Norwegian is hiring for pilot jobbs, both on the B738 Max and the B787 in the USA

https://osmaviation.com/job-title/capta ... GQodDFcCwQ

If you're an American and decide to sell your soul to Norwegian, you can kiss your chances of ever working for an American mainline carrier goodbye.

KCaviator wrote:

If you're an American and decide to sell your soul to Norwegian, you can kiss your chances of ever working for an American mainline carrier goodbye.

I don't know if I'd go that far, but I'm not sure why anyone would decide to work for Norwegian in the first place given the terms don't appear particularly favorable compared to any non-regional job (and appear less favorable compared to a good number of regional jobs). No ability to commute, a low number of days off, and a training contract. Not exactly appealing in the current job market.

KCaviator wrote:

If you're an American and decide to sell your soul to Norwegian, you can kiss your chances of ever working for an American mainline carrier goodbye.

In a few years mainline carriers will be salivating at the thought of someone with experience in the type regardless of where they came from.

They have been hiring for half a year. Can't fill seats at RJ wages with training bond slavery.


The European labor whipsaw won't work in the U.S.

RL757PVD wrote:

KCaviator wrote:

If you're an American and decide to sell your soul to Norwegian, you can kiss your chances of ever working for an American mainline carrier goodbye.

In a few years mainline carriers will be salivating at the thought of someone with experience in the type regardless of where they came from.

US carries do not differentiate with type time anymore. The last to do so was Southwest. It's all TPIC.

Once a scab.. forever slaving in the middle east..

Hope they live where they are based. They will never sit in a jumpseat on a US based carrier.

RL757PVD wrote:

In a few years mainline carriers will be salivating at the thought of someone with experience in the type regardless of where they came from.

With the exception of maybe Southwest who requires a type rating to hire, airlines don't care what you're typed in as long as you check the other boxes. At any rate, the seniority list still exists, so a new hire off the street with Norwegian 787 time won't be jumping straight into a 787 at the Big 3 anytime soon.

But yeah, committing to Norwegian is akin to career suicide here in the US. Making slave wages to fly around a big shiny 787 isn't going to earn you any respect.

flight152 wrote:

Hope they live where they are based. They will never sit in a jumpseat on a US based carrier.

This too.

I did not mean type as in type rated, but more in the fact that anyone with PIC in a jet is going to be highly desirable in a few years regardless of background. The days of airlines being able to be overly selective will soon be gone. Dont believe me? go dig around the FAA website on airman certificate statistics.

Help me understand this. A mainline carrier would not let another captain, FA, or FO jumpseat on an open flight?

I read with interest the recent accident report of the MD80 in Africa. It mentioned the Capt was an American with a dodgy past, checkride failures to the point of not being employable in the US.

These are the people that will be joining Norwegian. Those with poor skills and personality flaws will be lining up to fly for Norwegian.

Nevermind the horrible terms and pay, or working for a parasite. The biggest problem is forcing American pilots through the painful process of getting an European pilot license. I'd need to get paid a large premium to take that hassle on.

rotating14 wrote:

Help me understand this. A mainline carrier would not let another captain, FA, or FO jumpseat on an open flight?

A foreign carrier pilot is not allowed in the cockpit of a US carrier. Even if Norwegian was "allowed" legally I don't think they would be welcome in the cockpit or empty cabin seats. I certainly would have no reason to let them ride myself. Others may have a different opinion but I believe I stand with the majority.

Sean-SAN- wrote:

Nevermind the horrible terms and pay, or working for a parasite. The biggest problem is forcing American pilots through the painful process of getting an European pilot license. I'd need to get paid a large premium to take that hassle on.

Do you know what the actual pay is for captains at Norwegian or do you just think you know ?

It is career suicide to work for these guys, regardless of a shortage.

RL757PVD wrote:

I did not mean type as in type rated, but more in the fact that anyone with PIC in a jet is going to be highly desirable in a few years regardless of background. The days of airlines being able to be overly selective will soon be gone. Dont believe me? go dig around the FAA website on airman certificate statistics.

Anyone with any 121 experience isn't going to have much of a hard time getting hired at a major from 2022-2027, just on the sheer number of retirements. As long as pilot hiring has some sort of input by the current pilots, you can bet your bottom dollar that any ALPA carrier will vote no for any candidate who flew for Norwegian, as they rightfully should.

