ZeeZoo
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"British Airways 'turning into Ryanair' as first class passengers are the latest to lose perks"

Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:24 am

Apologies if this has been posted before but...what exactly is going on at BA? All I see and hear lately is bad press.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news/ ... m-of-cuts/
 
AWACSooner
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Re: "British Airways 'turning into Ryanair' as first class passengers are the latest to lose perks"

Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:11 am

They're about the only trans-Atlantic legacy I'd select AFTER a US carrier when given the choice of flight options. Shame too...my first time flying across the pond with them, they were great. Second time? Last April...and the budget cuts were glaringly obvious.
 
KTPAFlyer
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Re: "British Airways 'turning into Ryanair' as first class passengers are the latest to lose perks"

Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:25 am

I think part of the problem that many legacy airlines fail to understand is that people pay more to fly them becuase they are legacy; if they wanted to buy a cheaper ticket, they would buy from a LCC. BA is making the classic mistake of eliminating any differentiation between itself and Ryanair, thus eliminating any ability to justify higher fares. As this gets worse, the complaints will grow, and BA will realize that they are not a LCC airline unless their fares match it, and if they want to keep making high profits, they'll have to have the legacy product that flyers have come to expect from them or pay the price- literally. To make money, BA has to avoid direct competition with Ryanair, not on routes but on product and price, something they evidently are clueless about.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: "British Airways 'turning into Ryanair' as first class passengers are the latest to lose perks"

Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:56 am

"OMG, not the flowers! That's it, I'm going from 5-digit paid F fares to flying a LoCo!"

~said no one, likely ever.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
sandyb123
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Re: "British Airways 'turning into Ryanair' as first class passengers are the latest to lose perks"

Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:59 am

A friend on mine just flew his family on BA F on the LHR-JNB and said it was terrible. Knackered 747, service was lacking, lost bags and the IFE was on the blink.

When you are paying top dollar (whatever class) on an airline that claims to be premium you expect it to be better!

Frankly on domestic flights in the Uk and near Europe you're better flying EasyJet these days. Cheaper, more flights and a consistent product across the board.

BA trade on their 'glamorous' history and the LHR effect but for 99% of customers they are price led, then product. But charging more for less won't work for long and is an own-goal in my opinion.

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SlashingAx
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Re: "British Airways 'turning into Ryanair' as first class passengers are the latest to lose perks"

Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:07 am

LAX772LR wrote:
"OMG, not the flowers! That's it, I'm going from 5-digit paid F fares to flying a LoCo!"

~said no one, likely ever.



If it was only the flowers, then I don't think anyone would care. But if you reduce the quality of your flagship product so drastically, then yes it makes a difference. Don't think F flyers don't notice this.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: "British Airways 'turning into Ryanair' as first class passengers are the latest to lose perks"

Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:13 am

SlashingAx wrote:
Don't think F flyers don't notice this.

Sure, but what's their recourse? Not the ridiculous notion that's being suggested here, hence the point of such commentary.

Int'l F is going the way of the Dodo for most routes. That should be painfully apparent to anyone paying attention.
It's a boutique product that will find itself sustained in fewer and fewer venues, by fewer carriers.

Cuts/devaluation (and for most, even elimination) are inevitable.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
scotron11
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Re: "British Airways 'turning into Ryanair' as first class passengers are the latest to lose perks"

Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:24 am

Got to look at their CEO, Alex Cruz. LCC is his forte (He was head of Vueling) and he is applying the same strategy to BA. Of course head of IAG is Willie Walsh who previously ran Aer Lingus as an LCC too. Both were a big success. IAG is extremely profitable and BA made £1.5BN in profit for IAG last year.

Remains to be seen if their strategy for BA will be the same.
 
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seahawk
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Re: "British Airways 'turning into Ryanair' as first class passengers are the latest to lose perks"

Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:27 am

BA F is roughly Qatar J today.
 
CanadaFair
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Re: "British Airways 'turning into Ryanair' as first class passengers are the latest to lose perks"

Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:27 am

They could remove F from many aircraft and routes and offer it on a small scale but keep it high standard.
 
