jplatts
Topic Author
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Southwest expansion at Houston Hobby

Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:53 pm

Southwest actually has room to expand both domestically and internationally at Houston Hobby. There is currently no nonstop service from Houston Hobby to Sacramento, Minneapolis/St. Paul, Milwaukee, Detroit, Louisville, Cincinnati, Columbus, Cleveland, and Philadelphia. Will Southwest take advantage of the opportunity to add new nonstop routes out of Houston Hobby to these 9 markets?

Southwest has plans to expand internationally and to add service to new international destinations. What new international destinations will Southwest fly to next from Houston Hobby?
 
barney captain
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Re: Southwest expansion at Houston Hobby

Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:50 pm

My guess is PTY is on the short list.

I would love to see them extend 4/22 and 31L/13R another 500' on each end - there's certainly room for it.
The MAX seems like it will require some extra pavement to go the full distance.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Southwest expansion at Houston Hobby

Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:56 pm

HOU is a strong market for WN, no doubt about it. BUT...HOU is geographically out of the way for many domestic connections. Since WN has many "connecting centers" throughout the country, places not on a good connecting pattern for HOU will maybe see a flight or two at most a day. International is where it gets interesting. Since DAL is restricted from international nonstops HOU is the big gateway for them. As HOU expands internationally we may see a few morning flights from MSP and such to connect with a morning bank of WN flights ex-HOU. But I wouldn't expect too much.
OZARK, We're big on THAT!
 
phluser
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Re: Southwest expansion at Houston Hobby

Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:54 am

jplatts wrote:
Southwest actually has room to expand both domestically and internationally at Houston Hobby. There is currently no nonstop service from Houston Hobby to Sacramento, Minneapolis/St. Paul, Milwaukee, Detroit, Louisville, Cincinnati, Columbus, Cleveland, and Philadelphia. Will Southwest take advantage of the opportunity to add new nonstop routes out of Houston Hobby to these 9 markets?

Southwest has plans to expand internationally and to add service to new international destinations. What new international destinations will Southwest fly to next from Houston Hobby?


WN used to serve HOU-PHL and more recently used to serve HOU-EWR, the closest major airport for Northern and Central NJ. Interestingly in MKE, Southwest is the largest carrier there, but doesn't fly either MKE-BNA or MKE-HOU, even though it's to another major WN station in the same time zone, so not incredibly far. WN might struggle on some markets against UA (at IAH) or reluctant to compete again on HOU-PHL atleast. Atleast with DAL, it has some advantage with DAL being closer to downtown Dallas to make domestic routes work out of pax preference of DAL against the DFW carriers, and maybe the difference origin out of and demand to Dallas is also greater than Houston. WN seems to have greater confidence with DAL (against AA/DFW) than it does out of HOU (against UA/IAH).
 
orangeguy
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Re: Southwest expansion at Houston Hobby

Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:46 am

Perhaps my information is out of date, but I thought WN was pretty much tapped out in terms of aircraft availability due to the retirement of the 300s. It seems like they will need to build up a fleet of MAX before they can think seriously about many new routes or expansion plans.
 
n471wn
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Re: Southwest expansion at Houston Hobby

Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:50 am

orangeguy wrote:
Perhaps my information is out of date, but I thought WN was pretty much tapped out in terms of aircraft availability due to the retirement of the 300s. It seems like they will need to build up a fleet of MAX before they can think seriously about many new routes or expansion plans.


Yes you are correct as 78 300's now flying will be gone by Oct 1. 12 more used 700's are coming on board and some new 800's but there will still be a significant gap
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Southwest expansion at Houston Hobby

Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:53 am

A question mark at the end of that thread title would have been useful.
 
dc10lover
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Re: Southwest expansion at Houston Hobby

Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:57 am

Maybe WN should serve more California markets from Houston? Just a guess.
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737max8
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Re: Southwest expansion at Houston Hobby

Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:58 am

n471wn wrote:
orangeguy wrote:
Perhaps my information is out of date, but I thought WN was pretty much tapped out in terms of aircraft availability due to the retirement of the 300s. It seems like they will need to build up a fleet of MAX before they can think seriously about many new routes or expansion plans.


Yes you are correct as 78 300's now flying will be gone by Oct 1. 12 more used 700's are coming on board and some new 800's but there will still be a significant gap


Not really that big of a gap...

87 retirements but 67 additions to the fleet this year. It's crazy that WN will have 154 A/C transactions in 2017 ALONE. But those additions are almost all 175 seats, while retirements are 137 or 143 seats. The gap gets even smaller. And by next year the fleet is growing again.
The thoughts and opinions expressed in my comments do not represent that of any airline or affiliate.
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hiflyeras
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Re: Southwest expansion at Houston Hobby

Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:24 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
A question mark at the end of that thread title would have been useful.


Exactly. Dropping SEA and PDX out of HOU doesn't sound to me like an expansion.
 
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drerx7
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Re: Southwest expansion at Houston Hobby

Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:23 am

SEA is seasonal iirc...I don't recall if PDX is
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
bogota
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Re: Southwest expansion at Houston Hobby

Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:47 am

Southwest had expressed their interest in BOG sometime ago, so probably still in their radar.
 
bogota
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Re: Southwest expansion at Houston Hobby

Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:52 am

barney captain wrote:
My guess is PTY is on the short list.

I would love to see them extend 4/22 and 31L/13R another 500' on each end - there's certainly room for it.
The MAX seems like it will require some extra pavement to go the full distance.


PTY is a transit point more than anything, not sure what Southwest could do there.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Southwest expansion at Houston Hobby

Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:20 pm

20 aircraft net loss for an airline is a huge hit
 
toxtethogrady
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Re: Southwest expansion at Houston Hobby

Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:58 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
A question mark at the end of that thread title would have been useful.


I thought that was traditional for any new A.net thread... :stirthepot:
 
737max8
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Re: Southwest expansion at Houston Hobby

Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:08 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
20 aircraft net loss for an airline is a huge hit


It's far less than that when you look at seat totals, and you can make up for that by reducing the number of spare A/C, longer days, etc.

It's pretty obvious when the schedule after the classic retirement didn't really change. No cuts other than typical seasonal stuff.
The thoughts and opinions expressed in my comments do not represent that of any airline or affiliate.
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wnflyguy
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Re: Southwest expansion at Houston Hobby

Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:11 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
20 aircraft net loss for an airline is a huge hit

That's only until April 2018 then WN will rapidly increase to positive fleet growth opportunities for summer 2018.

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
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Rajahdhani
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Re: Southwest expansion at Houston Hobby

Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:30 pm

737max8 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
20 aircraft net loss for an airline is a huge hit


It's far less than that when you look at seat totals, and you can make up for that by reducing the number of spare A/C, longer days, etc.


Another, albeit slight bonus - I am sure that the 'new' aircraft are more reliable that the ones that they are replacing - if not more capable. I mean, losing a 733, at a lower seat count, and lower range - and replacing it with a 738 certainly does have advantages - especially when one is new, and the other - a workhorse (and I will not say that it is unsafe at all) that though well maintained, is older. I am, by no means a WN-fanboy, but this is good news for them. Can't wait to see the MAXs come on property - and see them really reap the rewards further. "Growing pains" aside, good on them for making the move, and now.

Backing to the topic, let's see how the Houston economy improves in the coming years. Perhaps, as most have voiced - a healthier O/D might be the issue at hand. It is no surprise given Houston's ties to the petro-chemical industry, but - things might be looking up, and soon.
 
jbpdx
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Re: Southwest expansion at Houston Hobby

Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:19 pm

drerx7 wrote:
SEA is seasonal iirc...I don't recall if PDX is



PDX-HOU has been year round not seasonal.
Next: AS PDX-MCO-PDX
 
jetero
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Re: Southwest expansion at Houston Hobby

Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:06 pm

Rajahdhani wrote:
Backing to the topic, let's see how the Houston economy improves in the coming years. Perhaps, as most have voiced - a healthier O/D might be the issue at hand. It is no surprise given Houston's ties to the petro-chemical industry, but - things might be looking up, and soon.