Does ALPA decide who the US3 recruit?.

Mortyman wrote:

Sean-SAN- wrote:

Nevermind the horrible terms and pay, or working for a parasite. The biggest problem is forcing American pilots through the painful process of getting an European pilot license. I'd need to get paid a large premium to take that hassle on.

Do you know what the actual pay is for captains at Norwegian or do you just think you know ?

The pay has been posted here before. FO's start at 65 and Captains at 102. Why on gods green earth would I do that, saddle myself with some training slavery and become a scab?

ERJ Captain contracts (for expats) in China start at $230,000.

bennett123 wrote:

Does ALPA decide who the US3 recruit?.

The Chief pilots do (ALPA members). HR collects the resumes and forwards to CP. CP narrows the list down to preferred hire and hands back to HR.

mcdu wrote:

I read with interest the recent accident report of the MD80 in Africa. It mentioned the Capt was an American with a dodgy past, checkride failures to the point of not being employable in the US.

These are the people that will be joining Norwegian. Those with poor skills and personality flaws will be lining up to fly for Norwegian.

This is one of the things that I've been wondering about. That is, considering how much hiring the US majors need to do, who would go to work for Norwegian? Only those who can't get hired at a US carrier is the most likely answer.

If that's correct, then take that one step further. Knowing that they're "backs are against the wall," imagine how easy it will be for Norwegian to "push" pilots into practices that aren't safe.

A few thoughts and questions. So many of the replies were union la la land type stuff in my opinion. Fact of the matter is. So many of you pilots refuse to think thru the lense that the customers of your business use. Yet you are customers of other business. Norwegian is a disruptor and will likely bring transatlantic travel costs down for customers. You could argue they are price dumping right now, but that will have to stabilize. But I wonder if you union pilots would think the same way about your cable bill, subway tickets, etc etc.

-Does anybody have the payscales for Norwegian they can share with us? Particularly in annual numbers so we can relate.
-Work rules? What is so bad? I'm curious because I don't know. I may have some sympathy here but I may not. Some of my airline buddies love to brag how they game the system by "fake sick days" to create mega vacations. Compared to other occupations (including ones with people who travel for a living) I don't think airline pilots have it that bad.
-The comments about never working for a major...Frankly it's disgusting that somebody is sifting thru resumes basically operating as a tentacle for a union. I just can't see that as ethical behavior. When the pilot shortage kicks in we will see if Norwegian pilots really have that tough of a time moving to the us majors.

bennett123 wrote:

Does ALPA decide who the US3 recruit?.

Pilots do the hiring, so effectively, yes.

There's a large consolidated SCAB list out there that dates back decades so the industry has a pretty long memory for those that try to shortcut.

rotating14 wrote:

Help me understand this. A mainline carrier would not let another captain, FA, or FO jumpseat on an open flight?

It's a relatively small industry, there's the aforementioned SCAB list, and the captain has the ultimate say over who jumpseats on his aircraft. It's bad form to deny the JS to employees of your own company, but he has the right to deny it to anyone else for any reason he feels like without retribution from management.

What a load of rubbish has been posted in this thread. Anyone who thinks an airline wouldn't hire a pilot simply because he or she has previously worked for Norwegian has completely lost the plot. Get a grip.

sk736 wrote:

What a load of rubbish has been posted in this thread. Anyone who thinks an airline wouldn't hire a pilot simply because he or she has previously worked for Norwegian has completely lost the plot. Get a grip.

No, that's exactly what's going to happen in the US. These guys working for Norwegian are as close as you can get to being a SCAB without being one.

micstatic wrote:

A few thoughts and questions. So many of the replies were union la la land type stuff in my opinion. Fact of the matter is. So many of you pilots refuse to think thru the lense that the customers of your business use. Yet you are customers of other business. Norwegian is a disruptor and will likely bring transatlantic travel costs down for customers. You could argue they are price dumping right now, but that will have to stabilize. But I wonder if you union pilots would think the same way about your cable bill, subway tickets, etc etc.

