jplatts
Topic Author
Posts: 634
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Will Southwest begin service out of DFW Airport in 2025?

Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:34 pm

Will Southwest Airlines begin service out of DFW Airport in 2025? I know that Southwest would definitely continue to serve Dallas Love Field if it chooses to begin service out of DFW.

Here are the destinations that Southwest would probably serve out of DFW Airport if it chose to operate out of DFW Airport in addition to Dallas Love Field:
  • Albuquerque
  • Atlanta
  • Austin
  • Baltimore
  • Charlotte
  • Chicago-Midway
  • Denver
  • El Paso
  • Ft. Lauderdale
  • Houston-Hobby
  • Kansas City
  • Las Vegas
  • Little Rock
  • Los Angeles
  • Lubbock
  • Midland/Odessa
  • Nashville
  • New Orleans
  • New York-LaGuardia
  • Oakland
  • Orlando
  • Philadelphia
  • Phoenix
  • St. Louis
  • San Antonio
  • San Francisco
  • San Diego
  • Seattle
  • Tampa
  • Washington-Reagan National

If Southwest chooses to operate out of DFW, would it add international service out of DFW Airport, or would it only operate domestic routes out of DFW?
 
rta
Posts: 1372
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:01 am

Re: Will Southwest begin service out of DFW Airport in 2025?

Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:44 pm

They don't have much to gain by splitting their operation and going head to head with AA.
 
737max8
Posts: 254
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:13 am

Re: Will Southwest begin service out of DFW Airport in 2025?

Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:47 pm

Can you explain where you got 2025?
The thoughts and opinions expressed in my comments do not represent that of any airline or affiliate.
Flown on: 717 733 734 735 736 737 738 739 744 744ER 752 753 762 763 772 773ER 788 A319/20/21 A332 A333 A343 A359 A388
 
jplatts
Topic Author
Posts: 634
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Will Southwest begin service out of DFW Airport in 2025?

Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:54 pm

737max8 wrote:
Can you explain where you got 2025?


I got 2025 from the 5-party agreement executed between the City of Dallas, the City of Fort Worth, American Airlines, Southwest Airlines, and DFW International Airport Board, and 2025 is the year where Southwest can initiate service from other commercial airports in the DFW Metroplex without having to give up gates at Dallas Love Field.
 
jetero
Posts: 1522
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Will Southwest begin service out of DFW Airport in 2025?

Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:56 pm

Out of curiosity, which markets currently served out of DAL did you omit?

In my (always humble) opinion, the only circumstances that could cause WN to start DFW are:

1) Some provocative move by AA to WN (e.g., AA starting service at MDW to DFW, LGA, DCA, and LAX), which would result in WN doing exactly the same at DFW (replace DFW with ORD)

2) JetBlue, JetRed, JetOrange, or JetPink (that's for you 1337!) starting service from DFW, and is wildly successful in spite of WN's efforts to compete at DAL, and somehow builds up a successful 50 flight/day operation.

3) AA liquidation

Only (3) would lead to something of the scope you describe. (3) would have to result in WN abandoning DAL. No way you can run hubs in the same city (which is what you describe) anywhere else but NYC. And I'm not even sure you can run them there . . . all airports have artificial constraints.

Southwest will obviously be the first to seize an opportunity to invalidate the WARA before 2025 if pushed into a corner.
Last edited by jetero on Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 14161
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

Re: Will Southwest begin service out of DFW Airport in 2025?

Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:57 pm

Why is the "in 2025" a part of your question, though? Is there a specific reason you've chosen that year?
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
jplatts
Topic Author
Posts: 634
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Will Southwest begin service out of DFW Airport in 2025?

Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:06 am

jetero wrote:
Out of curiosity, which markets currently served out of DAL did you omit?

In my (always humble) opinion, the only circumstances that could cause WN to start DFW are:

1) Some provocative move by AA to WN (e.g., AA starting service at MDW to DFW, LGA, DCA, and LAX), which would result in WN doing exactly the same at DFW (replace DFW with ORD)

2) JetBlue, JetRed, JetOrange, or JetPink (that's for you 1337!) starting service from DFW, and is wildly successful in spite of WN's efforts to compete at DAL, and somehow builds up a successful 50 flight/day operation.

3) AA liquidation

Only (3) would lead to something of the scope you describe. (3) would have to result in WN abandoning DAL. No way you can run hubs in the same city (which is what you describe) anywhere else but NYC. And I'm not even sure you can run them there . . . all airports have artificial constraints.