TC957
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Re: "British Airways 'turning into Ryanair' as first class passengers are the latest to lose perks"

Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:39 am

I find it sad that airlines like BA don't use the LCC revolution to see this as a great opportunity to differentiate themselves by simply being a much better all-round full service airline. All they are doing is feeding the LCC's because apart from being more expensive to fly with, they aren't any different now. OK, they offer connecting flights whereas most LCC's don't.
With hotels, the Hiltons and Sheratons etc aren't all racing to become Travelodges. Cruise ships are forever getting more innovative in what they offer the paying guests. Cars are continuously becoming more well equipped.
Where will it all end.
 
LHRFlyer
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Re: "British Airways 'turning into Ryanair' as first class passengers are the latest to lose perks"

Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:46 am

It's not all cuts.

A big investment in Club World catering and service is coming shortly and Club Europe is being added to UK domestic flights next month.

With BA, the irritation is not so much the cuts themselves, but the constant cycle of investment and cuts.

They have added/taken away pretzels with the first bar service and replaced the cuplet of water with a bottle of water on the WT/WT+ meal tray and back again many many times.

The second meal service on long-haul is constantly changing.

Given the amount of suppliers they deal with worldwide the amount of management time consumed by constantly changing the service must be extraordinary.
 
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JannEejit
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Re: "British Airways 'turning into Ryanair' as first class passengers are the latest to lose perks"

Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:31 am

The backlash was bound to happen, charging the same for more or indeed less was never going to be popular, especially on the intra UK 'Shuttle' routes where BA have seen off all competition in legacy terms and can effectively charge what they like into LHR. British Airways ought to (and especially as part of a wider group now) be able to negiotiate reasonably good supplier bulk discounts on the 'Johnnie Walker and pretzels' hell even on the Drambuie. For many, and myself included, the appeal of sipping on that "free gratis" whisky n' coke whilst travelling home after a long business trip to London was certainly part of the appeal of booking or being corporate booked onto BA and exuded a certain level of service if not class itself, yes even in coach.

Take that away and what do you have...? Yes, just another 1 hour or so flight amongst the other 1 hour or so flights available at EasyJet or Ryanair. OK, they still have the Heathrow appeal, but how long can that last in an increasingly congested operation ? If I were Ryanair or EasyJet, I'd start offering a complementary drink & snack on their Luton/Stansted/Gatwick UK internal routes, and make the most of advertising the fact. If nothing else, just for the niggle ! ;-)
 
Jomar777
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Re: "British Airways 'turning into Ryanair' as first class passengers are the latest to lose perks"

Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:29 am

The main issue with BA is that it wants to offer a LCC like service without offering the corresponding LCC price. As it was said several times on this thread alone, people fly legacy carriers (myself included on this one) because of the service they get even though they cost more.
As mentioned already on this thread, it seems that the whole service industry is aiming to acquire more customers by offering more for their money (several hotels and car hire companies advertise this) whereas BA seems to think it can offer less for more and expect that the brand will take the flak and still attract customers.
Even the likes of Norwegian, which is truly the 1st Long Haul LCC seem to understand the concept better than BA. OK, you pay extra for basic everything but you feel more like flying on a "taylormade" deal than a LCC one where what you add, you pay but get that particular paid service done properly and well.
 
jeffrey1970
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Re: "British Airways 'turning into Ryanair' as first class passengers are the latest to lose perks"

Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:30 am

LAX772LR wrote:
"OMG, not the flowers! That's it, I'm going from 5-digit paid F fares to flying a LoCo!"

~said no one, likely ever.


Those poor passengers having to go without the flowers. lol.
God bless through Jesus, Jeff
 
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aerorobnz
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Re: "British Airways 'turning into Ryanair' as first class passengers are the latest to lose perks"

Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:44 am

I would suggest BA shouldn't offer F at all anymore if they are going to do it on the 'cheap', just make the chop to 3 cls and be done with it.
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
UAL777UK
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Re: "British Airways 'turning into Ryanair' as first class passengers are the latest to lose perks"

Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:48 am

I would not give a diddly about the flowers being cut and those that do really need to get a grip. If they are pulling amenities that really do affect the travel experience, i.e. food is poor, sad amenity kit, pyjamas and slippers etc then so be it but as LAX772LR has pointed out, F is going the way of the Dodo. If BA want to have a product that stands out then they need to heavily invest and ensure that its clearly much much different to the J experience. if its not, then throw in the towel and follow the trend that's out there.
 