-Does anybody have the payscales for Norwegian they can share with us? Particularly in annual numbers so we can relate.
-Work rules? What is so bad? I'm curious because I don't know. I may have some sympathy here but I may not. Some of my airline buddies love to brag how they game the system by "fake sick days" to create mega vacations. Compared to other occupations (including ones with people who travel for a living) I don't think airline pilots have it that bad.
-The comments about never working for a major...Frankly it's disgusting that somebody is sifting thru resumes basically operating as a tentacle for a union. I just can't see that as ethical behavior. When the pilot shortage kicks in we will see if Norwegian pilots really have that tough of a time moving to the us majors.

First you are voicing your opinion quite loudly with your "la la land" comment, then you are asking for specific answers to questions so you can formulate an opinion. Sorry, not buying your openness to the reality of the situation.

For those not inside the industry, your confusion as to how things actually work vs how you perceive them to work or how in your opinion should work don't add much to the discussion here. The only reason anyone would go here is because they CANNOT get hired elsewhere for a myriad of possible reasons. Is this the crew you want on your trans Atlantic flight? Not me.

sk736 wrote:

What a load of rubbish has been posted in this thread. Anyone who thinks an airline wouldn't hire a pilot simply because he or she has previously worked for Norwegian has completely lost the plot. Get a grip.

There is a lot of truth in this thread. With how strongly those high up the chain feel about Norwegian it is completely reasonable to believe this alone would disqualify you for employment at the big three.

sk736 wrote:

What a load of rubbish has been posted in this thread. Anyone who thinks an airline wouldn't hire a pilot simply because he or she has previously worked for Norwegian has completely lost the plot. Get a grip.

Pilots that crossed the EAL picket line in 1989 were never hired by the major carriers. They almost entirely wound up overseas or in third tier carriers. It's a reality that the decisions you make will affect your career long term. If the pilots willing to test they theory by going to Norwegian they are welcome to do so. However their career path may end there. If Norwegian is really so great why would they want to apply at another carrier? That speaks volumes about the Norwegian operation.

sk736 wrote:

What a load of rubbish has been posted in this thread. Anyone who thinks an airline wouldn't hire a pilot simply because he or she has previously worked for Norwegian has completely lost the plot. Get a grip.

I couldn't agree more. Besides, Norwegian is just as bound to the US laws out of their US crew bases as the American airlines so they got no advantage at all. Therefor those who call working for Norwegian slave labour have completely lost their minds. Of course Norwegian is an LCC so you can't expect a top salary, but today no airline in the US offers much more. It's just the old grey pilots that have already been in service for many years that they can't get rid of that got top wages and here you got to admit that Norwegian doesn't have such pilots. For younger pilots there's not much difference.

It's true that the US airlines mostly hate Norwegian, but I don't see that as a problem. I've heard of one pilot that has flown for Ryanair before and is now flying for KLM. Everybody in Europe knows how much the legacy airlines like KLM hate Ryanair, but still that wasn't a problem for them when they hired him. However, except for the number of hours he's not much better off at KLM. Of course KLM pays more per hour, but you get to work less hours so in the end it doesn't make much difference.

mcdu wrote:

I read with interest the recent accident report of the MD80 in Africa. It mentioned the Capt was an American with a dodgy past, checkride failures to the point of not being employable in the US.

These are the people that will be joining Norwegian. Those with poor skills and personality flaws will be lining up to fly for Norwegian.

Don't compare the use to Africa buddy.

PatrickZ80 wrote:

sk736 wrote:

What a load of rubbish has been posted in this thread. Anyone who thinks an airline wouldn't hire a pilot simply because he or she has previously worked for Norwegian has completely lost the plot. Get a grip.

I couldn't agree more. Besides, Norwegian is just as bound to the US laws out of their US crew bases as the American airlines so they got no advantage at all. Therefor those who call working for Norwegian slave labour have completely lost their minds.

Major US airlines don't require a pay for type rating training bond scheme... Norwegian does. Norwegian doesn't allow for commuting, and US based 121 does...

DiamondFlyer wrote:

PatrickZ80 wrote:

sk736 wrote:

What a load of rubbish has been posted in this thread. Anyone who thinks an airline wouldn't hire a pilot simply because he or she has previously worked for Norwegian has completely lost the plot. Get a grip.

I couldn't agree more. Besides, Norwegian is just as bound to the US laws out of their US crew bases as the American airlines so they got no advantage at all. Therefor those who call working for Norwegian slave labour have completely lost their minds.

