be told to get off the airplane. I'm not a chest-beating union guy and the whole Norwegian debacle has nothing to do with unions. Norwegian is undercutting the pilot profession and the airline business by engaging in unethical labor practices. Hopefully President Trump deals with them and protects the US airlines and pilots.

So are the ME3 carriers. You better never let one of them on your jump seat either...

catiii wrote:

mcdu wrote:

catiii wrote:

OR it will be the US pilots who also apply to the ME3, most of whom come back to the US to fly for mainline carriers. The same will apply here. Don't be so dramatic.

I don't think so. The ME3 have had a great safety record and have been selective over the years in their hiring. At one time EK was a very good job but I read and talk with friends that work there that the job has taken a turn for the worse; schedules, vacation, staffing etc.

Norwegian is going to comprise the worlds cast offs of pilots. Those that can't get hired anywhere else at a reputable carrier will be flying you and your family on those $89 trans Atlantic flights.

Ah got it. So it's okay to go work for a sovereign wealth ME3 subsidized carrier that's taking advantage of various government loopholes to beat the US3's brains in, but going to work for a carrier that is taking advantage of various loopholes to compete against the US3 is not okay.

That's not inconsistent or hypocritical...

It's not hypocritical. The wages offered by the ME3 have not creates downward pressure on US wages. If anything that is what the employees of both ME3 and the US based pilot groups is a disdain for Norwegian. I see it's in posts on prune.

mcdu wrote:

TVNWZ wrote:

So far from this thread I have learned from the pilots:
1) Norwegian's employment scheme here will fail because no self respecting US pilot will want to work there. And if they do they are scabs and will be ostracized deliberately by US airlines forever..
2) Norwegian might succeed and all tens of thousands of US pilots are going to have their careers screwed forever.somehow, because a hundred (maybe) US pilots were hired by them.

It seems one or the other. Not both.

It is the downward pressure that is applied to all jobs in the industry if Norwegian is successful in finding employees willing to accept their wages. It can easily be both, the pilots that sign up for Norwegian will be ostracized and the other carriers will use Norwegian wages in any negotiations that take place. They become the new low and all carriers will want to factor in those wages for new contracts.

Couldn't that be applied today since USA pilots are at the top internationally? Are the union negotiating teams really that bad?

TVNWZ wrote:

Couldn't that be applied today since USA pilots are at the top internationally? Are the union negotiating teams really that bad?

You will have Norwegian pilots flying 737 and 787 for less than EMB and CRJ pilots. Also with Norwegian you must pay a trailing bond. No other US carrier has such a scheme where you effectively are indebted to your employer.

Crossing the threshold to work for Norwegian is filled with negatives. Those that take the job can't say they haven't been warned. Of course they only fly Norwegian planes. They are employed by a third party crew staffing agency. Norwegian is using the staffing agency to avoid paying European benefits. That's why they hired Thai based staffing agency for the 787 originally. They want to blur the lines of ownership. Much like the crash of the Corporate Canadair that killed the TV executive in Aspen this will be a web of deceit exposed after the first crash. In that case the company providing the charter was a shell offering sub leased services by dodgy skilled pilots.

26point2 wrote:

This arguement about scabs and not allowing folks to jump seat, et al., is the exact reason I chose, 30 years ago, to avoid an airline pilot job. Can you imagine sitting next to a Trump (or otherwise) supporter having to listen to his/her drivel about union/company/politics for 5 hours? I can't. Makes for s bad day at work.

Much happier flying corporate for 30 years with a small group of good guys and riding the bicycle around Hawai'i during the down time as I am doing today.

No actually your on the computer trolling the web while waiting for the big man to tell what his plans are next/

Certain People on this forum seems to have a probelm With Norwegian using OSM aviation for their staffing, training etc. But OSM aviation alos deliver these services to other Airlines too, such as Finnair, Turkish Airlines, Sun Express, Tui Fly Nordic. Do you have the same problem with these ?

Look at all these union big shots arguing amongst themselves!

All this talk of "scabs" and such...