I selected the markets that would likely be served out of DFW if Southwest chooses to serve based on the number of daily nonstops to each of the destinations currently served from Dallas Love Field and based on the BTS statistics for Southwest Airlines cities.
 
jplatts
Topic Author
Posts: 634
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Will Southwest begin service out of DFW Airport in 2025?

Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:08 am

EA CO AS wrote:
Why is the "in 2025" a part of your question, though? Is there a specific reason you've chosen that year?


I chose 2025 since this is the year that Southwest can launch service from other commercial airports in the DFW Metroplex without having to give up gates at Dallas Love Field.
 
airliner371
Posts: 2283
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:53 pm

Re: Will Southwest begin service out of DFW Airport in 2025?

Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:09 am

The only way I see WN adding DFW is if they plan to add international destinations from Dallas. If they want to go that route, then we'd probably see token service to BWI, MDW, MCO, LAX, OAK, LAS, PHX and/or their other bases, in addition to international. I certainly wouldn't expect all the destinations you listed in the first post, that's just ridiculous and not going to happen, but IF they want to do international from Dallas, then I could see token domestic service to feed some of these international flights.

EA CO AS wrote:
Why is the "in 2025" a part of your question, though? Is there a specific reason you've chosen that year?

Probably because 2025 is the first year WN can add DFW without losing DAL gates and if he didn't add it, we'd probably have a hundred people on this site saying Southwest cannot add service to DFW until 2025.
Support Net Neutrality, Support airliners.net!
 
grbauc
Posts: 802
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:05 pm

Re: Will Southwest begin service out of DFW Airport in 2025?

Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:13 am

I don't think they should ever be aloud to serve DFW. If so every gate they get at DFW they should have to give one up at LUV

No I don't hate WN. I love there and admire them especially the Herb years. Its been fun watching them morph into a major airline.
 
jetero
Posts: 1522
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Will Southwest begin service out of DFW Airport in 2025?

Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:28 am

jplatts wrote:
I selected the markets that would likely be served out of DFW if Southwest chooses to serve based on the number of daily nonstops to each of the destinations currently served from Dallas Love Field and based on the BTS statistics for Southwest Airlines cities.


More precision necessary--how would I re-create your list? BHM, CHS, MEM, MKE, OMA, PDX, SMF obvious omissions, I'm sure there are others. Why didn't these make the cut?
 
FWAERJ
Posts: 2674
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:23 am

Re: Will Southwest begin service out of DFW Airport in 2025?

Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:36 am

No, no, and no.

First, when WN does split-airport operations, it's from airports farther away from DFW than DAL, in congested metros from a road perspective (LAX/SNA/ONT/BUR/LGB) or are in a slot-restricted market (NYC). After WN merged with FL, you'll notice that SRQ went away because they didn't want to split ops with WN's massive TPA presence. Ditto for ditching MIA when FLL is huge for WN.

Second, the MAX 8. WN can easily grow traffic at DAL by upgauging to the 7M8 (737 MAX 8). With the IT upgrade to Altea, don't rule out the 7M9 in the WN fleet either.

Third, although WN can't fly internationally from DAL, they have long stated that HOU will be the primary focus for international flying from Texas. If a WN pax in the Metroplex needs to get to Mexico or Central America from DAL, they just have to route them via HOU. For the Caribbean, via FLL.
Last edited by FWAERJ on Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
All opinions stated are strictly personal and not those of the FWACAA or my employers.
 
jplatts
Topic Author
Posts: 634
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Will Southwest begin service out of DFW Airport in 2025?

Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:36 am

jetero wrote:
jplatts wrote:
I selected the markets that would likely be served out of DFW if Southwest chooses to serve based on the number of daily nonstops to each of the destinations currently served from Dallas Love Field and based on the BTS statistics for Southwest Airlines cities.


More precision necessary--how would I re-create your list? BHM, CHS, MEM, MKE, OMA, PDX, SMF obvious omissions, I'm sure there are others. Why didn't these make the cut?


MEM, MKE, OMA, PDX, and SMF might possibly get nonstops to DFW if Southwest chose to serve DFW Airport.

Southwest only operates 2 nonstops to BHM from DAL since the repeal of the Wright Amendment.

Southwest has discontinued DAL-CHS service.
 
jetero
Posts: 1522
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Will Southwest begin service out of DFW Airport in 2025?

Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:45 am

jplatts wrote:
MEM, MKE, OMA, PDX, and SMF might possibly get nonstops to DFW if Southwest chose to serve DFW Airport.

Southwest only operates 2 nonstops to BHM from DAL since the repeal of the Wright Amendment.

Southwest has discontinued DAL-CHS service.


Very helpful, thanks. Good to know there's no method to the madness.
 
jetero
Posts: 1522
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Will Southwest begin service out of DFW Airport in 2025?

Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:52 am

FWAERJ wrote:
WN's massive TPA presence..


Indeed, it's absolutely MASSIVE!

(By FWA standards. I hear Lincoln Financial has a big presence there.)
 
FlyUSAir
Posts: 387
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:26 am

Re: Will Southwest begin service out of DFW Airport in 2025?

Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:37 am

grbauc wrote:
I don't think they should ever be aloud to serve DFW. If so every gate they get at DFW they should have to give one up at LUV

No I don't hate WN. I love there and admire them especially the Herb years. Its been fun watching them morph into a major airline.


Then tell Delta to get their you know what's out of Dallas Love Field. Heck they had a hub for years over at DFW.
A319/A320/A321/A333 712/732/733/734/735/737/738/752/753/762/763 C172 CR2/CR7/CR9 E145/E170/E175/E190
MD82/MD83/MD88/MD90 Q100/Q400
 
FWAERJ
Posts: 2674
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:23 am

Re: Will Southwest begin service out of DFW Airport in 2025?

Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:40 am

jetero wrote:
FWAERJ wrote:
WN's massive TPA presence..


Indeed, it's absolutely MASSIVE!

(By FWA standards. I hear Lincoln Financial has a big presence there.)


WN has over 36% of the TPA market. May not seem like much on a percentage basis, but even then WN has twice the share of #2 AA. And WN has Airside C almost all to itself save for 1 or 2 F9 gates. That counts as "massive" when you're talking about an airport the size of TPA (over 18 million boardings a year, barely missing the top 30 US airports) - and it's especially massive because TPA is a leisure airport that lacks a fortress hub.

Yes, I count WN's MDW ops as a fortress hub. And yes, I see WN starting ORD as more likely than WN starting DFW, even though there's not much of a chance of either.
All opinions stated are strictly personal and not those of the FWACAA or my employers.
 
grbauc
Posts: 802
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:05 pm

Re: Will Southwest begin service out of DFW Airport in 2025?

Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:10 am

FlyUSAir wrote:
grbauc wrote:
I don't think they should ever be aloud to serve DFW. If so every gate they get at DFW they should have to give one up at LUV

No I don't hate WN. I love there and admire them especially the Herb years. Its been fun watching them morph into a major airline.


Then tell Delta to get their you know what's out of Dallas Love Field. Heck they had a hub for years over at DFW.


I think DL should get a chance at DAL I just think with the long history of what happened that they should have to vacate a gate to leave LUV for DFW (SWA). I also believe they should allow some expansion there for other airlines AND not just LCC. Any new entrant.
 
DaufuskieGuy
Posts: 232
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:35 pm

Re: Will Southwest begin service out of DFW Airport in 2025?

Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:22 am

I think Alliance or Meacham would be more likely than DFW. why go head to head with AA in a less convenient location?
 
incitatus
Posts: 3007
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:49 am

Re: Will Southwest begin service out of DFW Airport in 2025?

Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:23 am

jetero wrote:

Southwest will obviously be the first to seize an opportunity to invalidate the WARA before 2025 if pushed into a corner.


I do not see Southwest interested in spoiling the status quo. It pretty much has a monopoly over Love Field, which enables them to charge a premium. It has plenty of gates to have a big schedule. Any chance of a new arrangement and we may see Delta or Jet Blue asking for an expansion of gates at Love which they may get the majority, or worse for Southwest, all of them.
Conservatives against Trump
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 1114
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Will Southwest begin service out of DFW Airport in 2025?

Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:27 am

WN didn't go to DFW in the 70's it ain't going to DFW in the 2025 either.

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
jplatts
Topic Author
Posts: 634
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Will Southwest begin service out of DFW Airport in 2025?

Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:36 am

wnflyguy wrote:
WN didn't go to DFW in the 70's it ain't going to DFW in the 2025 either.

Flyguy


The reason I asked the question of whether Southwest would begin service out of DFW Airport is because there are some individuals out there who think that Southwest will start to operate out of DFW in addition to Dallas Love Field.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos