Airliners.net

Will Southwest Airlines begin service out of DFW Airport in 2025? I know that Southwest would definitely continue to serve Dallas Love Field if it chooses to begin service out of DFW.

Here are the destinations that Southwest would probably serve out of DFW Airport if it chose to operate out of DFW Airport in addition to Dallas Love Field:

• Albuquerque
• Atlanta
• Austin
• Baltimore
• Charlotte
• Chicago-Midway
• Denver
• El Paso
• Ft. Lauderdale
• Houston-Hobby
• Kansas City
• Las Vegas
• Little Rock
• Los Angeles
• Lubbock
• Midland/Odessa
• Nashville
• New Orleans
• New York-LaGuardia
• Oakland
• Orlando
• Philadelphia
• Phoenix
• St. Louis
• San Antonio
• San Francisco
• San Diego
• Seattle
• Tampa
• Washington-Reagan National

If Southwest chooses to operate out of DFW, would it add international service out of DFW Airport, or would it only operate domestic routes out of DFW?

They don't have much to gain by splitting their operation and going head to head with AA.

Can you explain where you got 2025?

737max8 wrote:

Can you explain where you got 2025?

I got 2025 from the 5-party agreement executed between the City of Dallas, the City of Fort Worth, American Airlines, Southwest Airlines, and DFW International Airport Board, and 2025 is the year where Southwest can initiate service from other commercial airports in the DFW Metroplex without having to give up gates at Dallas Love Field.

Out of curiosity, which markets currently served out of DAL did you omit?

In my (always humble) opinion, the only circumstances that could cause WN to start DFW are:

1) Some provocative move by AA to WN (e.g., AA starting service at MDW to DFW, LGA, DCA, and LAX), which would result in WN doing exactly the same at DFW (replace DFW with ORD)

2) JetBlue, JetRed, JetOrange, or JetPink (that's for you 1337!) starting service from DFW, and is wildly successful in spite of WN's efforts to compete at DAL, and somehow builds up a successful 50 flight/day operation.

3) AA liquidation

Only (3) would lead to something of the scope you describe. (3) would have to result in WN abandoning DAL. No way you can run hubs in the same city (which is what you describe) anywhere else but NYC. And I'm not even sure you can run them there . . . all airports have artificial constraints.

Southwest will obviously be the first to seize an opportunity to invalidate the WARA before 2025 if pushed into a corner.

Why is the "in 2025" a part of your question, though? Is there a specific reason you've chosen that year?

jetero wrote:

Out of curiosity, which markets currently served out of DAL did you omit?

In my (always humble) opinion, the only circumstances that could cause WN to start DFW are:

1) Some provocative move by AA to WN (e.g., AA starting service at MDW to DFW, LGA, DCA, and LAX), which would result in WN doing exactly the same at DFW (replace DFW with ORD)

2) JetBlue, JetRed, JetOrange, or JetPink (that's for you 1337!) starting service from DFW, and is wildly successful in spite of WN's efforts to compete at DAL, and somehow builds up a successful 50 flight/day operation.

3) AA liquidation

Only (3) would lead to something of the scope you describe. (3) would have to result in WN abandoning DAL. No way you can run hubs in the same city (which is what you describe) anywhere else but NYC. And I'm not even sure you can run them there . . . all airports have artificial constraints.

I selected the markets that would likely be served out of DFW if Southwest chooses to serve based on the number of daily nonstops to each of the destinations currently served from Dallas Love Field and based on the BTS statistics for Southwest Airlines cities.

EA CO AS wrote:

Why is the "in 2025" a part of your question, though? Is there a specific reason you've chosen that year?

I chose 2025 since this is the year that Southwest can launch service from other commercial airports in the DFW Metroplex without having to give up gates at Dallas Love Field.

The only way I see WN adding DFW is if they plan to add international destinations from Dallas. If they want to go that route, then we'd probably see token service to BWI, MDW, MCO, LAX, OAK, LAS, PHX and/or their other bases, in addition to international. I certainly wouldn't expect all the destinations you listed in the first post, that's just ridiculous and not going to happen, but IF they want to do international from Dallas, then I could see token domestic service to feed some of these international flights.

EA CO AS wrote:

Why is the "in 2025" a part of your question, though? Is there a specific reason you've chosen that year?

Probably because 2025 is the first year WN can add DFW without losing DAL gates and if he didn't add it, we'd probably have a hundred people on this site saying Southwest cannot add service to DFW until 2025.

I don't think they should ever be aloud to serve DFW. If so every gate they get at DFW they should have to give one up at LUV

No I don't hate WN. I love there and admire them especially the Herb years. Its been fun watching them morph into a major airline.

jplatts wrote:

I selected the markets that would likely be served out of DFW if Southwest chooses to serve based on the number of daily nonstops to each of the destinations currently served from Dallas Love Field and based on the BTS statistics for Southwest Airlines cities.