TC957
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Re: "British Airways 'turning into Ryanair' as first class passengers are the latest to lose perks"

Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:51 am

There was a time when BA were setting trends, not meekly following them and caving in.
 
LupineChemist
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Re: "British Airways 'turning into Ryanair' as first class passengers are the latest to lose perks"

Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:53 am

I tend to agree that F should be cut almost entirely maybe except for a few routes (JFK, LAX, HKG) and definitely do it right (and charge appropriately) then.

I would say they definitely need a good J product for that strategy to work and while the current Club World layout was revolutionary, it's well past its prime now. Supposedly there will be a new one with the arrival of the 350s. It could be a good opportunity to retrofit and change cabin layouts all around.
 
oldannyboy
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Re: "British Airways 'turning into Ryanair' as first class passengers are the latest to lose perks"

Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:45 am

It's only fair to bitterly criticize BA for shi#%ing on their amazing brand like this.
Cutting service levels to a LCC on short hauls whilst keeping prices reasonable might work for some (especially if they really want/need LHR), but long-haul is an entirely different beast. Who wants to pay extra for having the privilege to fly on a tatty, old 777 (not to mention the 747s) with lackluster onboard service and indifferent crews...
 
AEROFAN
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Re: "British Airways 'turning into Ryanair' as first class passengers are the latest to lose perks"

Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:52 am

LAX772LR wrote:
"OMG, not the flowers! That's it, I'm going from 5-digit paid F fares to flying a LoCo!"

~said no one, likely ever.


It is exactly this attitude that speaks to the what is wrong with so many companies and the arrogance, I find displayed here, by some of you.
But that's OK. Let a company destroy its reputation and see how easy and inexpensive it becomes to get it back.
 
Rookie87
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Re: "British Airways 'turning into Ryanair' as first class passengers are the latest to lose perks"

Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:16 pm

ZeeZoo wrote:
Apologies if this has been posted before but...what exactly is going on at BA? All I see and hear lately is bad press.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news/ ... m-of-cuts/


From the article, dramatization. No more flowers in a toilet and people lose their minds?
You can find anybody who's had a horrible flight on any airline including Singapore so the couple's experience although valid, insignificant in the grand scheme of things.
Every airline is having to make cuts or adjust. And I agree with someone's earlier post that it must be insane for suppliers to keep up and meet with what seems like constant changes.
 
ZeeZoo
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Re: "British Airways 'turning into Ryanair' as first class passengers are the latest to lose perks"

Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:20 pm

Rookie87 wrote:
ZeeZoo wrote:
Apologies if this has been posted before but...what exactly is going on at BA? All I see and hear lately is bad press.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news/ ... m-of-cuts/


From the article, dramatization. No more flowers in a toilet and people lose their minds?
You can find anybody who's had a horrible flight on any airline including Singapore so the couple's experience although valid, insignificant in the grand scheme of things.
Every airline is having to make cuts or adjust. And I agree with someone's earlier post that it must be insane for suppliers to keep up and meet with what seems like constant changes.


A lot of people are missing the point here. This isn't just one incident, this is about the gradual decline in BA's services.
 
tonystan
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Re: "British Airways 'turning into Ryanair' as first class passengers are the latest to lose perks"

Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:35 pm

Sadly BA has been slowly cutting away at the service for years and years now, ever since 911 actually. And it's just reached the point where it's blindly obvious. Club World has now become so poor that even management have realised it requires significant investment (£400m) to win back lost customers and bring it up to within grasp of the competition but alas it may not be enough.