Mortyman wrote:

Certain People on this forum seems to have a probelm With Norwegian using OSM aviation for their staffing, training etc. But OSM aviation alos deliver these services to other Airlines too, such as Finnair, Turkish Airlines, Sun Express, Tui Fly Nordic. Do you have the same problem with these ?

The issue is that Norwegian is hiring all of its crewmembers through OSM Aviation, which is at least half owned by Norwegian. Most other airlines either hire directly or contract through several agencies. The fact that all of these NAI crewmembers are technically employed by OSM, an owned subsidiary, adds a layer of opacity that makes many of us question NAI's motives.

Honestly I don't understand whats the big deal with working at Norwegian, your a scab because you can't commute and you have to pay your bills ? I read all those post saying if you work there your career is done! why because I didn't have anybody to walk in my application to the chief pilot in some fancy airline ? or just because I have been working all my life corporate ? In the end of the day I have to pay my bills and to me the SCAB is the pilot saying I'll trash your application if you been working for Norwegian. Thinking you're a bad pilot because you have been working there is BS ! How many crashes US3 had ? thinking you're the best pilot just because you got the job with a US3 is just BS ! in the end everyone is complaining just because is a foreign company came to the US doing business a lower price! its like blaming the Mexican taking the jobs no Americans want to do ! all the ALPA pilot are trying to shut down Norwegian here what about if the EU will shutdown all the US carrier to operate in EU how you will feel after ?

Firstsoloflight wrote:

Honestly I don't understand whats the big deal with working at Norwegian, your a scab because you can't commute and you have to pay your bills ? I read all those post saying if you work there your career is done! why because I didn't have anybody to walk in my application to the chief pilot in some fancy airline ? or just because I have been working all my life corporate ? In the end of the day I have to pay my bills and to me the SCAB is the pilot saying I'll trash your application if you been working for Norwegian. Thinking you're a bad pilot because you have been working there is BS ! How many crashes US3 had ? thinking you're the best pilot just because you got the job with a US3 is just BS ! in the end everyone is complaining just because is a foreign company came to the US doing business a lower price! its like blaming the Mexican taking the jobs no Americans want to do ! all the ALPA pilot are trying to shut down Norwegian here what about if the EU will shutdown all the US carrier to operate in EU how you will feel after ?

There hasn't been a fatality on a US 121 operated flight since 2009. It is the safest air system in the world.

In reading the last few pages of this thread I was hoping that some of our European members would outline what and how much it cost to become a pilot in Europe then get on to one of their major airlines, we have a good idea what it cost for US pilots.
What has been missed in some posters questions is not how high the US cost of living is but how high the cost is of becoming a pilot including racking up the necessary hours required to get hired at a major.

Firstsoloflight wrote:

Honestly I don't understand whats the big deal with working at Norwegian, your a scab because you can't commute and you have to pay your bills ? I read all those post saying if you work there your career is done! why because I didn't have anybody to walk in my application to the chief pilot in some fancy airline ? or just because I have been working all my life corporate ? In the end of the day I have to pay my bills and to me the SCAB is the pilot saying I'll trash your application if you been working for Norwegian. Thinking you're a bad pilot because you have been working there is BS ! How many crashes US3 had ? thinking you're the best pilot just because you got the job with a US3 is just BS ! in the end everyone is complaining just because is a foreign company came to the US doing business a lower price! its like blaming the Mexican taking the jobs no Americans want to do ! all the ALPA pilot are trying to shut down Norwegian here what about if the EU will shutdown all the US carrier to operate in EU how you will feel after ?

The margins in the EU are terrible, the market there sucks compared to the US because of airlines like norwegian. Look at how many EU pilot have lost their jobs in the las 12 months alone, Monarch, Norwegian, thousands more on the ropes elsewhere.

The US industry has the highest wages, best job security, best QOL, and the best safety record. These lower margin carriers should be learning, not spreading their cancer.

par13del wrote:

In reading the last few pages of this thread I was hoping that some of our European members would outline what and how much it cost to become a pilot in Europe then get on to one of their major airlines, we have a good idea what it cost for US pilots.
What has been missed in some posters questions is not how high the US cost of living is but how high the cost is of becoming a pilot including racking up the necessary hours required to get hired at a major.

It cost me around £45K to train under modular route between Florida/UK/Spain. FO for major A320 LCC on around £70K for 650 hours with flight pay, loss of licence, pension, sharescheme, free shares, near 4% pay rise this year, few grand performance bonus. Captains with some time with us get a 15% bunus ever year on top of their £100K+ package. This isn't a legacy neither. I imagine they are on even better terms.

Firstsoloflight wrote:

Honestly I don't understand whats the big deal with working at Norwegian, your a scab because you can't commute and you have to pay your bills ? I read all those post saying if you work there your career is done! why because I didn't have anybody to walk in my application to the chief pilot in some fancy airline ? or just because I have been working all my life corporate ? In the end of the day I have to pay my bills and to me the SCAB is the pilot saying I'll trash your application if you been working for Norwegian. Thinking you're a bad pilot because you have been working there is BS ! How many crashes US3 had ? thinking you're the best pilot just because you got the job with a US3 is just BS ! in the end everyone is complaining just because is a foreign company came to the US doing business a lower price! its like blaming the Mexican taking the jobs no Americans want to do ! all the ALPA pilot are trying to shut down Norwegian here what about if the EU will shutdown all the US carrier to operate in EU how you will feel after ?

Interesting first post.

Best of luck in your career. With that mindset, you'll need it.

RL757PVD wrote:

KCaviator wrote:

If you're an American and decide to sell your soul to Norwegian, you can kiss your chances of ever working for an American mainline carrier goodbye.

In a few years mainline carriers will be salivating at the thought of someone with experience in the type regardless of where they came from.

Not on an ALPA carrier.. a scab is a scab.

So much hatred for a company that is just putting downward pressure on prices, which is what every normal business does in a competitive market segment. I am curious, how these people feel about companies like Amazon, Lyft, etc.? Do they get in an Uber/Lyft car, or do they toe the line of "anyone who rides with Uber is putting their children's lives at risk!" Every profession is subject to downward pressure on their wages from competitors, that's the economic system we live in.

It would be bad for any carrier, if they didn't hire the best they could find. And I doubt any carrier is going to leave planes on the ground vs. hire someone who worked at Norwegian.

Varsity1 wrote:

Firstsoloflight wrote:

Honestly I don't understand whats the big deal with working at Norwegian, your a scab because you can't commute and you have to pay your bills ? I read all those post saying if you work there your career is done! why because I didn't have anybody to walk in my application to the chief pilot in some fancy airline ? or just because I have been working all my life corporate ? In the end of the day I have to pay my bills and to me the SCAB is the pilot saying I'll trash your application if you been working for Norwegian. Thinking you're a bad pilot because you have been working there is BS ! How many crashes US3 had ? thinking you're the best pilot just because you got the job with a US3 is just BS ! in the end everyone is complaining just because is a foreign company came to the US doing business a lower price! its like blaming the Mexican taking the jobs no Americans want to do ! all the ALPA pilot are trying to shut down Norwegian here what about if the EU will shutdown all the US carrier to operate in EU how you will feel after ?

The margins in the EU are terrible, the market there sucks compared to the US because of airlines like norwegian. Look at how many EU pilot have lost their jobs in the las 12 months alone, Monarch, Norwegian, thousands more on the ropes elsewhere.

The US industry has the highest wages, best job security, best QOL, and the best safety record. These lower margin carriers should be learning, not spreading their cancer.

Norwegian is constantly hiring both pilots and cabincrew. Norwegian has hired well over 200 pilots just in the last year. People from Ryanair, Monarch etc are moving to Norwegian. Norwegian contineus to hire cabincrew from Norway, Scandinavia, Europe and the USA and also pilots from all over Europe. No one has lost their job at Norwegian unless it has been for disiplinary action ( happens in most companies from time to time ). Others have left beacuse of retirement. Norwegian continues to hire pilots and cabin crew that are Norwegian nationals. No Norwegian has lost the job because the airline is hiring foreign cabin crew / pilots.