More precision necessary--how would I re-create your list? BHM, CHS, MEM, MKE, OMA, PDX, SMF obvious omissions, I'm sure there are others. Why didn't these make the cut?

No, no, and no.

First, when WN does split-airport operations, it's from airports farther away from DFW than DAL, in congested metros from a road perspective (LAX/SNA/ONT/BUR/LGB) or are in a slot-restricted market (NYC). After WN merged with FL, you'll notice that SRQ went away because they didn't want to split ops with WN's massive TPA presence. Ditto for ditching MIA when FLL is huge for WN.

Second, the MAX 8. WN can easily grow traffic at DAL by upgauging to the 7M8 (737 MAX 8). With the IT upgrade to Altea, don't rule out the 7M9 in the WN fleet either.

Third, although WN can't fly internationally from DAL, they have long stated that HOU will be the primary focus for international flying from Texas. If a WN pax in the Metroplex needs to get to Mexico or Central America from DAL, they just have to route them via HOU. For the Caribbean, via FLL.

jetero wrote:

jplatts wrote:

I selected the markets that would likely be served out of DFW if Southwest chooses to serve based on the number of daily nonstops to each of the destinations currently served from Dallas Love Field and based on the BTS statistics for Southwest Airlines cities.

More precision necessary--how would I re-create your list? BHM, CHS, MEM, MKE, OMA, PDX, SMF obvious omissions, I'm sure there are others. Why didn't these make the cut?

MEM, MKE, OMA, PDX, and SMF might possibly get nonstops to DFW if Southwest chose to serve DFW Airport.

Southwest only operates 2 nonstops to BHM from DAL since the repeal of the Wright Amendment.

Southwest has discontinued DAL-CHS service.

jplatts wrote:

MEM, MKE, OMA, PDX, and SMF might possibly get nonstops to DFW if Southwest chose to serve DFW Airport.

Southwest only operates 2 nonstops to BHM from DAL since the repeal of the Wright Amendment.

Southwest has discontinued DAL-CHS service.

Very helpful, thanks. Good to know there's no method to the madness.

FWAERJ wrote:

WN's massive TPA presence..

Indeed, it's absolutely MASSIVE!

(By FWA standards. I hear Lincoln Financial has a big presence there.)

grbauc wrote:

I don't think they should ever be aloud to serve DFW. If so every gate they get at DFW they should have to give one up at LUV

No I don't hate WN. I love there and admire them especially the Herb years. Its been fun watching them morph into a major airline.

Then tell Delta to get their you know what's out of Dallas Love Field. Heck they had a hub for years over at DFW.

jetero wrote:

FWAERJ wrote:

WN's massive TPA presence..

Indeed, it's absolutely MASSIVE!

(By FWA standards. I hear Lincoln Financial has a big presence there.)

WN has over 36% of the TPA market. May not seem like much on a percentage basis, but even then WN has twice the share of #2 AA. And WN has Airside C almost all to itself save for 1 or 2 F9 gates. That counts as "massive" when you're talking about an airport the size of TPA (over 18 million boardings a year, barely missing the top 30 US airports) - and it's especially massive because TPA is a leisure airport that lacks a fortress hub.

Yes, I count WN's MDW ops as a fortress hub. And yes, I see WN starting ORD as more likely than WN starting DFW, even though there's not much of a chance of either.

FlyUSAir wrote:

grbauc wrote:

I don't think they should ever be aloud to serve DFW. If so every gate they get at DFW they should have to give one up at LUV

No I don't hate WN. I love there and admire them especially the Herb years. Its been fun watching them morph into a major airline.

Then tell Delta to get their you know what's out of Dallas Love Field. Heck they had a hub for years over at DFW.

I think DL should get a chance at DAL I just think with the long history of what happened that they should have to vacate a gate to leave LUV for DFW (SWA). I also believe they should allow some expansion there for other airlines AND not just LCC. Any new entrant.

I think Alliance or Meacham would be more likely than DFW. why go head to head with AA in a less convenient location?

jetero wrote:

Southwest will obviously be the first to seize an opportunity to invalidate the WARA before 2025 if pushed into a corner.

I do not see Southwest interested in spoiling the status quo. It pretty much has a monopoly over Love Field, which enables them to charge a premium. It has plenty of gates to have a big schedule. Any chance of a new arrangement and we may see Delta or Jet Blue asking for an expansion of gates at Love which they may get the majority, or worse for Southwest, all of them.

WN didn't go to DFW in the 70's it ain't going to DFW in the 2025 either.

Flyguy

wnflyguy wrote:

WN didn't go to DFW in the 70's it ain't going to DFW in the 2025 either.

Flyguy

The reason I asked the question of whether Southwest would begin service out of DFW Airport is because there are some individuals out there who think that Southwest will start to operate out of DFW in addition to Dallas Love Field.