Major US airlines don't require a pay for type rating training bond scheme... Norwegian does. Norwegian doesn't allow for commuting, and US based 121 does...

You say Major U.S carriers but what about NK,F9 or G4? Seems that no has said yet that they are better then Norwegian . Maybe that shows something......

micstatic wrote:

I just can't see that as ethical behavior. When the pilot shortage kicks in we will see if Norwegian pilots really have that tough of a time moving to the us majors.

Why does everyone assume that they will want to go work for the majors? We've seen time and time again that LCC's are the future of air travel. If I had to guess I'd guess that a few years down the line the majors will be a lot more like Norwegian and not the other way around.

Sounds very like the union closed shops we used to have over here in the 1970's.

sk736 wrote:

What a load of rubbish has been posted in this thread. Anyone who thinks an airline wouldn't hire a pilot simply because he or she has previously worked for Norwegian has completely lost the plot. Get a grip.

You have no clue what you're talking about. There are already US airlines out there that aren't looked highly upon when on a resume. Norwegian will join them.

It is interesting that the only strong unions are police, firemen, and pilots. Most making 6 figure incomes. And voting conservative. Go figure!

The comments of some Europeans and non-pilots on this and other threads display a mix of ignorance and magical thinking that is not particularly useful and only serves to muddy the waters of how things actually work. I don't mean to be rude, but if you aren't familiar with the US pilot market, US airline contracts, and the history of US airline labor relations, then stating the way you'd like things to be as if it were reality or declaring that way things work in the EU is how they work in the US serves no one and nothing but your own ego. I appreciate that some of rhetoric from the deny NAI camp has been a bit hysterical, but countering it with fairy tales doesn't help you cause.

PatrickZ80 wrote:

I couldn't agree more.

And you couldn't be more wrong

PatrickZ80 wrote:

Of course Norwegian is an LCC so you can't expect a top salary, but today no airline in the US offers much more. It's just the old grey pilots that have already been in service for many years that they can't get rid of that got top wages and here you got to admit that Norwegian doesn't have such pilots. For younger pilots there's not much difference.

A new hire FO at Delta will make more than a 787 CA at Norwegian, and the pay just goes up from there.

PatrickZ80 wrote:

It's true that the US airlines mostly hate Norwegian, but I don't see that as a problem. I've heard of one pilot that has flown for Ryanair before and is now flying for KLM. Everybody in Europe knows how much the legacy airlines like KLM hate Ryanair, but still that wasn't a problem for them when they hired him. However, except for the number of hours he's not much better off at KLM. Of course KLM pays more per hour, but you get to work less hours so in the end it doesn't make much difference.

The US3 have always hired from their competitors, just as KLM hires from theirs. The US3 hire from Allegiant, Spirit, and the rest and it is accepted that one must work their way up the ladder, but as MCDU mentioned, there have historically been some lines you do not cross. It is hard to predict how ex-Norwegian pilots will be seen by their peers in the future, but it is not risk worth taking in this hiring environment.

sk736 wrote:

What a load of rubbish has been posted in this thread. Anyone who thinks an airline wouldn't hire a pilot simply because he or she has previously worked for Norwegian has completely lost the plot. Get a grip.

You are way off my friend. As an ALPA pilot, I can attest to how much the union hates the ME3 and Norwegian. You can be 100% certain that even if a Norwegian pilot passes the HR portion of an interview, the second his application goes in front of the pilot review board it will be promptly turned into toilet paper. Norwegian is a plague on our profession, and should never have been granted a certificate. Their aircraft won't be registered in the US, so they can't ride on our jumpseat, but rest assured if they could and one came looking for a ride, he would be left at the gate.

airtran737 wrote:

sk736 wrote:

What a load of rubbish has been posted in this thread. Anyone who thinks an airline wouldn't hire a pilot simply because he or she has previously worked for Norwegian has completely lost the plot. Get a grip.

You are way off my friend. As an ALPA pilot, I can attest to how much the union hates the ME3 and Norwegian. .