For 2016, HOU's O&D traffic is up 10% and IAH's is essentially flat.

http://www.fly2houston.com/newsroom/med ... tatistics/
 
kon
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Re: Southwest expansion at Houston Hobby

Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:21 am

jbpdx wrote:
drerx7 wrote:
SEA is seasonal iirc...I don't recall if PDX is



PDX-HOU has been year round not seasonal.


This fall, PDX-HOU seems to have gone away. Maybe a temporary pause due to fleet retirement, maybe a switch to seasonal?
 
guillelds
Posts: 41
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Re: Southwest expansion at Houston Hobby

Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:57 am

bogota wrote:
Southwest had expressed their interest in BOG sometime ago, so probably still in their radar.


I hope so.... UA and AV are killing us with their high fares
 
tbboko802
Posts: 108
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Re: Southwest expansion at Houston Hobby

Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:54 am

This fall, PDX-HOU seems to have gone away. Maybe a temporary pause due to fleet retirement, maybe a switch to seasonal?

PDX-HOU has all year for 1 year. Previous to that, it was seasonal for several years. Just speculation, but I would imagine it has been returned to seasonal.
Be Open to Change
 
jbpdx
Posts: 98
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Re: Southwest expansion at Houston Hobby

Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:48 pm

Upgauged app/DOT shows WN PDX-HOU with a 92% load factor for June 2016.
Next: AS PDX-MCO-PDX
 
BerenErchamion
Posts: 72
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Re: Southwest expansion at Houston Hobby

Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:53 pm

737max8 wrote:
But those additions are almost all 175 seats, while retirements are 137 or 143 seats. The gap gets even smaller. And by next year the fleet is growing again.


How will that actually help with fleet availability to serve more destinations, though?

A plane can only go to one destination at a time, no matter how many people it holds. Unless the thinking is that the higher capacity will allow them to reduce frequencies on some routes, I suppose.
Union YES!
 
jplatts
Topic Author
Posts: 66
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Re: Southwest expansion at Houston Hobby

Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:08 pm

BerenErchamion wrote:
737max8 wrote:
But those additions are almost all 175 seats, while retirements are 137 or 143 seats. The gap gets even smaller. And by next year the fleet is growing again.


How will that actually help with fleet availability to serve more destinations, though?

A plane can only go to one destination at a time, no matter how many people it holds. Unless the thinking is that the higher capacity will allow them to reduce frequencies on some routes, I suppose.


Southwest plans to receive 737 MAX 7 planes in 2019, and the 737 MAX 7 is slightly larger than the 737-300 and 737-700 but smaller than the 737-800 and 737 MAX 8. Southwest's 737 MAX 7 planes will seat 150 passengers, whereas Southwest's 737-300 and 737-700 planes seat 143 passengers.
 
jplatts
Topic Author
Posts: 66
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest expansion at Houston Hobby

Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:30 pm

phluser wrote:
jplatts wrote:
Southwest actually has room to expand both domestically and internationally at Houston Hobby. There is currently no nonstop service from Houston Hobby to Sacramento, Minneapolis/St. Paul, Milwaukee, Detroit, Louisville, Cincinnati, Columbus, Cleveland, and Philadelphia. Will Southwest take advantage of the opportunity to add new nonstop routes out of Houston Hobby to these 9 markets?

Southwest has plans to expand internationally and to add service to new international destinations. What new international destinations will Southwest fly to next from Houston Hobby?


WN used to serve HOU-PHL and more recently used to serve HOU-EWR, the closest major airport for Northern and Central NJ. Interestingly in MKE, Southwest is the largest carrier there, but doesn't fly either MKE-BNA or MKE-HOU, even though it's to another major WN station in the same time zone, so not incredibly far. WN might struggle on some markets against UA (at IAH) or reluctant to compete again on HOU-PHL atleast. Atleast with DAL, it has some advantage with DAL being closer to downtown Dallas to make domestic routes work out of pax preference of DAL against the DFW carriers, and maybe the difference origin out of and demand to Dallas is also greater than Houston. WN seems to have greater confidence with DAL (against AA/DFW) than it does out of HOU (against UA/IAH).