I fear the golden days of First are well and truly gone with fewer and fewer aircraft featuring it and when it is available it will be a much smaller cabin such as the 787-9 with only 8 seats.
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
KLDC10
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Re: "British Airways 'turning into Ryanair' as first class passengers are the latest to lose perks"

Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:36 pm

British Airways is disappointing across the board. The removal of complimentary snacks and drinks on short haul flights (even water), means that there is nothing to distinguish them from low-cost carriers in economy, while the extra charge to select a seat, even in business class, is just plain cheek. If I am to pay a premium for business class travel, I do not then expect to be asked to give more money for the privilege of choosing whereabouts in the business cabin I sit.

As for this particular article - perhaps flowers aren't all that much on their own, but this latest move should be viewed in the context of a wider decline in service standards. To LAX772LR: No, high-yielding passengers are not about to make the jump from British Airways business/first to a low cost airline, but where might they make the jump?

KLM: Huge route network in the United Kingdom; excellent service, complimentary food and drink even in economy. Friendly staff, new planes.
Air France: Offers World-Class First and Business products to the discerning traveler.
Emirates/Qatar/Etihad: For longer flights, each of these airlines has a good reputation.
Lufthansa: Flies to plenty of UK destinations; excellent First class product, solid business class offering. Complimentary food and drink in shorthaul economy.

Frankly, after all the years of making fun of US Carriers, the discerning flyer might try Delta instead of British Airways for a transatlantic crossing. Superb business class product, complimentary water bottles and amenity kits in economy etc.

So no, high-yielding passengers will not suddenly migrate to, say, Ryanair, but they have plenty of other options to choose from.
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33lspotter
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Re: "British Airways 'turning into Ryanair' as first class passengers are the latest to lose perks"

Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:41 pm

ZeeZoo wrote:
A lot of people are missing the point here. This isn't just one incident, this is about the gradual decline in BA's services.


This.
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longhauler
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Re: "British Airways 'turning into Ryanair' as first class passengers are the latest to lose perks"

Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:56 pm

In my opinion, there are many points here, not just the removal of flowers from F lavs.

If BA are reducing Y services to the level of Ryanair, then so be it. Time and time again, the buying public has shown that what is painted on the side of the aircraft is irrelevant compared to the fare paid. The legacy airlines that figure this out quickly, usually succeed. To pretend that someone looking for a cheap flight to southern France (for example) will pay more for BA over Ryanair, is fooling themselves.

However, F is a different story and has nothing to do with Ryanair, et al. In fact, changing F makes BA start to compete with itself! As F services are reduced, then sooner or later the passenger starts to see that J is good enough, and F is not worth the increased fare. Clearly, that is the way the world is going as F cabins are being removed. There are very few markets that can garner a true F passenger paying a true F fare.

But, in reality, as stated many times before, it is the same three cabins, we just call it something different. F, J and Y of 20 years ago, are very similar to J, PY and Y of today. Hell, as I am looking at a seat map of a Trans-Canada Air Lines L1049G, with four cabins Deluxe, First, Tourist and Economy ... I see this trend of improving, renaming, rejigging has been going on a long time.
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Jerry123
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Re: "British Airways 'turning into Ryanair' as first class passengers are the latest to lose perks"

Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:01 pm

As someone who flies long haul to the US a couple of times a year BA out of Heathrow never really attracts me. As an economy passenger I find there prices aren't much different to KLM and I always choose KLM/Delta as I find the service for both airlines is pretty good in economy.
 
33lspotter
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Re: "British Airways 'turning into Ryanair' as first class passengers are the latest to lose perks"

Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:18 pm

As an American who has flown U.S. airlines domestically and BA internationally, my positive experiences with BA could well be because I've flown them only on long-haul flights. Not only was the food good, but I was always pleased with the in-flight service from crew members, something that I cannot say has been the same with my experiences with American carriers.

Up until last year I would say that BA had a markedly better product in short-haul Y, at least in terms of in-flight meals. After all, BA served meals on its LHR-EDI flights, something that – aside from AA and its reintroduction of meals on transcons – American carriers haven't done for years, and certainly not on flights as short in duration as LHR-EDI.