I'm pretty sure all of the US3 have hired Emirates guys. I appreciate that the Norwegian situation is different, just saying that might not be the best example.

doug_or wrote:

airtran737 wrote:

sk736 wrote:

What a load of rubbish has been posted in this thread. Anyone who thinks an airline wouldn't hire a pilot simply because he or she has previously worked for Norwegian has completely lost the plot. Get a grip.

You are way off my friend. As an ALPA pilot, I can attest to how much the union hates the ME3 and Norwegian. .

I'm pretty sure all of the US3 have hired Emirates guys. I appreciate that the Norwegian situation is different, just saying that might not be the best example.

That is why I said that they won't hire the Norwegian guy, the ME3 guys get hired all the time. Norwegian is a completely different animal when it comes to the hatred of the US carriers.

US3 pay 3-4x what NAI is offering.

The very idea of a 'training bond' at a major has people running for the hills. These job openings with "OSM AVIATION" aka garbage front company have been around for half a year without being filled.

Airline pilots don't care if the general public doesn't have sympathy for them. They don't have sympathy for you. These jobs will be filled by the 36th street mafia in miami, very very shady pilots for a ripoff of a company. How appropriate.

micstatic wrote:

A few thoughts and questions. So many of the replies were union la la land type stuff in my opinion. Fact of the matter is. So many of you pilots refuse to think thru the lense that the customers of your business use. Yet you are customers of other business. Norwegian is a disruptor and will likely bring transatlantic travel costs down for customers. You could argue they are price dumping right now, but that will have to stabilize. But I wonder if you union pilots would think the same way about your cable bill, subway tickets, etc etc.

-Does anybody have the payscales for Norwegian they can share with us? Particularly in annual numbers so we can relate.
-Work rules? What is so bad? I'm curious because I don't know. I may have some sympathy here but I may not. Some of my airline buddies love to brag how they game the system by "fake sick days" to create mega vacations. Compared to other occupations (including ones with people who travel for a living) I don't think airline pilots have it that bad.
-The comments about never working for a major...Frankly it's disgusting that somebody is sifting thru resumes basically operating as a tentacle for a union. I just can't see that as ethical behavior. When the pilot shortage kicks in we will see if Norwegian pilots really have that tough of a time moving to the us majors.

These pay scales used to be posted on job advertisements through Norwegian's staffing subcontractor, OSM Aviation, but are no longer listed. I don't know if they've changed or they're just sort of hiding them:

787:
$5,500 per month for FOs ($66k per year)
$7,500 per month for relief captains ($90k per year)
$10,000 per month for captains ($120k per year)

737 Max:
$4,700 per month for FOs ($56.4k per year)
$8,500 per month for Captains ($102k per year)

Pay rates on both aircraft are significantly lower than pay rates on similar aircraft flown by US airlines (with the possible exception being first year FO pay at Spirit, Frontier, Sun Country, and UPS. Second year pay at all of these carriers is much higher than Norwegian's 737 Max rates).
There is also no 401(k) option whereas the US Legacies and Southwest all have a 13-16% defined contribution.

I don't think anybody knows yet about the work rules, but the guaranteed 10 days off is fewer than any other airline in the USA (There may be a few regionals that still only guarantee 10 days off). It is also not customary in the US for a pilot to have to apply to a staffing agency (in this case, OSM aviation, a wholly-owned Norwegian subsidiary).

Regarding your last point, the Human Resources departments run hiring at every US major airline. Some pilots sit in on interviews and review boards, but HR still leads the way. At most carriers a Chief Pilot cannot even guarantee somebody an interview.

lesfalls wrote:

You say Major U.S carriers but what about NK,F9 or G4? Seems that no has said yet that they are better then Norwegian . Maybe that shows something......

With the exception of first year FO pay Spirit, Frontier, and Allegiant all pay more than Norwegian is offering to fly the 737 Max and also guarantee more days off.

N353SK wrote:

lesfalls wrote:

You say Major U.S carriers but what about NK,F9 or G4? Seems that no has said yet that they are better then Norwegian . Maybe that shows something......

With the exception of first year FO pay Spirit, Frontier, and Allegiant all pay more than Norwegian is offering to fly the 737 Max and also guarantee more days off.

Exactly. Pay at all those carriers significantly increases at year two not to mention they all give very good quality of life to their employees through good work rules. "OSM" aviation or whatever they're called doesn't offer any of that. Any self respecting pilot would never fly a 737 or 787 for those embarrassing pay rates.