Southwest might be able to do well on the HOU-PHL nonstop route if Southwest revived nonstop service between HOU and PHL because US Airways pulled out of Star Alliance and ended its codeshare relationship with United with the American-US Airways merger, and also because some of the Houston-area customers prefer Southwest and/or United over American. In addition, Southwest now has international service out of Houston, and a HOU-PHL nonstop would allow Philadelphia-area customers access to Southwest's international destinations and vice versa.
 
jplatts
Topic Author
Posts: 66
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Southwest expansion at Houston Hobby

Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:40 pm

jplatts wrote:
Southwest actually has room to expand both domestically and internationally at Houston Hobby. There is currently no nonstop service from Houston Hobby to Sacramento, Minneapolis/St. Paul, Milwaukee, Detroit, Louisville, Cincinnati, Columbus, Cleveland, and Philadelphia. Will Southwest take advantage of the opportunity to add new nonstop routes out of Houston Hobby to these 9 markets?

Southwest has plans to expand internationally and to add service to new international destinations. What new international destinations will Southwest fly to next from Houston Hobby?


I always thought that Southwest will expand both domestically and internationally at Houston Hobby, and I think that Southwest will eventually add nonstop service to at least Sacramento, Minneapolis/St. Paul, Milwaukee, Cincinnati, and Columbus from Houston Hobby.

Even though Southwest has nonstops from Houston Hobby to Oakland, LAX, and Orange County, will Southwest add nonstops from Houston to San Francisco Int'l Airport, San Jose, Burbank, or Ontario, California?
 
BerenErchamion
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu May 28, 2015 12:44 am

Re: Southwest expansion at Houston Hobby

Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:41 pm

jplatts wrote:
BerenErchamion wrote:
737max8 wrote:
But those additions are almost all 175 seats, while retirements are 137 or 143 seats. The gap gets even smaller. And by next year the fleet is growing again.


How will that actually help with fleet availability to serve more destinations, though?

A plane can only go to one destination at a time, no matter how many people it holds. Unless the thinking is that the higher capacity will allow them to reduce frequencies on some routes, I suppose.


Southwest plans to receive 737 MAX 7 planes in 2019, and the 737 MAX 7 is slightly larger than the 737-300 and 737-700 but smaller than the 737-800 and 737 MAX 8. Southwest's 737 MAX 7 planes will seat 150 passengers, whereas Southwest's 737-300 and 737-700 planes seat 143 passengers.


That doesn't actually answer the question. Everyone knows that the capacity is higher; but the higher capacity doesn't magically allow it to fly two routes at once.

In order to actually fly new routes with a fleet utilized to full capacity (which is the premise under discussion), you have to either cut some existing routes or add new planes. Replacing a part of the current fleet with a smaller number of larger planes may give you the same or even more seats to sell, but it won't actually give you the spare fleet capacity to fly new routes without first cutting some existing ones.
Union YES!
 
airliner371
Posts: 2185
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Re: Southwest expansion at Houston Hobby

Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:39 am

jplatts wrote:
BerenErchamion wrote:
737max8 wrote:
But those additions are almost all 175 seats, while retirements are 137 or 143 seats. The gap gets even smaller. And by next year the fleet is growing again.


How will that actually help with fleet availability to serve more destinations, though?

A plane can only go to one destination at a time, no matter how many people it holds. Unless the thinking is that the higher capacity will allow them to reduce frequencies on some routes, I suppose.


Southwest plans to receive 737 MAX 7 planes in 2019, and the 737 MAX 7 is slightly larger than the 737-300 and 737-700 but smaller than the 737-800 and 737 MAX 8. Southwest's 737 MAX 7 planes will seat 150 passengers, whereas Southwest's 737-300 and 737-700 planes seat 143 passengers.

Your response has nothing to do with what the previous users were saying. Slow down with the posts... PLEASE.
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