BA's elimination of meals on flights like LHR-EDI made me think 'well, they're certainly looking to cut costs, but I don't think that they'll go much beyond that.' How things change, as evidenced by the more recent development of charging for everything in short-haul Y. That is a major negative step, and I'm sad to say that I don't think there is much difference anymore between BA and the legacy American carriers.
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frmrCapCadet
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Re: "British Airways 'turning into Ryanair' as first class passengers are the latest to lose perks"

Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:45 pm

What struck me the first time I flew WN is that they delivered 'steerage' class in a first class sort of way. No matter what you paid you were treated as a valued customer. US legacies had superior Y service in the old days, but slowly moved to treating Y passengers as the enemy, a necessary evil in order to eke out a profit. And even domestic first started being treated the same way. BA seems to be going down that road. Like getting seafood poisoning at an oyster bar, it may not exactly be that bar's fault, you are not likely to go back for a long time.
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DfwRevolution
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Re: "British Airways 'turning into Ryanair' as first class passengers are the latest to lose perks"

Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:51 pm

seahawk wrote:
BA F is roughly Qatar J today.


Most J products are just F-branded-as-J products.
 
32andBelow
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Re: "British Airways 'turning into Ryanair' as first class passengers are the latest to lose perks"

Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:03 pm

I have about 0 sympathy for people who aren't comfortable in first class. Seriously get over yourself.
 
ckfred
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Re: "British Airways 'turning into Ryanair' as first class passengers are the latest to lose perks"

Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:07 pm

I flew BA in premium Y back in 2015 on ORD-LHR. I was surprised that I had to pay for a seat assignment, when I booked in February for a July departure. I forgot when tier in BA's FF program got you free seat assignment, but AA AAdvantage Gold was not high enough to get a free seat assignment.

At the time, AA passengers could reserve a seat for free on an AA flight, assuming that the seat wasn't MCE or some other seat that was somehow deemed premium.
 
Armodeen
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Re: "British Airways 'turning into Ryanair' as first class passengers are the latest to lose perks"

Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:31 pm

LHRFlyer wrote:
It's not all cuts.

Club Europe is being added to UK domestic flights next month.


I don't want to get into BA bashing, but just want to point out that BA is having to introduce CE on domestic flights because of the service cuts in ET! To avoid justified rage when someone on a full F ticket with a domestic connection gets asked for cash for a cup of tea.
 
rta
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Re: "British Airways 'turning into Ryanair' as first class passengers are the latest to lose perks"

Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:36 pm

I still like flying BA but I feel like they're losing the edge that I would've willingly paid extra for.
 
MikeMidd2001
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Re: "British Airways 'turning into Ryanair' as first class passengers are the latest to lose perks"

Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:38 pm

Long-time lurker, first time poster. Trust British Airways to be the thing that finally pushed me off the cliff...sorry this is lengthy.

I'm a London BAEC Silver who flies a mix of European short-haul in Europe, mid-haul to places like North Africa and long-haul, in a mix of economy, prem economy and business. I get the "silly people and their flowers" point - but that missing the actual point entirely.

It's the sum total of cutbacks, reductions, removals, etc., that amounts to the embarrassing degradation of BA, which will then have a business impact. Things like Club Europe, supposed to be business class, now with same seat pitch as economy. Or the removal of the second meal on long-haul flights, replaced with a small candy bar. Or no seat selection HBO fares, even with BAEC status.

As someone said, BA isn't competing against Ryanair to get people to the Middle East or States or Asia. But based on my last several transatlantics, BA is actually behind (some) U.S. airlines. As a BAEC Silver in economy to New York on American recently, I got two meals, a snack (ice cream), ability to select a Main Cabin Extra seat, good IFE. As a BAEC Silver in economy to Washington on BA, I got a meal and a tiny candy bar, alright IFE (not as good movie selection), and no access to more legroom. Oh yes, and the BA flight attendants referred to the basket with candy bars as the "walk of shame". Next time, American gets my money. And for the flights just booked to Italy and Spain for holiday, the difference was even worse for BA - way more expensive, before adding on extras. I'll be on Ryanair, gritting my teeth but having saving a couple hundred quid.