N353SK wrote:

lesfalls wrote:

You say Major U.S carriers but what about NK,F9 or G4? Seems that no has said yet that they are better then Norwegian . Maybe that shows something......

With the exception of first year FO pay Spirit, Frontier, and Allegiant all pay more than Norwegian is offering to fly the 737 Max and also guarantee more days off.

Some regionals pay their first year FO's what Norwegian is offering to fly the 737. That says a lot about how scummy of a company they are trying to be. Cut corners with staffing, where else will they be cutting corners.

DiamondFlyer wrote:

sk736 wrote:

What a load of rubbish has been posted in this thread. Anyone who thinks an airline wouldn't hire a pilot simply because he or she has previously worked for Norwegian has completely lost the plot. Get a grip.

No, that's exactly what's going to happen in the US. These guys working for Norwegian are as close as you can get to being a SCAB without being one.

I wish I could believe you, and I agree with what you say, except we all know how that goes. Look at Go Jet and the TSA Alter-Ego event. Everyone was convinced that if you went to Go Jet, you were done, that was the end of your career. No ALPA carrier would hire you and in many respects you were considered a scab. Today, no one mentions or even thinks about it and I know of many Go jet guys who have gotten hired on at the majors. While initially you may not see people going from Norwegian to the majors, in 5-10 years the majors will need anyone and everyone just to fill seats, so I have a feeling Norwegian guys will eventually make it else where.

I do have a feeling Norwegian will be attracting the lower echelon of the pilot group, the ones with training issues, failures and ones with big shiny jet syndrome who just want to fly a 787, regardless of pay and benefits.

airtran737 wrote:

sk736 wrote:

What a load of rubbish has been posted in this thread. Anyone who thinks an airline wouldn't hire a pilot simply because he or she has previously worked for Norwegian has completely lost the plot. Get a grip.

You are way off my friend. As an ALPA pilot, I can attest to how much the union hates the ME3 and Norwegian. You can be 100% certain that even if a Norwegian pilot passes the HR portion of an interview, the second his application goes in front of the pilot review board it will be promptly turned into toilet paper. Norwegian is a plague on our profession, and should never have been granted a certificate. Their aircraft won't be registered in the US, so they can't ride on our jumpseat, but rest assured if they could and one came looking for a ride, he would be left at the gate.

These are the sort quotes an attorney will love in court. ALPA is potentially in line for some major fines.

frmrCapCadet wrote:

airtran737 wrote:

sk736 wrote:

What a load of rubbish has been posted in this thread. Anyone who thinks an airline wouldn't hire a pilot simply because he or she has previously worked for Norwegian has completely lost the plot. Get a grip.

You are way off my friend. As an ALPA pilot, I can attest to how much the union hates the ME3 and Norwegian. You can be 100% certain that even if a Norwegian pilot passes the HR portion of an interview, the second his application goes in front of the pilot review board it will be promptly turned into toilet paper. Norwegian is a plague on our profession, and should never have been granted a certificate. Their aircraft won't be registered in the US, so they can't ride on our jumpseat, but rest assured if they could and one came looking for a ride, he would be left at the gate.

These are the sort quotes an attorney will love in court. ALPA is potentially in line for some major fines.

Please enlighten us based on your vast legal experience why a statement made by a semi anonymous person not speaking on behalf of the Union is so damning to the union? What is the legal precedent you are basing your opinion on?
The legal advise here is just as bad as the armchair CEO advise that's dished out by 16 yr old "enthusiasts".

rotating14 wrote:

Help me understand this. A mainline carrier would not let another captain, FA, or FO jumpseat on an open flight?

First of all Airlines have jumpseat agreements. At the end of the day, I'm the Captain and it is my decision

frmrCapCadet wrote:

airtran737 wrote:

sk736 wrote:

What a load of rubbish has been posted in this thread. Anyone who thinks an airline wouldn't hire a pilot simply because he or she has previously worked for Norwegian has completely lost the plot. Get a grip.

These are the sort quotes an attorney will love in court. ALPA is potentially in line for some major fines.

Lucky for me I am just a line guy and don't speak for the union. No profession takes kindly scab labor coming in and destroying the profession. Norwegian is a cancer and should be stopped.