BA depends upon a certain type of consumer who feels they value from the prestige, quality and comfort of BA - including a lot of "British" identity. Devalue the product and you've taken away the latter two, and when that does enough reputational harm, then you lose the first one.
 
KaiTak747
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Re: "British Airways 'turning into Ryanair' as first class passengers are the latest to lose perks"

Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:46 pm

32andBelow wrote:
I have about 0 sympathy for people who aren't comfortable in first class. Seriously get over yourself.


You're completely missing the point.

If you spend thousands of pounds for an F or J ticket, you expect value for money.

Not that I can afford to fly F or J, but if I could, BA would probably be my last choice.

Just about every other longhaul airline flying into LHR offers better value for money in premium cabins.

I know several wealthy people that avoid BA, even choosing one stop options.

Of course, BA's J and F is probably very profitable considering how dense it is, and corporate contracts fill a good chunk of their premium cabins.
 
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PA110
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Re: "British Airways 'turning into Ryanair' as first class passengers are the latest to lose perks"

Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:49 pm

As someone who has flown BA longhaul in both F and J over the years, quite honestly, I've never noticed the flowers. But I have in fact noticed that service is indifferent and unremarkable at best. BA has not really made an effort to differentiate its product in years. Shame really.
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Mir
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Re: "British Airways 'turning into Ryanair' as first class passengers are the latest to lose perks"

Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:50 pm

32andBelow wrote:
I have about 0 sympathy for people who aren't comfortable in first class. Seriously get over yourself.


When people pay the premium that they do for first class, they are absolutely entitled to expect a certain level of comfort. It's not like they paid Y fares but got upgraded. And the airline certainly needs to have some sympathy for them, because they need those customers to come back.
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APYu
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Re: "British Airways 'turning into Ryanair' as first class passengers are the latest to lose perks"

Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:55 pm

KaiTak747 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
I have about 0 sympathy for people who aren't comfortable in first class. Seriously get over yourself.


You're completely missing the point.

If you spend thousands of pounds for an F or J ticket, you expect value for money.

Not that I can afford to fly F or J, but if I could, BA would probably be my last choice.

Just about every other longhaul airline flying into LHR offers better value for money in premium cabins.

I know several wealthy people that avoid BA, even choosing one stop options.

Of course, BA's J and F is probably very profitable considering how dense it is, and corporate contracts fill a good chunk of their premium cabins.


BAs F isn't very profitable - hence the continued move towards 3 class aircraft.

If you take out those on Avios Redemptions and Retired Staff on Concessions, those left that are paying are often on Corporate Contracts where the fares are often reduced significantly from what we would pay.
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GolfBravoRomeo
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Re: "British Airways 'turning into Ryanair' as first class passengers are the latest to lose perks"

Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:27 pm

Mir wrote:
When people pay the premium that they do for first class, they are absolutely entitled to expect a certain level of comfort. It's not like they paid Y fares but got upgraded. And the airline certainly needs to have some sympathy for them, because they need those customers to come back.


Anyone have an idea of the ratio of paid F to upgrades? I don't fly BA so have no sense of that.
 
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vhtje
Posts: 546
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 12:40 pm

Re: "British Airways 'turning into Ryanair' as first class passengers are the latest to lose perks"

Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:30 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
"OMG, not the flowers! That's it, I'm going from 5-digit paid F fares to flying a LoCo!"

~said no one, likely ever.


You do not get it. The problem isn't the flowers in the lav (or the lack of them) - and this cut was done in late 2016, anyway, so is not news - it is the continuing, never-ending cuts to soft product that have seriously degraded the level of service in BA. As a BA TATL frequent flyer, mostly in Club but sometimes in First, I can assure you these cuts - sorry, service enhancements - are noticeable.

In the past few years, BA has:

- introduced seat selection fees - even for Business Class if not an elite
- introduced fares where even elites need to pay to check a bag (no US airlines would dare do this)
- reduced the Bistro offerings onboard
- removed the tasting menu from First
- removed the amuse bouche from First
- cut the quality of the wines in Club and First
- reduced the Club kitchen
- removed second meal on outbound TATL flights in World Traveller Plus and World Traveller (some crisps replaced it)
- removed cheese from WTP meals
- reduced WTP amenity kit
- took the pretzels/nuts away/added them back/took them away again in World Traveller Plus/World Traveller (I forget where they are with this one now)
- removed bottled water from/brought it back / took it away again in World Traveller Plus/World Traveller (ditto - I forget where they are with this one)
- made the comforter and pyjamas in First on-request only
- reduced seat pitch in ClubEurope to just 30"
- is reducing seat pitch in EuroTraveller to just 29"

There are more I can probably dig up...
I only turn left when boarding aircraft. Well, mostly. All right, sometimes. OH OKAY - rarely.
 
subramak1
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 10:21 pm

Re: "British Airways 'turning into Ryanair' as first class passengers are the latest to lose perks"

Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:45 pm

LupineChemist wrote:
I tend to agree that F should be cut almost entirely maybe except for a few routes (JFK, LAX, HKG) and definitely do it right (and charge appropriately) then.

I would say they definitely need a good J product for that strategy to work and while the current Club World layout was revolutionary, it's well past its prime now. Supposedly there will be a new one with the arrival of the 350s. It could be a good opportunity to retrofit and change cabin layouts all around.


Actually there are more routes that deserve F and will have paying passengers. I have heard from BA flight crew that BOM, DEL flights first class is fully sold out. I guess that would be true for SIN, PEK, PVG , HND/NRT etc.

Given London's location as financial hub, F is very relevant for BA. Not sure what would happen after Brexit though

Subu
 
sfotraveler
Posts: 58
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 10:45 am

Re: "British Airways 'turning into Ryanair' as first class passengers are the latest to lose perks"

Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:16 pm

The article seems to be much ado about nothing. I have flown First many times and any diminution in service is barely noticeable. I agree with the company's assertion that there may be fewer choices on the menu but they have focused on improved quality and that has been my experience. On west-bound transatlantic flights there used to be just an afternoon tea service offered before landing and now there is a full light meal. The new cabin on the 787 is particularly nice and even has mood lighting you can set to your own liking. Who cares if there is a flower in the toilet. Likewise it makes perfect sense to provide pajamas/slippers only to passengers that want them rather than just hand them out to everyone. I am still a fan.
 
User avatar
PatrickZ80
Posts: 785
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:33 am

Re: "British Airways 'turning into Ryanair' as first class passengers are the latest to lose perks"

Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:43 pm

MikeMidd2001 wrote:
As someone said, BA isn't competing against Ryanair to get people to the Middle East or States or Asia. But based on my last several transatlantics, BA is actually behind (some) U.S. airlines. As a BAEC Silver in economy to New York on American recently, I got two meals, a snack (ice cream), ability to select a Main Cabin Extra seat, good IFE. As a BAEC Silver in economy to Washington on BA, I got a meal and a tiny candy bar, alright IFE (not as good movie selection), and no access to more legroom. Oh yes, and the BA flight attendants referred to the basket with candy bars as the "walk of shame". Next time, American gets my money. And for the flights just booked to Italy and Spain for holiday, the difference was even worse for BA - way more expensive, before adding on extras. I'll be on Ryanair, gritting my teeth but having saving a couple hundred quid.


Indeed BA is not competing with Ryanair on long haul, but they are competing with Norwegian for example and BA no longer has the advantage of better service. This makes people walk away to Norwegian. Lately IAG has started Level out of Barcelona to compete with Norwegian, but maybe it's needed more in Gatwick. That way they can keep the low-fare passengers within IAG instead of seeing them walk away to Norwegian and make BA the quality airline it used to be again. BA has the image for it, they just need to make that image come true.
 
User avatar
aemoreira1981
Posts: 232
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: "British Airways 'turning into Ryanair' as first class passengers are the latest to lose perks"

Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:56 pm

Another vote for ending first class and instead concentrate on a business class like United's Polaris or Delta One instead. I would do do except on the A380s, 77Ws (talk same seat count as the 744s), and maybe 10 772s from Heathrow (primarily to destinations like JFK, LAX, MIA, HKG, and other major cities in the Orient). On the 789s, first class can be sold as business class.

As for Gatwick, I agree with going full LCC there and have just W and Y out of there on paid-off 777s (would W27Y323 be doable)? Norwegian is going to eat BA's lunch.
 
MOW
Posts: 131
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 5:41 am

Re: "British Airways 'turning into Ryanair' as first class passengers are the latest to lose perks"

Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:01 pm

BA packs 14 F-class seats in the 744s forepart. 388s, 772s and 77W also feature the same 14 seats in the front. The configuration alone makes BA's F-class far less exclusive compared to their European peers like LH or AF. AF, for example, has nice-looking, very private 4-seat La Premiere cabins on their 77Ws.
Being unable to fill their F-class cabins or maybe realising the inferiority of its product, BA is heavily discounting the First. They are always the cheapest option to fly from Europe. US East Coast is EUR 4500 round trip, LAX is EUR 5800. In public! These are almost business class fares, compared with the others.
Perhaps BA's F should be called Premium Business.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 3626
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: "British Airways 'turning into Ryanair' as first class passengers are the latest to lose perks"

Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:08 pm

vhtje wrote:
(some crisps replaced it)

I believe you get a Mini Mars bar.

Raid The Larder gone on short haul.
Charge for hot water on short haul.
 
Ryanair01
Posts: 121
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:27 pm

Re: "British Airways 'turning into Ryanair' as first class passengers are the latest to lose perks"

Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:29 pm

I can never understand BA's constant obsession with changing the product.

The problem is some airline managers mindset is that on long haul a flat bed is the key reason for passenger's flying F or J, because travelling a lot and then hitting the office is tiring, so they are selling a restful flight. I guess that is increasingly BA's view. It's certainly the view of many passenger side finance departments who specify company travel policy. I think a flat bed, not a recliner is the key differentiator BA see against the likes of Norwegian.

Long haul premium stopped being an "experience" decades ago, nothing new here. Having spent last year shuttling between London and Singapore plus Singapore and Australia my main complaint with Club World was lack of storage space, which some other airlines have begun to fix in business. Qatar has great lounges but is mostly hype otherwise with many crew unable to handle dine on demand with messing it up, EK 777's are the worst hard business class flying although A380 is OK, SQ not too fond of the cabin (wide seat but the seat in front feels close) and crew seemed really unhappy aboard every flight. I think BA fits in the pack - i.e. flawed.
 
sevenair
Posts: 1667
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2001 7:18 am

Re: "British Airways 'turning into Ryanair' as first class passengers are the latest to lose perks"

Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:31 pm

subramak1 wrote:
LupineChemist wrote:
I tend to agree that F should be cut almost entirely maybe except for a few routes (JFK, LAX, HKG) and definitely do it right (and charge appropriately) then.

I would say they definitely need a good J product for that strategy to work and while the current Club World layout was revolutionary, it's well past its prime now. Supposedly there will be a new one with the arrival of the 350s. It could be a good opportunity to retrofit and change cabin layouts all around.


Actually there are more routes that deserve F and will have paying passengers. I have heard from BA flight crew that BOM, DEL flights first class is fully sold out. I guess that would be true for SIN, PEK, PVG , HND/NRT etc.

Given London's location as financial hub, F is very relevant for BA. Not sure what would happen after Brexit though

Subu


What will happen after Brexit? Well, BA could remove first, go all economy, park half of the fleet, start losing hundreds of millions, lose passengers. But in reality it will most likely continue selling a very average product but making great sums of money. Making money is what airlines are for. They are not public services. They are not there to showcase ones country to the world.

Hardcore remainers like to make out the UK will be bust and will shut down to the outside world. Even if that were the case (and it won't be), BA is strategically very well placed to concentrate on hubbing like WOW and FI do in KEF using LON to connect. British haters aside, they could do very well being a TATL hub if LON stopped being such an important O&D location. Which it won't. But then again we have been promised recessing, depressions hyper inflation, war, cancer and that all companies are pulling out of the UK.

A bare bones product and densification programme for the cabin could see BA thrive in the post apocalyptic Brexit Britain.
Last edited by sevenair on Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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